NOI – How to Succeed—and Fail—in Krishna Consciousness

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: So, it is a great pleasure and honor and privilege to be with all of you again in this beautiful temple. Tonight, we will discuss two very important topics: how to be successful in Krishna consciousness, and how to fail in Krishna consciousness. Now, how many of you want to be successful in Krishna consciousness? And how many of you act in ways that may not be favorable for your success in Krishna consciousness?

So, we need to develop faith, ādau śraddhā, we need to develop faith that by becoming Krishna conscious, all of our needs will be met, all of our desires will be fulfilled. And therefore, we should be very eager to know how we can be successful, and what we should avoid that will cause us to be less successful or unsuccessful.

So, the basis of tonight’s discussion will be The Nectar of Instruction. It is a small book written by Srila Rupa Gosvami and translated by Srila Prabhupada. And to help us go deeper in The Nectar of Instruction, we will also refer to Sri Bhaktya Loka. As I mentioned in the morning, Srila Rupa Gosvami mentions six items that assure the complete success of devotional service, ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati, and he also mentions six items that will spoil or ruin our devotional service, ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati. And Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, in his wisdom and compassion, wrote twelve essays, one on each of the six items that assure our success in Krishna consciousness, and one essay for each of the six items that will spoil our Krishna consciousness.

So, one of the items that is favorable for devotional is dhairyāt, utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt. Who knows what dhairyāt means? Yes?

Devotee: Patience.

Giriraj Swami: Patience, yes, patience. So, we’ll read what Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says and discuss.

READING from Śrī Bhaktyā Loka

“For the practitioner of devotional service, dhairyāt, patience, is extremely necessary.”

COMMENT

It is. . .? I just read it.

READING (continued)

“For the practitioner of devotional service, dhairyāt, patience, is. . .”

Devotees: Extremely necessary.

COMMENT

Yes, so is paying attention.

READING (continued)

“Those who possess the quality of dhairyāt are called dhīra, sober. Due to lack of this quality, men become restless. Those who are impatient cannot do any work.”

COMMENT

Now, what does this mean? “Those who are impatient cannot do any work.” There are many people who drive to work and get stuck in traffic, and they become impatient, but they still go to work, and they can do work. So, when Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that those who are impatient cannot do any work it doesn’t mean material work, it means the internal work that we have to do as sādhakas, or practitioners. In fact, Sri Bhaktya Loka is specifically addressed to sādhakas, or practitioners. So, without the quality of patience, you cannot do any internal work, real work, because we’ll be too impatient, we’ll be too restless, we won’t want to see the process through.

READING (continued)

“By the quality of dhairyāt, a practitioner controls first himself, and then the whole world.”

COMMENT

So, this sentence also can use some explanation. One of our acharyas, one of the Six Gosvamis, Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, was born the only son of two very wealthy brothers, Hiranya Majumdar and Govardhana Majumdar, and their monthly income then was equal to millions of dollars today, and they placed all their hopes on Raghunatha dasa. So, they were pious, it is said that practically the whole brahman community of Bengal was being maintained by their generosity. And they had as a family priest or guru Yadunandana Acharya, and also Balarama Acharya. Yadunandana Acharya was a disciple of Advaita Acharya. So, they would organize gatherings, satsaṅgas with Haridasa Thakura.

So, Haridasa Thakura was staying nearby as a guest of Balarama Acharya, and Govardhana and Hiranya thought, We should send our boy, he was just a young boy, Raghunatha to Haridasa Thakura to get blessings. And many people want blessings, I mean, it’s just an observation. I can give a class on pure devotional service and afterwards, people will come up and say they want blessings, “I’m looking for an apartment.” “I have a pain in my left toe.” So, generally, people’s idea of blessings means some material reward or benefit.

So, Govardhana and Hiranya were exceedingly wealthy, and so they loaded up wagons with valuable gifts for Haridasa Thakura, and they were thinking, If we give him all these valuable presentations, he’ll give a really good blessing to our son. Because ātmavān mannete jagat, they were thinking in their mentality, that he would respond to their material offerings, but Haridasa Thakura had no interest in such gifts or in giving material blessings. So, Govardhana and Hiranya sent many guards and employees, servants to accompany Raghunatha, and they gave all the gifts and wanted a blessing.

So, Haridasa Thakura said, “I will give you a blessing.” Now, Balarama Acharya knew the nature of Haridasa Thakura, he would not give any material blessing, in fact, to the contrary. And so, he didn’t want Govardhana and Hiranya to be disappointed. So, when Haridasa Thakura was just about to pronounce the blessing, he made a loud noise so no one can hear the blessing.

(Giriraj Swami imitates the noise)

So, okay, everything went well. And so, Raghunatha and all the guards and servants went back, and Govardhana and Hiranya were very eager to know, “So, did Haridasa Thakura give a blessing? Did he give my son a blessing?” And they said, “I think so.” “Well, what was the blessing? What was the blessing?” And they said, “Oh, I don’t know what the blessing was, I couldn’t hear it.”

