Ratha-yatra—Questions and Answers

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: There is a question over here, if you wanted to speak first? Or did you want us to go right into the questions?

Giriraj Swami: Well, you can tell me what your question is?

Devotee: Well, I wanted to hear what you are working on now? Because I heard you were writing a book about Prabhupada and the establishment of the temple in Juhu. Is there anything you want to tell us about that? We’d like to hear about it.

Giriraj Swami: Okay. Are there any. . .? I like to get all the questions first, and then I can weave them together, maybe.

Devotee: My question is, before you came, for around half an hour, they were talking about male female relations, the movement, and guidance, and stuff. My question is about the traditions. They have a tradition in contra. Can you comment on Prabhupada’s idea of that? I’m not sure how they address sex and stuff. I’m trying to, I’m being respectful. I’m not like me. But what is the story? Is Prabhupada and his teaching just a conservative way of developing stuff? But there are other ways like [Unintelligible].

Giriraj Swami: Do you know it’s out of bounds? You just want to know if it’s too far out of the bounds.

Devotee: In this tradition, I mean, I’ve experienced. Between Buddhism and contra, most of it has nothing to do with sex. But I’m just curious. I mean, I started with this when I was young, it’s my foundation. If you will, or something like that. So, I come to this and sometimes questions come after. And it has to do with that perspective. I’m not being antagonistic or anything like that.

Giriraj Swami: Well, in Vedic culture, there are two paths. One is called nivṛtti-mārga, and the other is pravṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga is the path of extinguishing material desires, and pravṛtti-mārga is the path of trying to fulfill material desires. So, ultimately, in order to experience the highest pleasure, it’s a natural result that you will give up the inferior pleasure of the body to experience the greater pleasure of the soul. So, we want to help people experience the greatest pleasure of the soul. But sometimes in order to get something greater, you have to give up something lesser, which is the so-called pleasures of the material senses.

There is a story of Sanatana Gosvami. Well, there was a devotee of Lord Shiva, and he was worshiping Lord Shiva.

Would you like to come in and sit down? There are a couple of seats. If you want. What is your good name?

Devotee: Anthony.

Giriraj Swami: Anthony, all right. You are with me, right?

So, this devotee of Shiva, he pleased Lord Shiva with his sacrifices. So, he asked a boon of Lord Shiva, “I want the most valuable thing.” So, Lord Shiva said, “I don’t have the most valuable thing, but if you go to Sanatana Gosvami in Vrindavan, he has the most valuable thing.”

So, he went to Sanatana Gosvami, and he thought the most valuable thing was a touchstone that would turn anything into gold. He said, “I want the most valuable thing—the touchstone.” “They are all the touchstone. I think it’s out in the back in the trash somewhere. If you look through the trash, you’ll probably find it.” So, he found it and he touched some things and it turned to gold. And he thought, Oh, this is fantastic. Everything I want, I can get now.

But then he thought, If that saintly person keeps this in the trash, discarded it in the trash, he must not consider it to be very valuable. He must have something more valuable. So, he went back to him and he said, “I think you have something more valuable than touchstone. I want the most valuable thing.” So, Sanatana said, “Oh, you want the most valuable thing? Oh, yes, I can give you that. But first, you have to throw the touchstone in the river.” So, he was hesitant because he knew he was getting good gold from that touchstone, but still, he knew there must be something more valuable because otherwise, why would he keep it out in the trash?

So, he took the leap of faith, and he threw the touchstone in the Yamuna River. And he went back, and he said, “Now, I did it. So, I want really the most valuable thing.” He said, “Okay, I will give you really the most valuable thing:

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

So, sometimes you have to give up something inferior to get something greater.

Devotee: I get that sometimes.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: I give them right here. He gave him the maha-mantra.

Giriraj Swami: That was the most valuable thing, the Hare Krishna maha-mantra.

Devotee: What the devotee says [Unintelligible 00:09:10]

Giriraj Swami: Well, it depends on the receptivity of the candidate. But if someone is without offense, then we can immediately feel the wonderful effects of chanting.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare 

Devotee: I haven’t heard the story in a while, but didn’t he tell him that first, he had to throw away the touchstone? Oh, I’m sorry. Okay, never mind.

Devotee: So, you mentioned that there are two different paths. I never knew that. And there is kind of push for us to return to Vedic society and varnashrama-dharma. And you hear all these things from different devotees. Though this isn’t the debate, and it’s like, how do you really know which ideas from the Vedas to accept, and which ones are irrelevant to our practice today?

Giriraj Swami: What is your name?

