CC Antya 8.1, 8.17–35 – Srila Madhavendra Puri’s Instructive Departure—Failure and Success in Krishna Consciousness

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Today we shall discuss a very instructive incident from the time of Srila Madhavendra Puri’s departure from this world. We have before us two examples; one that shows how a disciple or a devotee should act, and the results that come from it, and another example of how a devotee or a disciple should not act, and the results that come from that. So, we shall read from Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Antya-līlā, Chapter Eight, “Rāmacandra Purī Criticizes the Lord.”

The following summary of the eighth chapter is given by Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in his Amṛta-pravāha-bhāṣya. This chapter describes the history of the Lord’s dealings with Rāmacandra Purī. Although Rāmacandra Purī was one of the disciples of Mādhavendra Purī, he was influenced by dry Māyāvādīs, and therefore he criticized Mādhavendra Purī. Therefore Mādhavendra Purī accused him of being an offender and rejected him. Because Rāmacandra Purī had been rejected by his spiritual master, he became concerned only with finding faults in others and advising them according to dry Māyāvāda philosophy. For this reason he was not very respectful to the Vaiṣṇavas, and later he became so fallen that he began criticizing Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu for His eating. Hearing his criticisms, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu reduced His eating, but after Rāmacandra Purī left Jagannātha Purī, the Lord resumed His usual behavior.

[laughter]

TEXT 1

taṁ vande kṛṣṇa-caitanyaṁ

rāmacandra-purī-bhayāt

laukikāhārataḥ svaṁ yo

bhikṣānnaṁ samakocayat

TRANSLATION

Let me offer my respectful obeisances to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who reduced His eating due to fear of the criticism of Rāmacandra Purī.

COMMENT

I’ll read a few verses just to give you an idea of Ramachandra Puri’s behavior, and then we’ll come to the actual pastime with Madhavendra Puri. But basically, Ramachandra Puri would invite Vaishnavas for prasāda, and then he would induce them to eat more and more and more, which is not unusual. [laughter]

Once, I was invited by some devotees for prasāda in Durban, South Africa with His Holiness Indradyumna Swami, and the way they were serving the prasāda we kept thinking that this was the last preparation. So, we thought, “Okay, well, we’ll eat because the meal is almost over.” And then, they would bring another preparation, “Oh well, this must be the last one,” and they just kept bringing more and more preparations. I was starting to feel quite uncomfortable and I turned to His Holiness Indradyumna Swami and I said, “What do we do?” And he said, “As Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, one should not eat too much or eat too little. Today we are focusing on not eating too little.” [laughter] [applause]

But Ramachandra Puri had a hidden motive, he wanted to find faults in Vaishnavas. And so, after inviting Jagananda, forcing him to eat more and more and more, he rebuked him and said, “I have heard that the followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu eat more than necessary. Now I have directly seen that this is true.”

TEXT 17

The characteristic of Rāmacandra Purī was that first he would induce someone to eat more than necessary and then he would criticize him.

COMMENT

Now, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami explains the history.

TEXT 18

Formerly, when Mādhavendra Purī was at the last stage of his life, Rāmacandra Purī came to where he was staying.

TEXT 19

Mādhavendra Purī was chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes he would cry, “O my Lord, I did not get shelter at Mathurā.”

TEXT 20

Then Rāmacandra Purī was so foolish that he fearlessly dared to instruct his spiritual master.

TEXT 21

“If you are in full transcendental bliss,” he said, “you should now remember only Brahman. Why are you crying?”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: a Brahman realized person is always happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: he neither laments nor aspires for anything. Not knowing why Mādhavendra Purī was crying, Rāmacandra Purī tried to become his advisor. Thus he committed a great offense, for a disciple should never try to instruct his spiritual master.

COMMENT

There are many such statements in the Bhagavad-gītā and in the Upanishads and other scriptures that one should not hanker or lament and certainly, we should not hanker to gain material things or lament over the loss of material things. But the material world is an inverted reflection of the spiritual world and everything that exists in the material world also exists in the spiritual world, but spiritually everything is eternal, full of bliss, and full of knowledge.