So, Balarama Acharya, of course, was very intelligent, so he said, “The blessing was that your son, Raghunatha, will control the whole world.” And they were so happy, they were thinking, We just controlled this little tract in Bengal and we are so wealthy, and he is going to control the whole world, we can’t even imagine how wealthy he’ll be.

Now, this statement that he would control the world is not really untrue, although that was not exactly the blessing. The blessing was that he would have nothing to do with the material world, but the thing is that if you have no attachment to the material world, the material world cannot control you, nothing in the material world can control you, and so ultimately, you are in control.

So, this statement of Bhaktivinoda Thakura that one who is dhairyāt, who can control these six urges can control first himself and then the world is true in the sense that the world or the things of the world cannot control him or her, and therefore, he can engage everything in the world in the service of the Lord. And that is the meaning of the verse, dhīra.

READING (continued)

“By the quality of dhairyāt, a practitioner controls first himself, and then the whole world. In the first verse of Sri Upadeśāmṛta, the symptoms of dhairyāt are explained.”

COMMENT

If you know, you can join me.

READING (continued)

vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ

jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam

etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

sarvām apīmāṁ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt

A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind’s demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.

COMMENT

So, a sober person, dhīra, viṣaheta dhīraḥ, and he can make disciples all over the world because he won’t be under the control of the demands of his body, he won’t be under the control of anything of the world, and therefore, he can help his disciples. If someone wants to exploit someone for his own benefit, growth, or self-sense gratification, how can he really think of the welfare of the person? But someone who’s in control of himself and dhīra, sober, without being influenced by material things, he can actually be a genuine well-wisher and friend.

READING (continued)

“There are six types of urges, namely; the urges of speech, mind, anger, belly, tongue, and genitals.”

COMMENT

But the first is vāco vegaṁ, which is. . .

Devotees: Speech.

READING (continued)

“If speech is not regulated, then enmity arises from talking about others.”

COMMENT

Now, this happens, we’ll say something bad about someone, and we may tell a confidential friend, “I’m telling you, but don’t tell anyone else, but. . .” And all the things about the person. So, that confidential friend thinks, Well, I was that person’s confidential friend who told me, so I also have my confidential friend, so I can tell my confidential friend. . .Then the second confidential friend, “Well, she told me because I’m her confidential friend, so let me tell my confidential friend.”

And eventually, it can get back to the person, and so enmity arises, and there are layers of enmity because it may get back to the first person, and then he’ll think, Who squealed? I told him not to tell anyone. So then, there is another layer of enmity, and it goes on and on and on.

And if we think about it, there is a psychology involved in speaking about others, and generally, the psychology is that we want to make ourselves look better by making others look worse. There can be more also because quite often that confidential information might have been shared with you by the person you are talking about, so you are sort of advertising the fact that you are a confidential friend of that person and that person confided in you about his problems or her problems. And anyway, it just goes on and on. But this is a basic principle, if speech is unregulated, it creates enmity.

READING (continued)

“If speech is not regulated, then enmity arises from talking about others. To speak uselessly is the business of a fool; but out of a desire to unnecessarily engage in speech, the materialists always waste time and face so many distresses. Pious people observe mauna-vrata, or silence, in order to get rid of this disturbance.”

COMMENT

Mauna-vrata means they don’t speak, but as Srila Prabhupada has pointed out, and I’ve actually seen people who are observing mauna-vrata, they’ll carry a tablet, well, in those days, I mean, it was a chalk tablet, and now I guess there is other kinds of tablets. And they don’t speak but their mind is working, and you can speak to them, and then they’ll write the answer on the tablet so they are not really silent. So, being silent is really not practical, the real options are whether we speak in a way that’s favorable for devotional service, for our well-being, the well-being of others, or which is unfavorable.

READING (continued)

“The practitioners of devotional service should not speak unnecessarily. Besides topics regarding Krishna, all other topics are unnecessary. But to speak about the subjects favorable to devotional service is not unnecessary. Therefore, devotees should speak only on topics about Lord Hari or those favorable to such topics. All other topics will be counted in the category of the urge to speak. One who is able to control the urge to speak is a sober person.”

COMMENT

So, this is positive, we should have patience, we should work on ourselves. It means to control these six urges, tolerate them or control them. And there is another meaning to dhairyāt, which we’ll come back to. But on the subject of controlling the urge to speak, in the six items that spoil devotional service, one relates to speech. And who can say what that one is?

Devotees: Prajalpaḥ.

Giriraj Swami: Prajalpaḥ. Who knows what prajalpaḥ is? All right, so if you don’t know it by name, you know it by species probably, unfortunately. So, prajalpaḥ. Now, there are different categories of prajalpaḥ, but we are going to focus on one that is very relevant to us in particular, and that is talking about other people. And of all the things he could have said about controlling the urge to speak, that was the one he mentioned, that by speech, which is not regulated and materialized.

