NOI 2, 3 – Secrets of Success and Failure for Individuals and Communities

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. This afternoon we are going to discuss some of the principles for success and some of the principles for failure in Krishna consciousness for us, both as individuals and as communities. The basis of the discussion will be some verses from the Nectar of Instruction – Sri Upadeśāmṛta by Srila Rupa Gosvami, translated by Srila Prabhupada as the Nectar of Instruction, and as we proceed with the discussion you will find that we are focusing on some areas that are very close to home. With your permission I will guide this discussion through a small book called Sri Bhaktya-loka by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. It’s actually twelve essays by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. One essay on each of the six items that are favorable for success in devotional service and one essay on each of the six items that are unfavorable. So, let’s begin with the six items that are favorable. I think I’ll just read through to save time.

NOI 3

utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt

saṅga-tyāgāt sato vṛtteḥ

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati

TRANSLATION

There are six principles favorable to the execution of pure devotional service: (1) being enthusiastic, (2) endeavoring with confidence, (3) being patient, (4) acting according to regulative principles [such as śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam – hearing, chanting and remembering Kṛṣṇa], (5) abandoning the association of nondevotees, and (6) following in the footsteps of the previous ācāryas. These six principles undoubtedly assure the complete success of pure devotional service.

COMMENT

So, out of these six items, we are going to discuss dhairyāt. What does dhairyāt mean?

Devotees: Patience.

Giriraj Swami: Patience, yes.

READING from Sri Bhaktyaloka

For the practitioner of devotional service, dhairyāt, patience, is extremely necessary. Those who possess the quality of dhairyāt are called dhīra.

COMMENT

What does dhīra mean?

Devotees: Sober.

Giriraj Swami: Sober.

READING continued

Those who are impatient cannot do any work.

COMMENT

Now, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is addressing his comments to sadhakas or practitioners of bhakti-yoga. So, whatever he says must be seen in the light of the practice of devotional service. So, when he says, “Those who are impatient cannot do any work,” he is referring to the internal work that devotees do. There are many people who work and they get caught in traffic jams, they may be sitting in the car for an hour, they may be very impatient but they still go to work. [laughter] The work here does not refer to that kind of work, but it refers to the internal work of the sincere practitioner.

READING continued

By the quality of dhairyāt, a practitioner controls first himself and then the whole world.

COMMENT

We will discuss that. Well, I’ll continue reading. It’s actually related to the first verse of the Upadeśāmṛta. Can we see the first verse? Hearing is better than seeing. I’ll just read it.

READING continued

In the first verse of Śrī Upadeśāmṛta the symptoms of dhairyāt are explained:

vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ

jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam

etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

sarvām apīmāṁ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt

“A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind’s demands, the actions of anger, and the urges of the tongue, belly, and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.”

COMMENT

So, this requirement for success in devotional service of dhairyāt or patience is possible when one controls these six urges. In other words, we have to begin by controlling ourselves. Sometimes we think, “If we can control others all my problems will be solved and I don’t have to control myself,” but Srila Rupa Gosvami says, “First you control yourself, your own urges.” So, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, “By the quality of dhairyāt, a practitioner controls first himself and then the whole world.”

Now, this statement calls to mind an incident with Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. As many of you know, Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was the son of Govardhana Majumdar and nephew of Hiranya Majumdar. Those two brothers were extraordinarily wealthy. They collected taxes on behalf of the king and they were allowed to keep something like 50 percent of what they collected, and they collected something like 1,200,000 rupees per month. In those days, a rupee, we are talking about 500 years ago, in those days a rupee, Srila Prabhupada says, “A family could live their whole life on one rupee.” [laughter] That’s how much a rupee was worth then.

So, they were immensely wealthy and Raghunatha dasa was their only son, he was the hope for their future. And they, you could say, pampered him. They didn’t want him to suffer any distress, so they would line the paths around the house with flower petals, and then at each entrance there would be a palanquin to carry him.

So, the Majumdar family had two priests, both were Vaishnavas. Yadunandana Acharya who was the disciple of Advaita Acharya and Balarama Acharya who was a disciple of Haridasa Thakura. And Balarama Acharya arranged a place for Haridasa Thakura in his village. And Govardhana Majumdar thought, “I must get Haridasa Thakura’s blessings for my son.” Whenever there was some saintly person, he would always send Raghunatha to get blessings. So, he sent Raghunatha dasa along with a wagon full of valuable gifts to Haridasa Thakura along with so many servants and guards. And he was thinking, sort of, ātmavan manyate jagat, according to his mentality he was thinking that, “Oh, when Haridasa Thakura sees all these valuable presentations, he’ll give a really good blessing to my son.”

But Haridasa Thakura was not the least interested in anything material. He was not attracted by beauty; even maya devi herself came, he was not attracted by material opulence or wealth. Nothing at all he was attracted to—he didn’t take it seriously. So, Balarama Acharya presented Raghunatha dasa to Haridasa Thakura. Balarama Acharya knew Haridasa’s mentality very well. That he wasn’t going to compromise his blessings on account of all the gifts that Govardhana Majumdar sent. So, Balarama Acharya said that, “Govardhana Majumdar would like you to bless his son.” And just before pronouncing the blessing, because Balarama Acharya knew more or less what the blessing would be. He made a sound so no one could hear the blessing. He coughed or something. [laughter] [cough] [laughter] No one could hear the blessing except for Balarama Acharya and Haridasa. And the blessing was, “I bless you to renounce the world.” [laughter]

So, Raghunatha dasa and all the bodyguards and servants and Balarama Acharya returned to Raghunatha’s home. And his father Govardhana was so anxious to hear that. So, he was asking all the servants and guards, “Did Haridasa Thakura bless my son?” And they said, “We think so.” [laughter] “Well, what blessing did he give?” “Well, we don’t know. There was some sound, we couldn’t hear what the blessing was.” So, then he asked Balarama Acharya. “Yes, he did give a blessing.” “What was the blessing?” He said, “Your son will control the whole world.” And Govardhana Majumdar was so ecstatic, he said, “I’m controlling this whole tract of land here, and I’m so wealthy and my son is going to control the whole world, I can’t even imagine how wealthy he’ll be.”

