SB 2.4.18 – The Glories of Devotional Service

Devotee: Hare Krishna, everyone.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Welcome to Sri Sri Radha-Londonisvara temple this evening. On this very nice evening, we have a very auspicious presence of His Holiness Giriraj Maharaja.

Devotees: Haribol! Haribol!

Devotee: I think most of you are familiar with Maharaja, but just for those who don’t, and for those who do, let’s just stimulate our appreciation by hearing a little about Maharaja.

He is one of ISKCON’s most senior members, he joined in 1969 in ISKCON Boston. My own spiritual master was holding the statue of Maharaja, and then, after some time there, Srila Prabhupada took him to India. So, he became one of the integral members of the ISKCON’s most challenging and fun period of the purchase and development of Hare Krishna Land in Juhu. And if anybody ever wonders about the austerities in his service, then you just have to read what was involved in getting Hare Krishna Land and the Juhu temple together, and then you find out what austerities are about.

So, Giriraj Maharaja is one of those that have done that probably for many, many years, and then, after Srila Prabhupada left, he became a sannyasi and GBC. At presently now, now he is focusing his time, and when his health permits, and in between traveling still, he writes his books. So, you can see a number of books there. His Watering the Seed book is a book about Prabhupada stories. Many Moons is about the departure of Vaishnavas. And the recent book called Life’s Final Exam is about the Vaishnava attitude on dying, and practical aspects of this most important test in life, the leaving of the body.

So, we are all very glad Maharaja is here. It’s been a few years since he has been to Soho Street, and I think he is just coming back from India. He came back from India and he is back to the States. So, let’s heartily express our appreciation for Maharaja’s presence by three loud Haribol!

Devotees: Haribol! Haribol! Haribol!

Devotee: His Holiness Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya 

So, we’ll read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Four, “The Process of Creation,” Text Eighteen.

TEXT 18

kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
ye ’nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

TRANSLATION

Kirāta, Hūṇa, Āndhra, Pulinda, Pulkaśa, Ābhīra, Śumbha, Yavana, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to the Lords being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Kirāta: A province of old Bhārata-varṣa mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. Generally the Kirātas are known as the aboriginal tribes of India.

Hūṇa: The area of East Germany and part of Russia is known as the province of the Hūṇas. Accordingly, sometimes a kind of hill tribe is known as the Hūṇas.

Āndhra: A province in southern India mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. It is still extant under the same name.

Pulinda: The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of Mahābhārata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bhārata, and th        e inhabitants were classified amongst the kṣatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas (just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens).

COMMENT

Can we come forward to make room for others? Please come forward.

PURPORT (continued)

Ābhīra: It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvatī in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea, and all the inhabitants of that province were known as the Ābhīras. They were under the domination of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, and according to the statements of Mārkaṇḍeya the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bhārata. Later on this proved to be true, as in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Ābhīras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Ābhīras were also formerly kṣatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. The kṣatriyas who were afraid of Paraśurāma and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Ābhīras, and the place they inhabited was known as Ābhīradeśa.

Śumbhas or Kaṅkas: The inhabitants of the Kaṅka province of old Bhārata, mentioned in the Mahābhārata.

Yavanas: Yavana was the name of one of the sons of Mahārāja Yayāti who was given the part of the world known as Turkey to rule. Therefore the Turks are Yavanas due to being descendants of Mahārāja Yavana. The Yavanas were therefore kṣatriyas, and later on, by giving up the brahminical culture, they became mleccha-yavanas. Descriptions of the Yavanas are in the Mahābhārata (Ādi-parva 85.34). It was also foretold that these Yavanas would conquer India, and it proved to be true.

Khasa: The inhabitants of the Khasadeśa are mentioned in the Mahābhārata (Droṇa-parva). Those who have a stunted growth of hair on the upper lip are generally called Khasas. As such, the Khasa are the Mongolians, the Chinese and others who are so designated.

The above-mentioned historical names are different nations of the world. Even those who are constantly engaged in sinful acts are all corrigible to the standard of perfect human beings if they take shelter of the devotees of the Lord. Jesus Christ and Muhammad, two powerful devotees of the Lord, have done tremendous service on behalf of the Lord on the surface of the globe. And from the version of Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī it appears that instead of running a godless civilization in the present context of the world situation, if the leadership of world affairs is entrusted to the devotees of the Lord, for which a worldwide organization under the name and style of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness has already been started, then by the grace of the Almighty Lord there can be a thorough change of heart in human beings all over the world because the devotees of the Lord are able authorities to effect such a change by purifying the dust-worn minds of the people in general. The politicians of the world may remain in their respective positions because the pure devotees of the Lord are not interested in political leadership or diplomatic implications. The devotees are interested only in seeing that the people in general are not misguided by political propaganda and in seeing that the valuable life of a human being is not spoiled in following a type of civilization which is ultimately doomed. If the politicians, therefore, would be guided by the good counsel of the devotees, then certainly there would be a great change in the world situation by the purifying propaganda of the devotees, as shown by Lord Caitanya. As Śukadeva Gosvāmī began his prayer by discussing the word yat-kīrtanam, so also Lord Caitanya recommended that simply by glorifying the Lord’s holy name, a tremendous change of heart can take place by which the complete misunderstanding between the human nations created by politicians can at once be extinguished. And after the extinction of the fire of misunderstanding, other profits will follow. The destination is to go back home, back to Godhead, as we have several times discussed in these pages.