READING (continued)

“Talking without reason about other people is extremely adverse to devotional service.”

COMMENT

What is adversity?

Devotee: Unfavorable.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, unfavorable, contrary.

READING (continued)

“Many people talk about others to establish their own reputation. Being envious, some people are accustomed to discuss others’ character.”

COMMENT

So, actually, we are here in the material world because of the envy of Krishna, and that envy extends to everyone else. We come into the material world, really, with the desire to be Krishna, or to take the place of Krishna. And every conditioned soul has that underlying mentality that he wants to be Krishna. So, we are living in a world that is inhabited by people who are all trying to take the place of Krishna, so they are competitors of God, and they are competitors of each other who are competitors of God.

Our godbrother Bhurijana Prabhu says that it’s like every one of us is going around and within us, of course, we won’t say it, but within us, what we really want to say is, “Excuse me, I have an important announcement to make. I am the center of the universe and everyone should do just what I want for my pleasure and satisfaction.” So, everyone is walking around with that mentality, and so what will be the situation? It’s like everyone is competing.

Another example is that we each envision life as a drama in which we are the hero or the heroine, and we want everyone else to be the supporting cast to make us glorious and successful as the hero or heroine. And if someone doesn’t act the way we want, we get upset, “You are not playing your part properly, and I’m the hero, you are supposed to be supporting me.” And so, we have all these heroes and heroines upset with the supporting cast for not playing their roles properly. So, it’s quite a situation.

READING (continued)

“Being envious, some people are accustomed to discuss others’ character.”

COMMENT

We think by putting them down, we’ll look better and we are just envious of them, we think we should get all the glory, we should have all the facility, whatever.

READING (continued)

“The minds of those who are busy in such topics can never be fixed on the lotus feet of Krishna. Talking about others should be rejected in all respects.”

COMMENT

I’ll read it again.

READING (continued)

“The minds of those who are busy in such topics can never be fixed on the lotus feet of Krishna.”

COMMENT

When we chant in particular, well, I mean, whatever we do, let’s say when we chant in particular, we are trying to fix our mind on the lotus feet of Krishna in the form of the holy name, and if we’ve been engaged in talking about others, that will affect our chanting, we can feel it. When we are actually serious about chanting, we can perceive how our mind is affected by speaking about others. And so, we really try to avoid it, we really make every effort to avoid it. And there are situations that are awkward where you might wonder, How can I avoid it? But we have techniques, there are ways to avoid it without offending the person who wants to engage in this type of prajalpaḥ.

READING (continued)

“Talking about others should be rejected in all respects. But in the practice of devotional service, there are many favorable topics that are faultless, even though they are about others.”

COMMENT

What’s an example of a faultless topic about others?

Devotee: Glorifying devotees.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, glorifying devotees, appreciating devotees, exactly.

READING (continued)

“In order to completely renounce talking about others, one needs to live in the forest. The two different types of practicing devotees are the householders and the renunciates. Because the renunciates have no business whatsoever with sense enjoyment, they can give up talking about others in all respects. But because a householder is engaged in earning, saving, protecting, and maintaining family members, he cannot completely give up talking about others.”

COMMENT

And because we are in a preaching movement, it may be that a renunciate has an institution or a project that also involves earning, saving, protecting, and so on. So, he may follow the guidelines that are being offered here for householders.

READING (continued)

“Because a householder is engaged in earning, saving, protecting, and maintaining the family, he cannot completely give up talking about others. It is best for him to live in a Krishna conscious family. When all one’s material activities are related with Krishna, then even his unavoidable talk about others becomes sinless and a part of devotional practice in relation to Krishna. He should not talk about others in a way that is detrimental to anyone. He should talk about others only whatever little is necessary in his Krishna conscious family.”

COMMENT

That can apply to our spiritual family.

READING (continued)

“He should not talk about others without reason.”

COMMENT

We are so accustomed to speaking casually about others, criticizing others without even thinking about it, so we have to be conscious. Prabhupada said, “First become conscious, then become Krishna conscious.” So, we have to become conscious of this talking about others and we should not talk about others without reason.

READING (continued)

“He should not talk about others without reason.”

COMMENT

In other words, there should be some sort of process between what goes on in our mind and what comes out of our mouth, there should be some filtering process. I mean, at this stage, when our minds are completely filled with Krishna, then like gopīs.

When Uddhava went to meet the gopīs in Vrindavan after Krishna had gone to Mathura, the gopīs had so many complaints about Krishna. Of course, this was on the highest platform of ecstatic love, but they had so many complaints about Krishna, not only in His present incarnation, but even in previous incarnations. So many misdeeds they perceived in Krishna. So, Uddhava said, “You are saying Krishna is this, Krishna is that, He is so bad. Why do you go out talking about it?” And they said, “We can live without Krishna. If Krishna can live without us, we can live without Him, but we can’t live without talking about Him.”

So, when our mind is so filled with Krishna that the only thing that can come out of our mouth is Krishna, then we don’t need to worry about filtering. But when we have different things in our mind, we should be conscious before we speak and think, Is this beneficial for me or others, or not? 