So, Madhavendra Puri was lamenting in a humble mood of ecstatic love for being unable to obtain Krishna. That is a very important contribution in our life, and that is to hanker for Krishna in the mood of separation. Part of the mood of separation is that one feels oneself very lowly and fallen and unqualified. So, Madhavendra Puri being on the highest platform felt himself most unqualified, and Ramachandra Puri, being a very fallen disciple, thought himself to be very advanced.

TEXT 22

Hearing this instruction. . .

COMMENT

That he should not lament, that he be happy in Brahman.

TEXT 22

Mādhavendra Purī, greatly angry, rebuked him by saying, “Get out, you sinful rascal!

COMMENT

In Bengali it’s ‘dūra, dūra, pāpiṣṭha’ bali.’

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Rāmacandra Purī could not understand that his spiritual master, Mādhavendra Purī, was feeling transcendental separation. His lamentation was not material. Rather, it proceeded from the highest stage of ecstatic love of Kṛṣṇa. When he was crying in separation, “I could not achieve Kṛṣṇa! I could not reach Mathurā!” this was not ordinary material lamentation. Rāmacandra Purī was not sufficiently expert to understand the feelings of Mādhavendra Purī, but nevertheless he thought himself very advanced. Therefore, regarding Mādhavendra Purī’s expressions as ordinary material lamentation, he advised him to remember Brahman because he was latently an impersonalist. Mādhavendra Purī understood Rāmacandra Purī’s position as a great fool and therefore immediately rebuked him. Such a reprimand from the spiritual master is certainly for the betterment of the disciple.

TEXT 23

“O my Lord Kṛṣṇa, I could not reach You, nor could I reach Your abode, Mathurā. I am dying in my unhappiness, and now this rascal has come to give me more pain.

COMMENT

And he told Ramachandra Puri;

TEXT 24

More mukha nā dekhābi tui, yāo yathi-tathi

tore dekhi’ maile mora habe asad-gati

TRANSLATION

“Don’t show your face to me! Go anywhere else you like. If I die seeing your face, I shall not achieve the destination of my life.

COMMENT

Now, this statement by Srila Madhavendra Puri reminds me of a statement that Srila Prabhupada made. Srila Prabhupada was an ocean of mercy and he practically never rejected anyone.

In fact, there was one incident in Bombay when one disciple was behaving. . . I won’t go into the details, but he was behaving in a very bad way. And Tamal Krishna Goswami. . . Oh, actually, there are two parts to this. Yeah, alright. The first part. That’s right. One of Prabhupada’s early disciples was in Calcutta, and he was smoking hashish. And so, the temple President didn’t know what to do. So, he phoned Srila Prabhupada who was in Bombay, from Calcutta, and asked. . . It’s very unusual to phone Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada didn’t directly take the call, but his secretary took it and relayed the message. The temple President was asking what to say because it was such a senior disciple, and Srila Prabhupada said, “Tell him that if he doesn’t stop smoking ganja, I will reject him.”

And after the phone call some devotees asked Srila Prabhupada, “Is it true that you would reject him?” and Srila Prabhupada said, “No, I cannot reject anyone.” And then Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “But don’t you have to draw the line somewhere?” and Srila Prabhupada said, “The mercy of Lord Nityananda has no limits.” So, that was Srila Prabhupada’s mood.

But once, one of his disciples who was his personal servant left and then after some time, he came back to see Srila Prabhupada, but he was in a different mood. And he said to Srila Prabhupada, “I never really liked Krishna consciousness, never really liked the devotees, so I left.” Srila Prabhupada replied, “Good. I’m glad you left. Now I don’t have to look at your gross face anymore.” [laughter] So, of course, on a deeper level Prabhupada wasn’t glad that he left, but because he was saying in effect, “I didn’t like your company,” that’s what he was saying, so Prabhupada reciprocated, “Well, good, we didn’t like your company either.”

Anyway, “Don’t show your face to me! Go anywhere else you like. If I die seeing your face, I shall not achieve the destination of my life.”

TEXT 25

“I am dying without achieving the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore I am greatly unhappy. Now this condemned foolish rascal has come to instruct me about Brahman.”

