NOI – Secrets of Success and Failure in Devotional Service—Part 02

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. 

So, to begin I would like to speak about cows, because we are in the midst of cows. On Tamal Krishna Goswami’s disappearance day—which is the same as Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji Maharaja’s disappearance day—I went to the Bhaktivedanta ashram at Govardhana. And after the program in the late afternoon, His Holiness Kesava Bharati dasa Gosvami and I wanted to just talk, so we were thinking of where to talk. And he suggests we sit near the cows. And he said that when Srila Prabhupada entered the cow shed in Gita-nagari, he said that the cows are so auspicious, that just by associating with the cows you come to the mode of goodness business. So, we sat and talked for about two hours, and I could feel the influence of the mode of goodness of being with the cows.

Then just about a week ago, I visited the Govardhana eco village, outside of Mumbai, and we took a tour of the goshala. And one of the devotees was visiting from another community that had cows in Europe. And he commented to Radhanath Swami that the Indian breeds seemed to be more peaceful than the breeds that they have in Europe, and he said that their cows are more fiery; they don’t let you pet them and so on. And then Radhanath Swami said that our cows also used to be fiery, but they changed by association with the devotees. He said that he gave an instruction or made a request that everyone in the community there—it is a large community, I think there are seventy-five brahmacharis and some families—that everyone in the community should spend at least three hours a week with the cows. And because of his instruction, so many devotees started to come and to spend time with the cows and petting them and brushing them and I guess even milking them, cleaning up and whatever different service they could do. And then the temperament of the cows changed, so that now they are very peaceful and accessible. So, cows are good.

So now, we are quite close to the end of the chapter on prajalpaḥ. But we are coming to a topic that in one sense doesn’t need to be discussed, because if we follow the instruction not to speak about others, then we don’t have to worry about blaspheming devotees, because we won’t be talking about others. In fact, if we follow the instruction to satataṁ kīrtayanto mām, if we follow the instruction to engage always in glorifying Krishna, we don’t even have to hear about not talking about others. In fact, we don’t even have to continue this discussion, because all we have to do is constantly talk about Krishna.

But in that principal verse smartavyaḥ satataṁ viṣṇur vismartavyo na jātucit the apparent meaning is that one should always remember Krishna and one should never forget Him. But Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says actually in this context satataṁ does not mean always remember Krishna. Because if one could always remember Krishna there would be no need for the prohibition to never forget Krishna. So, the fact that there is a prohibition to never forget Krishna means that you cannot in our stage always remember Krishna, because if we did, there would be no question of forgetting Him—there would be no need for any such prohibition. But yes, in our stage we do need both, and therefore we try to remember Krishna as much as possible and we try to avoid things that will interfere with our remembrance of Krishna, such as talking unnecessarily in general and unnecessarily about others in particular.

But now we come—right at the very end of the chapter on prajalpaḥ—to what could be the worst kind of talking about others. 

READING from Śrī Bhaktyāloka

Speech in the form of blaspheming sādhus is the source of great inauspiciousness. If one wants to attain devotion to Lord Hari, then he should make a vow like this:

COMMENT

Do you want to attain devotion to Lord Hari? So, you should make a vow like this. 

READING continued

“In this life I will never blaspheme sādhus.”

COMMENT

Then Bhaktivinoda Thakura continues:

READING continued

Devotees are sādhus. By blaspheming them, all one’s virtues are destroyed. By blaspheming the supremely pure Lord Mahādeva,

COMMENT

Who is Lord Mahadeva? Lord Siva.

READING continued

Prajāpati Dakṣa, the best of ascetics, met with severe inauspiciousness. As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.4.46):

āyuḥ śriyaṁ yaśo dharmaṁ  lokān āśiṣa eva ca
hanti śreyāṁsi sarvāṇi puṁso mahad-atikramaḥ

“My dear King, when a man persecutes great souls, all his benedictions of longevity, beauty, fame, religion, blessings and promotion to higher planets will be destroyed.”

COMMENT

So, because we live in the association of devotees—or frequently associate with devotees—if we have any of those tendencies to talk about others, compelled by envy, or the desire for reputation, then we go beyond just talking about others, into the realm of sādhu-nindā which brings us into the realm of nāma-aparādha. And because it is such a crucial topic, we will read a little from Bhaktivinoda Thakura about the offense against the holy name of sādhu-nindā, or criticizing devotees.

This discussion comes in Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s book called Śri Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi—the beautiful wish fulfilling gem of the holy name. And in order to properly understand sādhu-nindā, we have to understand what is a sadhu. And Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains—and this is a general principle in definitions—that there are two parts. There is the svarūpa-lakṣaṇa, which is the sort of intrinsic, inherent characteristic of the person or the thing, and then there is the tathasta-lakṣaṇā, which is the marginal characteristic. So, the svarūpa-lakṣaṇa is always there, whereas the tathasta-lakṣaṇā may be there under certain circumstances. 

So, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes about twenty-six qualities of a devotee. And among the twenty-six qualities, one is the svarūpa-lakṣaṇa—the inherent characteristic of a devotee, and that is kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇam—he takes exclusive shelter of Krishna or of the holy name of Krishna. And the other twenty-five—like say being humble, being tolerant—those are tathasta—lakṣaṇās, and those will gradually develop. They may not all be present immediately, but they will gradually develop by the performance of sadhana-bhakti – especially offenseless chanting of the holy names.

