SB 1.8.12–13 – Srila Prabhupada’s Protection

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Giriraj Swami: We read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto One, Chapter Eight, “Prayers by Queen Kuntī and Parīkṣit Saved.”

TEXT 12

tarhy evātha muni-śreṣṭha

pāṇḍavāḥ pañca sāyakān

ātmano ‘bhimukhān dīptān

ālakṣyāstrāṇy upādaduḥ

TRANSLATION 

O foremost among the great thinkers [munis] [Śaunaka], seeing the glaring brahmāstra proceeding towards them, the Pāṇḍavas took up their five respective weapons.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya.

The brahmāstras are finer than the nuclear weapons. Aśvatthāmā discharged the brahmāstra simply to kill the Pāṇḍavas, namely the five brothers headed by Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and their only grandson, who was lying within the womb of Uttarā. Therefore the brahmāstra, more effective and finer than the atomic weapons, was not as blind as the atomic bombs. When the atomic bombs are discharged they do not discriminate between the target and others. Mainly the atomic bombs do harm to the innocent because there is no control. The brahmāstra is not like that. It marks out the target and proceeds accordingly without harming the innocent.

COMMENT

Now, the next verse, as you can see clearly from the purport, is read along with this verse, so I am going to go ahead to the next verse also.

TEXT 13

vyasanaṁ vīkṣya tat teṣām

ananya-viṣayātmanām

sudarśanena svāstreṇa

svānāṁ rakṣāṁ vyadhād vibhuḥ

TRANSLATION

The almighty Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, having observed that a great danger was befalling His unalloyed devotees, who were fully surrendered souls, at once took up His Sudarśana disc to protect them.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The brahmāstra, the supreme weapon released by Aśvatthāmā, was something similar to the nuclear weapon but with more radiation and heat. This brahmāstra is the product of a more subtle science, being the product of a finer sound, a mantra recorded in the Vedas. Another advantage of this weapon is that it is not blind like the nuclear weapon because it can be directed only to the target and nothing else. Aśvatthāmā released the weapon just to finish all the male members of Pāṇḍu’s family; therefore in one sense it was more dangerous than the atomic bombs because it could penetrate even the most protected place and would never miss the target. Knowing all this, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa at once took up His personal weapon to protect His devotees, who did not know anyone other than Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord has clearly promised that His devotees are never to be vanquished. And He behaves according to the quality or degree of the devotional service rendered by the devotees. Here the word ananya-viṣayātmanām is significant. The Pāṇḍavas were cent-percent dependent on the protection of the Lord, although they were all great warriors themselves. But the Lord neglects even the greatest warriors and also vanquishes them in no time. When the Lord saw that there was no time for the Pāṇḍavas to counteract the brahmāstra of Aśvatthāmā, He took up His weapon even at the risk of breaking His own vow. Although the Battle of Kurukṣetra was almost finished, still, according to His vow, He should not have taken up His own weapon. But the emergency was more important than the vow. He is better known as the bhakta-vatsala, or the lover of His devotee, and thus He preferred to continue as bhakta-vatsala than to be a worldly moralist who never breaks his solemn vow.

COMMENT

Hare Krishna. So, this is a great honor and pleasure to be here on the occasion of the Prabhupada festival in the presence of so many of Prabhupada’s followers. 

We learned a lot about Krishna from Srila Prabhupada, not only because of his teachings but also from his example. It is sometimes said that the spiritual master is the transparent via media to Krishna, he is Krishna’s representative, Srila Prabhupada certainly empowered representative, and therefore, he acted as Krishna’s agent and also Krishna’s representative, and he manifested all the qualities of Krishna that are possible for a living entity, even an empowered one. 

So here in this verse, Lord Krishna is manifesting His quality of bhakta-vatsala. Vatsā, vātsale is related to the word vatsā which means cow, cows are very affectionate to their calves and that type of affection, deep love, is there in Krishna for His devotees. But devotees also are surrendered to Krishna, or dependent on Krishna, to different degrees. And as the Lord says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante, as all surrender unto Him He reciprocates. So, as Srila Prabhupada said, “If you are 1 percent for Krishna, He will be 1 percent for you. If you are 10 percent for Krishna, He will be 10 percent for you. If you are 100 percent for Krishna, He will be 100 percent for you.” 

