BG 18.54 – Real Service Gives Permanent Satisfaction

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: It is a great pleasure for me to be here again after so many decades. I passed the train station on the way here, and I did remember the train station. And of course, the temple building. Yesterday, I spoke about my spiritual journey, the beginning of my spiritual journey on the request of some devotees, and some devotees also requested me to continue the discussion today. The journey in and of itself may have some interest, but the important point is what we can learn from the journey, which we can apply in our own lives. Because there are certain universal principles that are recorded in the words of sadhu, shastra, and guru. And we should know those principles and apply them in our lives.

One principle is that we must associate with devotees. Without the association of devotees, we cannot take up devotional service. In Lord Chaitanya’s instructions to Srila Rupa Gosvami, He stated:

TEXT 151

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja        [Cc Madhya 19.151]

COMMENT

The living entities are wandering throughout the universe or throughout many universes according to their past activities. But when one is fortunate by the grace of guru and Krishna, one gets the seed of devotional service. And then, according to Lord Chaitanya, one should become a gardener—a mālī, and plant the seed within one’s heart, and water the seed by chanting and hearing about Krishna. Furthermore, one should protect the tender creeper of devotional service from wild animals who might come into one’s garden and trample the creeper or uproot the creeper. So, one should fence the creeper all around. And the fencing is the circle of pure devotees. So, the association of pure devotees is essential.

Lord Chaitanya also says that alongside the devotional creeper, weeds may grow. The weeds of material desire or the desire for impersonal liberation. And Lord Chaitanya says that those weeds may very closely resemble the creeper of devotion. One must be very alert and vigilant and detect if any such weeds enter and keep them apart from the devotional creeper or uproot them, really. And even then, the association of devotees is very important because the weeds are subtle and we may not be able to detect them if we are on our own. But in the association of devotees, we can see more clearly what is what. And if we are somehow blinded, they can open our eyes with their instructions.

So, in terms of my story, I had been looking for a guru. Actually, my goal was perfect happiness, but I had concluded that one could not achieve perfect happiness in material life. And therefore, I needed to take up a spiritual practice that would lead me to a higher consciousness. And that in order to take up the practice, not just take it up but find out what it is, then take it up and follow it to the goal, I needed a guru.

And over a period of time, I met many of the gurus and masters who had come to America from India, and also others. There were also local gurus, who were American, who had come in touch with masters or teachers from Japan or India. And they were teaching what they had learned from their masters. But I was not satisfied with any of them.

And then finally, by Krishna’s grace, I met Srila Prabhupada in Boston. And he was different from all the others because all the others were impersonalists of one sort or another. No one besides Srila Prabhupada had taught that God is a person, and you are also a person eternally. And your position and your perfection is to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

And I’ve met many Indians in America who came to Krishna consciousness in America. And they said the same thing, that Srila Prabhupada was the only one who gave a clear conception of God; Who is God? Who are the demigods, and what is the method for developing our eternal relationship with God? And many have said that it would have been very hard for them to come to Krishna consciousness if they had stayed in India.

And in fact, when they go back to visit, they have a difficulty with their family members and friends. Because they come back and no eating meat, fish or eggs, or even onions or garlic, no taking of intoxicants, including coffee and tea, and no gambling, and other things. And their family members and friends in India, they thought, You are going to America, we thought you would become more expert in these things and teach us. And now you are not even touching them. 

So, Srila Prabhupada’s contribution is monumental on both sides of the ocean. So, coming back to my journey; Srila Prabhupada came and gave a talk at my University in Boston. And then, the next night, I went to the temple. And then, I understood that he was my guru. He is not like the others. And then every night, I would come to hear him speak. His program was Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at the temple. And Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, outside. Usually, at a university, but sometimes in other places. And then, the Sunday Feast.

So, internally, that was my goal, to achieve perfect happiness, and externally, my goal was to do good for others. So, after hearing Srila Prabhupada speak for a few days, I asked a question, “You have been telling us about service to God, but what about service to man?”

And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Why are you and others coming here? You are coming because you are getting something.” And then he said, “What is service? Service means to relieve the suffering of another person. Someone may be hungry and you might feed him. But in a few hours, he’ll be hungry again. But if you give someone Krishna consciousness, all of his problems are solved permanently.”

And he told the story of Dhruva Maharaja. Dhruva Maharaja, as many of you may know, was the son of a king. And when he was playing on the lap of his father, his stepmother, who was the king’s favorite, rebuked him, “You cannot sit on the throne. You are not born from my womb.” And the king was so attached to the co-wife that he sided with her and took Dhruva off of his lap, which was very cruel.

So, Dhruva went to his mother and explained what had happened. And his mother said, “Your father favors your stepmother, and I don’t think I can do anything to help you.” So, then he said, “Well, who can help me?” And she said, “I think only God can help you.” “Where is God?” “I don’t know, but many sages and saintly persons go to the forest to find God. So, maybe you can find Him there.”