But for example, being tolerant, that is a tathasta-lakṣaṇā because that quality may not be demonstrated unless there is something to tolerate. Whereas taking exclusive shelter of Krishna—taking full shelter of Krishna—that is there, no matter what. Or say one is nirdhabuk—he doesn’t eat more than necessary. That quality is demonstrated when he eats, or when he refuses to eat—it is not manifest all the time. But the inherent quality of full surrender to Krishna, that is always there, in any circumstance. So, if someone has that svarūpa-lakṣaṇa, he is considered a devotee or a sadhu. And even if he doesn’t fully manifest all the other qualities immediately, he is still considered a sadhu or a devotee. And criticizing him or her for some deficiency in those other qualities counts as sādhu-nindā—it is an offense. 

So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura will discusses a few of the grounds on which someone might criticize a devotee, but which are not really grounds that justify it. And there are basically four that he mentions. One is a devotee’s sinful activities from before he or she surrendered to Krishna—before he or she came into the association of devotees. So, to talk about a devotee’s previous sinful activities is an offense, sādhu-nindā. Even after coming to the association of devotees and taking up the practice of chanting the holy names, there may still be some vestiges of past sinful activities. And so, to criticize a devotee for those vestiges of past sinful activity is also an offense. 

Srila Prabhupada told a story about that, that once there was a shoe thief who became a devotee. And so, he joined a party that was going on pilgrimage by train. So, in the morning when all the other yatris woke up, no one could find their shoes. And then eventually they started finding them in all different places on the train, and nobody could understand what happened. And then the former shoe thief admitted that he had done it—that he had that habit of stealing shoes, but he knew it wasn’t good to steal shoes, but he couldn’t totally control that urge, so he would take that urge, but he wouldn’t actually steal them, but he would just move them to some other place. So, their shoes ended up being scattered in different places. So that is an example of traces of a past bad habit.

Then the fourth category—which is a little different—is an accidental fall down. It may happen that a devotee has an accidental fall down and to criticize a devotee for the accidental fall down is an offense. And the fourth I guess is to not fully manifest all the good qualities of the devotee, because those will come. And then also some of those depend on a person’s position. Let me double check—does that match? Oh yes, I knew it when I began. His caste, yes. 

“An offender against a sadhu is one who criticizes a Vaishnava about his caste. Some unpremeditated accidental fall down, the last traces of his precious sins, or his sinful activities prior to his surrendering to Lord Krishna. This offender will never develop a taste for chanting the name. One who has taken complete shelter of the pure devotional process is considered a pure Vaishnava. The four above mentioned faults may be present within him, but he is totally free from all the other shortcomings. Hence, criticizing him spells doom for the offender. The glories of the holy name are propagated by the Vaishnava. Lord Krishna does not tolerate any criticism against Him.” 

Now, we come to a very interesting discussion which relates to the earlier discussion about speaking about others—when it is allowed. It is allowed if the guru needs to clarify a point by a negative example. Because we have to know what is right and we have to know what is wrong. And this next point is something that Srila Prabhupada confronted a lot, and I will tell a story about one such case.

Because we have discussed who is a sadhu, but there are other people who are not sadhus. But general people think they are sadhus. So, if preacher criticizes such a person who is not really a sadhu—ordinary people may criticize the preacher, and that happened a lot because Prabhupada criticized a lot of people who were not sadhus really, but who were accepted as sort of popular religious figures in India. So, there are three categories. 

Well actually, a more basic point is to avoid bad association, because one becomes offensive through bad association. So, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra, the behavior of a Vaishnava is to avoid the association of asat, means non-devotees. And then he describes categories of non-devotees—asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra ‘strī-saṅgī’ — eka asādhu. Asādhu means not a sadhu. ‘strī-saṅgī’ means associating with a woman for sense gratification or with a man who associates with a woman for sense gratification. asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra ‘strī-saṅgī’ — eka asādhu, ‘kṛṣṇābhakta’ āra. And the other category is someone who is not a devotee. 

So, in that category of non-devotee, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura discusses three categories. 

READING continued

There are three kinds of non-devotees, the Mayavadi, the dharmadhvaji—(pretender). 

COMMENT

Dhvaja means flag and dharma means religion, so they wave the flag of being religious—but they are pretenders, they are not really devotees. And the third category—I guess there are many everywhere, but somehow this last category seems…, there is some prominent ones in England—no offense—the nirīśvara, the atheist. Actually, they are everywhere, I shouldn’t have said that. But I learned that there are churches of atheists in England—I haven’t heard of that in other places. They get together and they sing mundane songs, but I am making it up—but for he is a jolly good fellow—and they have their kathā which is atheistic. It is like a regular church program—or temple program—of atheists. nirīśvara—no God. 

READING continued

Mayavadis do not accept that the Supreme Lord’s form is eternal. They say the deity form of the Lord is illusory or maya, and that the jiva is also a product of maya. 

COMMENT

We know what Mayavadis are and if you don’t, you should learn. 

READING continued

A dharmahvaji is a person who has no devotion or attachment in the heart, but makes a show of it externally. He wears the clothes of a devotee to accomplish materialistic ends. And a nirīśvara is a non-believer—an atheist. A serious aspirant or sādhaka must shun such bad association. 

COMMENT

In other words, we shouldn’t associate with any of these three categories. What are the three? Yes, yes. Now, listen to this.

