SB 10.51–53, 11.2.30 – Success through Association

Giriraj Swami: Now, how many of you, whether newcomers or people who have been here before, how many of you would have come tonight if the building was empty? And why would you have come?

Devotee:  Gaura-ārati 

Giriraj Swami: But there wouldn’t have been any devotees.

Devotee:  I would have been here by myself, okay.

Giriraj Swami: And the others?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:00:47] temple.

Giriraj Swami: Sorry!

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:00:50] temple. I’m here more than my own house. It just feels like home here.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, that’s fine. And those who said they wouldn’t come, why wouldn’t you come? Yes.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:01:22]

Giriraj Swami: So, generally speaking, if the building were always empty, I don’t think anyone would come. The reason we come is because of the devotees, of the association of devotees. We could have everything just as it is but if there were never any devotees here, no one would come, probably. Because what gives life, is the association of devotees. And the people who said they would come because they would sing or they just feel at home here and they spend more time here than their own homes, they have come to that point because they met devotees at some stage. You met devotees, right?

Devotees:  Yes.

Giriraj Swami: And you did too. So the real thing that brings us to Krishna is the association of devotees. In fact, when we are born we really don’t know anything. We don’t have any good practices or bad practices because we are just born. But people develop good or bad practices by association. For example, a baby doesn’t smoke but later on the same person may smoke. So how did it get the idea to smoke, how did it develop the habit of smoking? It came from associating with people who smoke and say, “Oh you should try this, it’s really very good,” or even stealing. A baby doesn’t know anything about stealing, but eventually the baby might grow and meet someone who steals and who says, “Really, you should try this; it’s really good you don’t have to work, you just get. . .” And the same principle operates in relation to good practices or good habits.

So, association is really the most critical factor in any person’s life to bring him up or down. And we are specifically interested to discuss the influence of the association of devotees. Because if we start at the very basic fact of who we are, what is our actual identity, and by analysis and logic we can understand that we are not the body. For example, we say my hand, my leg, my brain, my mind. But we don’t say, I hand or I leg, because the “I” is something different from the hand and leg and other parts of the body. It owns them in a way and so we say my hand, my leg.

So, who is that “I”? It is not anything material because if it were like an automobile, say, then when a person dies we would be able to bring the person back to life if the person was just an arrangement of material ingredients. A car if it breaks down, I mean no matter how badly it is damaged or aged, if you go on replacing different parts, you’ll eventually get a machine that works again. But with the body you can’t do that. After the body is dead, whatever the problem was, say a heart attack, you can’t put a new heart in the body and then bring the person back to life.

So the reason is, because our actual identity, the real living being, is different from the body. And once that spiritual spark is gone, we say the body is dead. But actually, the body is always dead. It only appears to be alive when that spiritual spark is present and animates it. And any mechanical arrangement needs the touch of a person. Even an automobile, if there is no driver, of course I heard they are trying to invent things but leaving that aside, there has to be a person. It won’t work unless there is the touch of a person. So the car is moving because there is a driver. Once the driver leaves, I mean the car might go for a little while, then it’s going to crash.

So, our actual identity is as spirit and the nature of the spirit or ātmā, jīvātmā, is it is eternal full of knowledge and full of bliss. It’s conscious. And the nature of matter is that it’s temporary, it’s ignorant, it’s unconscious.

Now, most people in the world, I would venture to say, identify with the body. Pretty much anyone you ask, “Who are you?” they’ll say, I’m so-and-so and this and that and they act according to the basic premise that they are the body and they do everything for the benefit of the body. And that course of action does not bring them happiness. It may provide some sort of stimulation, temporary stimulation, but it doesn’t really bring lasting happiness or satisfaction.

I mentioned last time, and it’s relevant now as well, that our teacher Srila Prabhupada said that, “If you perform a mathematical calculation but you make a mistake in the first step, even if you perform all the other functions perfectly, you may get further and further away from the actual result you want because you made a mistake in the first step.” So, in the same way, if we make a mistake in the first step of who we are, and we think we are the body and then even if we do everything perfectly for the sake of the body, we’ll end up further and further away from the real happiness and satisfaction that our soul desires. And there is a whole generation, I mean, some of the earlier generations, they had to struggle a lot and work hard just to live, survive.