So here the words, as Srila Prabhupada says, ananya-viṣayātmanām, are very significant because ananya means no other, and viṣaya means means. They had no other means of protection besides Sri Krishna, they were fully dependent on Him, and therefore, He immediately responded to protect them even at the cost of breaking His own promise. But although it is said ananya-viṣayātmanām, that they had no other means of protection, it is also mentioned that they ālakṣyāstrāṇy upādaduḥ, they took up their weapons. So, they had no other means of protection besides Krishna and they were fully dependent on Him, but at the same time, they took up their own weapons to try to counteract the attack. And that is an instruction for all of us, a simple principle which we have probably heard many times, that we make our best effort, and at the same time, depend on the mercy of the Lord.

This principle was vividly demonstrated in the dāmodara-līlā, the pastime of Mother Yasoda attempting to bind Lord Damodara, her son, Krishna, with ropes, as described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Of course, it is a whole story and I hope most of you are aware of it, but basically, Mother Yasoda had been feeding baby Krishna with her breast milk and then the milk that was on the fire began to boil over, and thus Mother Yasoda set aside baby Krishna, although He wasn’t satisfied, to tend to the milk on the fire that was boiling over. And Srila Prabhupada explains that everything in the household of Mother Yasoda was meant for Krishna’s pleasure, for Krishna’s service, and sometimes, in Krishna’s service one has to set aside one important duty to do another important duty, and the intelligence by which one determines what to do first and what to do next comes from Krishna Himself within the heart.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ

bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam

dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

So she set aside Krishna because it was urgent that she attend to the milk that was boiling over but He became angry because He wasn’t satisfied. And so in His anger, He broke a pot of butter that was hanging from the rafters and started to eat it and share it with His friends and monkeys. But He knew that He would get in trouble, so He began to run away, and the soles of His feet had been, you can say, marked by the ghee, or the butter and yogurt, so when Mother Yasoda returned, she saw His footprints and she suspected that this mischief was the act of Krishna, her son. So, she began to follow those footprints and she was chasing Him, but it is described that she was heavier than He was, He was little, He was able to run ahead of her. But after some time, although He cannot be caught by anyone, even the greatest yogis, He allowed Himself to be caught by her. So, then she wanted to bind His belly or abdomen, udara, with ropes as a punishment, but really more just to keep Him from causing further mischief. But she found that the ropes were two inches too short or two fingers too short, and she was perplexed because every morning she would tie Krishna’s belt around Him and she never had any problem. But anyway, she got some more ropes, but still, two inches too short, and more ropes, and she had a lot of ropes because they were in a cowherd community. No matter how many ropes she tied together, it was too short, and all the neighbors they brought their ropes and added them, it was still too short. 

So then the Bhāgavatam describes that Krishna, seeing Mother Yasoda’s hard labor, took compassion on her, and by His mercy, He allowed her to bind Him. So in the Sanskrit of the Bhāgavatam, there are two important words: one is pariśrama which means hard labor, very hard labor, and the other is kṛṣṇa-kṛpā which means Krishna’s mercy. And our acharyas, Srila Jiva Gosvami and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and others, they comment that in order to bind Krishna these two elements must be there. These are the two fingers that were too short. And if we close that gap, well, we can only do one part of it, but if that gap is closed by these two elements we can bind Krishna. And the one element is pariśrama, our hard labor, and the other is Krishna’s mercy, kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. 

So here the Pandavas also demonstrated that principle, they took up their weapons, they were ready to do their part. The fact that ananya, that they had no other means doesn’t mean that they didn’t do their part. So they took up their weapons but Krishna seeing that there was no time for them to employ their weapons against the brahmāstra, He intervened with His Sudarsana disc to protect them, even at the cost of breaking His promise not to take up weapons. And therefore Srila Prabhupada says that it was more important to Krishna to be the protector of His devotees, bhakta-vatsala, than keep His word.