TEXT 26

Rāmacandra Purī was thus denounced by Mādhavendra Purī. Due to his offense, gradually material desire appeared within him.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The word vāsanā (“material desires”) refers to dry speculative knowledge. Such speculative knowledge is only material. As confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.14.4), a person without devotional service who simply wants to know things (kevala-bodha-labdhaye) gains only dry speculative knowledge but no spiritual profit. This is confirmed in the Bhakti-sandarbha (111), wherein it is said:

jīvan-muktā api punar yānti saṁsāra-vāsanām

yady acintya-mahā-śaktau bhagavaty aparādhinaḥ

“Even though one is liberated in this life, if one offends the Supreme Personality of Godhead he falls down in the midst of material desires, of which dry speculation about spiritual realization is one.”

COMMENT

So, we’ve been discussing speaking about others, vaco-vega, controlling the urge to speak and understanding the subtleties of vaiṣṇava-aparādha. And as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, “One who speaks unnecessarily about others will not be able to fix his mind on Krishna and he is an offender against the lotus feet of Bhakti-devi.” And here, we are seeing a practical demonstration. And the result of committing offenses is that one develops material desires. One can become filled with material desires, which of course, will take us the opposite direction.

PURPORT (continued)

In his Laghu-toṣaṇī commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.2.32), Jīva Gosvāmī says:

“Even if one is liberated in this life, he becomes addicted to material desires because of offenses to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

A similar quotation from one of the Purāṇas also appears in the Viṣṇu-bhakti-candrodaya:

“Even liberated souls sometimes fall down to material desires, but those who fully engage in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead are not affected by such desires.”

These are references from authoritative revealed scriptures. If one becomes an offender to his spiritual master or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he falls down to the material platform to merely speculate.

COMMENT

So, on Friday we discussed the mad elephant offense, which is vaiṣṇava-aparādha or in particular, guru-avagya. And Lord Chaitanya advised that one should protect the devotional creeper by fencing it all around. And what is the fencing?

Devotees: [Unintelligible 00:24:39]

Giriraj Swami: The circle of pure devotees, we should stay within the circle of pure devotees, and that will protect us. And, of course, there are many ways of seeing Ramachandra Puri’s fallen condition, but it appears that he had no real good association, that he was just wandering here and there according to his fancy.

TEXT 27

One who is attached to dry speculative knowledge has no relationship with Kṛṣṇa. His occupation is criticizing Vaiṣṇavas. Thus he is situated in criticism.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura has explained in his Anubhāṣya that the word nirbandha indicates that Rāmacandra Purī had a steady desire to criticize others. Impersonalist Māyāvādīs, who have no relationship with Kṛṣṇa, who cannot take to devotional service, and who simply engage in material arguments to understand Brahman, regard devotional service to Kṛṣṇa as karma-kāṇḍa, or fruitive activities. According to them, devotional service to Kṛṣṇa is but another means for attaining dharma, artha, kāma and mokṣa. Therefore they criticize the devotees for engaging in material activities. They think that devotional service is māyā and that Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is also māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. Such a mentality awakens in a person who is an offender to Kṛṣṇa and His devotees.

COMMENT

So, there are people in the guise of Vaishnavas, who are actually Mayavadis. Srila Prabhupada described them; Lord Chaitanya is “path,” but Sankara is “maths.” Sankara’s “maths”  is one plus one equals one. In other words, the living entity merges with the Supreme Brahman and becomes one, and the only antidote for that offensive mentality is to become the humble servant of the servant of the servant of a Vaishnava.

So, as we discussed yesterday, although one should not speak about others, sometimes a guru will speak about others to make his point clear. And therefore, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami is speaking about Madhavendra Puri. He is giving a negative example for us. And now he’ll give the positive.

TEXT 28

Īśvara Purī, who became the spiritual master of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, performed service to Mādhavendra Purī, cleaning up his stool and urine with his own hand.

TEXT 29

Īśvara Purī was always chanting the holy name and pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa for Mādhavendra Purī to hear. In this way he helped Mādhavendra Purī remember the holy name and pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa at the time of death.

TEXT 30

Pleased with Īśvara Purī, Mādhavendra Purī embraced him and gave him the benediction that he would be a great devotee and lover of Kṛṣṇa.