COMMENT

So, the purport continues, but I will stop here to discuss what we have just read. The basic idea is that members of all sorts of communities, and even others who are addicted to sinful acts, can be purified to the highest standard of pure devotee by. . . what?

Devotees: By association of devotees.

Giriraj Swami: Raise your hand. Yes?

Devotee: Being in touch with the Supreme Lord.

Giriraj Swami: That is true. But what is the specific method mentioned in the verse?

Devotees: Taking shelter of the devotee.

Giriraj Swami: Taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord. But it is true that when one does take shelter of the devotees, the devotees will engage one in kirtan and the various processes of devotional service, beginning with kirtan.

So, pretty much, historically, the Vaishnavas who wrote commentaries on the scripture, wrote in relation to the individual practitioner.

Srila Prabhupada’s Sanskrit editor, Pradyumna dasa, who was very learned in Sanskrit language and also in Vedic literature, said that one thing that distinguished Srila Prabhupada was that he extended the principles of the scripture, which are generally read by people to apply in their own lives, but it was extended by Srila Prabhupada to a national, or actually, a global level.

So, we know from the Śikṣāṣṭakam prayers, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, by chanting the holy names of the Lord, the dirt accumulated within the heart becomes cleansed. But here Srila Prabhupada is saying that if the government of the world are guided by devotees. This verse is about how by taking shelter of devotees anyone can be purified. So Srila Prabhupada is saying, if the leaders of the world take guidance from devotees, then they can introduce saṅkīrtana on a large scale, and by kirtan, the consciousness of the people in general will be purified.

So, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaḿ, by chanting the holy names, the blazing fire of material existence is extinguished. So, Srila Prabhupada is saying, “If the world leaders are guided by devotees, then the blazing fire of material existence in the form of misunderstandings and conflicts between different nations and different groups will be extinguished, and then other benefits will follow.” So, Srila Prabhupada had a very broad mission, and he wanted us to cooperate with him. I’ll continue.

PURPORT (continued)

According to the cult of devotion, generally known as the Vaiṣṇava cult, there is no bar against anyone’s advancing in the matter of God realization. A Vaiṣṇava is powerful enough to turn into a Vaiṣṇava even the Kirāta, etc., as above mentioned. In the Bhagavad-gītā (9.32) it is said by the Lord that there is no bar to becoming a devotee of the Lord (even for those who are lowborn, or women, śūdras or vaiśyas), and by becoming a devotee everyone is eligible to return home, back to Godhead. The only qualification is that one take shelter of a pure devotee of the Lord who has thorough knowledge in the transcendental science of Kṛṣṇa (Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam).

COMMENT

“The only qualification is that one takes shelter of a pure devotee of the Lord.”

One time in Bombay, one of Srila Prabhupada’s most prominent disciples, Tamal Krishna Goswami, needed a hernia operation. And so, he went to what was the best hospital in Mumbai at the time, which was founded by a friend of ours, to have the operation performed. But Srila Prabhupada wanted to stop the operation because he didn’t trust the Indian doctors then, and he tried to phone the hospital but he could not get through. So, he decided to go personally to try to stop the operation. And for the first years in India, we didn’t have any motor vehicles of our own, but then, eventually, we got a jeep. It had a metal body, but then it had a canvas covering on it and sort of open sides.

So, Srila Prabhupada got in the jeep and drove down to the hospital, but when he got there, it was too late, the surgery had already been performed. Tamal Krishna Goswami was just being wheeled out of the operation theater or the recovery room, and he was just coming out of the effects of the anesthesia. He opened his eyes and he saw Srila Prabhupada, and he told Srila Prabhupada that he had just had a dream, and in the dream, Srila Prabhupada was giving a report to the previous acharyas about how his work was going on the planet earth.

Srila Prabhupada told the previous acharyas, “The people on earth now have no good qualities, they have no background in pious activities, they have no knowledge of spiritual culture, and pretty much, they have no interest in spiritual life at all. So, they have no qualifications, but they do have one good quality, and that is that they have faith in me, and whatever I tell them, they do. And because of that one good quality, they can be delivered.”

And then, Tamal Krishna Goswami looked to Srila Prabhupada to see if he would confirm or disconfirm the dream, and Srila Prabhupada nodded his head and agreed, “Yes, it is true.” So, such a powerful devotee is extraordinarily rare. In fact, no one in the history of the world did what Srila Prabhupada did, and no one else will, because Srila Prabhupada crossed the ocean and went to all these different places mentioned and accepted people from any background and engaged them in the process of devotional service.