READING (continued)

“When a guru enlightens his disciple on some topic, then unless he occasionally talks about others, his instruction may not be clear.”

COMMENT

In the morning, we read about Madhavendra Puri’s final days, and how Ramachandra Puri was an offender and the consequences of his offenses, and how Isvara Puri had faithfully served his spiritual master of the consequences of his behavior. One became a fault finder of Vaishnavas, and the other became a lover of God. So, the two examples were offered to make the point clear, what happens, yasya prasadad, by the mercy of the spiritual master, yasyaprasadan, nothing could happen.

So, a guru may occasionally have to speak about others to make the point clear, but we should be sure that if we do speak about others, the intention is only for the benefit of all concerned and that there is no malice or envy or hatred or other things that could be impelling us.

READING (continued)

“When previous mahājanas have talked about others in this way, there is merit in such talk, not fault.”

COMMENT

And there are different categories, we will not discuss them, but one category is you can talk about a group of people. Like Śukadeva Gosvami, the most saintly of all saintly persons, he talks about envious householders, they spend their days making money and spending money. So, you can speak about a broad group, you can speak about an individual person without naming the person. Maybe someone would recognize who the person is or maybe not, but you are speaking about a specific person, but you are not naming, or you could even speak about a specific person and name him, these are all different categories. But the ultimate conclusion is that one should not speak about others without reason, and it should be only for the benefit of all.

READING (continued)

“This is not prajalpaḥ. The practicing devotee normally discusses ancient history in the association of devotees. Occasionally, they talk about non-devotees. Such talk is always auspicious and favorable. But those who talk about others while influenced by devotional impediments such as envy, hatred, pride, or distinction are offenders at the feet of Bhakti devi.”

COMMENT

So, it may happen, and this is common in impersonalists, but it could be true even of devotees, that one hears that one should not speak about others, and one should not speak about others, but some devotee may be speaking about others with reason, but you could mistakenly think, He is speaking about others, he is guilty. So, we really have to be careful about that too, and maybe inquire, “For what reason are you discussing this?” There may be some reason or there may not be, you could clarify it.

In Sri Harināma-cintāmaṇi, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura discusses the first offense against the holy name, which is sādhu-nindā, blaspheming devotees, and he discusses who is a devotee, who is a sadhu. Sādhu-nindā. Who is a sadhu? Who is a devotee? And who is not a devotee? Because to know who is a sādhu-nindā, you have to know who is a devotee and who’s not a devotee, and sometimes someone who’s not a devotee might be commonly accepted as a devotee. There are many popular figures in India who are accepted as devotees, as saintly persons, but who may not actually be so.

So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that one should avoid the association of people who engage in sādhu-nindā. But if someone is speaking with reason about someone who’s not a devotee, and if someone else thinks the person is a devotee and shouldn’t be blaspheming, then that person should be avoided.

I’ll give an example to make it more clear. Srila Prabhupada had a friend named Dr. C.P. Patel who would always accompany Srila Prabhupada on his morning walks. And Dr. Patel was a bit proud, he was a medical doctor, he had studied in London, and back then, it was quite rare that someone from India could study in London. But not only had he studied in London, but he had maintained his good principles as a Vaishnava; no eating meat, all the regulated principles, he maintained. Anyway, he used to come every morning and walk with Srila Prabhupada and they would discuss quite freely on many topics. If you get a chance to hear Srila Prabhupada’s morning walks on Juhu beach, you’ll probably hear Srila Prabhupada and Dr. Patel.

So, one morning, Dr. Patel began to praise one of the so-called religious leaders of India, and Srila Prabhupada began to very decisively criticize that so-called spiritual leader, and somehow, that really upset Dr. Patel and he began criticizing Srila Prabhupada for criticizing the so-called spiritual leader. So, Srila Prabhupada was saying, “I’m not saying, Krishna is saying, na mā duktino mûhāprapadyante narādhamā. If you don’t surrender to Krishna, you come in these different categories, duktino-miscreant, mûhā–fool, na mā duktino mûhāprapadyante, narādhamā-lowest of mankind, māyayāpahta-jṣānā-someone who’s in maya, whose knowledge has been stolen by maya. I’m not saying, Krishna is saying.”

So, the argument became very heated. . .

“I think we should stop this thing, it’s distracting at this stage. Just listen.” (Giriraj Swami to the devotees in the room)

So, they were actually shouting at each other. And Dr. Patel’s friends, they were usually quite sort of submissive to him because he was their leader, but even they were telling him, “Swamiji has a heart condition, you shouldn’t have upset him so much.” And they were physically trying to pull him away. And it was like in a boxing ring, it was like they are going at each other, the bell rings, the round is over, they keep going at each other, and the referee is trying to separate them, and their own people from their corners trying to drag them away.