But our generation generally, had it relatively easy due to the work of our parents and grandparents. Then there is another generation that, they did everything that they were told would make them happy, of course based on the body. So, they got good educations and again we don’t have anything against good educations, it’s a question of what you do with it. So they got good educations and then they got good jobs or established lucrative businesses and they got beautiful attractive spouses. They had nice children and they went on fabulous holidays, and they did everything that they were told would make them happy. But guess what, they weren’t happy.

And so this led to a whole field of study, “What makes people happy?” Because all the things that they were told would make them happy, and all the things they did that they thought would make them happy didn’t make them happy.

One psychologist at Harvard University, he wrote a book called “Stumbling on Happiness.” And the idea is that we are very poor at predicting what will make us happy. If we become happy, it’s usually because we stumbled on it, not because we really could predict what would make us happy and pursued it. So, there is a prayer spoken by a great devotee in which he says that he would never be able to find real happiness. That was his apprehension. But it is possible that one can come to that position just like a log that’s being carried away by the waves of a river, can come to rest on the shore.

And in a way you could say it’s “stumbling on happiness.” Then he explains what is that good fortune, and that good fortune is the association of devotees. The association of devotees will bring you to that understanding and that process that will give you the happiness and satisfaction that you crave.

I will read some verses that make the same point in different ways. And it’s extremely important for us, because most people are under the misconception that they are the body and they are working for the sake of the body. And there are some, maybe a little more advanced, they think they are the mind and they cultivate the life of the mind.

But the mind is also material. The mind also is never satisfied. The mind is always accepting and rejecting. If you watch the movements of your mind, you will see it’s always accepting and rejecting, and it may accept something one minute, or one moment and reject the same thing the next moment. I want this; I don’t want this; we all experience it. And in that sense, the mind is like a restless child; I want this, no I don’t want that, I want this, no I don’t want that. And they are never satisfied. They are just accepting and rejecting, going from one thing to the other.

So, working on the platform of the mind also will not bring happiness or satisfaction.

When I first met my spiritual teacher, Srila Prabhupada, I was a student in Boston. And Srila Prabhupada, at that time, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, he would speak at the center. Every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, he would speak outside somewhere, usually at a university.

So, one of the first nights when I started to come to the center, he spoke at the Harvard University Divinity School. At the time, the devotees didn’t have a car. And so, I was coming every night and I had a car, so they asked if I would drive Srila Prabhupada and the devotees; it was a station-wagon, so we could fit a number of devotees in it. Somehow, I think they all squeezed in. Do they say station wagon now, or what is it called?

So, I came and Srila Prabhupada and the devotees got in the car and we went to Harvard. And Srila Prabhupada spoke. Many of the students were quite bright, at least in their estimation, and at the end Srila Prabhupada asked for questions and so many hands shot up. So one student was a bit, well I’ll let him speak for himself. So, he said to Srila Prabhupada, “You are saying that by chanting Hare Krishna, all problems will be solved.But in Russia, in the late 19th century, there were many people who would chant the name of Jesus but it didn’t really make any change. It was only when there was a revolution that things in Russia really changed.” So, he basically was saying you are advocating a false solution. The real solution is revolution.

So Srila Prabhupada replied that, “The people in Russia now, are they happy?” And the student said, “No.” And Srila Prabhupada had said, “Then what was the use of that revolution?” Because our ultimate goal is to be happy and that wasn’t the matter. And he said even if temporarily it gets better, it will again get worse because it’s the nature of the material world.

So, then another student, “You are saying that we should chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, but couldn’t you just as well repeat anything, like numbers, one two three, one two three. Couldn’t you just as well repeat anything and it would have the same effect?”

And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Of course that is not possible, but if you want you can try counting and when you get tired of counting you can try chanting.” And actually, that’s the fact, that anything material that gives us happiness will not continue to give us happiness for long. We will get tired of it.