READING continued

If anyone argues that criticizing such non-devotees is sādhu-nindā, his company must also be meticulously avoided. One has to keep away from bad association, and take complete shelter of the holy name. Only then is love of Godhead ensured.

COMMENT

So, I am going to speak about Srila Prabhupada and his companion named Doctor Patel. I hope you all listened to Srila Prabhupada’s recorded lectures and conversations, but every morning in Juhu—Srila Prabhupada spent a lot of time in Juhu—he would walk on Juhu beach with Doctor Patel. And Doctor Patel was a very intelligent person. He knew Sanskrit, he studied in England, and even having studied in England he maintained strict Vaishnava principles of behavior. And he was a very good conversationalist—he would come every morning, and he and Srila Prabhupada would have very instructive talks. And some of them were friendly and some of them became a little heated. And one morning it became extremely tense. So, Doctor Patel was speaking about a famous religious leader—so called religious leader—of India. And Srila Prabhupada said that actually, he is a rascal. But not quite as direct as that, but it came to that. What he said was—and it was his general way of assessing anyone—na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ māyayāpahṛta jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. That anyone who has not surrendered to Krishna is duṣkṛtino—that means miscreant—na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, mūḍhāḥ means fool, rascal. Narādhamāḥ, the lowest of man—māyayāpahṛta jñānā, someone who might appear to be very knowledgeable and learned, but his knowledge is taken away by maya—and āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, someone who partakes of the nature of a demon.

So, Doctor Patel became offended, and he said, “How can you say that?” Srila Prabhupada said, “I am not saying—Krishna’s saying—I am just repeating what Krishna says.” So, there was quite a discussion, and this so-called religious figure—he was a worshiper of a demigod, I don’t’ want to give too many hints—and Srila Prabhupada said that according to the Bhagavad-gītā, anyone who worships demigods is less intelligent – alpha-medasah. And on top of it this person was claiming to be God. So, Prabhupada said, “He is less intelligent—he is not even an intelligent human being, so how can he be God?”

But Doctor Patel somehow that morning, he got extremely upset and started shouting at Srila Prabhupada that you can’t speak like this about him. And Prabhupada said, “I am not saying—Krishna’s saying—I am only repeating what Krishna’s saying.” And Doctor Patel became so angry that he was shouting at Prabhupada, and Prabhupada was shouting back at him. And Doctor Patel because of his learning, piety, principles—he was sort of like the leader of his friends. He would always have his cronies with him, two, three, four, five—up to six, eight with him. But even his cronies, they were trying to restrain him. And they were saying, “Swamiji has a heart condition, don’t argue with him like this.” And they were physically trying to take him away. And of course, we disciples, we couldn’t do anything. And it was like he wouldn’t leave—it was like in a boxing match, sometimes the bell rings to signal the end of the round, but they just kept—and the referees, they tried to pull them to their corners—it was like that, they just wouldn’t stop.

So, for the first time in years, Doctor Patel didn’t come for the morning walk. And Srila Prabhupada also said, ”Now no more discussion—no more argument—we will just read Kṛṣṇa book.” So, we were just reading Krishna book. And I don’t know if it was the next day or two days later, but Prabhupada was walking in one direction on the beach, and Doctor Patel was coming from the other direction. And Prabhupada was right near the ocean, and Doctor Patel was a little inward. And he didn’t have any plan to approach Prabhupada, but as he described it, something in his heart just drew him as if by force to Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet. And he offered obeisances to Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet, and then he said, “Prabhupada I am sorry, but I have been taught from my childhood to respect all the accredited saints of India.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “And my business is to say who is a saint and who is not a saint.” So, they came together again, and they had a very sort of interesting relationship. 

After this incident, Tamal Krishna Goswami went to Srila Prabhupada and asked him, ”What is Doctor Patel’s position? Because sometimes Srila Prabhupada would accuse him of being a Mayavadi, and Doctor Patel would protest and say, “No sir, I am not a Mayavadi, I am a Vaishnava.” And sometimes he would talk like a Vaishnava, but sometimes he would talk differently—it was hard to know. 

So Prabhupada told this story of a man who could speak perfectly in many different languages. And he came to a village and no one knew what his actual mother tongue was. Whatever language people would address him in, he would reply perfectly in the same language. So, finally one man said, okay, I will find out. So, when that man wasn’t looking, he snuck up behind him and gave him a very strong whack on the back. And then that man began to curse in his own language. So, Srila Prabhupada said that Doctor Patel—and there are others like that—they can speak very expertly in different languages, like a Vaishnava, like a saivaite, like a mayavadi, whatever. But when you really hit him where it hurts, then his real language comes out. So, then Tamal Krishna Goswami asked, “But why do you put up with him?” Because I think many of the disciples felt like why does Prabhupada entertain him? And Prabhupada replied, “We have to engage everyone.” 

So, that was Srila Prabhupada’s mood, and he could do that because he was totally fixed in Krishna consciousness and he could lead any argument. And those arguments were very instructive for us and now for anyone who hears them. 

And there were many such cases—there was one case when we went to Indore. There was a Gita-jayanti celebration—means the anniversary of the speaking of the Bhagavad-gītā. And every afternoon Srila Prabhupada—pretty much anywhere—he would have darshan hours or visiting hours where anyone could come and see him.

Devotee: Which year?