So, that went on, and then Srila Prabhupada said, “Okay, now no more discussions on the morning walks, we’ll just read Kṛṣṇa book.” And for the first time in years, Dr. Patel didn’t come to accompany Srila Prabhupada. And as Dr. Patel describes it, maybe two days later, very soon thereafter, Prabhupada was walking on one edge of the beach and Dr. Patel was walking on the other, maybe Prabhupada was closer to the ocean, Dr. Patel was closer to the land. And Dr. Patel said that he felt something in his heart just forced him to go to Srila Prabhupada and bow at his lotus feet.

And so, he just helplessly went to Srila Prabhupada, and he bowed down, and he said, “Prabhupada, I’m sorry. But I’ve just been taught to respect all the accredited saints of India.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, and I have been taught to say who is a saint and who is not a saint.”

So, sometimes the guru has to do that, he has to make things clear, but there is never any malice or ill intent, it’s just for the sake of instruction, and perhaps helping us to break false attachments to wrong types of people.

So, there is just one other little point, and I’ll leave time for discussion. Another definition of dhairyāt.

READING (continued)

“There is another meaning applicable to the word dhairyāt.”

COMMENT

And this is very important, and especially in a community of devotees who’ve been practicing bhakti-yoga for many years, decades.

READING (continued)

“There is another meaning applicable to the word dhairyāt. Those who engage in sadhana desire to attain the results. Karmis hope to attain heavenly happiness by fruitive activities.”

COMMENT

You follow this language? Yes.

READING (continued)

“Jnanis hope to attain liberation by speculative knowledge, and devotees hope to please Krishna by their devotion.”

COMMENT

So, ordinary materialists, they want to attain heavenly happiness, and even within the Vedic system, they perform sacrifices to attain heavenly happiness. And jnanis, impersonal speculators, they want to get liberation and merge and become one with God. And devotees, they also have a desire, their desire is to please Krishna, and pleasing Krishna in a way is not so easy. I mean, there are different degrees of pleasing Krishna, but once, someone asked Srila Prabhupada, “How do we know if Krishna’s pleased?” And Srila Prabhupada said that when you see Krishna, you’ll know that He is pleased. Or like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said, “Don’t try to see Krishna but act in such a way that Krishna wants to see you.”

So, what kind of devotional service do we have to perform that Krishna will want to see us, that Krishna will come, He’ll manifest Himself to us? That’s pretty pure devotional service, pretty ecstatic devotion. But then other times, I guess if the spiritual master’s pleased, Krishna’s pleased. There are other definitions, but let’s return to this.

READING (continued)

“Karmis hope to attain heavenly happiness by fruitive activities, jnanis hope to attain liberation by speculative knowledge, and devotees hope to please Krishna by their devotion. Being impatient due to prolonged sadhana, some people fall from the path to the ultimate goal.”

COMMENT

“Oh, I’ve been practicing so long, I don’t have love for Krishna, I don’t have ecstatic feelings.” And then they give it up, it’s not working. “The process doesn’t work or it’s not working for me, it might work for you, that’s okay, it’s not working for me, I’m going to try something else.”

And His Holiness Sacinandana Swami gave the example, I mean, I’m applying it to patience in this definition, but he gave the example in a little different context, but it’s the same point. And that is that say you are digging for water, so you go down three feet and you don’t get water, so you think, Oh, there is no water here. So then, you think, Okay, let me go to Rasika Vaishnava one. And then you go down three feet and there you think, Now I’m really going to get it. You go down three feet, you don’t get anything. So then, you go to Rasika Vaishnava to the tenth power, and you go down another three feet, Oh, there is nothing here.

And you just keep going here and there, and it could be anything, I mean, it could be anything. But if you would have been patient and just kept going deeper where you are, you are going to get water. But you are impatient, you are going hither and hither. And going hither and hither could mean many things, somehow or other falling from the path, or somehow going off the path at least. So, it’s better to be patient and just go deep. And now, Bhaktivinoda Thakura will tell us what the mood of a patient devotee is.

READING (continued)

“Being impatient due to prolonged sadhana, some people fall from the path to the ultimate goal; therefore, a practicing devotee who wishes to achieve his goal attains that result only when he becomes patient. “Krishna must be merciful to me either today or tomorrow or after one hundred years or in some other birth. I will take shelter of His lotus feet with determination and never leave.” This type of dhairyāt, patience, is most desirable for the practitioners of devotional service.”

COMMENT

So, I’ll conclude with one other pastime on this point of patience. Once, Lord Chaitanya, at Srivasa Thakura’s home, was calling forward different devotees and giving them benedictions one after the other. But one of the devotees who was quite intimate with the Lord and His devotees was Mukunda, and the Lord didn’t call him, and one by one, He was calling everyone else, but not Mukunda.

So, one of the devotees, maybe Srivasa Thakura, he said, “Mukunda is Your dear devotee, why aren’t You calling him? You are calling everyone else.” And He said, “Mukunda, when he is with us, he talks like a Vaishnava, but when he is with the Mayavadis, he talks like one of them. It’s like with one hand he is offering Me a lotus flower, and with the other hand he is hitting Me on the head with a club. I will never call him.”