So, Dhruva went, and in his own way as a boy of five years, he was looking for God. He was looking in the bushes, looking behind the trees, looking under the stones and logs. And so, God, within Dhruva’s heart, understood, “He is very serious to find Me.” So, Krishna sent a guru, Narada Muni. From within the heart of Narada Muni, Krishna dictated to him that he should go and instruct Dhruva. And when he found Dhruva, he instructed him, “You are just a child. You shouldn’t be taking things so seriously. You should go home and play and enjoy like other boys of your age. And then, maybe when you are older, you can look for God.”

And Dhruva Maharaja said, “If you can help me find God, it’s very good. But if you are going to tell me to go home, then you can go home.” He was very determined. And you could say he passed the test of the spiritual master. As Srila Prabhupada said, “One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master.”

So, Narada instructed him to chant the holy name, and there are many details. And after some months, Dhruva’s desire was fulfilled. And the Lord came to him and asked him to accept some benediction. And Dhruva replied, “My Lord, I’m completely satisfied. I don’t want any benediction.” And the Lord said, “Well, what about your kingdom?” And Dhruva said, “That kingdom was just like a piece of broken glass. And now, I’ve gotten You, who are the most valuable jewel. So, I’m millions of times more satisfied.”

And then, Srila Prabhupada said that this is service, to give someone something that makes him so satisfied that he has no other desire. And Srila Prabhupada told the story of Alexander the Great. When he came to India, there was a saintly person sitting in meditation. And Alexander the Great was very impressed. And he said, “I can give you anything, whatever you want.” And that saintly person said, “I want only one thing, just step to the side because you are blocking the sun.” In other words, he was so satisfied internally, there was nothing anyone could give him, not even Alexander the Great.

So, this is real service. That’s what Srila Prabhupada was saying. And he said that when you get Krishna consciousness, you are so satisfied, no more cheating. And he used the word, “No more pickpocketing.”

Now, although I was basically an honest person and prided myself on being honest, but I did have one weakness. One of my friends had told me about not exactly pickpocketing but shoplifting. And he was saying, “You just go in the shop and just see something.” They didn’t have all the sophisticated security then that they have now. “And you just put it in your pocket or put it in your bag.” It was pickpocketing. And when Srila Prabhupada said, “No more pickpocketing,” I thought, Oh my God, why did he use that word? That’s what I do. But then, I thought, Well, that’s good, because if I become Krishna conscious, I’ll be so satisfied, I won’t do that.

So, internally, I understood that this was going to make me completely happy and satisfied. And externally, I understood that this was going to be the best way to serve others. So, I was satisfied.

So, some days passed, and then one day, when I came to the temple, there was a lot of activity. And I asked the devotees, “What’s happening?” And they said, “Srila Prabhupada is leaving.” And I didn’t know that Srila Prabhupada would leave. I came to Krishna consciousness, he was there. I just assumed that he would always be there. I said, “He is leaving?” He said, “Yes. He has many centers and he travels from one center to the other. We are getting ready to go to the airport. Do you want to come with us?” “Yes, I do.”

So, at the airport, I saw that almost all the devotees were crying. And so, I asked Arundhati, who was one of the devotees to whom I could speak too easily, and she replied that Srila Prabhupada had said that on the absolute platform, meeting and separation are the same. Both are occasions of transcendental ecstasy. And that sounded like a good answer. But I wasn’t completely sure if it was practical. But it did sound like a perfect answer.

So, we were all at the gate, and Srila Prabhupada boarded the aircraft. And the devotees waited. They were looking out the window. And I asked Arundhati, “Why are the devotees waiting?” And she said, “Srila Prabhupada said when the spiritual master leaves, the devotees should watch the airplane until it completely disappears in the sky and the last traces of the fuel are gone. Just like when Krishna left Vrindavan, the gopīs watched the chariot until it completely disappeared in the distance.”

So, up until then, I thought everything about Krishna consciousness was perfect; perfect philosophy, perfect process, perfect guru, everything about it was perfect. But then, I thought, Maybe this is the one defect, that the spiritual master has to leave. Anyway, back at the temple, maybe the next day during prasādam time, a devotee brought a jar of dal, which was Srila Prabhupada’s remnants. All the other devotees were so excited to get Srila Prabhupada’s remnants.

And I was sitting in one of the roads on the floor. And when the devotee came to me, she explained, “From the material point of view, the dal has gone off. So, I don’t know if you want to have it or not.” I saw all the others were really eager to get it and I said, “Well, everyone else has taken. I’ll also take it.” So, she gave me some. And at the initial contact between the dal and my tongue, it was, “She said that it has gone off, it was putrid.” But after the initial contact, I experienced a different level of it. It was the sweetest nectar. I had never tasted anything like it. Wow, this is amazing. And everything was new then. I had accepted Srila Prabhupada and surrendered to him, but I was still observing.