TEXT 31

Thus, Īśvara Purī became like an ocean of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa, whereas Rāmacandra Purī became a dry speculator and a critic of everyone else.

TEXT 32

Īśvara Purī received the blessing of Mādhavendra Purī, whereas Rāmacandra Purī received a rebuke from him. Therefore, these two persons, Īśvara Purī and Rāmacandra Purī, are examples of the objects of a great personality’s benediction and punishment. Mādhavendra Purī instructed the entire world by presenting these two examples.

COMMENT

In 1996, my material father became very sick and was suffering from cancer and was being treated in a hospital in Chicago, and the family felt that someone should always be with him and that someone should spend the night with him. My father had only two children, and my sister had to take care of my mother and her young son, so I was the logical choice to be the one to stay with my father.

So, there was a sofa in my father’s hospital room, and so I was spending the night on the sofa, not a very plush one but it was fine, it was adequate. And, my father’s condition was such that he was unable to get out of bed on his own strength, so if he had to get out of bed, I had to help him. Quite frequently, because of the cancer, he had to go to the bathroom, so I would have to help him from the hospital bed, across the room to the bathroom, and sometimes he would make it in time, and sometimes he wouldn’t, and when he didn’t, I would clean up.

Of course, it was exhausting emotionally. It was also exhausting physically because I was in such a state of vigilance, if I heard a sound I thought, “Oh, it might be my father who might need my help,” and so I couldn’t sleep. And if, by chance, I was able to doze off, very soon I would hear some sound and I think, “Oh, it might be my father,” and many times it was. So, I was completely exhausted. It was a struggle; it was a very difficult time. And then, around dawn, when you can see some light through the window shade, my father sort of asked me to come to his bedside. It was a hospital bed. And he said, “What would you do if I gave you a million dollars?” So, I really had no thought of that, but he asked, so I said something, and that was the end of the discussion.

Now, coincidentally, His Holiness Radhanath Swami was also in Chicago at the time and, in fact, he was scheduled to visit me on. . . Excuse me, not at that time, not at that particular time but later when my father actually came to the stage of leaving his body, His Holiness Radhanath Swami was in Chicago. He was to visit me on a Sunday, he was going to drive up, but the nurse who was attending to my father at home said that the signs are there that he is going to be leaving. So, I phoned Radhanath Swami and I told him, “It looks like my father would be leaving very soon, so maybe come in a few days.”

So, yeah, my father left that night and His Holiness Radhanath Swami came maybe three days later, and I related to him the incident of my taking care of my father in the hospital, cleaning up the stool and the urine, just giving myself fully to his care and how at the end of the night he said, “What would you do if I gave you a million dollars?” And Radhanath Swami says, “Just like Madhavendra Puri and Isvara Puri. Madhavendra Puri wanted to give Isvara Puri the greatest treasure he possessed, which was the ecstatic love of Godhead, it’s spiritual and your father wanted to give you the greatest treasure he possessed according to his conception, which was money, but that was his way of reciprocating. He wanted to reciprocate.” I’d actually had the same thought myself but I didn’t say it to His Holiness Radhanath Swami. Radhanath Swami himself had the same thought. Of course, well, in my own way I did try to help my father become Krishna conscious, but it wasn’t on the same level as Isvara Puri and Madhavendra Puri.

But we can see the type of service that Isvara Puri rendered, that on the physical platform he served like a menial servant, personally cleaning up the stool and the urine, and spiritually he would recite verses and sing songs about Krishna to enhance his spiritual master’s remembrance of Krishna at the end. And, of course, that’s the goal, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ, to remember Krishna at the final moment.

So, this is an example of how we can serve each other as devotees. We have discussed how we can serve each other physically and emotionally and spiritually and, especially, as the devotee approaches the time of death, everything is more critical. Of course, we never know when we will die and therefore every moment is critical, really, but when we know that death is approaching everything is critical, and we can render a very special service to devotees at that time, and they can bless us. Every Vaishnava is in a position to give blessings. And certainly, if we serve them in this way, we can get their blessings.

I’ll just read a little bit more.