Please try to come forward a little more so others can squeeze in. Yeah, there is space, there is space. Srila Prabhupada built a house the whole world can live in.

And not only did Srila Prabhupada inspire people from all over the world to take to devotional service, but he also had to contend with many enemies of the Krishna consciousness movement, many people who complained that Srila Prabhupada was accepting disciples from different castes and communities and engaging them as brahmans, as sannyasis. In fact, in Hyderabad, some of the caste brahmans complained to Srila Prabhupada that he was ruining the Hindu religion by accepting people who were not born as brahmans, as brahmans.

Once, when we were in Madras. . . ‘We’ means that Srila Prabhupada received an invitation to Madras but he didn’t go personally, so a small party of four of us went. And our host said that we are not brahmans. He said that we are Vaishnavas, and Vaishnavas are higher than brahmans, but we are not brahmans. For us to be brahmans, we have to take birth in our next lives in brahman families. So, one of the members of our small group was Achyutananda Swami, and Achyutananda Swami asked the host, “What is more powerful, sin or Krishna’s name?” And the gentleman had to admit, “Krishna’s name is more powerful.”

And then he said, “Why is someone born in a brahman family, why is someone born in another family? It is because of their past activities, past pious and sinful activities, but the holy name of Krishna is so powerful it destroys the reactions to all of one’s past activities. And therefore, the results of one’s past activities as manifested in the family of one’s birth, no longer holds.” And he had to accept that it was true.

And the same fact is corroborated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that even those born in families of dog eaters, if they chant the holy names of the Lord, they are immediately eligible to perform Vedic sacrifices. Ordinarily, even someone born in a brahman family has to undergo certain purificatory rituals to be eligible to perform Vedic sacrifices, but one who chants the holy name of the Lord is immediately eligible.

So, Srila Prabhupada was constantly contending with these types of opponents. When we first came to Bombay, there was a press conference, and in the press conference, in the coverage, it was reported that one of the devotees named Gopal, who’s actually in Vrindavan now, had worked as a construction worker before he came to Krishna consciousness. So, someone wrote a letter to the editor saying, “Someone who works in construction is considered a sudra. So, how can a sudra be a brahman?” And so, Srila Prabhupada had us right back, basically establishing the fact that anyone, no matter what his previous position was, can become a devotee and a Vaishnava and a brahman.

So, it’s actually because of Srila Prabhupada that all of us are here now. If it weren’t for him, we wouldn’t be here and we wouldn’t be worshiping the Deity and engaging in all of the different activities of devotional service.

But I will continue because there is more. So, we just read that anyone who’s conversant in the science of Krishna can accept as a disciple anyone from any part of the world.

PURPORT (continued)

Anyone from any part of the world who becomes well conversant in the science of Kṛṣṇa becomes a pure devotee and a spiritual master for the general mass of people and may reclaim them by purification of heart.

COMMENT

So, not only can a spiritual master reclaim anyone from any part of the world, but he can train anyone from any part of the world to become conversant in the science of Krishna, and that person can become a spiritual master who, in turn, can reclaim people from any part of the world. And so, the paramparā can continue in the same way.

PURPORT (continued)

Though a person be even the most sinful man, he can at once be purified by systematic contact with a pure Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava, therefore, can accept a bona fide disciple from any part of the world without any consideration of caste and creed and promote him by regulative principles to the status of a pure Vaiṣṇava, who is transcendental to brahminical culture.

COMMENT

“By regulative principles.” It’s not just that one cheaply gives initiation or cheaply gives the sacred thread, but one is elevated by following the regulated principles.

PURPORT (continued)

The system of caste, or varṇāśrama-dharma, is no longer regular even amongst the so-called followers of the system.

COMMENT

Once, I think it was 1977, Srila Prabhupada was in Juhu, and one of the political leaders of India, Jayaprakash Narayana, held a big meeting, in which he called upon all the brahmans to take off their sacred threads and place them in a bonfire to indicate that everyone was equal, that the brahmans were not going to exercise any artificial domination over the others. So, so many lakhs of brahmans came forward and took off their sacred threads and put it in the fire, and Srila Prabhupada said, “Good, they are admitting they are all sudras.” [laughter]

PURPORT (continued)

The system of caste, or varṇāśrama-dharma, is no longer regular even amongst the so-called followers of the system. Nor is it now possible to reestablish the institutional function in the present context of social, political and economic revolution. Without any reference to the particular custom of a country, one can be accepted to the Vaiṣṇava cult spiritually, and there is no hindrance in the transcendental process. So by the order of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

COMMENT

What is the order of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?

Devotees: Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, actually, I think there are two orders that are relevant here. One is. . . Can you say it loudly?

Devotee: āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa: yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa.

Giriraj Swami: Which means?

Devotee: Chant the holy name of Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s the conclusion of everything. āmāra ājñāya guru hañā means, “On My order, you become a guru.” āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa: yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa, “And repeat the message of Krishna.” And what was the other one?