We were trained in college in the scientific method of observation. So, in the Boston temple, and it would have been true of any temple, but in the Boston temple, they would offer the food to the Deities. And the food that was offered directly on the plate to the Deities was called mahā-prasāda. Everything was prasāda, but that was mahā-prasāda. And so, I would taste the mahā-prasāda and compare the taste to the regular prasāda. And it tasted different. I felt it was sweeter. But I didn’t know if it was just my imagination. Am I trying to convince myself that this is real?

And then one day, when we were sitting and having breakfast, one of the lady devotees, Sharadia, said to the temple president, Satsvarupa Maharaja, “Satsvarupa, did you ever notice that the Deities’ mahā-prasāda all tastes like it has sugar sprinkled on it?” And I thought, Oh, I’m not the only one. This is real. 

So, that statement, that on the absolute platform, meeting and separation are the same, both are occasions of ecstasy, it was really on my mind, but I hadn’t experienced it. And then, one day, when we were chanting in front of a subway station, somehow, I just felt Srila Prabhupada’s presence, it was just so tangible. And I actually started to weep. And then I thought, It’s true that meeting and separation on the absolute platform are the same, both are occasions of ecstasy. I actually felt it.

I’ll tell about my initiation. So, at that time, you could do Deity worship if you had only first initiation. Later, as more disciples were initiated as brahmans, Srila Prabhupada enforced the standard that only brahmans could do Deity worship. But in the early days, even if you had first initiation, you could do some Deity worship. And Satsvarupa Maharaja was thinking I’ve been in the temple for two months and seemed to be pretty serious, so I could be initiated. So, he spoke to me. And I wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada, and by then, he was in Los Angeles. And he initiated me.

Now, that was another experience. Again, we were out on the street, and I suddenly felt a realization. It was just so clear and real that I’m not the body, and I’m something completely different from the body. And that was also a very joyful experience. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. And again, I started to weep. And it was just such a wonderful experience.

So, I mentioned it to some devotees, and they said, “Maybe Srila Prabhupada was chanting on your beads at that point.” And it’s possible, because a couple of days later, Srila Prabhupada’s letter came with my beads, and it was dated that day, “I’m pleased to accept you as my disciple. I marked it in your presence when I saw you, and I prayed to Krishna that this good soul may become aware of the value of Krishna consciousness.” And then, he said, “Your name is Giriraj. Giriraj is the name for the Govardhana Mountain where Krishna used to attend His cows. And sometimes devotees take a stone from the Govardhana Mountain and worship it as a representation of Krishna.”

There was a lot in that letter. But one thing really struck me. My name before initiation was Glenn Teton. And there is a mountain range in Wyoming called the Grand Tetons. And to our knowledge, at that time, we were the only family with that name, and that’s the name Teton. So, it was sort of a matter of pride, Tetons. And sometimes I would see a television show with some millionaire who could have anything that money could buy, he chose to live in the Teton mountains. And later on, not at this stage, later on, I found that Henry Ford’s great-grandson, Alfred Ford, he was actually living in the Teton mountains. That also confirmed my belief that the Teton mountains were really special. And so, I was special.

So, I got this letter, “Giriraj is a name for the Govardhana Mountain.” I thought, Oh my gosh, Srila Prabhupada knows everything. I was so proud of my mountain name, he gave me another mountain name, a better mountain name.

I’ll tell another one. I mean, obviously, I can’t tell every event at every step. This one was a little bit ahead. But from the first temple at 95 Glenville Avenue, we moved to a bigger place. And that wasn’t really the first property that ISKCON owned, it was a big house on 40 North Beacon Street.

So, there was a young man who joined, named Peter. And Peter was very eccentric. And there was a front door. And then, the front door opened into a hallway, then there was a flight of stairs that went upstairs. The temple room was upstairs. And Peter, he would just live in that front hallway. He would lean against the wall and stretch his legs out, and if he got tired, he’d just lie down and go to sleep in the hallway.

Srila Prabhupada was very liberal and very accommodating. But we were thinking that this creates a bad impression on people. They see him, his name was Peter, and so we gave him the nickname crazy Peter. So, we were thinking the first thing they’ll see is crazy Peter. They may not even want to come in or may not come back. So, it might have been Satsvarupa Maharaja or one of the other senior devotees who wrote Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada replied, “What’s the matter, can’t you tolerate?” So, somehow, Prabhupada wanted to protect him and preserve him.

So then, after some time, Srila Prabhupada wanted to return to India, and he wanted the best person from each temple who could be spared, which was usually the number two person, to go and join him.

Then, years passed. I mean, I may get back to the story, but many years passed. And then finally, after being in India, I came to Los Angeles. And in the meantime, there was a devotee who was translating sacred Texts from Sanskrit into English. He was quite prolific, Kusakratha Prabhu. And we were reading these. We were in India, and after Prabhupada left, we were spending time in Vrindavan and teaching. And we were reading these books.