But actually, there is some truth to what Balarama Acharya said, that if you renounce the world, in other words, if you have no attachment to the world, no worldly desires, that means nothing in the world can control you. You cannot come under the control of lust, anger, greed, or the urges of the mind and senses. By your Krishna consciousness, you can actually affect people. It affects the whole world. So, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, “By the quality of dhairyāt, a practitioner controls first himself and then the whole world.”

READING continued

There are six types of urges; namely, the urges of speech, mind, anger, belly, tongue, and genitals.

COMMENT

And the first is speech, vāco vegaṁ. Whenever I’m chanting japa with His Holiness Ṛtadhvaja Swami and he feels the urge to speak, he checks himself and says, vāco vegaṁ, vāco vegaṁ.

READING continued

With a desire to speak more, a person becomes talkative.

COMMENT

We want to speak more so we become talkative. But there is more explanation required, which follows.

READING continued

If speech is not regulated, then enmity arises from talking about others.

COMMENT

I’ll read it again because this is something that happens. “If speech is not regulated,” in other words, if we cannot control the urge to speak, “enmity arises from talking about others.” I’ll give an example. There are many examples from experience.

So, speaking unnecessarily about others really means finding faults in them. We hear so many things, we read so many things on the internet, there is plenty of information or misinformation available about others. We may see something and so, we’ll say to our confidential friends, pretty much everyone has some confidential friend. We’ll say that, “I know such and such about so and so. I’m telling you because you are my confidential friend, but don’t tell anyone else.” Now, by his behavior he is in effect saying, “Well, he told me and I’m his confidential friend, so I guess it means I can tell my confidential friend.” [laughter] So, he tells his confidential friend, “Don’t tell anyone else,” then he tells his confidential friend, and eventually, it may get back to the original subject of the discussion and thus, enmity arises. And there can also be an enmity that, “Why did you tell so and so, I told you not to tell, about this?” and then it becomes a whole thing, “Who knows and who doesn’t know” and there is different groups of who’s in on it and who’s not in on it, and it becomes very complicated.

So, the thrust of vāco vegaṁ is to control the urge to speak, especially about others. And this is a very important consideration in a community, anywhere. Even in a family, ISKCON is  a large community and it’s a very important urge to control.

READING continued

To speak uselessly is the business of a fool; but out of a desire to engage unnecessarily in speech the materialists always waste time and face so many distresses. Pious people. . .

COMMENT

Not devotees.

READING continued

Pious people observe mauna-vrata, or silence, in order to get rid of this disturbance. The practitioners of devotional service should not speak unnecessarily.

COMMENT

Now, listen to what Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says.

READING continued

If you do have to speak unnecessarily, better remain silent.

COMMENT

In other words, don’t do that.

READING continued

Besides topics regarding Kṛṣṇa, all other topics are unnecessary. But to speak about the subjects favorable to devotional service is not unnecessary.

COMMENT

It’s what we are doing here.

READING continued

Therefore, devotees should speak only on topics about Lord Hari or those favorable to such topics. All other topics will be counted in the category of the urge to speak. One who is able to control the urge to speak is a sober person, dhīra.

COMMENT

So, this sounds very reasonable. Talking about Krishna is accepted and talking about other topics besides Krishna is rejected. But an intelligent and thoughtful person might ask, “How do we live in the world if we can’t talk about other people, other than Krishna and His pure devotees?” So, now we come to Text number two. All these different points are interrelated.

NOI 2

atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca

prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ

jana-saṅgaś ca laulyaṁ ca

ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati

TRANSLATION

One’s devotional service is spoiled when he becomes too entangled in the following six activities: (1) eating more than necessary or collecting more funds than required; (2) over-endeavoring for mundane things that are very difficult to obtain; (3) talking unnecessarily about mundane subject matters; (4) practicing the scriptural rules and regulations only for the sake of following them and not for the sake of spiritual advancement, or rejecting the rules and regulations of the scriptures and working independently or whimsically; (5) associating with worldly-minded persons who are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; and (6) being greedy for mundane achievements.

COMMENT

So, the item that is relevant here particularly is prajalpaḥ, and there are many categories of prajalpaḥ and we won’t discuss all of them. But we will focus on talking about other people.

READING continued

Talking without reasoning about other people, is extremely adverse to devotional service.

Giriraj Swami: What does adverse mean?

Devotees: [Unintelligible 00:29:47]

Giriraj Swami: Contrary to, opposed to. Now, this is important because we may, to some extent, have this tendency to talk about others, so we should consider what is our reason for wanting to talk about others, and if we are honest and introspective, we may find some relevance there.

READING continued

Many people talk about others to establish their own reputation.

COMMENT

In other words, we think that if we make others look bad, we’ll look better in comparison—- very easy trap to fall into.

READING continued

Being envious, some people are accustomed to discuss others’ character.

COMMENT

We may be with some friend and that friend may start to praise some other devotee and we become envious. We don’t want to hear that other person praised and so out of envy we point out some defect, which may be real or imagined. But we point out some defect in the other person to make the other person look bad and, in comparison, to make ourselves look better. Now, what is the result?

READING continued

The minds of those who are busy in such topics can never be fixed on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.

COMMENT

The basic principle of vaidhī-sādhana-bhakti is to always remember Krishna and never forget Him, but if we engage in speaking about others in a negative way, we will never be able to fix the mind on Krishna. In other words, our whole effort in bhakti-yoga will be defeated.

READING continued

Talking about others should be rejected in all respects.

COMMENT

But we have to talk. So, how can we talk without spoiling our devotional service?

READING continued

In the practice of devotional service there are many favorable topics that are faultless, even though they are about others. In order to completely renounce talking about others, one needs to live in the forest.