Devotee: brahmāṇḍa bhramite. . .

Giriraj Swami: Okay, we will read what Srila Prabhupada says. This is the answer.

PURPORT (continued)

So by the order of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the cult of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the Bhagavad-gītā can be preached all over the world, reclaiming all persons willing to accept the transcendental cult. Such cultural propaganda by the devotees will certainly be accepted by all persons who are reasonable and inquisitive, without any particular bias for the custom of the country. A Vaiṣṇava never accepts another Vaiṣṇava on the basis of birthright, just as he never thinks of the Deity of the Lord in a temple as an idol.

COMMENT

So, this is an indirect reference to a verse from the Padma Purāṇa that says that anyone who considers the Deity to be made of stone, or a Vaishnava to belong to a particular caste or community, has a hellish mentality. In other words, it is forbidden. It is forbidden to think of the Deity as being made of stone or metal or wood, and it is forbidden to see a Vaishnava as belonging to a particular caste or community. One must see the Deity as Krishna, and one must see a Vaishnava as servant of Krishna, without any material consideration or calculation. And this is very important for all of us in our dealings with each other, to see each other as Krishna’s servants and not as belonging to any caste or community.

PURPORT (continued)

The Vaiṣṇava never accepts another Vaiṣṇava on the basis of birthright, just as he never thinks of the Deity of the Lord in a temple as an idol. And to remove all doubts in this connection, Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī has invoked the blessings of the Lord, who is all-powerful (prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ). The all-powerful Lord accepts the humble service of His devotee in devotional activities of the arcana, His form as the worshipable Deity in the temple, similarly the body of a pure Vaiṣṇava changes transcendentally at once when he gives himself up to the service of the Lord and is trained by a qualified Vaiṣṇava.

COMMENT

So, this is confirmed by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in His instructions to Srila Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Gosvami had contracted a disease, a skin disease, that was oozing follow liquid and consequently, he was avoiding Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu because Lord Chaitanya would embrace him, and all this liquid would come on the Lord’s body. And Srila Sanatana Gosvami was so distressed that he was prepared to give up his life. And Lord Chaitanya told him, “Dīkṣā kale. At the time of dīkṣā, when a devotee gives himself up to the service of the Lord in full surrender, the Lord accepts him to be on the same level.” In other words, He accepts him on the spiritual platform. So, this is stated here.

PURPORT (continued)

The body of a pure Vaiṣṇava changes transcendentally at once when he gives himself up to the service of the Lord and is trained by a qualified Vaiṣṇava. The injunction of Vaiṣṇava regulation in this connection runs as follows: arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ śrī-viṣṇor nāmni śabda-sāmānya-buddhiḥ, etc. “One should not consider the Deity of the Lord as worshiped in the temple to be an idol, nor should one consider the authorized spiritual master an ordinary man. Nor should one consider a pure Vaiṣṇava to belong to a particular caste, etc.” (Padma Purāṇa).

The conclusion is that the Lord, being all-powerful, can, under any and every circumstance, accept anyone from any part of the world, either personally or through His bona fide manifestation as the spiritual master. Lord Caitanya accepted many devotees from communities other than the varṇāśramites.

COMMENT

What’s an example of a devotee who Lord Chaitanya accepted from outside the community of varṇāśramites?

Devotees: Haridasa Thakura.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, nāmācārya Srila Haridasa Thakura.

PURPORT (continued)

Lord Caitanya accepted many devotees from communities other than the varṇāśramites, and He Himself declared, to teach us, that He does not belong to any caste or social order of life, but that He is the eternal servant of the servant of the Lord who maintains the damsels of Vṛndāvana (Lord Kṛṣṇa).

COMMENT

Who knows the verse? You can see Srila Prabhupada writes with such conviction and realization; it seems as if he is just speaking from his heart. And he is speaking from his heart, but he is also thinking in terms of verses and paraphrasing the verses in the purport. So, who knows the verse that Srila Prabhupada just paraphrased here?

Devotee: Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ.

Giriraj Swami: Louder, with confidence. [laughter]

Devotee: Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro.

Giriraj Swami: And then gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, “I am not a brahman, I am not a kshatriya, I am not a vaishya, I am not a sudra, I am not a brahmachari, or a grihastha, or a vanaprastha, or a sannyasi, but I’m the servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, the maintainer of the gopīs of Vrindavan.” And then, Srila Prabhupada concludes.

PURPORT (continued)

That is the way of self-realization.

COMMENT

Now, I may add that although Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has confirmed His identity as not belonging to any varna or ashram but as being the servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, and although it is enjoined that one should not see a Vaishnava as belonging to any caste or community but only as a servant of Krishna. Because we are still somewhat conditioned, we also do have to give some consideration to varnashrama-dharma. Varnashrama-dharma means, “One’s natural position in the social and spiritual orders.” Otherwise, if we neglect that aspect, we may come into difficulty.