So, one year, I went to Los Angeles, and I saw crazy Peter in the temple room. I never imagined that after all these years, he would still be there. So, I asked someone, “Who’s that?” “Oh, you don’t know? That’s Kusakratha Prabhu.” “Oh my God, crazy Peter was initiated, and he became Kusakratha Prabhu. The most senior devotees are reading his translations of Sanskrit Texts.” And then I thought of Srila Prabhupada, that he somehow, he had some insight that this crazy Peter, I mean, he didn’t take that stance with every crazy person, but somehow, he had that insight for crazy Peter. And the result was, we got so many wonderful literatures from him.

Well, there was so much here. I think maybe I should stop and see if you have any questions or comments? Then, we’ll continue. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: What is your good name?

Devotee: Ananda Rupa devi dasi.

Giriraj Swami: Ananda Rupa devi dasi.

Ananda Rupa devi dasi: Among other things, what did you like about Prabhupada the most? What attracted you to Prabhupada the most? There are so many things about Prabhupada, which are very attractive. What is that which attracted you and what kept you going for so many years without his association?

Giriraj Swami: She says there are so many things about Srila Prabhupada, but what struck me the most about him, and what is it that has kept me going for all these years. Well, I was looking for a guru, and I felt that he knew me inside and out, and that he could guide me properly. I mean, I was struck by his love and compassion and kindness along with his knowledge of the Absolute Truth. And what kept me going is the recollection of what he did for me and for so many others, that I really owe my life to him. And when I think of any difficulty that I might face is negligible, compared to the difficulties that he faced. And he made all these sacrifices for us.

I’ll give one example. We were at the Ardha-Kumba-mela in Allahabad. And it was freezing cold, especially early morning, it was freezing cold. Srila Prabhupada was very strict. Everyone had to be up by 4:00 at the latest and be ready for maṅgala-ārati at 4:30. I had been very strict myself. But at the Kumba-mela, it was just so cold. There was no heating, we were living in tents. It was just easier and more comfortable to stay in the sleeping bag. So, Srila Prabhupada understood that we weren’t getting up and coming to maṅgala-ārati.

So, one morning, although he was so aged and frail, but one morning, he came out at four o’clock. And he was just in his gamchha. He was taking a bath. We had pumps and this freezing cold water would come out. And the news spread and we were so ashamed that we were hiding out in our sleeping bags and Srila Prabhupada was out taking this bath. So, we all jumped out of our sleeping bags, and we also went out. And then, we did it every morning because we didn’t want Srila Prabhupada to do that again. He never really asked us to do anything that he wouldn’t do.

I mean, there were so many instances, but when I think of them, he did so much for us. We should at least do our best to try to repay him and share with others what we got from him. And in that process, we feel his presence, and that’s very ecstatic. Now we feel his presence, we are remembering him, we are discussing him, we are appreciating him, we feel his presence and his pleasure.

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: What is the best way to chant? I know you are the best in that.

Giriraj Swami: By the way, someone told me that it’s a statistic that the best students sit at the front. Someone told me that recently. But everyone here is the best. I’m not saying that, but yeah.

So, your question was about chanting. Of course, there are many techniques and many principles, but one that comes to mind now was discussed at the japa retreat in Philadelphia with His Holiness Sacinandana Swami. So, someone had asked Srila Prabhupada how to chant. Srila Prabhupada replied, “Just try to hear yourself chant sincerely.” So, someone brought that up to Sacinandana Swami and me. And we thought, This sounds good, but we better check and make sure it’s bona fide or not.

So, I wrote to Jayadvaita Swami, “Are you aware of this? What can you tell us about it?” And he was aware of it. And he confirmed that it was an actual statement what Srila Prabhupada said. He slightly modified one word. That’s a very deep statement. Because, “Just try to hear yourself chant,” that’s basic, to hear ourselves chant, “But just try to hear yourself chant sincerely.”

So, what does it mean to chant sincerely? And Srila Prabhupada has made different statements in other contexts, but chant sincerely means that we are really begging the holy name, which is Krishna, to be engaged in His service.

In another place, Srila Prabhupada says that the chanting is like the genuine cry of a child for its mother. That’s another way to chant in that mood. And I know some devotees do that. They consciously try to chant in that mood of a child crying for its mother. And just try to hear yourself chant sincerely. So, there are two parts: chanting sincerely, and then hearing yourself. That should be our mood, that we are crying out to the holy name, to Radha-Krishna.

And Krishna is a person and He will respond to us according to how we approach Him. So, sometimes children cry for different reasons. And sometimes they just want attention, or they want sense gratification, it’s not that significant. But sometimes they could be in real trouble.

His Holiness Niranjan Swami told the story of a boy in the Boston temple. His parents were pūjārīs. And the boy would always be roaming around the temple. And sometimes, he’d cry for this reason, or that reason, but no one really paid much attention.