COMMENT

And, unless you are ready to do that, we will be involved in talking about others, but we have to talk about them in such a way that is faultless and favorable for devotional service.

READING continued

There are two different types of practicing devotees; the householders and the renunciates. Because the renunciates have no business whatsoever with sense enjoyment, they can give up talking about others in all respects. But because a householder is engaged in earning, saving, protecting, and maintaining the family, he cannot completely give up talking about others.

COMMENT

And here Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura will give some advice how householders should live. And even in the grihastha ashram talking about others should be kept to a minimum and we should maximize talking about Krishna or Krishna’s devotees. But this is very important, because it appears that most of us are in the grihastha ashram.

READING continued

It is best for the householder to live in a Kṛṣṇa conscious family. When all one’s material activities are related with Kṛṣṇa. . .

COMMENT

In other words, he is earning, he is saving, he is protecting, he is maintaining the family members. And when all of that is done for Krishna, to engage the family in Krishna consciousness.

READING continued

Then even his unavoidable talk about others becomes sinless and a part of devotional practice in relation to Kṛṣṇa. He should not talk about others in a way that is detrimental to anyone.

COMMENT

It’s not a license to criticize.

READING continued

He should talk about others only whatever little is necessary in his Kṛṣṇa conscious family.

COMMENT

In other words, he doesn’t go down the street door to door and speak to everyone about it, but what he needs to discuss with his family for the sake of the family’s well-being and Krishna consciousness, he can speak with them, whatever really is required.

READING continued

He should not talk about others without reason.

COMMENT

So, this is clear. Now, there is another situation in which one can talk about others. And listen very carefully.

READING continued

When a guru enlightens his disciple on some topic, unless he occasionally talks about others, his instruction may not be very clear. When previous mahājanas have talked about others in this way, there is merit in such talk, not fault.

COMMENT

Because we can say, “You should do this,” and we can give a good example. But it may be helpful to give an example of what you should not do and what the consequences are of doing what you should not do, and that may be necessary for the enlightenment of the disciple. And there are different categories.

1—You talk about a general group, “materialistic households,” we’ll believe that.

2—You speak about a specific person but without mentioning the name. Some people might know who the person is and some might not, but you are actually talking about a specific person, but you are not using the name.

3 – You use their name.

READING continued

As Śukadeva Gosvami said in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam;

nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ

divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā

dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api

teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati

“The lifetime of such an envious householder is passed at night either in sleeping or in sex indulgence, or in the daytime either in making money or maintaining family members. Persons devoid of ātmā-tattva do not inquire into the problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the body, children, and wife. Although sufficiently experienced, they still do not see their inevitable destruction.”

Although Śukadeva Gosvami talks about the materialists in order to instruct his disciple, he is not considered a prajalpī. Therefore, such activities should be considered beneficial.

COMMENT

And then he gives two examples of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. In one case he was speaking about Chota Haridasa, but not by name but, we know, he was talking about Chota Haridasa. Now, it’s going to come even closer to home. I’ll conclude this.

READING continued

Unless one speaks in this way while instructing and while concluding a subject, there is no benefit for oneself or others.

COMMENT

In other words, it has to be clear, and sometimes the negative example is required for clarity.

READING continued

Therefore, the previous acharyas have personally set example and taught others, so how will we be benefitted by acting contrary to their instruction?

COMMENT

That we shouldn’t think we are better than the previous acharyas,—- “see no evil, hear no evil.” Sometimes you need to, as Prabhupada said, “Call a thief a thief.” Now, so far there is not much allowance for talking about others and we might think that this is a little bit restrictive. So, what I’m going to read next might make you think that there is hope. [laughter] Hold on to your seats now. [laughter]

READING continued

And if one discusses in this way [hold on to your seats] the improper behavior current in a religious sect or amongst the general public, then such talk is not averse to devotional service. Even if one sometimes talks about a particular person, there is no fault.

COMMENT

Now, the key provision in this sentence is “in this way.” What does it mean in this way? And I’ll move ahead towards the conclusion, because it’s coming very soon.

READING continued

Those who talk about others while influenced by devotional impediments like envy, hatred, pride, or distinction are offenders at the feet of bhakti devi.

COMMENT

So, this is very important. We may be tempted to speak about others, as said, even in a religious institution, but we should first look within our hearts. Am I being compelled by envy, by hatred, by pride, or by distinction? Because if I am, I should not speak about them. My heart has to be freed from these impediments. Now, sometimes someone may think that someone is misbehaving and someone should do something about it, but if one looks within oneself one might say, “Well, I could be influenced by envy, or hatred, or pride, or the desire for distinction.” So, in that case, we should consult someone who is more clean at heart than we are, and this is a very, very important point.

In the fourth verse, Rupa Gosvami describes ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam, the six exchanges of love among devotees, and two of them are guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, to inquire confidentially and reveal one’s mind in confidence. And, this is very important in the society of devotees. And devotees will feel that they can speak confidentially to others, only if they are satisfied that their confidence will not be betrayed. And many times, it happens that someone will confide in another devotee and then the same thing, “Don’t tell anyone else, but. . .” and pretty soon it’s all over the community. And now, in the internet age, it could be all over the planet. And if we are not able to confide in another devotee, it can be very bad for us, because things will stay inside of us and build up. So, emotionally it will be very bad and just, things will stew inside of us. And practically also it’s not good because, we may actually need clarification. We may perceive a fault in someone, but we know within our heart we are not pure, so we confide in someone who’s more pure at heart than we are and say, “I’ve seen this in that other person, but I don’t know if it’s really there or if it’s just me, if I’m just envious of that person or if it’s really there.” So, that confidential friend or advisor can help clarify what the situation is, or he may say, “What you are seeing is there, I also see the same thing, but I know that devotee’s very sincere and if you give him a little time, he himself will make the adjustment. I have no doubt.”