Giriraj Swami: When he was in Indore? That was 1971. It was just before we got Juhu. But that place in particular, Srila Prabhupada complained that people were coming with their own opinions, and he said they are testing me, and if I agree with them, they think Swamiji is very good, and if I disagree with them, they think Swamji is not so good. So, one night there was a program arranged for Srila Prabhupada at Gita Hall. And then the next afternoon—quite a large group of Hindu gentlemen came, maybe eight or nine. And Prabhupada brought up that there was no picture of Krishna in the Gita society’s hall. He said, ”Even in an ordinary political party, if there is a gathering, they will have a picture of the head of the party or something. There is no picture of Krishna.” So, one of the men said, ”Well there was a dvipa—a lamp.” And Prabhupada said, ”Well where does it say in the Bhagavad-gītā that you should worship the dvipa? And they said, ”Well, people have been doing this for centuries in India.” From the beginning they were arguing. And it gradually built up, and Prabhupada said that the Bhagavad-gītā ‘s is not being presented properly and our mission is to present the Bhagavad-gītā properly as it is. So, they thought, how can you say that you are presenting it properly and others are not? So Prabhupada explained—he could explain anything he said. He justified everything he said according to sastra – sadhu, sastra, and guru.

And then they said it is just like this—they said you should not criticize. You should be sama-darśinaḥ. Now, this is referring to a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, paṇḍita sama-darśinaḥ, that a pandit—a learning person—he sees equally a gentle and learned brahman, a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog eater. vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini. So, they said you should not criticize—you should be sama-darśinaḥ. And Srila Prabhupada replied that sama-darśinaḥ is a very high platform. So, sama-darśinaḥ means that you don’t distinguish between pious and sinful activities. 

Why is someone born as a brahman? Why is someone born as a dog? It is because of their past pious and sinful activities. So, not to distinguish means that he doesn’t distinguish between pious and sinful activities. And Prabhupada said, “I am not on that platform, and I see that if someone is doing nonsense they should stop it. I don’t have that darshan. And it went back and forth, and in the end—or towards the end—they said they couldn’t believe that. They said, “Anyway, there is so many mistakes in the shastra.” And Prabhupada said, ”Oh now you are criticizing Vyasa, and then we cannot speak, and you get out. You are criticizing Vyasa, we cannot speak—you get out.”

So, then they sort of backtracked a little and said, ”Well, what is your contribution?” Because Prabhupada said I am just repeating. “Well, what is your contribution beyond what the previous acharyas have done?” And Prabhupada said, “I just repeat—I don’t go beyond the previous acharyas.

So, at a certain stage one of Prabhupada’s disciples started telling them about Prabhupada’s worldwide preaching activities, and some how they got impressed with that and they quieted down a little bit. And they were very impressed that people from all over the world were becoming devotees. And Prabhupada said, ”That this is my sama-darśinaḥ”—my equal vision—that I have made Krishna consciousness available to people all over the world of any background. And that is my contribution to the previous acharyas—no one before has ever done this. In, that way he answered their questions, and in the end, they were quite satisfied. 

This is a problem, especially in India where people have so many sentiments for so many non-devotees who they think are sadhus. And sometimes as Prabhupada said we have to say who is a sadhu and who is not sadhu.

I am thinking we should leave time for questions and answers, and so I think we can end the official discussion here—of course there is much more than we could say about all of these topics and many more examples that we could give from our own experience—and from our experience with Srila Prabhupada. But I would like to hear from you—whatever you would like to share or ask.

Yes?

Devotee: About two months ago you sent an email out which completely changed my thinking about the [Unintelligible 00:46:20]. And I have become such a big fan of your [Unintelligible 00:46:30] it has been so beautifully said about who is a sadhu and even if he is committing obvious mistakes. You were alluding to the primary and secondary characteristics of svarupa and tathasta laksana. And since then, I have used that in our management meetings, because when we manage people, we always have to, when we manage people, see from that vision that if their family characteristic is love of Krishna and surrendering to Krishna then the other faults can be sort of overlooked. Can you expand on that, because I thought it was so beautiful?

Giriraj Swami: I thought you just expanded on it. Yes, the verse: api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, that even if someone is engaged in the most abominable activity, if he is properly situated in devotional service, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ, he should be considered a sadhu or devotee. In the next verse, Krishna says kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā [- that Krishna from within the heart will rectify him.

So, yes, we should have that view of Krishna’s that if someone is properly situated in devotional service, kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇam—which means taking the exclusive shelter of Krishna, not any demigods or anything else—then even if they engage in an abdominal activity from the social point of view—not spiritually, but from the social point of view—they should be considered saintly, sadhu. And Krishna from within the heart, very soon He will rectify that. 

We shouldn’t be eager to find the faults—we should be eager to see the good. And although we just touched on what is sādhu-nindā. we didn’t really discuss the remedy. But there are two categories—one is that one knowingly blasphemes a devotee, and then the remedy is that one must approach the devotee and beg forgiveness sincerely. And the other is unknowingly—out of ignorance, you don’t really know who the person is and just carelessly or recklessly criticize or blaspheme—and then later realize: “Oh my gosh, I didn’t know that that this person is so elevated.” So, in that case, you don’t have to—or at least not necessarily—approach the devotee who you offended, but you should glorify the devotee. 