One example, in one context. When Lord Krishna was residing in Dvaraka, His principal queen was Rukmini. One day, He told Rukmini, “I am not qualified to be your husband,” and then He went on to enumerate her various good qualities, and then, by contrast, He said He had none of those good qualities, and in fact, it’s not even known what caste He belongs to, whether He is a cowherd boy or a prince. And He went on, He was teasing her. He wanted her to respond, but the thought of Krishna leaving her was so shocking to her and so terrifying to her, that she just fainted. But in the commentary, Srila Prabhupada and other acharyas explain that actually, for a marriage to work well, it’s good if the husband and wife are of similar qualities and qualifications.

So, although as Vaishnavas we are also eternal servants of Krishna, when we deal with the material world, we have to consider our material qualities. A relationship like that, of husband and wife, it’s sort of a combination between material and spiritual. Of course, we hope that it will become more and more spiritual. And so, in such a situation, we can’t just say, “Oh, he is a devotee.” or, “She is a devotee, so it’ll be alright.” I mean, it might be, but it may also be worth considering compatibility, as they say.

So now, I wanted to get to the body of the purport. So, I didn’t spend much time on these different countries and people of different countries, but I thought I’ll just mention one, well, at least one.

PURPORT (continued)

On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India.

COMMENT

So, we see that there is a lot of conquering of India by different invaders. Anyway, that’s another topic, but although they may have conquered in a certain way, but spiritually, they could not conquer India.

And Srila Prabhupada related a story of Alexander the Great, that when he came to the precincts of India, there was a yogi in meditation, in the hot sun, and Alexander the Great was very impressed, he was just sitting in meditation in the hot sun. So, he got down and he told the yogi, “I’m Alexander the Great, I’m the conqueror of the world. I’m very impressed with you and I’m ready to give you anything that you ask.” And the yogi replied, “I only want one thing from you. Please move out of the way because you are blocking the sun.” [laughter] In other words, “You are casting a shadow that’s interfering with my austerities.” And Alexander the Great sent back a message to his commanders who were following him, “The people of this place are very special, don’t mess with them. They are special people.”

Srila Prabhupada actually quoted that story to me when I first came to the Boston temple. I was coming every night, and Srila Prabhupada’s program was Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday he would speak in the temple, and Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday he would speak outside, usually at a university or else at some hall or other venue. And Sunday was the Sunday Feast.

So, before coming to Krishna consciousness, I had the idea of serving humanity, and then when I came to Srila Prabhupada, I learned about serving God, that the real process was to serve God, but still, I was wondering about serving humanity, so I asked him, and Srila Prabhupada replied, “To give someone something that makes him so satisfied that he doesn’t want anything else, is that not service?” And he had just spoken on the verse sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣajeahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati, “Only by unmotivated and uninterrupted devotional service can one satisfy one’s soul.”

And then he told the story of Dhruva Maharaja, how he went to this forest to get his kingdom, but in the end, he got God, he got Krishna, and he was so satisfied that he didn’t want anything else. So, he said, “Is this not service, to give someone something that makes him so satisfied he doesn’t want anything else?” And he quoted the story of the yogi and Alexander, he was so satisfied he didn’t want anything that Alexander the Great could offer.

So, that is the nature of pure devotional service. When one has it, one doesn’t want anything else, but one is fully satisfied. Fully satisfied means he doesn’t want anything but service. Not that he is satisfied, “Okay, now I’ve got enough service, now I can take rest,” but satisfied in the sense that he doesn’t want anything except service, but he wants more and more and more service. So, yes, we’ve received a tremendous mercy to be engaged in devotional service, and as Srila Prabhupada says here and as he has repeatedly said, we should also share that good fortune with others.

Sri Sri Radha-Londonisvara ki jaya! Sri Sri Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra ki jaya! Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai ki jaya!

That is the only way we can attempt to repay our debt to him for what he has given us.

So, are there any questions or comments? Yes? Do we have a second microphone?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:16:05].

Giriraj Swami: You are saying that technology is becoming more prominent and it’s disturbing the natural balance of nature? Yes. So, what is the question?

Devotee: Do you have an approach or any ideas?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, an approach. Well, Srila Prabhupada wanted us to have self-sufficient farm communities, in which devotees would be able to live simply and naturally and advance in Krishna consciousness. And there are a number of farm communities, but the two that seem to be the most advanced in terms of really becoming self-sufficient are New Vraja Dhama in Hungary. I mean, I could explain it in detail, but they are really producing most of what they need to eat, and they produce a lot of their own energy, and they even have their own water, and they take care of the cows. I mean, it’s a wonderful project.

I recently visited the Govardhana Eco Village near Bombay, and that’s also very nice. I mean, one of the center pieces of the whole project is the waste processing plant. [laughter] How even human waste can be processed, and that water can be used for irrigating the fields. So, that’s the first thing to have examples, and by nature’s way, things go in cycles. And so, there is a growing awareness of the ill effects of the modern technological civilization, and so people are hankering for a more simple life depending on nature and the cows. I mean, actually, there is no reason to be in the city unless we are preaching. There is really no reason. Otherwise, it’s much better to be in the country. Srila Prabhupada quoted the British poet Cowper, “Man created the cities, and God created the country.”