Now, this partiality of Krishna of being bhakta-vatsala, there is a very interesting discussion by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura as to how does one get bhakti? It is a very important question; how does one get bhakti? So, someone could say that the answer is Krishna’s mercy, but Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says that cannot be the answer because Krishna is equal to everyone. As Srila Prabhupada was saying in the lecture that we heard yesterday, he is the father of all living entities, so as the Supreme father he has to be equal to all of his children. So the answer can’t be that it is his mercy. Then Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says the answer could be presented that it is the devotee’s mercy and he says that then the question could be raised, “Well, then that means the devotee is partial.” But then he says that the preacher, the madhyam bhakta, does make distinctions as mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā. Prema, he gives his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Maitrī, he makes friendship with devotees. Kṛpā, he gives mercy to the innocent. And upekṣāḥ, he neglects the envious. And he says that that partiality in a devotee is not a fault, it is not a dūṣaṇam but it is an ornament, bhūṣaṇam. And then because Krishna’s only business is with devotees, when the devotee gives his mercy and prays to Krishna for the sake of some fallen soul then Krishna follows with His mercy. And so that is not a fault in the devotee or in Krishna.

So, I am sure all of us here are recipients of a devotee’s mercy. In my case, when Srila Prabhupada initiated me in Los Angeles, I was in Boston but he was in Los Angeles, I was initiated by mail. And after writing him and requesting initiation, just a few days after that we were on hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana in Boston, and I felt this amazing sense as if, well first of all, that I wasn’t the body, I had just a clear perception that I wasn’t the body and I felt some sort of ecstasy or something, I started to cry. And so I mentioned it to the other devotees and they said, “It could be that at that very moment Srila Prabhupada was chanting on your beads and initiating you.” And it seemed very likely that that was the case. I was initiated in Los Angeles and in his initiation letter, Srila Prabhupada wrote that, “Your name is Giriraj. Giriraj is the name for the Govardhana mountain where Krishna used to tend His cows.” 

Now that name had a very big significant effect on me. Of course, it is a wonderful name, but my previous name, family name was Teton, Glen Teton, and we were quite proud of the Grand Teton mountains because they are very beautiful. In my youth, I saw a movie where, not a movie, a television show, a television show where some rich man was living in the Teton mountains, so I was like yes the Teton mountains are the best place. And then later, after coming to Krishna consciousness, some of that false pride was still there because I heard that Srila Prabhupada’s disciple Ambarish dasa, Alfred Ford, had been in the Teton mountains, “Oh yes, it is confirmed, Teton mountains are the best place.” So, when I got this initiation letter that, “Giriraj is the name for the Govardhana mountain,” I thought wow! It is like I had that false attachment for a mountain, but Srila Prabhupada has given me a better mountain to become attached to. So yes. 

But then on this point about praying he wrote, “So, I marked it in your presence when I met you in Boston and I prayed to Krishna that this good soul may become aware of the importance of Krishna consciousness.” So it was really Srila Prabhupada’s prayer that delivered me in that sense, and certainly, Krishna would respond to Srila Prabhupada’s prayer because Prabhupada was completely surrendered to Krishna, and not only that but taking up the most important service to Krishna which is preaching. And Srila Prabhupada also gave that example that when a father, because you are saying the Krishna is the supreme father, He is equal to everyone, that when the father is crossing the street with his children and then suddenly some vehicle comes his first thought will be to protect the youngest child because the youngest child is the most dependent on him. And Srila Prabhupada related that to the preacher, that the preacher takes the most risk for Krishna, and therefore, is the most dependent on Him, and therefore, although Krishna loves all of His children but He will respond to protect the preacher first.

And as Krishna says at the end of the Bhagavad-gītā, “That one who explains this secret to the devotees is most dear to me, there will never be one more dear. And in the end, devotional service is guaranteed and he will come back to me.” So that was Srila Prabhupada, he just gave everything to preach without any consideration. He said, “I walked through fire to establish this movement.” So, we are totally dependent on Srila Prabhupada and completely obliged to him. When we think of where we were before and where we are now there is a huge difference. If we look at the direction we were headed in before and where we ended up now we will see we ended up in a very different place than we were headed, and that is because of Srila Prabhupada’s mercy. 

And he gave protection to his devotees, of course, mainly spiritual. That word rakṣāṁ, protection, Krishna protected the Pandavas, so Prabhupada protected us from deviation, our own tendencies within our hearts to deviate and outside influences that could encourage us to deviate. So he would protect, he was very alert and vigilant, if he saw some deviation was coming into the movement, or some fad. Even during Prabhupada’s presence different fads; there were health fads, all sorts of things, we were listening the other day about sugar, I guess I have to say, in case some of you were not present, but in one temple Prabhupada asked for sugar and they didn’t have sugar because I guess the managers thought it was unhealthy to eat sugar. And Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, that is okay, if they don’t want to eat sugar they don’t have to but they should have sugar in the temple, Krishna likes sugar. They have to offer Krishna what He likes.” So yes, different fads.