Devotee: Alex.

Giriraj Swami: Alex, what you have asked is a very good question because the Vedas, the Vedic literatures are vast, and we don’t have time to read them all. And even if we were to try to read them on our own, we’d probably be confused because there are so many different prescriptions.

So, the essence of the Vedas is the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by Krishna Himself, who is accepted as the Supreme Being, to Arjuna. So, it’s described that the Vedas are like a cow, and the Bhagavad-gītā is like the milk from the cow. It’s the essence. And Krishna is like the milkman, and Arjuna is like that fortunate person who is drinking the milk from Krishna.

So, if you can understand the Bhagavad-gītā, then you have understood the essence of the Vedas. And within the eighteen Chapters of the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna discusses different types of yoga. Bhagavad-gītā is the primary textbook of yoga. And yoga really means to connect with God. So, He discusses many different types of yoga. But He does say:

TEXT 47

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
Mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yukta-tamo mataḥ        [Gītā 6.47]

COMMENT

“Of all kinds of yogis, the one who serves Me with faith and devotion is the best.” And all the different Chapters on the different types of yoga are accommodated in the Twelfth Chapter, which is on bhakti-yoga. So, the Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of the Vedas, and the essence of the Bhagavad-gītā is bhakti-yoga. And the essence of bhakti-yoga is chanting and hearing about Krishna, which is what we are doing. So, it’s actually easy to understand. Krishna also says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo, that the purpose of all the Vedas is to know Krishna. And then He says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti, that He can be known only by bhakti-yoga. So, what we are practicing here and discussing here is really the essence of the Vedas and the perfection of yoga. And Krishna also says, susukhaṁ kartum avyayam, it is easy to perform and happy, joyfully performed. So, is that all right?

Devotee: My question is for what to look for to take initiation? What are some important questions to ask a potential guru?

Giriraj Swami: What is your name?

Devotee: Adrian.

Giriraj Swami: Adrian. Wow! It’s triple ‘A’ here. A class audience. Well, before I would answer your question, I would begin my answer with a question—Why do you ask the question? Why do you want to know about finding a guru? What is your interest in finding a guru?

Devotee: Well, I’ve been spending quite a bit of time at the temple chanting my rounds, reading, studying, attending programs. So, I’m starting to go inclinations towards, finally hear you, always hear that taking initiation—that’s the beginning of your spiritual lives. And finding a guru is more important than finding a wife or anything else. So, it’s kind of a big decision to make. So, what are some questions that you should prepare or things to understand when beginning this process?

Giriraj Swami: Okay, can I ask you another question? What books have you read?

Devotee: I’ve read many of the small books. I’m on Chapter Fourteen of the Bhagavad-gītā. I’ve read all the verses in the Bhagavad-gītā. I’m finishing Teachings of Lord Chaitanya. I attend Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class at the temple.

Giriraj Swami: It sounds very good. And have you read anything about Srila Prabhupada?

Devotee: I attended the seminar by. . . I can’t remember his name, but he referred to himself with Uncle S.

Giriraj Swami: Suresvar Prabhu?

Devotee: Yes. I haven’t read anything specific about his life or anything other.

Giriraj Swami: Okay. Well, it would be good if you read something about him. I mean, there is a book called Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta, which explains a lot about him. And from the Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta, you can understand the history of Srila Prabhupada, the history of ISKCON, and in a way, the history of bhakti-yoga, and how it was applied by Srila Prabhupada for all of us. Do you pray?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: If you don’t mind, what do you pray for?

Devotee: Well, I pray to Krishna for strength, to keep me situated spiritually, and I pray for others a lot also, to give them strength to gain Krishna consciousness if they don’t have it, parents and family or even devotees, actually, that I might see struggle with certain things. So, those sorts of things.

Giriraj Swami: And did you ever think of praying to Srila Prabhupada or Krishna to guide you to your guru?

Devotee: Yes, I think [Unintelligible]. That hasn’t been my focus of my praying just yet.

Giriraj Swami: So, you don’t seem to be in anxiety about it.

Devotee: No, I’m not.

Giriraj Swami: So, when you are in anxiety, then you’ll pray. And maybe it’s just not the right time. I mean, as long as you are under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada and his followers, then you are going in the right direction. And accepting a personal spiritual master is something that comes at a certain point. As long as you keep associating with the devotees and following the process, you’ll continue to make progress and if you don’t commit offenses, so just keep going.

Devotee: Okay.