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:20:45].

PURPORT (continued)

The system of caste, or varṇāśrama-dharma, is no longer regular even amongst the so-called followers of the system. Nor is it now possible to reestablish the institutional function in the context of social, political and economic revolution.

COMMENT

So, everyone’s in the mood of revolution, they don’t want any authority, they don’t want any hierarchy, they don’t want anyone to be above them, they want to be equal, and it’s natural. As Prabhupada says, “The weak serve the strong.” But in that mood, you can’t introduce varnashrama-dharma, but if everyone becomes Krishna conscious, then it doesn’t matter in one sense, because then everyone’s engaged in serving Krishna according to their propensity or capability. Yes?

Devotee: Hare Krishna. The first time I read about varnashrama, I never heard about it. How can it be related to us, to western people? And the second initiation, which now they get for this brahminical initiation. Should we try to develop brahminical qualities, or are Vaishnava qualities higher? Then why are we having a brahminical initiation?

Giriraj Swami: Good question. Actually, Vaishnava is higher than brahman, because pure Vaishnava is transcendental even to the material mode of goodness, whereas a brahman is predominantly in the material mode of goodness. But in the material world, no mode exists in its pure state, it’s always mixed with the other modes. So, even though a brahman is primarily in the mode of goodness, there will be some little influence of passion and ignorance. So, a pure Vaishnava is transcendental even to the position of a brahman or the mode of goodness.

But Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura introduced the system of giving brahminical initiation to Vaishnavas, so that people would not misunderstand the Vaishnavas and think that they were less than brahmans. And so, he awarded brahminical initiation to his disciples, even those who were not born in brahman families, to establish the fact that they are brahmans and Vaishnavas. And what was the first part of your question?

Devotee: The verse you read, it’s obvious for us because we can only have this mercy of spiritual master and association of devotees because we cannot be brahmans or sudras, we are mlechchhas here. So, how should we understand it for us?

Giriraj Swami: I’m not sure what the question is. You are saying that we are nothing in the varnashrama system, it’s only by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada and the devotees of Srila Prabhupada that we can have any position in varnashrama-dharma. Yes?

Devotee: I’m sorry, I forgot the question. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Okay, okay.

Devotee: I remember the question. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: How can people in the West adopt the varnashrama, understand the varnashrama?

Giriraj Swami: Well, we can understand it by reading Srila Prabhupada’s books. But there is daivi-varṇāśrama, which means performing one’s duty for Krishna. In that sense, any devotee who performs his duty or her duty for the pleasure of Krishna is engaged in daivi-varṇāśrama. And in daivi-varṇāśrama, there is really no need to designate someone as a brahman, kshatriya, vaishya, or sudra, because they are all serving Krishna, so they’re all Krishnadasa or Krishnadasi. But just for organization, they may perform different functions, but they are not anything of the material world, they are Krishna’s servants. [laughter] Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, so you were speaking about how not to see Vaishnavas in an ordinary way, in material sense. So, does that mean, we have these two terms nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha does that mean all the Vaishanvas are nitya-mukta, they are eternally liberated. What is the meaning of these two terms?

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are different terms, but yes, we say nitya-mukta, because when one is liberated, then he is in his constitutional position, and that’s eternal. When we say nitya-baddha, eternally conditioned, it’s not really eternally conditioned, but because no one can really trace out the beginning, so we say eternally conditioned, but it’s not really eternal. And then, in terms of perfection, there is nitya-siddha, eternally perfect, and sādhana-siddha, those who become perfect by sadhana, by practice, and then there are kṛpā-siddhas, those who become perfect by mercy.

So, it doesn’t mean that if someone is accepted into devotional service and initiated, it doesn’t mean that the person’s nitya-siddha. I mean, he may not be Siddha at all at that stage, but he could be in the process of becoming sādhana-siddha.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:02].

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that’s right. I mean, a Vaishnava is not ordinary. Even if the Vaishnava is just beginning, but still, it’s very special to be engaged in Krishna’s service. There are many statements that even a neophyte devotee is liberated and even a neophyte devotee is more advanced than the most advanced karmi or jnani or yogi. So yeah, devotees are very precious and rare. Yes?

Devotee: The question would be that in the lecture, we covered a lot of topics about humanity and environmental friendly thinking, and I know that first of all the answer Srila Prabhupada would be that Krishna consciousness is bringing with itself the solutions for this kind of problems, like renewing the environment and humanity, but my question would be, till that point this arrives, is ISKCON ready to work together with other religions or with people out of Krishna consciousness for a higher purpose? For example, about environmental funded projects.