I mean, there could be any number of such responses, but we need to have those confidential relationships. And it may be that the person needs to be spoken to, and it should be done by someone who’s not influenced by envy, hatred, pride, and so on. As Srila Prabhupada said, “If criticism is offered with sympathy, it is more likely to be accepted.” So, there have been many questions that indicate this type of dilemma that devotees face. So, we need to have these confidential relationships with more elevated devotees.

Alright. So, now we’ll come back to “patience,” because the first topic was “patience” but within that we learn that unless you can control the urge to speak, you cannot be dhīra and you cannot have dhairyāt. This is also very relevant for us.

So, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura gives a very relevant definition of dhairyāt.

READING continued

There is another meaning applicable to the word dhairyāt. Those who engage in sadhana desire to attain the results.

COMMENT

Sometimes as devotees we hear that we should have no desires, we should have no motives, and we should have no ulterior motives, we should have no material designs. But we can desire something. What is that something that we can desire in pure devotional service?

READING continued

Those who engage in sadhana desire to attain the results. Karmis hope to attain heavenly happiness by fruitive activities; jnanis hope to attain liberation by speculative knowledge, and devotees hope to please Krishna by their devotion.

COMMENT

So, we also have a desire and our desire is to please Krishna, which may not be that easy because Krishna is pleased only by pure devotional service. But we can discuss more about that. I’ll continue to read because here is where many devotees have difficulty.

READING continued

Being impatient due to prolonged sadhana, some people fall from the path to the ultimate goal; therefore, a practicing devotee who desires to achieve his goal attains that result only when he becomes patient.

COMMENT

In other words, sometimes we hear devotees say, “I’ve been chanting for so many years, I’ve been reading the books, I’ve been attending the programs, I’ve been offering service and still, my hairs are not standing on end, my limbs are not trembling, tears are not falling from my eyes.” And of course, if those symptoms were there it would certainly be an indication that Krishna was pleased with us, but sometimes people are impatient.

His Holiness Sacinandana Swami  has given an example. Sometimes people may give up the path completely or they may go elsewhere, but he gave the example that, “Okay, I’m in ISKCON and I’m practicing bhakti-yoga and I practiced. . .” just to make it exaggerated, “I practiced for three months and nothing happens.” So, it’s digging in the earth for water. So, he digs a little bit, he doesn’t find water and goes, “Oh, there is nothing here. Let me go to such and such rasika bhakta  and maybe I’ll get it there.” So, he spends another three months there, he goes a little bit down, a little deep, “It’s not there, let me go to the super rasika bhakta to the tenth degree.” And he spends three months there and goes a little deep, doesn’t get anything and leaves. So, Sacinandana Swami  is making the point that if you just stay where you are and patiently go deeper and deeper, eventually you’ll get water. You don’t have to go here and there. Just stay where you are and just go deeper and deeper. Be patient and you’ll get the result.

READING continued

Therefore, a practicing devotee who desires to achieve his goal attains that result only when he becomes patient.

COMMENT

Now, this is what he thinks.

READING from Sri Bhaktya-loka

“Kṛṣṇa must be merciful to me either today or tomorrow or after one hundred years or in some other birth. I will take shelter of His lotus feet with determination and never leave.”

COMMENT

Now this, I’ve never thought of it in this way before but that phrase, “never leave” was included in an instruction that Srila Prabhupada gave me. I approached him way back in 1971 in Calcutta and I said, “Srila Prabhupada, now you are here so everything is going well, but what if in the future when you are not here ISKCON falls from the standard, what should I do?” And he said, and I don’t even know why he said this because I was a really new devotee, which leads me to believe that he replied that to everyone of you, but he said, “You are also an important member of the society, so you work for the correction, but don’t leave.” So, here, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura said;

READING continued

This type of dhairyāt, patience, is most desirable for the practitioners of devotional service.

COMMENT

And that is, that determination that I will go on serving Krishna no matter what, and I’ll patiently wait for His mercy. It may come today or tomorrow or in twenty years or in a hundred years or in some future, but I will never leave.

And here, there is a relevant example also from the pastime of Lord Chaitanya of Mukunda. When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was exhibiting His maha-prakash. . . Do you know what this is? Anyway. He was manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead; this went on for twenty-one hours, and He was fulfilling all of the desires of His devotees, He was giving benedictions to all of His devotees. But one of the prominent devotees in the community was Mukunda and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was not calling Him; He called everyone else but not Him. And Mukunda would not just come in unless Chaitanya Mahaprabhu called Him. So, the devotees were concerned why didn’t Chaitanya Mahaprabhu call Him.

And, I believe, Srivasa Pandita approached Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, “You are calling everyone else and Mukunda is Your dear devotee, why are You not calling Him?” And He said, “I will never call Him. When He is with Mayavadis He agrees with them, talks like them. And when He is with Vaishnavas, He agrees with them, He talks like them.” He said, “It’s like with one hand He is hitting Me on the head with a club and with the other hand He is offering Me a lotus flower. I will never call for Him.”

So, Mukunda, He was just on the other side of the curtain, He could hear what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was saying and He was devastated. He thought, “If I can’t see Mahaprabhu, if Mahaprabhu is rejecting Me, what’s the use of even living?” So, on His behalf, Srivasa Pandita asked Mahaprabhu, “Won’t you ever see Him?” and Mahaprabhu said, “I will see Him after ten million births.” And when Mukunda heard those words, He became so ecstatic, He had so much faith. “The Lord has said that He will accept Me.” Ten million births—- that didn’t count. What mattered was that the Lord will eventually accept Him. And He began to dance in ecstasy. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, being the omniscient Lord, He understood Mukunda’s faith with His words and He called for Him. And Mukunda was in such high ecstasy, He couldn’t even come, they had to carry Him in to Mahaprabhu.