But one day, on Sunday, he was crying and others said it was usual. But then, he started to cry louder. And then, he started to scream at the top of his voice. And everyone could hear the quality of that sound vibration. They thought, Oh my gosh, there is something serious, we have to find that boy and see what the problem is. And eventually, they found him. And what had happened was he had locked himself in the toilet room, and he couldn’t get out. And he panicked. He thought, I’m stuck here. I can’t get out. I don’t know, he might have thought he would die there. And then they found him. So, that’s the quality of the crying.

That was one example. We can perceive the underlying mood of chanting. For example, if you ever go to Vrindavan to Loi Bazaar, the merchants will say, “Hare Krishna, Prabhu. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. Come, come, Prabhu, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.” So, what is that Hare Krishna? What is this consciousness? “Oh, here’s a customer, I can make some money.” He is saying Hare Krishna with his mouth, but with his mind, he is thinking, Oh, a foreign devotee! I could get a good sale here. “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Prabhu. Hare Krishna.” He is really thinking, Money, money, money.

Even we can detect to some degree the consciousness of a person in the way he is chanting, so Krishna also knows. But one thing that gives me solace, this was from the japa retreat at Montgomery, Texas, with His Grace Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu. And he made the point that just spending time with the holy name will please the holy name. Even if our mind is wandering and even if we are a little distracted or a little sleepy or whatever it is, but just spending that time shows the holy name that we wanted to develop our relationship with Him. And if nothing else, it pleases the holy name that we are making that effort and spending that time. Sometimes they say the main thing is to just show up. So, we just show up to the holy name. That itself is a good beginning.

Hare Krishna. Yes, what is your good name? I would like everyone to introduce yourself.

Devotee: Shyama Kund dasa.

Giriraj Swami: Shyama Kund dasa.

Devotee: You spent a lot of time in Radha-Rasabihari temple in Juhu. Was it your own decision, or is it something you had assignment with Prabhupada?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Shyama Kund Prabhu says that I spent a lot of time at the Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari Temple in Juhu. Was it my decision, or was it something that Srila Prabhupada asked me to do? It was not my decision. And I think most of the devotees who came from America thought of Vrindavan or Mayapur, and I also did. So, for a while, I was thinking, I’m here now, but eventually, I might go to Vrindavan. And then one day, I just got it that Srila Prabhupada wants me to stay here. And I surrendered to it. And as soon as I did that, my mood completely changed. My attitude completely changed. I felt, I’m part of Bombay, I’m not going anywhere. And the other people of Bombay aren’t going anywhere. So, we might as well get to know each other and have a nice relationship.

I mean, I always try to deal nicely with everyone, but especially then, whenever I met someone, I thought, Well, it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t become a life member or give a donation because I’m not going anywhere and he is not going anywhere. We may meet again and at least, I should leave him with a good impression. So, the next time we meet, he’ll be open. So, that was a really profound change.

Then, I didn’t distinguish. It was my prabhudata-desh. Prabhudata-desh means the place given by the spiritual master to the disciple as the place of service to the spiritual master. So, that was my prabhudata-desh, that was given to me by Srila Prabhupada out of his mercy. And at one stage, he said that Srila Madhvacharya had established Mathas as a place to give his disciples a platform to preach. He said, “So, in this way, I’m establishing the Juhu temple for you and others.”

So, it’s very important that we don’t make material distinctions in devotional service. On the absolute platform, there is no difference between offering ārati to the Deities or cleaning the toilet. There is no difference. And if we make a distinction, it means there is a defect in our understanding.

I won’t comment yet, I’ll just tell you the incident. So, after serving in India for about three years, I got very sick with jaundice. Actually, I had it and I recovered, and then I had a relapse. Often, the relapse is harder to recover from than the initial onset. So, that was the case. And at that stage, Srila Prabhupada said, “As long as Giriraj remains in Bombay, he won’t be able to get better.” I was very sick and I was very weak, but somehow, I had to see Srila Prabhupada before I left.

Tamal Krishna Goswami was the GBC. By the way, today is his Vyasa-puja day. So, Tamal Krishna Goswami was the GBC, and he didn’t want me to leave. But Prabhupada said, “As long as Giriraj stays in Bombay, he won’t be able to get better.” But I went to Srila Prabhupada and Tamal Krishna Goswami was in the room. And Srila Prabhupada said to Tamal Krishna Goswami, “In Los Angeles, Kuranda will give Giriraj rasagullā and sandeśa, which you could not do.” Because I guess sweets are good for. . .

So then, I went to Los Angeles and I got better. I gradually got better. As I got better, I was able to start to come into Srila Prabhupada’s room when he was meeting with devotees. And even started to go on morning walks. And at a certain stage, he felt it was time for me to go back.

Can we turn off the fans for a minute? Atleast, this one? I don’t know what it is?

But anyway, Srila Prabhupada used the phrase, he felt it was time for me to go back, and he used the phrase, “Back home, back to Bombay.” And I took it as sort of an indirect blessing. “Go back to your service in Bombay, go back home.” So yeah, I did. And we sing,

guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya

That one should make the instructions of the spiritual master one with your heart and don’t desire anything else. So, at first, there was a distinction. The distinction you raised in the question was that my desire or was it Prabhupada’s desire. It was not my desire, but it was Prabhupada’s desire. But then, after a while, that distinction didn’t exist. Hare Krishna.