In my youth, we used to get phonograph records. So it was a big thing for me to get a phonograph record, but I remember I would buy my favorite music, I bring it home. I’d be so happy and I’d listen to it a few times and then gradually, the happiness I got from listening to the record waned, it decreased. And I realized if I listen to it too much, I get so sick of it that I wouldn’t want to listen to it again. So then I thought, Okay, I don’t want to listen to it too much. So I’d listen a little but then when I felt I was starting to get sick of it, I’d put it away for a while so that I could take it out later and then I still might get something out of it.

But then, what was the use of that record? I’m just storing it somewhere so that it doesn’t lose its charm when I want to hear it. In other words, it’s a totally false platform of happiness, sensual happiness. Whereas with Hare Krishna, which is not a material sound, you can chant and chant and chant and you never get tired of it. You want to chant more and more and more.

So, there is a very clear practical distinction between material sound and spiritual sound. And so, some of us have been chanting for forty-five years, and we haven’t grown tired of it. In fact, we wish we had more time to chant more. So that’s the difference.

So, although Srila Prabhupada answered him in a sentence, “You can try counting and when you are tired of counting you can try chanting,” there is actually a deep philosophy behind it and personal realization.

So then, another student asked, “Have you seen God”? So Srila Prabhupada replied, “If I tell you falsely that I’ve seen God, will you believe me”? And the student said, “No.” Then Srila Prabhupada said, “What is the use of that question if you don’t want to accept the answer”?

So quite quickly, he disposed of their challenging questions and the students were stunned. It was like the room was buzzing with a sort of excitement, how the Swami had disposed of all their questions so quickly and effortlessly.

So I was sort of wandering amongst the students listening to their talk. And then suddenly, one of the devotees rushed up to me in a voice that was sort of affectionately replicating Srila Prabhupada’s accent, said, “So, where is the driver”? I go, “Oh my gosh, I have to drive Srila Prabhupada back, I completely forgot.”

So I rushed back to the car. So while driving to Harvard, it was daylight and I found it pretty easily but after the program it was dark. I didn’t really know the way back, but I thought I could figure it out. I know you went this direction, that direction. So I tried and gradually I got the sinking feeling that we were lost and getting more lost.

So finally, I sort of confessed and confessed means, I asked the other devotees, “Does anyone know the way back?” And they all said, “No, we don’t know the way back.” And then Srila Prabhupada, because I was in the driver’s seat and he was in the passenger’s seat, turning his head,  “Is not the driver supposed to know the way?” This was my ignorance and I thought well, “I didn’t know I was the driver.” I just thought I was being a good guy and offering to drive. But I didn’t know I was the driver, having to know the way.

So eventually we did find our way back but I felt bad that I had gotten us lost. So I jumped out of the car and ran across to the passenger’s door and opened it. And I said, “Srila Prabhupada, I’m very sorry that I got us lost.” And he smiled at me with such compassion and love, and he just smiled and he just said, “That’s all right.”

Now, I had just seen him dismantle these arguments of all these brilliant students, and I knew if he wanted he could have completely devastated me, but he didn’t. And I thought, “Wow, this is really something,” that he is very compassionate and kind even though he has such a perfect philosophy and such a perfect process, but he is very kind and compassionate. So then I thought, “Wow, this is really something.”

Now this year, some of you might know or might not know but, it’s the fiftieth anniversary of the founding of ISKON. And it’s sort of the fiftieth anniversary of Srila Prabhupada’s arrival in America by boat from Calcutta to Boston. So anyway, the devotee scholars are arranging a program at Harvard University Divinity School. I think they have another name, something study of not comparative religion, but religious studies. And they are going to inaugurate it in that same hall where Srila Prabhupada gave that talk in 1969.

And so, one of the main organizers, he asked me, “Were you there?” and “What happened?” and I gave him a little report. And then he said that in his visits to Harvard University he met a Muslim student who had been present at Srila Prabhupada talk. And that Muslim student went on to become a professor. But when they met him, that now Muslim professor said that whenever he is in some difficulty or crisis, although he is a Muslim and a faithful Muslim, he said he always remembers the Swami who gave that talk. It made such a deep impression on him and he said when they would be speaking to our devotees about Prabhupada, he would tear up and he just become so emotional because Srila Prabhupada had such a profound effect on him, which he didn’t expect.