The underlying principle of everything that we are discussing is faith. By that faith and that patience. . . Because of his faith he was patient. That ten million lifetimes, I mean, we are so impatient, we are not even ready to wait three years, ten years. Ten years? I have to keep slogging away for ten years before I get some ecstatic experience? So, what if someone said, “Ten million lifetimes?” “Mukunda, ten million lifetimes!” and he was [Unintelligible 01:05:13]. And by his faith and patience that ten million lifetimes  was reduced to just a few moments, by Mahaprabhu’s mercy.

So, there is much we could say, but I think at this stage I’ll stop. I will come back to one other point in relation to Srila Prabhupada and preaching. But before I do that, I would like to ask you if you have any questions or comments. Yes? Do we have a moving microphone? Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Devotee: Thank you so much for the class. I have one question. If we have this tendency to find faults, how do we purify that tendency? As it comes so naturally? [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Well, one of the qualities of the devotee is adoṣa-darśī, which means he doesn’t see faults. Your question is, “How do we get out of the habit of finding faults?”

So, there was a brahman in Navadvipa who misunderstood Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the Vaishnavas. And so, he criticized him to others. But later on, when he realized who Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was and what the position of the Vaishnavas was, he repented and he approached Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and said, “Out of ignorance, I thought all these things and said all these things. Please forgive me and tell me what I should do.” And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu replied, “With your mouth you have drunk poison, now with the same mouth you can drink the nectar of immortality and that will counteract the poison. So, you have used your mouth to find faults with devotees, so now you should use the same mouth to glorify the devotees.”

And it’s very easy because everyone. . . let us just say for the sake of arguing, everyone has a mixture of good qualities and bad qualities. So, all you have to do is see the good qualities and talk about them, and then your focus will change and the good will become magnified in your consciousness and the bad will become. . . whether it’s there or not, but even if it is there, it will shrink.

Do you think you can do that? I mean, if you are in the situation where you think that the people around you have no good qualities at all, and they have all these bad qualities, [laughter] then you might think that you need to do a little more introspection, but otherwise just see their good. You don’t need to exaggerate and say things artificially. But whatever good you will actually see, you can see good in everyone, because everyone has good and everyone does good; just talk about that and it will make a huge difference. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, one, two, three.

Devotee: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: You talk about patience. Prabhupada made statements that we can go back to Godhead in one life time. How easy is this?

Giriraj Swami: In my experience of devotees leaving their bodies, I feel that all of them have received some special mercy. There were so many of them. So, that definitely gives me hope.

Once, a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, “How can I be sure that I’m really going to go back to Godhead?” and Srila Prabhupada replied by asking, “Are you chanting your sixteen rounds and following the regulative principles?” He said, “Yes.” And he said, “Well, that’s my concern.”

Once, Srila Prabhupada said that Krishna wants His sincere devotees to go back to Godhead in the same lifetime. “If they are not ready, He will give them more time that they were meant to have, in order to enable them to get ready and go back to Godhead in the same lifetime.”

There is a couple of books that I put together. One is called “Many Moons” and it tells the story of Mother Kirtida,  she was a disciple of Tamal Krishna Goswami. She almost died, she was supposed to have died, she was expecting to die and everyone else thought that she would die, but she actually wasn’t ready. She had some fears or attachments, she wasn’t ready. And Krishna let her live for maybe two or three more years and in that time, she became completely ready, perfectly ready. So, when the time of death came, she was not at all afraid, she knew what her destiny should be.

There are many, many such instances. So, Krishna can help. He does help, He does help. But that said, we should also think, “Why do I want to go back to Godhead? Is it to serve Krishna, or is it because I want relief from the miseries of the material existence?” If it’s because we want relief of the material miseries, it’s really a desire for liberation. It is not pure devotional service. But if it’s to serve Krishna in a better way, or in a more suitable way, then it’s good. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: You have been talking about aparādha, so what constitutes an offence? How do we know that knowingly or unknowingly we are committing an offence? Sometimes there may not be an intent. So, what is it that defines an offense to a Vaishnava?

Giriraj Swami: Well, you asked a good question, “What constitutes an offense?” and we can discuss that. In fact, we will discuss that in a few minutes because we should know. But you are saying that you might not intend any offense but the Vaishnava might misunderstand and take offense. And are you aware that that Vaishnava has taken offense, or you might not know?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:17:30] [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Well, if you come to know, then you should approach the Vaishnava and explain.

There is a nice instructive incident, that Rupa Gosvami was in meditation near Govardhana and a devotee or a saintly person with a physical deformity passed in front of him. And within his meditation Rupa Gosvami was seeing a humorous pastime of Krishna, and he began to laugh, but that sadhu misunderstood and thought Rupa Gosvami was laughing at him because of his physical deformity. So, he became very upset and he went to Sanatana Gosvami, Rupa Gosvami’s older brother and śikṣā-guru, and said, “This happened, I can’t believe Rupa Gosvami would do that.”

Meanwhile, Rupa Gosvami’s meditation broke and he also couldn’t understand what happened. He was absorbed in such nice līlā-smaraṇaṁ and he tried to get it back, he couldn’t get it back. So, he went to Sanatana Gosvami to consult him and the two met and then the whole truth came out. And then Rupa Gosvami apologized to that sadhu for unknowingly causing him pain. And that sadhu apologized to Rupa Gosvami for misunderstanding him and thinking he did something bad which he didn’t actually do and then in the end it was all clarified.

So, it can happen that someone misunderstands us, but we should try to clarify it as soon as possible and we should try to have a culture of open dealings with each other, where if someone does have a doubt and instead of speculating, they just approach you. We are like family members, of course, in Kali-yuga even within family there can be walls of silence. We are all spiritual family members and just, “I thought this and I don’t think it’s true, but just for my own mental satisfaction I want to clarify it,” and then it can be disposed of. So, I think we should have that culture where we can speak openly without offence and clarify possible misunderstandings. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: I have a question about going back to Godhead – do we go directly to Krishna-loka?