TEXT 33

His Divine Grace Mādhavendra Purī, the spiritual master of the entire world, thus distributed ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa. While passing away from the material world, he chanted the following verse.

TEXT 34

ayi dīna-dayārdra nātha he

mathurā-nātha kadāvalokyase

hṛdayaṁ tvad-aloka-kātaraṁ

dayita bhrāmyati kiṁ karomy aham

TRANSLATION

“O My Lord! O most merciful master! O master of Mathurā! When shall I see You again? Because of My not seeing You, My agitated heart has become unsteady. O most beloved one, what shall I do now?”

TEXT 35

In this verse Mādhavendra Purī teaches how to achieve ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa. By feeling separation from Kṛṣṇa, one becomes spiritually situated.

COMMENT

Now, this verse is discussed in detail earlier in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and although the words seem simple enough and clear enough, but the deep purport could be understood by only three persons. Who are the three persons? This is not speculation; I’m just asking for you to think. Who do you think the three persons are who could understand the deep purport of Srila Madhavendra Puri’s words? Raise your hand. Sorry?

Devotee: Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, one is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

Devotee: Srimati Radharani.

Giriraj Swami: Yes! Srimati Radharani. And three?

Devotee: Srila Madhavendra Puri.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Madhavendra Puri. No fourth person understands fully the deep meaning of the verse. And it’s described that the more one considers the verse, the more its meanings come out. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, it’s like rubbing sandalwood, more fragrance comes out.

And these deep moods have been revealed to us first by Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami in Bengali, and to us, in English, by Srila Prabhupada. By his efforts and his disciples’ cooperation, his books have been translated in many languages. So, we are being given access to very deep profound spiritual sentiments and moods. It really is as Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja says, it is by such feelings of separation that one becomes spiritually situated. And to feel separation there has to be some attachment. If there is no attachment for someone, you won’t feel separation. There has to be attachment. And, of course, our goal is to transfer our attachment to Krishna and His pure devotees.

I have one little experience of my own, not on a very high level, but it does illustrate the point. One year, I went to spend maybe two weeks on the island of Saint Lucia in the Caribbean with a nice Vaishnava couple Dharmaraja and Prema Manjari and their two daughters. And it’s a long story because there was a hurricane. . . but anyway. And then, somehow, Ṛtadhvaja Swami saw on the news that there was a hurricane in Saint Lucia and not only all the flights were canceled, the airport was shut down. And somehow, he had the foresight, because he knew my passport name, to try to book me on a flight. And we couldn’t do anything, all the phone lines were down. . . and he did, otherwise I could have been stuck there for quite a while.

The drive from our host’s home to the airport was quite scenic. I’ve driven that way a number of times and I was usually. . . I mean, I would have my hand, it might be in my bead bag reciting the maha-mantra. At the same time, I couldn’t really help but notice the scenery, some of the billboards. . . But that day, I was feeling so much separation from having to leave and also it was a wonderful facility, I was able to do a lot of chanting, a lot of reading, a lot of writing. So, I was feeling separation from the family, from my service there. And in that mood of separation, I had no interest in the scenery, in the shops, in the billboards, but I just shelter of the holy name.

So, feelings of separation are really necessary. Feelings of separation from Krishna and His pure devotees. And those feelings should be put into taking shelter of Krishna and the pure devotees through the chanting of the holy names. Any way, we take shelter of them through scripture, through following their instructions, and that way we can feel their association. And for us who come to this retreat, we’ve gotten a lot of association to different degrees. We now will be in separation, but that’s also not bad. It’s not bad actually, it’s good. Especially, if those feelings of separation make us want to take more shelter of Krishna and His pure devotees through bhakti-yoga.

Because of lack of time and because of the mood of the retreat, I didn’t have the opportunity to speak of the spiritual counterpart to all of these so-called defects. Hankering and lamenting really exists spiritually.

And in that discussion of dhairyāt or patience, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that one who controls these six urges can develop dhairyāt, or patience, and he also says that there are six of what we usually consider enemies; kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, and mātsarya. And he quotes Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who says that if we can dovetail these six enemies in devotional service then we can attain dhairyāt. I know them, but it’ll be nicer if I read them. I won’t use the Bengali. It’s from Prema-bhakti-candrikā.