Yes?

Devotee: The question that I want to ask you what is being reflecting on all these years was maybe perhaps the most challenging or most memorable times in your career?

Giriraj Swami: There were many, but one very memorable time was when I was in Madras. And although there was a party of devotees and we were the first ones who went, but gradually, the others were moved to other places to do service. I was left alone. But it was really, I think, one of the best periods I ever had. I was alone, I was very disciplined and regulated. I’d get up, and I did maṅgala-ārati. And then, I would chant all my rounds and read a little. And then, I would start making phone calls to meet people.

And at a certain stage, I had a little change of heart. At first, I had a certain conception that I wanted the person to do something particular, become a life member. Then, when we were organizing the program for Srila Prabhupada, to contribute in a particular way. But after a while, I guess this sort of surrender that took whatever to Krishna’s will. I have faith in Krishna, everything will work out all right. And I don’t need to control what this person does or that person does. But whatever Krishna in the heart inspires them to offer, whatever they themselves want to offer, I should just accept it.

There was one man, BL Chaudhary. Usually, I’d want people to become life members or take an advertisement in the souvenir or something. And he didn’t want to do any of those things. But in the end, he did so much service, he did amazing service for Prabhupada’s program. So, I didn’t really try to impose, I just saw what they wanted to offer, and I would accept it gladly. And yeah, Srila Prabhupada was very pleased. Yeah?

Devotee: Actually, I just want to tell you something that when I was in Australia to treat my heart and every time I go there, I remembered you because you worked so hard to build that temple and they always reciprocate with me. Such beautiful. . .

Giriraj Swami: That’s nice!

Devotee: Would you like to give advice to all of us regarding our spiritual life?

Giriraj Swami: Well, that was at Gita Nagari. Our godsister, Rukmini devi, wanted me, to tell a story, but there was no time. So, I’ll tell the story now because it’s related to Madras, and I’m sure it has some relevance somewhere. So, I was meeting people in Madras, and I was preaching the way I heard Srila Prabhupada preach. But I started to get advice from friends that I shouldn’t preach the way I was preaching. I shouldn’t criticize others. I should just say positively what I want to say about Krishna consciousness. But I shouldn’t say anything negative about anyone else.

I heard what they said. I wasn’t sure how to apply it because that wasn’t the way Srila Prabhupada preached. But so many people were saying it. I thought, Maybe Krishna’s trying to tell me something. And in the meantime, I’d written Srila Prabhupada explaining the situation. So, I had an appointment with an industrialist, and I thought, Okay, I’m not going to say anything negative about any other person or any other philosophy or any other process.

He had a big compound. He had his office, his factory, his residence. I showed him our pictures, and Prabhupada said to just put all my books on the man’s table, and he’ll become a life member. So, I put all the books on his table. I did everything. And then he said, “What about Shankaracharya? You said so many things about so many other figures. What about Shankaracharya?” So, I said, “Yes, he is also one of the great acharyas of India.” He said, “Well, what about him? Why didn’t you say anything about him? Well, what do you think of him?”

So, I said, “Yeah, he is. . .” But he just kept pushing, pressing, and then finally, I just came out with the whole thing, that he is an incarnation of Lord Shiva, and he is teaching Buddhism and everything. I took out the Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, and I read the quotations of Shankaracharya. But that wasn’t, as we would say today, politically correct. So, that was it. Well, I tried but I failed.

So, I put all the pictures back in my briefcase, put all the books back in my briefcase, took back the form, packed up my briefcase and was ready to leave. He was somewhat cultured. So, he was escorting me to the gate of the compound. And he said, “Before you leave, I want you to come in my home and see my temple. I thought, He is going to have a shiva-lingam. He is going to want me to offer full obeisances. And if I don’t, he is going to think I’m sectarian. And I looked at him in the eyes, “Do I really have to do this?” And he looked back, “Yes, you really have to do this.”

So, we went into his house, and he took me to his temple room. And it was pretty big for a home, the temple was pretty big. It was like this section that we are in, maybe half that big. It was white tiles and there was an elevated platform. And on the platform were Deities of Radha and Krishna. Oh my God. I was so happy because there almost all the Vaishnava temples in Madras were Vishnu like Vaikuntha mood. And there is one temple near the sea of Parthasarathi. He has a mustache. I didn’t see Radha-Krishna anywhere. I was really happy, and I offered obeisances.

And then, I looked at him, “What is this?” And he said, “Me and my family are all devotees of Radha and Krishna. And we have been devotees of Radha and Krishna for generations. And I was just testing you. And I’m very pleased with you. You did not compromise, and I will be very happy to become your life member.” And so, we went back to his office. I took out the books again, Back to Godhead, took out the form. He filled in the form, paid the whole amount with one check, and he became a life member.