Giriraj Swami: Well, again, we need to discuss what does it mean to go back to Godhead. Back to Godhead really means, back to our eternal relationship with Krishna. Now, the usual procedure is not a matter of how pure we are, but the usual procedure is that you do take birth on the planet where Krishna is having His pastimes in the material world because there are some higher levels of devotion that you cannot realize within this physical body. I mean, the physical body cannot. . . you read some of the extreme ecstatic symptoms. So, that’s the general rule. You take birth on the planet where Krishna’s having His pastimes and then after that we go to Goloka Vrindavan.

Devotee: In respect to Srila Prabhupada—- how did Srila Prabhupada himself deal with the criticism? And sometimes Srila Prabhupada had to instruct, correct, or criticize, so how did he deal with that?

Giriraj Swami: When you say how Prabhupada dealt with criticism you mean how he criticized?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:23:58]

Giriraj Swami: Okay. Well, as a preacher, Srila Prabhupada had a very great sense of mission and he was a śakty-āveśa-avatāra but a mahā-bhāgavata, he could defeat all the challenges and he did, and there were so many challenges, especially in relation to his accepting devotees from different communities and making them brahmans and sannyasis and like that. So, he would respond face to face, he would respond if there were criticisms in the newspaper, he would respond to the newspaper and sometimes we had to do that.

I have met people and I knew they are not really going to change probably, their criticizing. But I didn’t want to just walk away because then they would think, “Oh, I defeated them, they had nothing to say.”

But yeah, criticism or not, Prabhupada went ahead. He sometimes quoted a, saying, “The dogs may bark but the caravan will pass.” As far as criticizing disciples, Srila Prabhupada said that the one thing he doesn’t like about being a spiritual master is that he has to correct his disciples. And they are all Vaishnavas, so he doesn’t like to have to criticize them. But still, he did it as a matter of duty.

Once, he sent a letter to me in Juhu, in my first month in Juhu. He sent a letter that to me was extremely heavy and, I mean, I accepted the validity of what he said but the impact was just very hard for me to deal with. So, I wrote him and just explained how I was feeling and Srila Prabhupada wrote back that it’s the duty of the spiritual master to criticize the disciple, not that he should always be praising him. And then he quoted Canakya Pandita, that if you just praise a son or a disciple and don’t correct them, he’ll become bad. And Srila Prabhupada wrote, “My only concern is that you and all of my students should become Krishna conscious, so if you find some criticism kindly accept it in that spirit.” So, it was his duty. But he would do it in such a way as to make us understand what he was doing and why he was doing it, for our benefit.

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, if you want to talk about Krishna, there is no too much. [laughter] The residents of Vrindavan can’t stop talking about Krishna. In fact, there is a beautiful verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that paramahamsas who have Krishna within the core of their hearts, take pleasure in speaking about Krishna just like ordinary people take pleasure in talking about women and sex. So, the idea is, whatever you have in the core of your heart, that’s what will come out of your mouth, it won’t take much. So, if you have Krishna in the core of your heart, then that will come out.

And once, it’s a little higher level, but once, Krishna left Vrindavan and went to Mathura and then He sent Uddhava to Vrindavan to deliver His message. So, the gopīs were exhibiting a, sort of, transcendental mood and saying, “If Krishna can live without us, we can live without Krishna.” And Uddhava said, “You keep saying you can live without Krishna, but why are you talking about Him so much?” and they said, “We can live without Him, but we can’t live without talking about Him.” [laughter] So, that’s good, you have so many thoughts about how to spread Krishna consciousness, then you don’t have to worry about it. Does that fit? [laughter]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:31:46] [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:31:51] Oh, well, then you have to fill your mind with Krishna by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ. This is our whole process to fill our mind with Krishna. And Srila Prabhupada gives the example, as it is, you can’t make your mind empty, you can’t empty your mind of material thoughts, but if you fill your mind with spiritual thoughts, then automatically your material thoughts will go. And then that’s what will come out of your mouth. It takes work and it takes patience. [applause]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:32:58]

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. [applause] Now, I’m going to discuss a finer point. So, it’s clear, we should not find fault, with devotees especially. And it may be necessary for us to give bad examples for the sake of clarity.

Now, there may be people who pass as devotees, who actually are not devotees and it’s not a fault to criticize them as a guru, for a good reason, not fortuitously. And Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura discusses different categories of non-devotees. To some extent in Sri Bhaktyaloka and to a greater extent in Śrī Hari-nāma Cintāmaṇi.

And one category of pseudo devotee is the dharma Dhvaji. Dharma means religion and dhvaja means flag. So, dharma Dhvaji is waving the flag or a flag waiver, but he is actually a hypocrite. And anyone who desires bhukti or mukti or siddhi is not a devotee, or not a pure devotee. And a pure devotee may have to point that out perhaps for the benefit of that person, but definitely for the benefit of his followers, so they do not follow the wrong person thinking that the wrong person is a devotee.

Now, Srila Prabhupada had a friend in Bombay, named Dr. Patel, Dr. C. P. Patel, Chatur Paya Patel. And, for those of you who have listened to Srila Prabhupada’s conversations in Bombay, you will know about Dr. Patel. And Dr. Patel was a very maturely qualified person, he was a medical doctor, he knew Sanskrit, he had studied in England at a time when it was quite rare, but more than that, he kept his strict principles. So, he was a little proud and he had a group of friends who sort of looked to him as their leader. And he would walk with Srila Prabhupada on Juhu beach every day when Srila Prabhupada was in Juhu. And sometimes Srila Prabhupada would accuse him of being a Mayavadi and he would say, “No sir, I’m not a Mayavadi, I’m a Vaishnava.” But the way he spoke it was a little hard to tell. Anyway.