So, they conveyed the message to Mukunda who was waiting outside, and Mukunda said, “Well, that’s all right, He is punishing me, I deserve that punishment. But will He never call me? Will He never invite me back into His association?” So, they conveyed that, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Yes, after ten million lifetimes.” So, when Mukunda heard that, he became jubilant, “The Lord will call me, He will invite me back into His association in ten million lifetimes.” But he wasn’t worried about the ten million lifetimes, all he cared about was that one day, the Lord would accept him. And he began to literally dance in ecstasy.

And Lord Chaitanya, being the Super Soul in everyone’s heart, understood how much faith Mukunda actually had in Him. First, he admitted his mistake, he didn’t consider himself to be an innocent victim, he accepted he was wrong, and he accepted the punishment. But he was hoping for some mercy, and when he heard ten million lifetimes, that wasn’t a big thing but, “The Lord will call me into His presence again,” that’s what he heard and he was so happy.

And Lord Chaitanya, being in Mukunda’s heart, understood how much faith he had, and He said, “Call Mukunda immediately.” So, ten million lifetimes, because of that quality of dhairyāt, patience, and patience is based on faith, it became reduced to one minute. And Mukunda was in ecstasy, he could hardly even hear it when they were telling him that Lord Chaitanya was calling him. So, that’s the virtue of patience, that ten million lifetimes became reduced to a few seconds.

So, this topic is very intricate, there are many, many cases, sort of complicated cases that we could discuss. I mean, I’m sure many of you have questions that I could address without you even asking, but I think it’s better to let you ask or comment, and we’ll use our time in that way. Yes, Janmashtami Prabhu?

Devotee: Regarding talking about others with reason, when someone’s involved with management and pushing a movement, there is necessarily discrimination, who does what? And what particular skills a person has? Or qualities? Or maybe disqualification? How can that be done in a way that always remains favorable?

Giriraj Swami: That’s a very good point, and we do need to do that. The main thing, of course, is our intention, are we really thinking of the welfare of everyone? And if our hearts are clean and we are not impelled by envy, hatred, and other such impediments, then we can do that without causing offense. And what I’ve seen, not even seen because I really haven’t been in management for quite a while, but what I’ve heard is that devotees will find some individual to be unsuited to a particular service, rightly or wrongly, but here we’ll say rightly, but they don’t think what will the devotee do instead, which is a very big defect, huge defect.

Once, maybe twenty years ago when I was involved in management, I happened to visit my parents’ home, and the radio was on, and there was a major discussion about how organizations treat employees who they are letting go. And they were discussing it quite at length and in quite detail how they should provide for their employees after they leave, or in the period of transition so that they are not lost.

So, that’s just one example, that we should think of the welfare of everyone involved and not just the service that we are trying to get accomplished at a particular time. But otherwise, in and of itself, it’s true, we do have to see what’s best for the person, what’s best for the service, what’s best for the mission.

Would anyone else like to contribute on this topic?

Devotee: Maharaja, you gave a very nice class. I was remembering one of your lectures few years back, you were talking about Vallabha Bhatt, how he indirectly forced Gadadhara Pandit to hear. So, in that lecture, you mentioned many things including Morarji Desai’s relation with Prabhupada.

And so, I was thinking that sometimes it is not possible to avoid in a circumstance from a close relative or friend, not to hear, remember it is ill motive or some intention may be bad, and how to maybe properly take it in the heart, maybe he should be checked or advised by you and others.

At the same time, I remember also in one lecture of Radhanath Maharaja on Rāmāyaṇa that how Kaikeyi was hearing from Manthara. And there was not much choice she had at that time, but she was not judged on that, that she heard from Manthara, but she was criticized by the different acharyas that she did not take any other person’s opinion to see what Manthara said or how to see that whether it is applicable. So, as a result, because she was on her own decision, she decided to believe everything she heard, her kindness became cruel, she was very gentle, she became harsh, she was very wise, she became fool through her actions. So, in that reference, I’m just practically asking what you are suggesting.

Giriraj Swami: Well, you made very good points in the course of your question, but just to deal with the general question, what if someone approaches us to speak about others? How do we deal with it? So, one simple approach would be when the person begins, before he or she goes too far, you say, “Do I really need to hear this?” And that will make the person stop and think, Now, does he really need to hear this? Probably not. And then, he might think further, Do I really need to say this? Probably not. Different devotees respond in different ways, they have different approaches.

There is one book distributor in Los Angeles named Gauri dasi who was very elevated, and whenever someone would approach her and begin by saying, “Did you hear about so and so?” “Oh yeah, I did, that person distributed so many books the other day, that person did such a nice decoration of the Deities.” She would immediately turn the topic to glorification of the devotee. And sometimes somebody would say, “I’m sorry but I have my rounds to chant.” And you don’t reject the person, “I have my rounds to chant, but if you want, you can chant with me. I have my quote of reading. If you like, you can join me.” And if they join you, it’s good, and if they walk away, at least it’s not bad for you.