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that a pure devotee is interested in pure devotion whatever tradition it comes in. So, he can go to an assembly of Christians or Muslims, and as long as they are not engaged in the pursuit of economic development or sense gratification or impersonal liberation, he can find that association to be very favorable. But even an assembly of Hindus or even some sort of Vaishnavas, but if they have material motives for economic development, sense gratification, or impersonal liberation, then he will not find that association congenial. So, it’s really not so much a matter of the tradition, but the consciousness of the followers. As far as cooperating for some material objective, I mean, that’s always there.

Say you have a business and a Christian comes into your store. You are not going to refuse to sell him your product because he is a Christian or a Muslim. So, cooperating to help the environment, it’s a good cause, but it is material. Without Krishna, it’s material. And the significance of New Vraja Dham or the Govardhana Ecovillage is to lead a simple life so one can be Krishna conscious. The idea is not to make the world a happy place, because the world can never become a happy place.

In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, that this material world is full of misery and temporary. So, we are not trying to make duḥkhālayam, a place of misery, into sukhālayam, a place of happiness. It’s not possible. But what we are trying to do is to create an environment that’s favorable to Krishna consciousness so we can get out of the material world and go back home, back to Godhead. Do you understand? We are not utopians. As one devotee said, we are not trying to put whipped cream on stool. [laughter]

Devotee: Thank you very much, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Yes?

Devotee: As you read, Srila Prabhupada mentioned that we should understand, not misunderstand that which is not utopian in what. . .

Giriraj Swami: No, that’s spiritual understanding.

Devotee: So now, peacefulness, that is necessary at work. Peacefulness, so that one can live in spiritual consciousness.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Perfect, you understood correctly. [laughter] Yes?

Devotee: Haribol! Maharaja. I just wanted to ask, in regard to Vaishnavas. We say Lord Shiva is one of the greatest Vaishnavas, but when it comes to that celebration of Maha Shiva-ratri, we don’t do anything. Whereas, when it comes to any of the Gosvamis or anything like that, then we will observe and fast for their appearance or disappearance. So, is there any reason why we do not do anything for any of the demigods like Lord Shiva? We consider them demigods and devotees of the Lord, but we only observe something when it comes to the Gosvamis or acharyas.

Giriraj Swami: Well, we follow the mahājanas, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. And our acharyas, and especially Rupa Gosvami, have given us directions on what holidays to observe and how to observe them. Although Lord Shiva and the other demigods are devotees in one aspect, in another aspect, they are demigods. And in pure devotional service, we don’t worship demigods. So, we may internally understand vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ, that Lord Shiva is a great Vaishnava, but if ordinary people see us worshiping Lord Shiva, they’ll think, In ISKCON, they also worship demigods, so we can also worship demigods.

Any other questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: I was wondering, because when we look at the past of Vaishnava culture and tradition, you can see that there were many acharyas and gurus who made some changes or, I mean, as you said, somebody introduced this, somebody introduced that. Let’s say Srila Prabhupada introduced this to the West and simplified many things for us, let’s say he allowed us to chant sixteen rounds instead of sixty-four. So, what is your prediction in the future? Okay, if acharyas can change so many things, what will happen in the future with Krishna consciousness? What is your prediction?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the acharyas don’t change things, but they make adjustments, and there is a big difference. Some of Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers complained that Srila Prabhupada, for example, was allowing men and women to preach together. And so, Prabhupada’s servant, Srutakirti dasa, said to Srila Prabhupada, “We have faith in you that you have preserved the basic principles and only made adjustments in the details, but how do we distinguish what is a principle and what is a detail?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “That requires a little intelligence.” [laughter]

But that is the rule, that we keep the basic principles and only make adjustments in the details. And the acharyas, like Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, were empowered to do that, but we are not, so we just follow what they gave us. And if we do that, then the future is very bright.

Once, there was a conference in Bombay at the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, and the topic of the conference was how all of the world’s problems could be solved by the Bhagavad-gītā. Before the conference began, the organizer, Shrimati Lilavati Munshi, invited all the participants into her quarters for a discussion. And she was amazed by what Srila Prabhupada had done. She kept asking, “How did you do that? How did you get them to give up eating meat, fish, and eggs? How did you get them to chant Hare Krishna? How did you get them to wear dhotis and kurtas and saris?” And just went on and on, “How did you do it? How did you do it?”

But then, she brought up the question, and many people had the same question, because Srila Prabhupada was already quite elderly when he began. So, she brought up, “What is the future of the movement?” And he said, “As long as they follow my instructions, the future will be very bright.” And just like Gandhiji, he had so many programs, but then afterwards, Nehru did everything different. He went against Gandhi’s program. So, he was saying, “If they follow what I have given them, then the future will be very bright. But if they go against what I have given them, what can I do?” But that was in one context. But otherwise, in general, he did have faith that we would continue it, and we are continuing it, so I think it will continue for the next ten thousand years, at least.

Devotees: Haribol! Haribol!

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Srila Prabhupada-anugas ki jaya! So, maybe we’ll end.