So Prabhupada also protected us from those things to keep us completely aligned with Krishna consciousness. And yes, in a way, you could say he protected us from each other, I mean sometimes devotees would fight with each other I mean orally, verbally, generally. And he spent so much time, in retrospect it is a pity that we made him spend so much time mediating our differences between each other. One example that comes to mind was the Hyderabad farm, there were three very, you could say independent-minded, strong-willed leaders of that project and they were quite often coming in conflict with each other. And Srila Prabhupada instructed them that, “You get together, you fight like cats and dogs, and then when you all agree you go ahead.” So, that was a good instruction. But it so happened that one of those three leaders came to Juhu, and so he came into Srila Prabhupada’s room, I happened to be there, and he was just unburdening himself like all of his trials and tribulations and miseries, and Prabhupada just listened. He was a very patient listener, and that gave some solace to that leader.

And this is another point I will mention, that rakṣāṁ, because when I read that word, rakṣā, I thought of go-rakṣā because we always hear the duties of vaishyas, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. So that leader had a plan to develop a superior breed of cows that would produce more milk, and then when people would see how valuable the cows were, they wouldn’t kill them, something like that, because it would be so lucrative to keep the cow alive. And Srila Prabhupada said, “That is not our idea why we protect cows so that we can become big capitalists and make lots of money.” He said, “We protect the cows because Krishna wants it.” And then he quoted that, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ. And even if we make money, or we don’t make money, even if we lose money, we will still protect the cows because Krishna wants it. Bhakti means that we do what Krishna wants to please Him.

So yes, Srila Prabhupada was always keeping us on the point of pure devotional service because that is what pleases Krishna and that is what ultimately will satisfy us and fulfill all our desires. 

But yes, so it is again wonderful to be in the midst of all of you, Prabhupada-anugas, followers of Srila Prabhupada. It is definitely the safest place to be. I mean the safest place to be is under Srila Prabhupada’s shelter, but we find his shelter and we stay under his shelter in the association of his followers. And it is so nice we get to read his books. By his design, every morning we get to read his books, and well we should read them regularly as he said. Of course, he wanted us to distribute his books that was very high priority, but he also said he didn’t write the books just for us to distribute, he wrote them for us to read. And it shouldn’t be that on saṅkīrtana someone says, “Oh, you want me to take this book, what is in it?” And then the devotee says, “Well, I don’t know what is in it, I just sell the books, I don’t actually read them.” So yes, we should read them, read them very diligently, study them, apply them, of course, the books are alive, reading the books means associating with Srila Prabhupada and the paramparā, and apply those principles, and distribute that knowledge for others. And that will be pleasing to our hearts and pleasing to Srila Prabhupada and the paramparā, or maybe the other way around because it is pleasing to them it will be pleasing to our hearts. Yes, and then we will all go back to Godhead.

I think of this one letter Srila Prabhupada wrote, he was in Juhu, but he wrote it to a disciple, very nice disciple named Tushta Krishna dasa. And Tushta Krishna was a follower of someone in Hawaii, he is still there, his name was Sai, and then Srila Prabhupada initiated him, gave him the names Siddha Svarupa, and then he took sannyasa, became Siddha Swarupananda. So Tushta Krishna, he had good followers. Our Urvashi dasi, I don’t know if she is still here, she was also with him in Hawaii. So, apparently from Prabhupada’s reply, Tushta Krishna Prabhu had written to Prabhupada placing Siddha Svarupa in a different category from all of Srila Prabhupada’s other disciples, and Srila Prabhupada didn’t like that. And so he wrote back that, “Siddha Svarupa is a good soul but you should not be mistaken, he is a good soul but all of my disciples are good souls.” I guess Tushta Krishna used the word pure devotee, and Srila Prabhupada said, “All my disciples are pure devotees, anyone who has surrendered to the spiritual master, anyone who sincerely follows the instructions of this spiritual master is a pure devotee. He may be Siddha Svarupa or non-Siddha Svarupa, so don’t make a faction.” And then Srila Prabhupada said he will go back to Godhead and he is saying, Shyamasundara would go back to Godhead, Shyamasundara was the GBC for Hawaii, he is saying, “So, he will go back to Godhead and this one will go back to Godhead, Shyamasundara will go back to Godhead, we will all go back to Godhead and we will have another ISKCON in the spiritual sky.” And then he said, “Only Mr. Nair, he must stay behind.” Because yes, Mr. Nair was a big demon, a big crook.