Again, it really depends on the mood. If their mood is malicious, then we really can’t entertain them, but if they are just upset about something, they may need to get it off their chest with someone. And so, as a friend, it depends on the mood, but if they are just upset and want to tell someone, you can listen to it, or you might be upset.

And this is where I think that the example of Kaikeyi not consulting is very relevant. You can consult someone else, “I’m seeing this in this person, but is it me? Am I just envious? Am I just projecting my own faults onto the other person? Or is there really something there?” And by approaching a more mature devotee, maybe a more pure, I can get some insight into the other person. And actually, it’s not like what you are thinking or something else. Well, what you are saying is there but it’s like spots on the moon, it’s really very insignificant, or it might even be serious, “Actually, he does have that problem, and now that you mention it, maybe I’ll speak to him.” But take it to someone who is able to guide you in your perception of the other person’s fault.

And that’s why it’s so important, guhyam akhyati prcchati, to be able to reveal your mind in confidence. And that brings us back to controlling the urge to speak. We need to be able to reveal our mind in confidence to people without fear that they’ll repeat what I told them. Because I may have a question about a very senior devotee, it’s a sincere question, I’m confused, I mean, I’m seeing this, I just don’t know, so I need to consult someone. But if we don’t keep confidence in our confidential discussions, then people will be afraid to confide, and then they’ll miss that guidance that could help them. So, confidentiality is very important, very important, that’s part of controlling the urge to speak.

Devotee: Maharaja, may I have a question?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. It’s not really a question. I just remembered something my father used to often say. I remember the quote that my father used to repeat, and it is appropriate here. It went, “There is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us, that it still behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us.”

Giriraj Swami: Haribol! That’s beautiful, that’s beautiful. Yes, one-two-three.

Devotee: Maharaja, it says that if we do offense or commit offense, the only rectification is to glorify that devotee. But over the years, what I’ve said with devotees, I don’t know how many people are offended, I don’t even know who I offended but I’m sure I have, many of them, it’s almost integral, the added offenses is in my history besides what I’m doing now and how I’m going to advance. So, how else do I go back and rectify that with the other person?

Giriraj Swami: So, what’s your comment on your situation, that you can’t do anything?

Devotee: The question is about the solution.

Giriraj Swami: Well, it’s sort of hard to tell from your question how severe or how prolonged your offenses have been.

Devotee: Not bad.

Giriraj Swami: So, they are all saying it’s not bad, either they don’t know or they don’t want to commit offenses or they are not bad. But one devotee asked that question to Srila Prabhupada, “I make so many offenses during the day and if I were to go and ask forgiveness from every devotee I offend, I’d be spending all my time asking for forgiveness.” So, Srila Prabhupada said that in the morning, after maṅgala-ārati, we all bow down and offer Vaishnava praṇāma, and that’s our way of asking all the Vaishnavas to forgive us for our offenses. Can you do that? Okay.

Yes? There is someone at the back, two people at the back.

Devotee: Maharaja, I sometimes would think, Well, I’m just saying things as it is, I’m not committing offenses to anyone, I’m just saying the truth. I’m not one of these persons who would just try to polish things and cover it and make it worse. I see somebody does something, I’m just going to say because I’m trying to help that person to advance. “Hey, you are doing something wrong, I’m telling you, I’ve done this.” How would you describe that mentality?

Giriraj Swami: If you genuinely want to help the person and you are correcting him for the sake of helping the person improve, then it’s fine, it’s good. Sometimes we need that. We’ll leave it at that.

Yes, sir?

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Maharaja, you said about digging for water and you mentioned going to one Rasika Vaishnava, two Rasika Vaishnava so you are suggesting stay where there might be water. You mentioned Raghunatha das Goswami, he had his first guru Yadhunandan Acharya and it seems like you would say stay with him don’t go to Swarupa Damodara, Nityananda Prabhu, Chaitanya, Rupa, Sanatana who were his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th , 6th and 7th gurus. But according to example, you would say, “Don’t go to another guru.”

Giriraj Swami: Well, Sacinandana Swami was talking about people who leave ISKCON. Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, every one of his gurus was pointing him towards Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so there was complete unity and harmony among them. And the injunction is that one can have only one dīkṣā-guru, but one can have many śikṣā-gurus.

Devotee: How many?

Giriraj Swami: I said many.

Devotee: Okay.

Giriraj Swami: But they should be in harmony, and all of Raghunatha dasa Gosvami’s gurus were, they were all helping him to achieve Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and love of Krishna. So, that’s what we all want, we all want support from wherever we can get it, from all sides, but that support should be harmonious with Srila Prabhupada and our paramparā. You are not satisfied?

Devotee: No, I am. Someone will say its harmonious others may say it’s not. But somebody was saying about internal and external consideration.

Giriraj Swami: Well, we would like to be harmonious internally and externally.