There is a case where someone had unknowingly blasphemed Chaitanya Mahaprabhu—out of ignorance he thought He was a sentimentalist singing, dancing, or whatever—not sure exactly what he said. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said: “If someone drinks poison then to counteract the poison with the same tongue that drank the poison, he can drink nectar”—something to counteract the poison. So, with the same tongue that you use to blaspheme, you should use the same tongue to glorify. 

So that is how to deal with two broad categories of blasphemy. But we shouldn’t just let it go. We have to take some remedial measure as soon as possible. 

You two work it out. 

Devotee: Ladies first.

Devotee: Thank you. Hare Krishna. I was wondering that you mentioned that the devotee always waits for Krishna’s mercy. But I wanted to know that—whatever is happening in our life, whatever situation you go through—is that not Krishna’s mercy? And what [Unintelligible 00:52:18] 

Giriraj Swami: That is a good question. I mean in the context of the discussion of bhakti—that dhairyāt, that patience means not that we just simply sit and wait for Krishna’s mercy and do nothing. But it means that we make our best effort and at the same time wait for Krishna’s mercy. And we all will get some mercy—we can’t even continue without some mercy. But we may want more mercy, so we have to be patient and continue with our efforts.

But there is another principle, tat te ‘nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo, that says that one who is engaged in devotional service should await the Lord’s mercy while suffering the effects of painful reactions. And if one tolerates and engages in serving the Lord with body, mind, and words, tolerating the painful effects of one’s past actions and expecting the Lord’s mercy, then one will inherit the Kingdom of God. That dāya-bhāk, that refers to a child inheriting the parent’s property. So, the idea is that all that a child has to do is remain alive long enough, and he or she will inherit the parent’s property. So similarly, all a devotee has to do is remain alive in Krishna consciousness by engaging in devotional service in the association of devotees. All she or he has to do is remain alive in Krishna consciousness, and he or she will inherit the Kingdom of God, in other words he will be eligible for liberation. 

Devotee: So that is the mercy that you await?

Giriraj Swami: Well, await means you continue tanu-vāṅ-manobhir—you engage in service with your body, mind, and words. Yes, that is the mercy. As far as what happens to the body or the mind, that we can’t say. That goes on—the duality is there. So, we can’t say I am waiting for Krishna. I bought so many lottery tickets and every time I lost, now I am waiting—I am patiently waiting for Krishna’s mercy. One day I will win the lottery. That is not what we are talking about. 

Yes?

Devotee: My question is about Chota Haridasa, Maharaja. He served Mahaprabhu and made a mistake by begging at the wrong door. The devotees were even asking Mahaprabhu to forgive him and let him back into His association, but Mahaprabhu neglected him and finally he committed suicide. So, this is quite intense a pastime of Mahaprabhu, what do we learn from this?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, this incident is related in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and at the end Srila Prabhupada quotes his Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura seven lessons to be derived from the incident. But, yes, Chota Haridasa went to the home of Madhavi, Siki Mahiti’s sister—his sister who was a very confidential associate of Mahaprabhu. But she had a beautiful young daughter. And so Chota Haridasa timed his visit to go there when that beautiful young daughter would be present, and so when he went, he was sort of maybe lustfully looking at the girl. And so, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came to know about it he banished Chota Haridasa. And then Chota Haridasa went to the confluence of the Ganges and the Yamuna, Triveni, and he gave up his life. But after doing so, he visited. So yes, the devotees told Mahaprabhu what happened, and Mahaprabhu said, “Good.” But Chota Haridasa would come to Mahaprabhu in an invisible form and sing for Him—he has a very good kirtan voice—and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was relishing his kirtan. So, He actually accepted him back into His association.

So, at the end of the Chapter Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura raises that question—how could Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is the ocean of mercy and love, deal in such a way with Chota Haridasa? And he says that the acharya as the head of the institution sometimes has to set a strict standard, otherwise the standard within the institution will become slack, and the spiritual vitality will be lost. And then the sincere devotees will be discouraged because of lax devotees. 

But another lesson is that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never neglects his devotee, because in the end he did show mercy and He accepted his service again. And there are other similar lessons like that. So, it was said of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu—and it is true of an acharya—that sometimes He was soft as a rose and sometimes He was hard as a thunderbolt. So, both may be required according to the situation. 

Yes, what is your good name?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:00:54] 

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:00:57]

Devotee: That is right. 

Giriraj Swami: Nice.

Devotee: When I was little, I remember my mother told me never to ask the deities for anything material. I found that a bit odd—then why worship anyone? But then, many many years later, I read in Dāmodarāṣṭakam, it is said in verse four, “My Lord if you are primed and if it pleases my service to You, please give me only the things that increase my devotion to Your lotus feet.” Of course, I know that You can give me a lot of other benedictions but none of these things make any sense to You. So, which is true?

Giriraj Swami: Well, no, we shouldn’t ask for anything material from the Lord. But the author of Dāmodarāṣṭakam wasn’t asking for anything material. So, what is the contradiction? 

Devotee: The contradiction is that many of the eastern preachers who sit on the vyāsāsana, they actually said if you want anything do this, do that, and so on. So, it is not exactly what Prabhupada told me, that ISKCON is about śuddha-bhakti, that as soon as you introduce any kind of pay back—material pay back—it becomes a material transaction.

Giriraj Swami: That is true. But there are many statements in the scripture that offer various boons to the practitioners, with the idea of attracting them to devotional service. Because they are not coming as devotees, but we want to attract them to devotional service. 