One morning, Dr. Patel brought up one of the popular religious figures of India and Prabhupada began to criticize him and Dr. Patel really got upset. I mean, there was a whole discussion, but it built up, escalated, to the point where Dr. Patel was literally shouting at Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada was shouting at him. And Dr. Patel’s friends who usually didn’t interfere, even they were saying, “Swamiji, he has a heart condition, don’t upset Swamiji,” and they were trying to pull them away but he didn’t want to stop. It reminded me of a boxing match, the bell rings, the round is over, but they just keep going and the referee tries to separate them, there are people in their camp, they are trying to pull them away and they just keep at it. It was like that. And finally, he left.

So, afterwards, Tamal Krishna Goswami approached Srila Prabhupada in his room and said, “What is Dr. Patel’s position?” And Prabhupada told the story of an expert speaker of many languages, he came to a town and whatever language you address him in, he would respond perfectly. So, no one could figure out where he actually came from. There was a lot of speculation, they wanted to know where he is really from. So, one man said, “I’ll find out.” So, that man snuck up behind that expert speaker of different languages and gave him a big smack on the back and then he began to curse in his native tongue. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “Dr. Patel was like that, he could speak very expertly in different languages, but when I hit him where it really hurts, his real colors came out.” And then Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “But if that’s the case, why do you waste your time on him?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “We have to engage everyone.” But then Prabhupada said, “Okay, now no more discussions, we’ll just read Kṛṣṇa book,” and then we started just reading Kṛṣṇa book. And for the first time in many years since Prabhupada first came to Juhu, Dr. Patel didn’t come.

So, maybe two or three days later, Prabhupada was walking along near the ocean and Dr. Patel was coming the opposite direction, maybe near the houses. And the way Dr. Patel described it, he wasn’t planning to go to Prabhupada, but the way he described it, something in his heart just forced him to go to Srila Prabhupada. So, he went to Srila Prabhupada, he offered obeisances at Srila Prabhupada’s feet, and he said, “Prabhupada, I’m sorry, but I have been taught to respect all the accredited saints of India.” And Prabhupada said, “Yes, and I have been taught to say who is a saint and who is not a saint.” [laughter] [applause] But they made up.

So, yeah, sometimes you have to do that, and it’s not against the scripture and in fact, Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that if a guru is criticizing someone who’s not a devotee, like a dharma dhvaji, and other people think that he is an offender, then you should avoid the association of that person because they are not seeing it as it is.

So, these are some of the points. So, I think that’s enough, as far as talking, if there are any last questions, we’ll accept that.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. [Unintelligible 01:44:00]

Giriraj Swami: Can you raise your hand? Cause I hear the sound through the speaker so I can see the person. Okay.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:44:09]

Giriraj Swami: Well, what I meant to say, was not that you should have material desires, that it’s alright to have material desires. Your desire should be to serve Krishna and please Krishna. But being a householder, you have to engage in earning and saving and protecting, like that. But the whole goal is that you and all of your family members should become Krishna conscious. But still, as far as balance, yeah, that is a point that we need to. . . of course we are talking about speaking about others, that we should minimize, but if you have to spend time earning and if your earnings are used to support your Krishna conscious lifestyle, then it’s part of devotional service. But we have to be careful of that prayāsaś, over-endeavoring for material things that are very difficult to obtain.

Two or three days ago I visited a doctor’s office in the Washington, DC area and one of the technicians was an Indian lady and we got to talking and she said that her father died and her mother didn’t have anyone else there, so she brought her mother to stay with her in America and her mother just cannot adjust to the materialistic American way of life. She says everyone just wants to earn more money, get a bigger house, get a better car, and just keep on improving their material assets and then they don’t have time for the children. She just really didn’t like the way of life.

And this is one of the obstacles, prayāsaś, over-endeavoring for material things. I mean, there is another story. We seem to be talking about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu quite a bit today.

But Chaitanya Mahaprabhu visited Srivasa Pandita, and after some time, but this is not to be imitated, but after some time He noticed that Srivasa Pandita is not going out to get anything. So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Srivasa, you are not going out. If you don’t go out, how would you get anything? You have a large family, how will you maintain your family now, and in the future?” And Srivasa Pandita replied, “Lord, I have no desire to go anywhere.” He said, “Well, how will your family eat?” And he said, “Whatever is destined, they will get.” And then Mahaprabhu said, “Well, then you should take sannyasa.” And Srivasa said, “Lord, I have no capacity to take sannyasa.” Then, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Then what will you do if no food comes?” Then Srivasa Pandita clapped his hands one, two, three, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu asked, “What does that mean? How does that answer my question?” [laughter] And Srivasa Thakura replied that, “Three times I go hungry, I’ll tie a pot with rocks around my neck and I will drown myself in the Ganges.” And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu roared and said, “Srivasa?! What are you saying?! You go hungry for three times?! Even if the Goddess of fortune has to beg alms, you will never go hungry. You and your family members will not even know what is hunger. And don’t you know my promise in the Bhagavad-gītā?”

So, that’s on a higher level but that’s there, we should be aware of that. But, at least on our side, we shouldn’t neglect our spiritual life for the sake of economic development. If the two can go side by side, and they can go side by side, if it’s not prayāsaś, over-endeavor, then it’s okay. But that’s a good question. Yes, one gentleman, one lady and then another gentleman and then actually, maybe that’ll be enough.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:51:45]

Giriraj Swami: Are you talking about correcting a devotee when he is doing something wrong?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: Okay. So, the first thing is, you have to look into your heart and see are you being influenced by envy, hatred, pride, or distinction. Now, if you feel honestly you are not, then the question is how to approach the devotee and even then, there is a question whether you are the best person or whether someone else might be better. But if you are the best person to do it or maybe the only person to do it, then yeah, you should just speak to them in a very open way. Depends how you want to do it, depends on the relationship. You can invite them over, give them nice prasāda, and fill up the visit with so many nice things that when you bring up that point, it’s a very small part of the whole picture. I mean, there are some people who recommend, appreciate the person a lot, then you criticize them a little, but you appreciate them a lot. [laughter] But, I mean, Prabhupada was expert. He could be quite straightforward, but he was also expert. It’s a very individual matter what the best way to go about it is, but it may be your duty.