Devotee: And the two clash?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if you have one guru, then you aren’t going to clash. The clash can only come whether it’s more than one guru. So, you don’t want to have a śikṣā-guru that’s going to cause conflict with your dīkṣā-guru or with others or with other śikṣā-gurus.

Devotee: I want to consult the shastra to see which is most inspiring, which is the most correct one; guru, sadhu, shastra.

Giriraj Swami: I mean, I don’t know, do you have something sort of underneath your questions?

Devotee: In Srila Prabhupada’s books he says Bhagavad-gita, then Srimad Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta as you gradually elevate. In Prabhupada’s purports especially in Caitanya-caritāmṛta it’s so much historical as well philosophical.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Although when you say seeking out the Rasika Vaishnava number one, number two if you seek . . . and if we attend the program and somebody’s speaking or even a temple you hear somebody speaking, and he is just speaking Hari katha, he is just speaking  Krishna consciousness. So, is there harm of being a little different opinion that there is some people with different branches within the community . Like this morning, it was no nice to see so many devotees show up, but we don’t always get that many in the morning.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I think you probably know better than I what the situation is, so I leave it to you to adjust all these complexities I am just a pretentious humble servant. Yes. I do want to reiterate, maybe I shouldn’t have quoted him, but it was Sacinandana Swami who said that.

Devotee: Thank you very much Maharaja, I was just thinking materially speaking and the professionals, they categorize intelligence as the lowest if people speak about others, about other people, other persons. So, they speak about plans is a higher intelligence, they speak about how to resolve. So, actually, that particular point about speaking about others and the low intelligence according to psychologists and whatever is out there qualifying. But even materially speaking, that’s not something that calls for, “Oh, how intelligent that person is speaking about the bad qualities,” or even the good qualities. Speaking about others is not really quite a substance if it’s not beneficial for any kind of society.

Giriraj Swami: Unless the others are Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Radha and Krishna.

Radhikesh Prabhu?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Thank you for such a wonderful class. You were speaking about patience and Mukunda, ten million lifetimes. How do we develop patience in our own practice? So, sometimes it seems like I’m not making progress, or the progress is slow or going backwards, whatever it may be. What can we do to keep practicing and moving forward as slowly as we may go?

Giriraj Swami: Well, there is a beautiful couple of verses in the Eleventh Canto, a wonderful purport that’s somewhat similar. And the verse says that knowing that all sense gratification leads to misery and resolving to give up sense gratification, but still falling into sense gratification, one should continue in devotional service in a happy mood. And so, our acharyas say that in a happy mood means that he has confidence that eventually, Krishna will be merciful. It’s not within his power to overcome these weaknesses, it’s only possible if Krishna gives His mercy, and he is confident that one day, Krishna will give His mercy. Maybe today or tomorrow or in ten years or ten lifetimes or in ten million lifetimes, but one day, Krishna will be merciful. And with that confidence, he continues in a happy mood. That’s one answer.

Another answer is that we need both enthusiasm and patience. Srila Prabhupada said that patience without enthusiasm can lead to lethargy, and enthusiasm without patience can lead to a desire to control. So, we need both of these; we have to be patient and we have to have faith. But we may also need to improve in ways. So, by improving our practices, we could accelerate our results, but ultimately, it depends on mercy. No matter what endeavor we make, ultimately, we depend on mercy.

Devotee: So, our own effort is not so important or necessary? Because that can make somebody a little bit lazy, “Oh, Krishna will fix this. I’m just going to keep going whatever I’m doing and be happy.” Where does our own effort come into it and our own discipline?

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are two words in logic: necessary and sufficient. Your own efforts are necessary, but they are not sufficient, you need Krishna’s mercy with your own efforts. We have the example of Mother Yasoda binding Krishna, that when Krishna saw her hard labor, pariśrama, He felt merciful, kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. So, that combination, pariśrama, our own hard labor with Krishna’s mercy will allow us to bind Krishna.

Devotee: How do we attract that mercy a little quicker?

Giriraj Swami: Well, by working harder. Okay, when does the ārati end?

Devotee: 9:10.

Giriraj Swami: All right, so we’ll make this the last one, and then we’ll join the ārati.

Devotee: Maharaja, I heard from Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura comments  that if someone hears about something not a good content, and the intention of the person was not favorable, because ultimately, all the rules and regulations have a purpose of being close to Krishna. That’s the whole purpose of our spiritual practice. So, if someone hears before he speaks, he should try to purify in the heart because once it comes out. It says the ill motive is not as dangerous as criticism because criticism, when it comes out, it calls on us as many people hears, but when somebody hears just himself or herself, there is a chance he can purify within the heart by begging mercy and prayers and chanting. But he should not or she should not speak out about that because it will literally not be that possible. Because wants its out who knows how many will hear and it goes on. So, that’s why criticism is worse than a hateful feeling.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. I mean, it’s because we were talking about not to speak badly about others, and he brought us to the proper and correct conclusion. Thank you very much.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!