Well, maybe what I’ve been doing isn’t wrong. But I wasn’t completely sure. But I was thinking, Maybe it’s not wrong. And then, when I got back to the place where I was staying, there was a letter from Srila Prabhupada. And I opened it up. And my eyes went down and I think the second paragraph, the words jumped out of the page. And he said, “The fact is that I am the only one in India who is criticizing not only impersonalism and demigod worship, but anything that falls short of complete surrender to Krishna. We must declare it boldly that Krishna is the Supreme Godhead and all others are His part and parcel, servants. And we should not dream of peace and prosperity unless we surrender to Krishna, the Supreme God.”

And then he said, “My Guru Maharaja never compromised in his preaching, and I will never compromise in my preaching. And similarly, none of my disciples should compromise, but we must declare it boldly.”

So then, I felt this is the confirmation. So, it may seem hard, but actually, it’s easier to speak the truth. But there are ways of speaking the truth. But we should speak the truth. When we speak the truth and people respond, two things; it increases our faith and the other is Krishna’s pleased.

I don’t know if I said the right thing or not, but at the end of the sādhu-saṅga retreat, there was a lady, she sort of covers kirtan. She asked me what do I think about the rise in popularity of kirtan. So, I said, “It’s good if by their interest in kirtan they get the association of pure devotees and learn the proper method of chanting the holy name, then it can bestow upon them the greatest benefit.” But there is a method for everything. Srila Prabhupada said, “There is a method for making puris, there is a method for playing the piano, there is a method for everything.” So, there is also a method for making advancement in spiritual life. There is a method for chanting the holy name.

And without learning the proper method, people will not get the real benefit. They won’t. But the good side of the popularity of kirtan is that they may get the association of pure devotees who will teach them the proper method, and then they can get the real benefit. So, she said, “Thank you for being so frank.”

Yes, sir?

Devotee: My question is that in Prabhupada’s time, devotees were very direct. Their entire vibrational attire. In today’s day and age, we see that sometimes larger crowds, when we preach through kirtan or yoga, Prabhupada’s books are not introduced. Vaishnava attires are not introduced. And we are asked to refrain from those things because they may scare us.

Devotee: Scared. . .

Devotee: Yeah, scared also. But we see the next generation leaders refrain from these being bold. Can you say a few words about this situation? I see a big difference personally. When I am preaching no matter where I am, they want to hide Prabhupada’s books but there are programs I was asked to refrain from it.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are a number of elements to your question. As far as dress, I have attended programs that are part of very successful approaches. And I’ve seen that at those programs, there is sort of a mixture of dress. The first time I noticed it was at ISKCON San Jose under Vaisesika Prabhu’s leadership. And it was a program especially meant to attract westerners. And I saw that not everyone was wearing Vaishnava dress. Although in the usual program, they do. And at first, I thought, Well, is it the timing? The are too busy to go home and change? But after a while, I realized that actually, they are doing it deliberately.

And I saw the same thing at another place, very successful program in Charlottesville, Virginia, at the university. So, with Vaisesika Prabhu, I told him what I thought at first, and then what I thought later. And he said, “Yes, that’s right. We want people who come to feel comfortable, like they could fit in, that they don’t have to shave their heads and wear dhotis or sarees in order to be with us.”

And the devotee in charge of the program at Charlottesville said something similar, that she doesn’t want to have such a strong sense of us and them. But there will be people in Vaishnava dress but not everyone fully. And there is a reason behind it. It may not be so necessary with Indians because this is their original cultural dress, but with westerners, I could see the logic, and I could see the success from the approach. To me, that was the main thing.

As far as Prabhupada’s books, I don’t know what to say about that because in the two examples that I gave, Vaisesika Prabhu who was all Prabhupada’s books. I mean, I don’t know about that. And even at the program at UVA, they are very open about offering Prabhupada’s books. They have what they call a book club and they go through different books. But I think most of them are Prabhupada’s books. Maybe all of the books are Prabhupada’s books, but definitely, most of them are Prabhupada’s books.

So, I haven’t really been in a situation where I’ve seen that. And I haven’t had a chance to ask the people why they wouldn’t be offering Srila Prabhupada’s books. But on my own, I can’t think of a good reason. There are so many people that have become devotees just by reading Srila Prabhupada’s books. In fact, I thought of compiling all these stories, amazing stories.

But there is one American young man in San Diego. Somehow, he got a book, and he opened it up. And practically the first thing he read was, “If all you do is eat, sleep, mate, and defend without inquiring into the higher values of life, you are no better than an animal.” And he read it. Yeah, that’s true. I mean, there is just so many people.

Ṛtadhvaja Swami told a story that he was distributing books at I guess a welcome center in Florida. And he gave someone a book. The man said, “What’s it about?” “It’s about yoga. How to be more peaceful and happy in life.” So, he opened up the book and he read the sentence, “People who are like dogs, hogs, camels, and asses do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” So, he asked Ṛtadhvaja Swami, “What does this have to do with yoga?” So anyway, Ṛtadhvaja Swami started to explain it.