Devotee: On the behalf of [Unintelligible 01:44:49] really, really beautiful story. But the question is, was Srila Prabhupada correct, or was Tamal Krishna okay after the operation? [laughter].

Giriraj Swami: I think it was alright. Sometimes you don’t know immediately. I had a root canal job done in Bombay by the sweetest devotee, I mean, the best devotee you could imagine, and I seemed fine, but then when I went to South Africa, the dentist there was probing around, and he said, “This is not a proper job,” so he redid it. [laughter] So, long-term, I don’t know, but immediately, there was no difficulty, there was no complication, there was no infection.

Devotee: That’s why we say it’s so nice to have devotees of Maharaja’s caliber, who were there with Prabhupada to hear these stories. We haven’t heard them like this. Devotees were there, so we very much appreciate Maharaj’s comments. Thank Maharaja one more time, by three very loud Haribol.

Devotees: Haribol! Haribol! Haribol!

Devotee: Sri Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya! We would like to continue the association of Maharaja in his book form [laughter]. We have the books that were mentioned, and Watering the Seed. It’s a story about Prabhupada, we get to hear his personal experiences. Then, Many Moons, a book about departed Vaishnavas. And then a recent book about Vaishnava purports, Life’s Final Exam. So, if you’d like to take a book, please do. Somebody will be there now to assist you if you’d like to take a book. Thank you very much for coming, everybody, Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: I’d like to say something about Many Moons.

Actually, on the Vaishnava calendar here, today is the appearance day of Srila Srivasa Pandita. He is one of the members of the Pancha-tattva. And it’s also the disappearance day of Srila Prabhupada’s disciple, Śrīdhara Swami Maharaja.

Srila Prabhupada quoted this Chanakya sloka, that one moon can illuminate the whole sky more than thousands of little stars. So, Srila Prabhupada often said that his mission was to make one moon, and we didn’t really know whether Srila Prabhupada would be successful. And in one lecture, he said, “My mission was to make one moon, and now, by Krishna’s grace, there are many moons.”

So, in this book, I discuss some of those moons, and one is His Holiness Śrīdhara Swami Maharaja. There are nine: Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja, Srila Tamal Krishna Goswami Maharaja, Srila Śrīdhara Swami Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Svarupa Damodara Swami Maharaja. First, His Grace Jayananda Prabhu. He was the first Prabhupada said we should observe his disappearance day every year.

And then, three from the next generation. Mother Arca Vigraha, she actually had the idea that there should be a Hospice for devotees in Vrindavan. She was from South Africa. And then, Mother Kirtida, she was a disciple of Tamal Krishna Goswami, also from South Africa, but she joined in Dallas and left this world in Dallas. And then, a very nice devotee named Abhirama Thakura. He was from Pakistan, actually.

When I was reading about all these sinful places, I was thinking about how devotees had gone to so many of those places, and one of them was Pakistan, where I went and spent a lot of time. So, those nine are included, and then there is a little piece about Aindra Prabhu, because he left just when the book was about to go to press, so I just put a little something about him.

There are so many moons, rising and setting. So, that’s the idea of that book, and I thought because it is Śrīdhara Swami’s disappearance anniversary, to mention that. Actually, dealing, either directly, or hearing about devotees leaving their bodies, so many of them had extraordinary mercy at the end, I mean, it’s really amazing. One after the other, after the other.

The nine in the book Many Moons are devotees, who, pretty much, were steady throughout their whole devotional careers. But in the other book, Life’s Final Exam: Death and Dying From the Vedic Perspective, there are various case histories. Some of them are devotees who had ups and downs in their devotional careers, but in the end, they got Prabhupada’s mercy and Krishna’s mercy, and they had very glorious departures. By going deeply into these cases, you really see how merciful Srila Prabhupada is to anyone who serves him. Let’s manifest that at the time of death.

Prabhupada had one devotee named Ramdasa, who was in a black body. He had been the head pūjārī in Los Angeles, and he had a very nice model or principle. He didn’t worry about taking care of the Deities, but he had faith that if he took care of the pūjārīs, they would take good care of the Deities. But anyway, he had a type of a degenerative heart disease, and so he came to Vrindavan, and in Vrindavan, he became very elevated in spiritual consciousness. He lived there with his wife, and I won’t go into the details, but he just became very elevated in Krishna consciousness, and then eventually, he left.

But after he left, he visited a number of devotees, and the message he gave to all of them was basically the same, which is, “You can’t imagine how good it is, and whatever difficulties you have to go through to serve Srila Prabhupada and practice Krishna consciousness, it doesn’t matter because what you get in the end is so good that whatever you have to go through to get there is insignificant.” That was his message. He had full faith in Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet. And before he left, he had maybe 200 prints, the impressions of Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet printed, and he made a list of, I guess, 200 people or so, and then he told his wife that after he left, he wanted these laminated to be given as gifts, Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet.

So, that really gave a nice perspective on what we are doing here and how really small a price it is to pay for what we can get in the end, if we just remain faithful to the process and the mood of service. Alright, thank you, Hare Krishna.