Devotee: So, are you saying that these verses are from later additions?

Giriraj Swami: No, they are not later additions. Preachers are always trying to get conditioned souls to take up devotional service, and we don’t preach that you will get material benefit from devotional service. But someone may approach us with a material motive and we might engage them.

I will give my own example—I don’t know if it is a good example or not—but before coming here in the Mumbai airport, there was a lady who was sort of helping me get through immigration and different things. And then before leaving she said, “Swamiji, I want your blessings.” So, I said, “What blessing do you want?” She was part of the airport ground staff. She said, “I want to become a flight attendant.” I said, “Well, why do you want to become a flight attendant?” So, she said, “Well from my childhood it is been my dream childhood to become a flight attendant.” So, now that sort of put me in an awkward position. So, I said, “Well, have you heard about the Hare Krishna temple in Juhu?” And maybe vaguely, but she had never been there. So, I said, “You should go there and there is Deities of Gaura-Nitai and Radha and Krishna and Sita-Rama — so you can go and pray to them. But I think you can do better than becoming a flight attendant—I think you are aiming too low. You could ask for something spiritual that would give you eternal happiness and bliss.” But I said, “You can also pray to become a flight attendant—I can’t guarantee what the result will be.”

So, there are verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam where the Lord says that “If someone approaches Me for something material, certainly he is very foolish. But I am not so foolish, so I will deal with him in such a way…” He said that such a person is like someone who wants to drink poison instead of ambrosia or nectar, “But I will deal with him in such a way that he gives up the poison and the sense gratification and drinks the nectar of My lotus feet.” 

So, there are examples—– Dhruva Maharaja, he approached the Lord to get something material. But the way the Lord dealt with him, he forgot his material desires and was happy just with the Lord’s service.

Devotee: In ISKCON should preachers take a general tact in respect to this?

Giriraj Swami: I would be very wary, while on the vyāsāsana to offer material benefits for devotional service. 

Devotee: Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. I hope we weren’t engaged in talking about others here. But maybe it was to be instructive. Yes. What is your name?

Devotee: Thank you for the class, it was really helpful. From what you have been saying today it seems like to tolerate the urge to speak is one of the primary things that we need to do in order to develop that main quality of patience. I am really confused in the condition of when we have envy or full of envy or we are full of other things, it says in other places in the shastra, it is the most difficult sense to control, it almost seems like a never ending circle of, well, we are conditioned, we are very likely to do those things, because we have got all the dis-qualities, but if we don’t actually learn to do that, we are not going to develop the other qualities in order to actually begin to advance. So, is there like a specific mentality or actions or things we can do in order to help ourselves avoid that?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, indeed. In fact, the verse you quoted—or the prayer you quoted—is very relevant, śarīra avidyā-jāl. And, within that there is a solution, “My dear Lord, you are so kind, You have sent us this nice prasāda—spiritual food—just to conquer over the tongue. So that is for eating—and for speaking or hearing, the Lord is also very kind. And He comes Himself, and He manifests His pastimes to create subject matter for speaking and hearing. And He sends His devotees who are relishing discussing the glories of the Lord. And so, the remedy for us is to get caught up in that flow of nectar. In fact, I will read a nice verse that is one of my favorites, and I used to know it by heart. Well, I will paraphrase it. It is not here.

But what the verse says is that in places where pure devotees reside, strictly following the regulative principles, one should hear the flow of nectar that comes from their mouths. And if one does so, one will be freed from the necessities of life, hunger and thirst, and will become free from illusion and fear and hankering.

So, the idea is that we should place ourselves in such a situation where that flow of nectar—it is an inundation—carries us away. That is the idea. 

Here is another nice one:

satām ayaṁ sāra-bhṛtāṁ nisargo
yad-artha-vāṇī-śruti-cetasām api
prati-kṣaṇaṁ navya-vad acyutasya yat
striyā viṭānām iva sādhu vārtā        [ŚB 10.13.2]

“Paramahamsas, devotees who have accepted the essence of life are attached to Krishna in the core of their hearts, and He is the aim of their lives. It is their nature to talk only of Krishna at every moment, as if such topics were newer and newer. They are attached to such topics, just as materialists are attached to topics of women and sex.”

So, we need to be in that association, and to get caught up in it. And that is the remedy. 

Yes, at the back.

Devotee: Well, in the context of patience which we are talking about today, you and Tamal Krishna Maharaja in my opinion have different natures. So how did patience play out in your natures? You are more-simple and take your time to think about things and he is much more passionately involved, so I am just interested to see how Tamal Krsna Maharaja show patience and how did it work between the two of you cooperating? Because patience brought success.

Giriraj Swami: Well, can we go back to utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt? So, actually these two are both required. Utsāhān—that means enthusiasm—and dhairyāt means patience. And we actually need both. Srila Prabhupada said that patience without enthusiasm can lead to lethargy, and enthusiasm without patience can lead to a desire to control. So, we actually need both. I don’t know if you are hinting that Tamal Krishna Goswami supplied more of the enthusiasm and I more of the patience, but it is possible, because without me it might have been more of the desire to control, and without him it might there might have of been a little lethargy. So, it was a good combination. Yes?