And then, he was in the parking lot, his wife went into the welcome center, she came out and said, “Oh, hi honey, what’s happening?” He said, “Oh, nothing, nothing, I’m taking a book.” And he gave a good donation and he took the book. He wasn’t put off by dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. So, I mean, they are just so many people who have really been affected, very strongly and favorably, by Srila Prabhupada’s preaching, which is Krishna’s preaching.

One of our best devotees in Bombay, I mean, congregation, was named Mr. P.L. Setti. And the first time he met Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada asked him, “What’s your daily schedule?” He said, “I get up, I wash my mouth, I have some toast and a cup of tea, and I read the newspaper, and I go to work.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “What’s the difference between you and the pig?” And he thought about it and said, “That’s a good point, what is the difference?” He says, “So, what should I do?” And he said, “Invite the devotees every weekend and have hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and distribute prasāda.”

But having said all of that and with great faith in Srila Prabhupada’s books and the potency of his books, I still wouldn’t want to pass judgment without hearing from the people who are adopting the strategy of not presenting Srila Prabhupada’s books. Any other questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: Hare Krishna. At final times of Srila Prabhupada, I’ve heard that you had some intimate association with Prabhupada where Srila Prabhupada mentioned about intelligence and organization. Can you remember that?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. He is asking about an incident, which I shall describe. It was in Srila Prabhupada’s last weeks, and I was sleeping on the roof of the gurukula building in Vrindavan. And in the middle of the night, I don’t know, midnight or one in the morning, Prabhupada’s servant woke me up and said, “Prabhupada wants to see you.”

So, I sort of freshened up and went into his room. And he asked, “Do you think the movement will go on without me?” And I said, “Yes, Srila Prabhupada. As long as the devotees are sincere and chant Hare Krishna and follow the regulative principles, it will be successful.” And then, with great difficulty, Srila Prabhupada couldn’t utter a word, he was so weak. So, with great difficulty, he said, “Organization. Organization and intelligence.”

So, my understanding of that is that of course, we have to be sincere and chant Hare Krishna and follow the regulative principles, but even a bhajanānandī will do that. But Srila Prabhupada was very much goṣṭhyānandī. So, to spread Krishna consciousness, we need organization and intelligence. We need to apply our intelligence to the spread of Krishna consciousness.

So, I think that was very instructive, especially for me, but for everyone. Generally, the collective intelligence is greater than the individual’s intelligence. And so, it really means to work together with intelligence, how to organize ourselves in the best way to describe Krishna consciousness. And that also includes nourishing the devotees that we have. Because Srila Prabhupada also said it’s more important to maintain a devotee than try to make a new devotee. So, we have to see all sides, and it’s not easy to cooperate, may not be easy.

At the Hyderabad farm, at one stage, there are some very strong individuals, very strong individuals. And I heard that Srila Prabhupada told them, “You meet together, you fight like cats and dogs, and then when you all agree, you go ahead.” That’s our service.

Any other questions or comments?

Well, I think we have five minutes left. Of course, I just made that up myself.

Yes?

Devotee: With the Bombay temple, with all the struggle and everything, what was the inner thing that was keeping everybody going? Because when we read about all the description today, it was so much. So, what was there that was keeping you all going with all that struggle?

Giriraj Swami: Well, what was keeping us going was Srila Prabhupada. But I think I should speak about what was keeping Srila Prabhupada going, and that is that he promised Radha-Rasabihari, “You just sit down here, and I will build a temple for You.” So, it was really his personal commitment and service to Radha-Rasabihari. And we were just following him.

But there were times along the way when some of the devotees, even in the beginning, actually, some of the disciples opposed the move to Juhu. They felt it was too far away from the city and too crude. And even along the way, they canceled the agreement. But whatever it was, Srila Prabhupada was just fixed in his determination, and in the end, he was successful. And that’s amazing.

And at the end, I think in Vrindavan in 1977, Tamal Krishna Goswami said to Srila Prabhupada, “You always came out victorious. Every single time, you came out victorious. And Juhu, I never imagined.” He said, “I think only you and Radha-Rasabihari could have known.” He said, “Someone should write a book about it.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, it is history, it is worth writing.” We do need to write that book.

It really shows not just how personal Krishna consciousness is, but how Srila Prabhupada saw that the Deity is Krishna. We may or may not, but he underwent that whole huge struggle because he knew that Krishna is there, that the Deity is Krishna. So, it’s very instructive for us. Is that alright?

Devotee: I’d like to build a new temple [Unintelligible 01:50:25]. Can you give us some practical guidelines because we are facing a struggle to raise the funds to start building the temple? You have built a very, very large temple. Can you give us some guidelines?

Giriraj Swami: I think we are out of time. We could discuss that maybe afterwards, but seriously, people are already walking out. It’s a good question.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:51:10].