I remember once I spoke about that, I think it was relevant, very relevant to the verse, and Veerbhau Prabhu was listening to it online, and afterwards he commented to me that, “I don’t usually like it when devotees call other people demons but after hearing the story of Juhu I am convinced that yes, he was a demon.” So, but other than him everyone else can come and we will have another ISKCON in the spiritual sky. So, I am happy to have your company here and I look forward to having it there.

Hare Krishna. Srila Prabhupada ki jaya.

Oh, a question from Gauranga [Unintelligible 00:52:41].

Devotee: The local circus. You were saying about dūṣaṇam and bhūṣaṇam, that on one hand there is no fault, the question was about mercy, and is it because of Krishna’s mercy? Well no, it is the devotee’s mercy, and there is no fault in the devotee being partial. Yes, but so, if Krishna is faulted for being partial, why isn’t the devotee also faulted for being partial? Why is the devotee’s partiality considered a jewel, and Krishna’s partiality, well, there is some debate about the matter?

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. 

Devotee: Unless he wants to answer, I don’t know what this young boy is up to, and I am wondering where the father is, but that is another issue. Tell him there is prasādam, he will go immediately.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Krishna cannot be partial because He is the father of every living entity so He has to be equal to all of His children. But the devotee as a madhyam-bhakta, the uttamā-bhakta, the mahā-bhāgavata, he doesn’t show any partiality, he sees everyone equally, he sees that everyone is serving Krishna except himself, so he does see everyone equally. But the madhyam-bhakta by nature, by definition, he makes distinctions that prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā, that kṛpā, he gives kṛpā to the innocent, and so that is not a fault, that is his function. And Srila Prabhupada says, even the mahā-bhāgavata, when he preaches he has to in a way come down to the madhyam platform because if he stayed on the uttamā platform he would see there is no need to preach, that everyone is already serving Krishna. So that is why Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura said it is not a fault because that is his nature, it is his function to give mercy to the innocent. I mean that is what he says, that is what I am repeating.

And so Krishna, He really has no business with anyone except devotees and it is because the devotee prays to Him to give mercy to some non-devotee, His mercy follows the devotee’s mercy. We see this with Krishna’s chastisement of Kāliya, that when Kāliya’s wives prayed to Him to be merciful to their husband then He was merciful to him. So, it is not a fault in Krishna to be partial to devotee, it is an ornament. And that is what Prabhupada is saying here, that even at the cost of breaking His own promise He protected the Pandavas, and therefore, He is known as bhakta-vatsala, and He wants to be known as bhakta-vatsala, it is more important than being known as a morally proper person who doesn’t break His promise.

But would you like to say something?

Devotee: No, no, I am satisfied, I was genuinely asking. And I was thinking when you gave the example of the uttamā and the madhyam, that madhyam platform is very blissful, everyone’s engaged in Krishna’s service, and so it is actually an austerity, it is an act of kindness for an uttamā to come down to the madhyam platform, that he just to out of kindness to deliver these people he comes down and makes that. So it is an ornament, he is giving up his own peaceful, shanti-shanti and distinguishing and reaching out to the innocent and the merciful, so it is a special qualification or jewel of a devotee. So I appreciate your answer very much.

Giriraj Swami: Beautiful, beautiful.

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: Well said, perfect.

Devote: Just because we are in LA and you mentioned a Prabhupada pastime and how devotee’s mercy invokes Krishna’s mercy.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: When I was shaved up as a bhakta in Laguna Beach then I had been coming up here then Vishnujana Swami was the shelter of all of us and Vishnujana Swami said when he first saw me shaved up, he said that Prabhupada had told him that when a devotee first shaves up, Radharani then goes to Krishna and says, “Just see this nice devotee how he surrendered to you.” And then Prabhupada told Vishnujana, and Vishnujana told me that when Krishna is asked by Radharani, “Give him some shelter.” Prabhupada said, “How can Krishna refuse?” So of course Radharani is special, but the devotee invoking the mercy of Krishna, as you said, very nice.