And he said, “Yes it’s very odd, even though I’m a Muslim but when I’m really facing a crisis, I think of the Swami and what he said, and I think of Krishna.”

So it’s universal, it is. It’s really not sectarian because it’s the soul. The soul is the same in every body and Krishna is the name for the Supreme Soul. And there is only one Supreme Soul who is maybe known by different names, but that name Krishna is special for some reasons which we could discuss but it’s a special name, Krishna. So yes, he feels that connection just from that one talk of Srila Prabhupada.

So that’s the power of association with the devotee, pure devotee. And that’s why we have these centers really to offer that association. Of course, this is an especially nice building, nicely painted and decorated, but you could replicate the building, but without devotees there would be no attraction. So it’s really the association.

So I’ll just read a few verses. I won’t really speak on them but I feel they sort of encapsulate some of the principles we just discussed.

This is Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta  Madhya-līlā Chapter Twenty-two, Text eighty-three.

TEXT 83

kṛṣṇa-bhakti-janma-mūla haya ‘sādhu-saṅga’
kṛṣṇa-prema janme, teṅho punaḥ mukhya aṅga

TRANSLATION

“The root cause of devotional service to Lord Kṛṣṇa is association with advanced devotees. Even when one’s dormant love for Kṛṣṇa awakens, association with devotees is still most essential.

TEXT 84

bhavāpavargo bhramato yadā bhavej
janasya tarhy acyuta sat-samāgamaḥ
sat-saṅgamo yarhi tadaiva sad-gatau
parāvareśe tvayi jāyate ratiḥ

TRANSLATION

“ ‘O my Lord! O infallible Supreme Person! When a person wandering throughout the universes becomes eligible for liberation from material existence, he gets an opportunity to associate with devotees. When he associates with devotees, his attraction for You is awakened. You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead — the highest goal of the topmost devotees, and the Lord of the universe.’

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This is a quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.51.53).

COMMENT

And one last one.

TEXT 85

ata ātyantikaṁ kṣemaṁ
pṛcchāmo bhavato ‘naghāḥ
saṁsāre ‘smin kṣaṇārdho ‘pi
sat-saṅgaḥ sevadhir nṛṇām

TRANSLATION

“ ‘O devotees! O you who are free from all sins! Let me inquire from you about that which is supremely auspicious for all living entities. Association with a pure devotee for even half a moment in this material world is the greatest treasure for human society.’

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This is a quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.2.30).

COMMENT

So, all of us are extremely fortunate to have come to this place where we can associate with devotees and have our inclination to live a spiritual life, which is really the only way that we will get real happiness and satisfaction, where that can be supported. Ordinary association will just reinforce the illusion that you are the body and that by getting material things for the body you’ll be happy. Which is not a fact, it’s just an illusion.

So, we all need that support in any endeavor. There are so many associations, because association is necessary to achieve any goal. So, there is the Bar Association, I guess for people who go to bars, no, practice law. And yes, there is American Medical, so there is association for everything—chamber of commerce, stock exchange, because the association will further the aims of that group of people, further their interests.

But the real interest is to revive our eternal natures as spirit souls and our loving relationship with the Supreme Soul. And so, this association will further that aim. And that aim, if achieved, will really satisfy us. And all the others, even if they are successful in their endeavors in the material field, it won’t really bring them the peace and happiness that they want.

So, thank you for coming and keep coming. Don’t leave, or don’t leave too much. So Hare Krishna. Are there any comments or questions?

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Sometimes we may be trying to improve our spiritual lives, improve our inner lives and then we find ourselves having conflicts with other people. Perhaps even devotees that generate feelings that are incompatible with our spiritual goals. So what do we do when we have feelings like that, that seem out of place?