Narottama dasa Thakura: “I will engage lust, anger, greed, illusion, madness, envy, and pride in appropriate ways, and by defeating these enemies I will feel happiness in my heart as I peacefully worship Govinda. I will engage lust by offering it in Krishna’s service.”

Giriraj Swami: Lust or kāma means desire, so we can dovetail kāma by desiring to serve Krishna, by desiring things for Krishna’s pleasure. A simple example Srila Prabhupada gave; An ordinary boy who’s in love with a girl will see a nice flower and think, “Oh, I can give this flower to my girlfriend,” and a devotee who is developing  love for Krishna will say, “I can offer this flower to Krishna.”

Narottama dasa Thakura: “Anger I will direct towards those who are envious of the devotees.”

Giriraj Swami: You have to be careful about that one. [laughter] It should be done, in other words, not in an uncontrolled way, I mean, that’s the basic principle to keep our urges under control. But it can be in Krishna’s service.

I think of one incident that took place at the first Delhi pandal. At that time, we had the LIC grounds, a really prominent location, and every day probably 30,000 people came, maybe more. And there were a number of political leaders who were coming and doing service, supporting the effort, even making announcements, and one disciple said to Srila Prabhupada, “These politicians really want to get votes by being associated with us. They feel these huge numbers of pious people who are coming will vote for them if they are associated with us.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “If someone takes advantage of us and by their doing so, we don’t lose, then we don’t mind.” So, he understood their motive but he didn’t mind because we weren’t losing.

So, one evening Srila Prabhupada did something extraordinary. I mean, everything he did was extraordinary, but this was extra extraordinary. A hooligan came to the front of the stage. By hooligan I mean. . . I don’t really know if he was Australian but he, [laughing] he had a very muscular build, he had long flowing hair, and he had leather belts and chains and he was very wild looking and with tattoos. Respectable people don’t have tattoos.

So, as he was approaching the stage, Prabhupada’s disciples became concerned and they were ready to, sort of, push him back or escort him away. And Srila Prabhupada said, “Let him come,” so he climbed up onto the stage, and Prabhupada said, “Give him asana.” Alright, so devotees gave him a cushion. And Prabhupada said, “Give him a microphone, put a microphone in front of him,” and he immediately challenged Srila Prabhupada. He said. . . There were a few challenges but one was, “How old is the Bhagavad-gītā?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Its most recent rendition. . . 5,000 years.” And then the boy said, “Well, according to my sources. . .” and then he came up with this whole theory about how old the Bhagavad-gītā was. Prabhupada said, “That’s nonsense.” [laughter] So, it was going on like this. And finally, the boy, he asked the question and Prabhupada said, “No, I want to ask you a question now. What is the process for understanding Bhagavad-gītā?” and the boy said, “No, you answer my question. I asked you first.” Prabhupada said, “I’m not your servant, I don’t have to answer your question. You answer my question; “What is the process for understanding the Bhagavad-gītā?” And it became a huge argument and then Prabhupada motioned, “Okay, you can remove him now.” [laughter] So, big strong disciples came and lifted him up and took him off the stage and escorted him away.

Now, this incident created a huge uproar in the audience. In fact, the audience became polarized. There were those who sided with the boy, I say “boy,” young man, and there were those who sided with Srila Prabhupada. And those who sided with Srila Prabhupada, they remained in their seats to hear what Srila Prabhupada would say. And the other ones were very agitated and a lot of them left their seats and at the time I was at the audience distributing books, and they started to surround us and they were saying, “Your Guru Maharaja should have answered his question, your Guru Maharaja got angry. . .” He didn’t exactly really get angry, but he did make his position clear. And so, it was a very volatile situation so I, and some of the others that were in the audience, started to make our way towards the area of the stage.