Devotee: The question is, why did Krishna create Brahma, and did Brahma create the souls, all of us?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says, na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin, that the soul is not born and it does not die at any time. So, the soul is not actually created, it exists eternally. But it’s like the sun rays and the sun. They both exist simultaneously, but still, you could say that the sunshine comes from the sun because the sun is primary, sunshine is secondary. So, yes, we come from Krishna. And Brahma—he engineers the creation of the universe, but not the souls. The souls already exist. And when the universe is created, then Krishna sends the souls into the universe. So, our real father is Krishna.

Devotee: I was listening to a lecture that you gave about disciples coming to become qualified to be initiated. One of the things you mentioned was eagerness. So, I thought of two aspects or two different things; Srila Prabhupada’s life and Bhaktisiddhanta’s life. Srila Prabhupada waited eleven years before taking dīkṣā—Bhaktisiddhanta [Unintelligible 00:24:52]. So, how does the spiritual master know that the disciple is qualified? How does the disciple know that he is actually eager?

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s a good question. We should be eager to serve, and we should be eager to hear and learn. So, that’s basic. But we need both enthusiasm and patience. If you have enthusiasm but no patience, then that can lead to a desire to control. And if you have patience without enthusiasm, that can lead to lethargy. So, we want both. We want enthusiasm to progress, but we also have to be patient because it may take time to achieve a particular goal that we have. But we still persevere.

In his question, he mentioned two examples. Srila Prabhupada met his Guru Maharaja in 1922. And within his heart, he accepted him as a spiritual master, but he didn’t actually get initiated until 1933, which is eleven years later. And it’s just maybe an arrangement to show us that we can be patient.

And it might have also been circumstances that Srila Prabhupada moved to Allahabad for his business, and then took some time before Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura came to Allahabad. But then, when he did come, Srila Prabhupada was initiated immediately. But yes, the other example of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, the main thing is to surrender to Krishna. Hare Krishna.

All right, well, you asked about Juhu. I heard quite an amazing story just today. I mean, I missed hearing it. But the architect of the Juhu project, Surabhi Prabhu, came to New Dwarka for the Prabhupada festival over the Memorial Day weekend. And he said that when he first met Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada found out that he was an architect, Srila Prabhupada asked him to design a huge magnificent temple for Los Angeles because he was planning that Los Angeles was going to be his world headquarters, western world headquarters, or world headquarters.

And so, he was going to send Surabhi Prabhu to Los Angeles. But then, when Surabhi Prabhu was ready, Prabhupada said, “No, I don’t want you to go to Los Angeles. I want you to go to Bombay.” And then he said, “Within my heart, I wanted to make this temple as an offering to Dwarkadhish, but Dwarkadhish told me, ‘No, you should make it in Bombay.’” And still, Prabhupada didn’t accept it. He said, “No, within my heart, I want to make this offering to You. This is my western world headquarters.” And Dwarkadhish said, “No, I want you to make this temple in Bombay.” And then the third time, this sort of transcendental discussion or argument, and third time, Dwarkadhish said, “If you want to please Me, then make this temple in Bombay.”

And then he sent Saurabh to Bombay, and then Saurabh opened his heart to Dwarkadhish. This is at the festival. And he said to the Dwarkadhish, “I am eternally indebted to You. Because of you, I went to Bombay, and I got to do so much service for Srila Prabhupada and have so much association with Srila Prabhupada. So, I owe that to You because You insisted that Prabhupada build that temple in Juhu.”

And Saurabh had actually been away from the association of devotees for a number of years. And he wasn’t sure how the devotees would respond to him after he was away for so long. And when he first came to Vrindavan for the fortieth anniversary of the opening of the temple there, and then he came to Los Angeles for the Prabhupada reunion, and he said that usually, someone will have one or two best friends. He said when he first met the devotees, he thought, If I were in the material world, I probably wouldn’t be friends with any of these people. But then, after a while, he started to see them more spiritually, and they actually became his friends. So then, he explained that.

But after he was away, he wasn’t sure how he would be received. He was welcomed, overwhelming love and appreciation and gratitude from the devotees. And then he said that if someone has one or two good friends, he is quite lucky. But after he came back, he realized, “Actually, all these devotees are my friends.” And then, after a while, he realized, “No, they are not just my friends, they are my best friends. Every single one of these devotees is my best friend.” And then he realized further, finally, “These devotees are my only friends.” And that was his realization.

He had advanced liver cancer, so he came to Vrindavan, and he came here, and then he went back to Hongkong. And then, just last week, he felt his time had come. So, he came back to Vrindavan and he left, about a week ago.