Giriraj Swami: Well in general, if some feeling is inappropriate or potentially damaging, we should not act on it, because acting on it will make things worse. So, the Bhagavad-gītā advises and practical experience also teaches us it’s better to tolerate. Sometimes they recommend you take a deep breath and count to ten, but don’t just react. Because we need the support of devotees in particular, and even with people who are not. . . I mean ultimately everyone is a devotee by nature. That’s their spiritual nature to be devoted to God, but they may not be aware of it. So, with everyone really, we should avoid unnecessary conflict, so that we can peacefully proceed with our spiritual progress. And it’s for a higher purpose, it’s not worth it. I mean, if you know something is going to bring a bad result, then why indulge in it?

It is an intricate subject, but in general, we should try to see the good in others and appreciate the good in others. And if we see faults, it might indicate that we have some fault. It’s like, I’m very expert at detecting that fault in others because I have the same fault within me, so I know the fault very well. So, when I see it in others, instead of just, “Oh terrible,” I should think, ”Well, how do you know what that fault looks like? Because it’s inside of you.” So, instead of trying to focus on the other person’s fault, why not focus on the fault that’s inside of you and try to improve yourself? That would be more constructive.

One of my fellow colleagues, you could say fellow disciple of Srila Prabhupada, he gave a course, a spiritual course and he gave the students some homework. Part of the homework was to avoid criticizing devotees. And so he asked them when they came to class the next day, to report how they did. So he asked, and one of the students said, “I really wanted to avoid criticizing devotees, but it was just in the atmosphere.”

So Bhurijana Prabhu said, “Well then, you have two choices, one is to change the atmosphere. Now, if you want to change the atmosphere, “good luck” because the atmosphere doesn’t want to change. The other alternative is, you yourself know what’s right. And regardless of what’s in the atmosphere, you just do what you know is right and don’t do what you know is wrong. and that’s more practical.”

So yes, ultimately, we need the support of devotees and within the association of devotees we should have a culture of respect and appreciation. But even if we come into a situation where there is some unnecessary talk about others, and we are not able to really change it, if we can change it, that’s very good. But if we can’t change it, then we should at least not participate in it, but seek association with devotees who support our mood, or just come to a secluded place, chant, and pray. We can’t live without devotees. Spiritually, we cannot survive without devotees, so we should learn how to live together peacefully.

Any other questions or comments, yes?

Devotee: I’m asking for myself. You have been practicing for over forty-five years, you mentioned sixty-nine so I say over forty-five years. So, when you chant, and I’m assuming that sometimes you are really, Krishna is just giving you everything and you are very happy and then sometimes you are, I’m just assuming, correct me if I’m wrong, but sometimes maybe you are going through a harder period. So, what do you do if you are going through a lower period of chanting, or is it always bliss?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the principle is that with chanting and everything, but specifically with chanting, that we should do the best we possibly can at that moment. Now, you know that, I’m just making this up, say I get back late tonight. So, I could get up early but I might be tired, so the chanting won’t be as good. Or I’ll sleep later so I’m rested, but then too, the chanting may not be as good because starting later and it’s better to chant earlier.

So, there may be differences of situations. I may get some news and that news is on my mind. There may be some difficulty somewhere, but the principle is, that I should do the best I possibly can at that moment. It might not be the best I’ve ever done, but I should do the best I possibly can at that moment. And that means to articulate the words to the mantra clearly and to try to listen to every mantra, every word, every syllable. And if the mind wanders, to try to bring it back to the sound of the holy name and starting from there we are doing the best we can at that moment and then in a little while we may be able to do better than we were doing and still better.

Sometimes, because ultimately it all depends on mercy, I mean we have to make our effort but it does depend on mercy. Sometimes we might find that we get more mercy when we least expect it. One devotee told me that he always wanted to make sure his physical situation, bodily condition, physical surroundings, everything was congenial and pleasant as possible. And then one day he was just suffering so much, that I can’t recall why. He had some physical ailment and he was really suffering. And he said that was some of the best chanting he ever did.

So, it’s sort of, we can’t really predict what will make us happy, what will be favorable, but yes, just do the best we possibly can at that moment.

So, it is eight o’clock and twenty nine minutes and twenty-nine seconds, something like that. So, we have thirty seconds. Would someone like to guide us as to what’s going to happen next?