Devotee: So, to follow on from that, is it like that in life that if according to our nature we find limitations and we should come together with people who have that quality and work together, or should we be just as best as we can, be patient until we can manifest? Because we are a spirit soul?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada always gave the example of the blind man and the lame man. The blind man may be physically very strong but he can’t go anywhere because he is blind. And the lame man may have perfect vision but he also can’t go anywhere because he is lame or crippled. But if the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulders, then together they can go forward. And I think in general that is what our association is meant to accomplish, that we complement each other—we may be strong in one area and weak in another area, so we get together with other devotees, and each of us provides whatever strength we can, and that combination is very strong. And internally, individually, we can try to improve in different areas. If we are weak in patience, we can learn how to increase in patience—that was the subject of today’s discussion. But association is very important—even in our internal work, it is very helpful to associate with devotees who are stronger than we are in a certain area, or maybe more advanced than we are in general. That makes everything better. And we can also associate with the cows—by associating with the cows we will come to a mode of goodness, that passionate mood can subside by their association. Yes?

Devotee: Thank you, sorry I was late in the beginning but I got stuck. I know that I am coming from a ksatriya, I have ksatriya blood compared to my husband, he is completely brahman—he is so shanti shanti. I don’t have patience at all, so what he said was—sorry—he is teaching me how to become more shanti.

Giriraj Swami: I think that is the answer. Well, maybe you get things done, and you getting things done relieves him of having to get things done, so he can be more peaceful. I don’t know, but as long as it is working—if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Devotee: Sixteen years we have been together so it looks like it is working. 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, if you want you could tell him what you are getting out of it and ask him what he is getting out of it. Or not. 

Devotee: Forgive me for asking a second question. Quite often you find that in lectures, you wonder sometimes if all you need to do is to keep your nose clean with regards to the four regulative principles and chant your sixteen rounds and if you do that, the test of my understanding, is that you will go to Vaikuntha. But we also notice from Bhagavad-gītā that it says that whatever you do…You have to work, that is your right. But the result of that, is that it is not in your hands. Could you comment on that please?

Giriraj Swami: Well, earlier I read from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura that the fruitive workers want elevation to heavenly planets. The jnanis want impersonal liberation. And the devotees want Krishna’s pleasure. And to achieve Krishna’s pleasure, they require patience, because achieving Krishna’s pleasure may not be that easy. And I had some other verses—I actually have great faith in this process of speaking with devotees, because so many points come up from the devotees that I was prepared for, but somehow didn’t include in the class proper. But to really achieve Krishna’s pleasure one has to engage in unalloyed and uninterrupted devotional service. I mean yes, He is also pleased if we just make any effort, yasya prasādād bhagavat–prasādo. If we please the spiritual master then Krishna is pleased. But He is really pleased when we do all of those things and become pure devotees. And so, I think a good example was Lord Chaitanya and His spiritual master. You might know this from Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, but Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu—his spiritual master told him to chant the holy names, and by chanting the holy names He began to manifest ecstatic symptoms. But he didn’t know they were ecstatic symptoms, he just thought He was becoming crazy, singing and dancing like a mad man—crying all the time. He started thinking that maybe by the effect of the mantra he was becoming crazy. So, He approached His spiritual master, and His spiritual master was very pleased. And this is what His spiritual master told him.

bhāla haila, pāile tumi parama-puruṣārtha
tomāra premete āmi hailāṅ kṛtārtha        [Cc Ādi 7.91]

“It is very good, my dear child, that you have attained the supreme goal of life by developing love of Godhead. Thus, you have pleased me very much, and I am very much obliged to you.” 

Giriraj Swami: That is what pleases Krishna, and that takes time to come to that stage, so we have to patiently persevere and control the urge to speak. Yes?

Devotee: How do you maintain your enthusiasm? 

Giriraj Swami: How do you maintain your enthusiasm? Well, Srila Prabhupada said that if we follow the regulative principles, we will be enthusiastic. So, if we are lacking in enthusiasm, it may be an indication that we need to follow the regulative principles more strictly. And by regulative principles I don’t mean the four principles of no eating meat, fish, or eggs, no taking of intoxicants, no engaging in illicit sex and no gambling. Those are not the regulative principles of devotional service—those are the regulative principles to become a human being. The regulative principles of devotional service are chanting, hearing about Krishna, remembering Him, worshiping the deity, associating with devotees. So, if we do those, then we will maintain our enthusiasm. And always association—if you associate with enthusiastic devotees, that will also help you to be enthusiastic. But those enthusiastic devotees will be following—you can’t really maintain enthusiasm without following. Association’s so much—so much is association. In fact, once Srila Prabhupada said Krishna consciousness is 90 percent association. So, anything, chanting japa, speaking and hearing kṛṣṇa-kathā is also association.

Now one thing about hearing from others—I didn’t mention it in the class but somehow it occurred to me. Sometimes people have something on their mind about another person and it is like they feel they have to talk to someone about it, otherwise they’ll just explode. So, what do you do in such a case? It may be that you listen to the person, just to give them a way of releasing all of that energy. Because if they don’t release that energy, it can just build up, build up, build up and they can just explode—not physically, but just explode. 

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:06] 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, well that is another point. Who is the right person for them to speak to? I mean they may not particularly want to escalate the matter—they just want to talk to someone to get it off their chest. So, in that case you can listen to it in the mood of service, so they have someone that they can speak to in confidence. 

Can we get number four?