And he said that Prabhupada had told him that for building these two temples: Vrindavan and Juhu, his ticket back to Godhead was guaranteed, as long as the temples remained functioning. So, he said for those thirty years when he was in Hongkong, and he wasn’t so aware of what was happening, he thought, I’m wondering what’s happening in Vrindavan and what’s happening in Bombay. Because after the acharya leaves, things happen and you don’t know what the final result will be. So, he was really worried because his hopes were on those temples. And then, when he came, and he saw they are flourishing and beautiful Deity worship and hundreds and thousands of people coming, he thought, Okay, I got my ticket, I got my ticket.

Devotee: Maharaja, have you heard other signs of Prabhupada put a condition on the mercy? I just reviewed the question. So, have you heard Srila Prabhupada at other times put a condition on the mercy?

Giriraj Swami: Well, in a general sense, he states that if you chant sixteen rounds, follow the regulative principles, and do your best to spread Krishna consciousness, you’ll go back home, back to Godhead. So, that’s just the condition. But I never heard of one quite like this.

Devotee: I have another question. Since you were in Bombay, maybe you can give me the backpack story or some information when the temple was attacked once. And I think that Maithili [Unintelligible] mentioned something because she did that. She’ll also receive the mercy or go back together for something like that. Do you know the story?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I was there. It’s a long story, but without going into the details, you could say that it was a conspiracy. And the owner of the land wanted to get us off the land. Actually, by then, he had died. It was about two months after he died. This event took place on May 19, 1973. Nair died on February 17, 1973. Three months.

So, the Municipal Demolition Crew came and they were supported by the police. And we had permits. People say that Mrs. Nair used her life insurance money to take care of the Municipal officers and the Police Chief. So, they came, and Maithili, she had a big body. One by one, the devotees were going up to stop the demolition workers, and they were just taken by the police and put in the van. And she was the last one, and she positioned herself right in front of the doors. She was strong, and she was wild for the Deities. She is Prabhupada’s disciple, Maithili. They had to grab her by her arms, and I think they grabbed her by the hair and arms and legs, and dragged her away. So, many devotees, I’m not sure about Prabhupada, but many devotees said, “Just for that service, you’ll go back home, back to Godhead.”

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:42:42].

Giriraj Swami: So we would leave, and basically, they wanted to drive us out.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:43:00].

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I heard that recently too.

Devotee: You think it’s true?

Giriraj Swami: Probably, but she sometimes comments that that’s how she is going to go back to Godhead, kicking and screaming.

Devotee: You are saying that she is guaranteed a place in heaven by building the temple. But getting back on the Tantric tradition, they say that when you do things a certain way, you are guaranteed, and spiritual side results in the offerings, the actions. And it just simply flips over the consciousness, what they were call in Buddhism—the pure land, and in the Catholic, they called the Communion of Saints. [Unintelligible 00:45:35].

There is a group similar to a Christian called NKT. Those people that are protesting the Dalai Lama wherever he goes. They were in the UK up an overseas. I learned these secrets there. So, it’s more of a comment of your actions creating karma that translate into maybe a citizenship in the spiritual world. Can you comment on that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t know about so many complicated subjects.

Devotee: You should become our guru. [Unintelligible 00:46:26].

Devotee: When I first learned about this forty or fifty years ago on my own, and when I come to these festivals of your [Unintelligible 00:46:46].

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are different stages of spiritual progress. I mean, there is sādhana-siddha, that means you attain perfection by sadhana. Then there is kṛpā-siddha, which means that you attain perfection by the mercy of Krishna or some devotee.

So, with Surabhi Prabhu and his building—the Juhu temple in the Vrindavan temple is sort of Kripa Siddha that he did for his service by the mercy of a powerful Vaishnava. He would be liberated and that’s compared to an honorary degree. Someone sometimes gets an honorary degree from the university. But that’s rare. Generally, to get a degree, you have to enroll and take the courses and pass the exams, and then you get your degree. So generally, we are working towards sādhana-siddha, and if we follow the process and don’t commit offenses, then we will feel that we are making progress, and eventually, we’ll achieve perfection.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:48:32].

Devotee: Okay, Maharaja. So, can we take his last question please?

Giriraj Swami: Sure. Oh wait, this gentleman raised his hand.

Devotee: Okay, so I’ll get back to you whenever you want, okay.

Devotee: Okay, so I just wanted to know, or I was just curious, with all your time devoted to Krishna into this lifestyle, do you feel that you are fulfilled? That you are happier now than ever before? You have reached a point in your life where you are sustaining without the material aspects of life?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. You want to ask yours? You want elaboration?