And these politicians, one of them in particular, he was very upset because he was associating himself with Srila Prabhupada and the program to become popular and get votes. And now. . . [laughter] Half the audience was in arms. So, sort of behind the stage, this politician, he was very upset and said, “Your Guru Maharaja has just ruined everything.” And Mother Malati was there. I hope you don’t mind my quoting your. . . And Mother Malati was there. And she said, “My Guru Maharaja has not spoiled anything,” and she slapped him. [laughter] [applause] And in my mind this is a perfect example [laughter] of dovetailing anger. [laughter] [applause]

And then Srila Prabhupada proceeded to explain what is the method for understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, and he had actually used the example of the young man to show what the process is not. In other words, you can’t challenge the authority or the representative of Krishna who is coming in paramparā. And he was quoting all sorts of crazy things, certainly not from paramparā.

So, then afterwards, yes, Srila Prabhupada was staying in a house and some maybe American young man had come to the path and he was very inspired, extremely inspired. He got the address and he came to the house to meet Srila Prabhupada. He was very eloquent and he said that if Krishna consciousness spreads all over the world, everyone will come to love each other and therefore no more hatred or anger. And Srila Prabhupada said, “Anger? Is there something wrong with anger? Did anyone tell you, there is something wrong with anger?” And then he said that Krishna spoke the whole Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry, [laughter] because Arjuna was not willing to fight and Krishna wanted him to fight and kill. You can’t fight and kill unless you are angry. So, Krishna spoke the whole Bhagavad-gītā to make Arjuna angry.

So, there has been a lot of discussion about avoiding anger and certainly we shouldn’t direct anger towards devotees unless like Prabhupada. There may be some anger for the sake of removing an obstacle in a devotee’s spiritual life. Material anger arises when one’s lust and one’s material lust is frustrated. So, if one’s desire to serve Krishna is frustrated due to some obstacle, one can use one’s anger to remove that obstacle. That obstacle can be external or internal. I mean, within the heart. But it’s always controlled, it’s always controlled.

But we should not have a sort of vague sentiment or conception of what Krishna consciousness is. Krishna is a person and we are persons and every sentiment that exists in the material world exists in the spiritual world in its pure unadulterated form and the process of bhakti-yoga means that we realize ourselves fully as spiritual persons. And that means that we have every sentiment that Krishna has, every sentiment that anyone has, except that the center is Krishna and only Krishna and love for Krishna. So, many of these things and H.H Radhanath Swami has been emphasizing, we need superior guidance for and we shouldn’t just sort of lose our temper out of frustrated lust. I am dovetailing my. . . you are actually envious of devotees and Narottama dasa Thakura says you should get angry at those who are enemies of devotees. So, we can’t be that foolish, but we do need to become fully self-realized, which means every sentiment that is there in Krishna which is every sentiment. . . is there in ordinary condition souls and it can be purified and engaged in the service of Krishna and the devotees.

I just am very grateful for having had this opportunity to be here and, I’m very hopeful about the future of the Krishna consciousness movement. Seeing so many of you, seeing the youth, I think we call them youth. Maybe I should say the next generation. Some of them aren’t that young, not that old, but not that young. Yeah, it’s very exciting and encouraging and we are all part of it. I feel by Prabhupada’s grace and the devotees’ grace, we are all part of it and we should give everything we can. Last night His Grace Gauravani Prabhu quoted a holy Indian saying, that we are the people we’ve been waiting for. And the idea is we may be waiting for some messiah to drop out of the sky, but actually, we are the people we’ve been waiting for, we just have to rise to the occasion.

And so, the purpose of these wonderful festivals is to encourage and inspire us to rise to the occasion and to give us some good instructions that will help inform us in the process of rising to the occasion. So, I thank you very much and I’ll be hoping to be seeing more of you today, tomorrow, eternally. As Srila Prabhupada said, “We’ll have another ISKCON in the spiritual sky.” [laughter]

And he wrote this in a letter to one devotee who was having difficulty in some of his relationships with the other devotees and Srila Prabhupada wrote, “We’ll have another ISKCON in the spiritual sky and you will go and then he mentioned another devotee, there might have been a little conflict with, that. . . he will go and then again, another one, he will go. . .” and then he said, “But Mr. Nair? He will not go.” [laughter] And, actually, that devotee had met Mr. Nair very early, but yeah, he said, “You will go and Shyamasundara will go and everyone will go, but only Mr. Nair, he cannot go.” [laughter] By Prabhupada’s grace we may also go in some life time, so [laughter] thank you very much. Hare Krishna.