And I always pray a lot, “Please make me Your instrument, please allow me to say the right things in the best way.” And then I pray to Krishna in their heart that, “Please don’t misunderstand me, please take this in the right way, please, please come closer to Krishna.” It’s like book distribution. And the same type of prayer goes in the book distribution. Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:55:45]

Giriraj Swami: Oh yes. There are, twenty-six qualities of the devotee and one of those qualities is Krishna-eka-sharanam, which means to take exclusive shelter of Krishna. Now, if one takes exclusive shelter of Krishna, he is considered a Vaishnava and he should not be criticized. And the lack of any one or more of the other twenty-five is not grounds to criticize the Vaishnava. It’s understood that by the one quality of Krishna-eka-sharanam, that gradually all the other good qualities will develop. There are other grounds that are not justified. Criticizing a Vaishnava for his birth in a certain community or criticizing the Vaishnava for sins committed before coming to the association of devotees, criticizing the Vaishnava for sins committed accidentally after coming to the association of devotees and traces of sins even after coming to the association of devotees—- none of those are grounds for criticizing a devotee and if you do, it’s considered an offense, sādhu-nindā.

And to that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that if someone has come to devotional service even if he is not completely free from bad habits, but he is sincerely trying to overcome his bad habits and he has that Krishna-eka-sharanam, he is devoted to Krishna and the process of devotional service, his association should be accepted. He is a devotee whose association should be welcomed. In the back, the corner?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:59:32]

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:59:48]

Giriraj Swami: That is an excellent question. He said that part of our relationships with each other involves revealing one’s mind in confidence and inquiring confidentially and someone might be disturbed by another devotee and come to confide in you, so then what? So, I think that a lot depends on the other devotee’s motivation. They may not really want to criticize the other devotee, but they are just disturbed and they need to tell someone to get relieved.

So, you could, as a service to that devotee, listen to them and let them get it off their chest, but after listening to them and letting them get it off their chest, it could be wise to say a few words to help their perspective of the situation, so that they end up with a more positive view of that other devotee. And if, by chance, the other devotee really does need to be corrected, then that’s another consideration.

There is a lot of, sort of, casual friendships. Even the so-called confidential friendships may be somewhat mundane in some cases. And so, there is a pattern of getting together and talking about others that we have to break. We have to break that pattern and there is different ways of doing it.

One way, there is one really good devotee, a really good book distributor, so whenever anyone would come to her and say, “Did you hear?” And she would immediately say, “Did you hear what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did when He was walking through the Jarikhanda forest? Did you hear that?” [laughter] And then she would go into that discussion. And then they either stay or leave, but either way it was okay. Or even, “Did you hear the wonderful service someone did on saṅkīrtana?” Something of a more worthy topic of discussion. Because it is reciprocal, I mean, it’s an offense to speak and it’s an offense to hear it. So, if without thinking, if they just launch something, you could say, “Do I really need to hear this?” And then they may think, “No. Do I really need to say this?”

Or if it’s been a habit that you get together and discuss others, if you are trying to break that habit but you still have some weakness, you could even say, “I’m a very fallen soul and I actually relish hearing the faults of others, but I know that it’s really bad for me to do that, so please have mercy on this fallen soul and don’t inflict that violence on me knowing my weakness.”

There are different ways but that’s good. Especially if you feel this sincerely, that’s a good one. You are putting them in a higher position when you are asking for mercy. Excellent question.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:05:40] [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: I’m not taking this to be personal, [laughter] although it might be. [laughter] But, there could be two reasons. Sometimes they say that neglect is the worst punishment. It could mean, but not in this case, that he has given up. The other reason. . . there could be other reasons, but sometimes if you want to be corrected, sometimes it’s good to ask, but sometimes you don’t know.

I mean, even with His Holiness Radhanath Swami, I explained the whole situation with him and in my mind, it was clear that I wanted his advice but I didn’t ask for it, I just explained the situation and he was silent and I was silent. I was waiting for him. And then he said, “Would you like my advice, or what would you like?” and I said, “Yes, I would,” and then he gave it. He didn’t want to just presume that I wanted his advice, so then he gave me advice. So, it’s often good to ask.

Once, Srila Prabhupada quoted, “The baby is hungry and the mother wants to feed the baby, but if the baby doesn’t cry the mother won’t feed him.” So, there may be willingness on both sides, but unless the child cries the mother won’t know and the mother won’t think of it. So, I think it’s good to ask. Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:09:24]

Giriraj Swami: Actually, dealing with family members is very important and it may be a large category of people we have to deal with who are not actually devotees. My own advice is that you should not try to preach to her because she is not receptive, but you can preach to her by your example. If she sees that by Krishna consciousness you become humble, you become respectful, you become an eager servant, and you become happy, she’ll think, “Oh, there is something to this.” And if she thinks, “Oh, since he came to Krishna consciousness, he thinks he knows more than everyone else, he is giving everyone lectures,” it might not have a very good effect. [laughter] Many cases are like that, that by our example we preach, by our words we can’t because they may not be ready to hear them, but by our example we preach.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:11:59] [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: And what did they say? [laughter] [applause]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:12:25]

Giriraj Swami: Alright, well, in general, (there can be exceptions), in general it’s hard for parents to take instruction from their children. They think it’s supposed to be the other way around. [laughter] And they are accustomed to that relationship, they don’t want that relationship to change. So, it could be that they can hear the message but not from you. So, if they were willing to come to the temple or some satsaṅga, or some festival or even read a book, I don’t know if they’ll read a book. But one of the offenses is to preach to the faithless, so this could be bordering on that one. You are preaching to them but they don’t have faith in you, so. . . or you can move out. [laughter]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:13:50]

Giriraj Swami: Oh, you did move out. [laughter] [applause] So, the problem is solved. [laughter] [applause] All right, so, thank you for your patience and enthusiasm and yeah, we still have more time together which is a wonderful prospect. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. [applause]