Well, the advancement in Krishna consciousness can be quite subtle because the activities in Krishna consciousness are the same as regular activities in the material world, more or less, but the goal is different. In the material world, people sing and dance and eat, but the goal is sense gratification. And we also chant and dance and feast, but the goal is Krishna. Srila Prabhupada gives the example that you get in an airplane and you sit down, you read a book or you talk to your friend, you drink some water, and you don’t even notice that you are going anywhere. But then you look out the window and you see, “Wow! I’ve come a long way, I’m above the clouds. Clouds are all down there. It’s only sun up here.” So, in that sense, you look back and you see you’ve come a long way because you don’t desire those things.

I mean, a devotee is fully satisfied in Krishna consciousness in the sense that he doesn’t want to do anything else. But he is not satisfied, “Okay, now I’ve done enough, so now I can just go to sleep.” But he always feels he wants to do more. More for Srila Prabhupada, more for Krishna, more for other people. So, he is satisfied in the sense that he doesn’t want anything but Krishna consciousness, but he is not satisfied that he has done enough. He always wants to do more and do better.

Another nice example, and it’s a way of testing yourself. Once, Srila Prabhupada was on a morning walk in Chicago, and he came to a car called thunderbird. So, he asked the devotees, “Is there any such a bird as the thunderbird?” So, one devotee said, “Well, I think they named the car after an Indian Chief.” I don’t know if it’s true or if he just was speculating, but, “I think they named it after an Indian Chief named Thunderbird.” But still, “Is there any such a bird as a thunderbird?” And he said, “In India, we are aware of this bird. And the nature of this bird is that it will only drink water from the cloud. It’s called the Chatak. It’s a type of bird that will only drink water directly from the cloud.”

So, the Chatak bird is always hovering under the cloud, waiting for drops of water. But sometimes the cloud doesn’t give water. Sometimes it gives thunder and lightning. But still, the Chatak bird will not go anywhere else for water. So, the example is given that a devotee will take mercy only from Krishna. He doesn’t want any material mercy, any mercy from the material world. And even if apparently Krishna’s not giving mercy but giving thunderbolts, he still will not look for mercy in the material world. He’ll patiently wait for Krishna’s mercy.

So, that’s another way of looking at it, that even in difficulty, a devotee doesn’t want any mercy other than from Krishna, won’t look for mercy or relief in intoxication or any other form of sense gratification.

Devotee: In the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Sixteenth Chapter, it says one whose demonic qualities think, I’m perfectly happy. And so, I was reading recently in voice book, and he was explaining that the result of sincere chanting, humility is produced because the person realized, Okay, I’m not so great after all. I have a lot of faults.

So, upon realizing one’s faults, there is a tendency to become discouraged. The Christians have this saying that everybody has their own cross to carry. I was speaking with one devotee, and he was explaining to me that when I was bringing up some of my faults. So, maybe you could just comment on the idea of how not to become discouraged after realizing so many different faults.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Krishna consciousness is a process of purification. And when there is cleaning going on, you see the dirt. You may have a house that you haven’t cleaned for a long time, so there is a lot of dust and dirt, but it’s all sort of settled. And when you start to clean the house, you realize how dirty it was. And suddenly, there is all this dust and dirt flying and you think, Wow.

It’s like one disciple of Prabhupada’s. He actually thought he was more advanced before he became a devotee because after he became a devotee, he started to see all this dirt. So, Prabhupada explained, “The dirt was there, but it was all settled. So now, you are cleaning it so you are seeing a lot of dirt flying. You think, Oh my God, I’ve got more dirt now. Now that I’m chanting Hare Krishna, I got more dirt than I had before. But it was there. It’s coming up and it’s getting cleansed. And when your room is clean, you feel really good.”

So, you shouldn’t be discouraged, but you should just take it as it’s part of the purification. It’s good these things are coming up, and then when they come up, they can go out.

Devotee: And also, Srila Prabhupada said it’s a process, like when you are pregnant, you just can’t have the baby like that.

Giriraj Swami: The same thing, you have to be patient.

Devotee: Can I just quote Brahmananda’s favorite time? Because he answered that very well. He said Srila Prabhupada managed to love us even though we are not very lovable. So, if you remember that Prabhupada and Krishna’s love are not the kind of love we are experiencing here, that no matter what you do you are always going to be lovable to them, then you never get discouraged. So, you have to plug into different dimensions and look at things the way they look at you. And that’s why when you understand how much he loves you then you’ll be able to love him.

Giriraj Swami: Perfect!