So, this is also a very important verse—I knew it was there for a reason: guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. That one should inquire confidentiality—one should reveal one’s mind in confidence. So, we need to be able to do that, and suppose I am having an issue with someone and I just need to speak to someone about it. So that person who I speak to has to be confidential, otherwise it will be A tells B, B tells C, and eventually it gets back to the person and it is a disaster. So, for our culture it is essential to have these confidential relationships. Otherwise, as we mentioned, the culture of envy—you just talk bad about others and then we lose this very important part of our spiritual nourishment, because we are afraid the other person won’t be confidential. 

But that point about if one is, if they just want to get it off their chest—they don’t necessarily want to take it further, but they just want to be able to speak to someone. But the others, they may want some action to be taken, and then they should approach someone who is in a position to first of all assess whether intervention is warranted. That is the first thing, because unless our hearts are clean, we may be influenced by envy or pride. So, we may see a fault that is not even really there—or it may be a little something and then our minds are making it much bigger. So, we want to be able to approach someone in confidence who can tell us, “Yes, actually there is a problem there, or actually I don’t really see a problem there, I think it might be more you—it may be something inside of you that is making you see it as something so big.”

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:33:28] 

Giriraj Swami: So, if someone approaches you because they want someone to do something, then you should ask them—do I really need to hear this? Suppose you tell me, where is it going to go from here? And when you say, do I really need to hear this, they might think well yes, do I really need to say this—I could just stop the whole thing. But if it does turn out there is something that requires intervention, then it would be worth speaking to the person’s authority. Then that is someone who can do something about it—it is not idle talk.

Okay, one last question.

Devotee: You mentioned earlier on that it was His Holiness Sridhara Swami’s disappearance day, could you say something about him and his service to Srila Prabhupada please?

Giriraj Swami: Well, His Holiness Sridhara Swami was a very staunch disciple of Srila Prabhupada’s. I mean, I could speak about him for a long time. But we were both together in Juhu and there were two friends—very wealthy people. Actually, both of them were married to daughters of different Birlas—the wealthiest family in India then. So, they gave Maharaja the nickname the Jolly Swami, because he was always jolly and he would always make jokes. So, I will take one incident from the history in Juhu. 

So, in brief, Srila Prabhupada entered an agreement with Mr Nair to buy the land, and then Mr Nair canceled the agreement on some pretext. But Srila Prabhupada had a sense that he should bring the Deities of Radha and Krishna onto the property, because possession is nine tenths of the law. And so, we built a semi-permanent temple, and then, the way things work—maybe it is true everywhere, but maybe it is more open there—so Mr Nair’s wife, after Mr Nair died—so she got some of the insurance money and she used it to bribe the municipal workers and the police, and they came and demolished the temple. Not the little room where the deities were in, but the part in front of it. So, then there was a big campaign to get permission to rebuild it. But the thing is, we already had permission to build it. So, at the right time, somehow it just dawned on us that we don’t actually need permission to rebuild it, because we already had permission to build it. 

So, that was on a Friday, and we decided, we will just rebuild it. And somehow Mrs Nair had her spies and she found out about it. So, she went to the court to get an injunction to stop us from rebuilding the temple, and the judge said, “No, I won’t give the injunction without hearing the other side.” So, she said, “Well, just give a temporary injunction until Monday and then hear the other side and then make your final decision.” And he said, “No, I won’t even give a temporary injunction until Monday.” So, we knew we had until Monday to rebuild it, because once it was rebuilt there would be no meaning getting an injunction to stop us from rebuilding.

So, a number of friends helped with this project, but we had a very staunch devotee there named Mr Sethi. And he definitely had a kshatriya spirit—he was from Punjab; he had a big body also. It was raining really heavily and so anyway, Tamal Krishna Goswami was the GBC and I was the temple president. and Just around that time, Satsvarupa Maharaja visited, and he was my first temple president and I felt he was very humble and I liked his way. And so Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “I want you to stay up all night and make sure that this temple is rebuilt.” And, I don’t know why, but I just sort of blurted out that I really liked Satsvarupa Maharaja who just came and he is so humble, and Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “Your humility will be staying up all night and making sure that this temple gets rebuilt.” And I thought about it, and I thought it is true—if I don’t do the needful, then where is the humility? Humility means whatever you are asked to do, whatever is required. So, I stayed up.

So Mr Nair’s sort of right- hand man in the municipal corporation, he came and he said you can rebuild the temple, but I am going to come with fifty guṇḍās—what is the translation of guṇḍā? Thug. “I am going to come with fifty guṇḍās, and we are going to break the temple down again.” And Mr Sethi said to his son, “Brijmohan, bring my gun and revolver.” And then he said to Mr Maitrai, “Fifty is not enough—I have two hundred and fifty cartridges, so you will have to bring at least two hundred and fifty-one people if you want to tear down the temple.” So anyway, that was the end of that exchange. So, it was really raining and I stayed up all night, and we had a jeep—I mentioned it last night—we had a jeep. And Sridhara Swami, he also stayed up. I don’t remember because there were two nights—I don’t remember if we both stayed up both nights—but he stayed up in the jeep chanting japa. Brijmohan Sethi (the son) went up to him and said, “Maharaja, what are you doing here?” He said, “I am waiting for the guṇḍās to come, and if they come, I am right in the jeep and I am going to run away.” So, he was sitting right in the jeep, right at the edge of the property—“I am going to run away.” That was his sense of humor—both—it showed his staunchness, he was really staying up all night and chanting, but also his sense of humor.