Giriraj Swami: Wonderful.

Devotee: I am completely satisfied by your answer; that barely happened to me.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, we are all exceedingly pleased and satisfied by your contribution. 

Archita Prabhu.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja, for speaking so nicely on short notice when we were planning to go home last night and you changed your mind at the last moment and decided to speak this morning. Just on that point, sometimes we see within the community, it seems sometimes the leaders especially are more partial to this devotee rather than that one. But we have to look at the motive, what is the motivation behind it? Prabhupada himself when he was leaving for India after becoming ill if you can see it, he said to the devotees, “Take care of Mukunda, he is very gentle.” It didn’t mean don’t take care of the other devotees but Prabhupada is perceiving that this person needs some special attention because of their nature, he is very gentle, he is not going to stand up for himself, in other words. So Prabhupada’s motivation wasn’t that he didn’t like the other devotees but he was especially giving attention to Mukunda because he is in that category. So the leaders have to be like that. Not that he gives special attention for some ill motive because this person butters me up or whatever then I give them reciprocation in that way. But at the same time, you have to perceive who you are dealing with. Some devotees do need special attention and special care more than the other devotees, that is just nature. 

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: As a manager, he [Unintelligible 01:00:22] forty-five years. 

Devotee: Hare Krishna. There is also something, now this is just my own slice of reality or experience, that managers they are partial to this person and not. . .the devotee has a responsibility as well. You have to give the manager something to work with. So when you have a devotee who wants to serve and wants to help carry out the mission, particularly willing to help then the manager naturally engages that person more. It is not all just that the manager from deems on high “I bless you, I don’t bless you,” but you have to give us something to work with as a manager. So if the devotee reciprocates and takes up the mission and takes up the instruction then naturally you give that person more attention because you are giving them a handle to hold on to, you are giving the manager something to work with. So all of us have our degree of responsibility.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. Ekatma Prabhu?

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. I mean thank you very much, it was nice to hear all these comments about pleasing Krishna pleasing His devotee. You mentioned at some point that Srila Prabhupada was saving us in some respect from fads like sugar, don’t overdo it on sugar. And then you went on to say something about pleasing Krishna, that Krishna likes milk that is why we offer it to Him. So my question is, or asking for a comment from you, is it because nowadays we are having issues about dairy? 

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: We are having issues about how dairy is acquired, how the cows are treated. So, is it pleasing to Krishna that seeing how the cows are being treated that that milk is offered to Him considering how we get it? Because sometimes it is not ahiṁsā as some people are so infatuated by. So again, my question is, is that pleasing to Krishna that He is being offered this milk from cows that are mistreated? Should we or should we not?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I mean the way you phrase the question you put two things together. Is it pleasing that Krishna is being offered milk that is from cows that are being mistreated? Krishna is not pleased that the cows are being mistreated but He is pleased that we are offering Him milk because He likes milk. And of course, during Prabhupada’s time, the case was the same and he encouraged us to protect cows or to get milk from protected cows but he didn’t tell us not to offer milk if we couldn’t get it from protected cows. And the way I look at it, it is true of plants that if a plant gives, of course, we are not killing the plant but say a tree produces an apple then we offer that apple to Krishna, so the apple tree gets some spiritual benefit or credit because it gave its fruit for Krishna. So even though the keepers of the cows are merciless, ruthless, materialists, but it would seem based on that logic that the cow would get some benefit by its milk being offered to Krishna. So, I don’t know, I guess it is a bit of a controversial subject, I don’t claim to have any particular insight into it that others don’t have. 

But coming back to sugar, I heard like in the old days during Prabhupada’s time that the sugar, something about bones. Does anyone remember that? 

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:05:46]

Devotee: yes, it is Pliya.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, so that was brought to Srila Prabhupada’s attention but he still said you know, “You can use the sugar to offer to Krishna.” So every endeavor is covered by some fault. I mean in Kali-yuga there are faults everywhere. It would be ideal if we had our own cows but I just feel it is not all that different from when Prabhupada was here and he said, “Offer milk and offer sugar to Krishna.” I think we probably do it here and I think we should continue.

Yes, sir.

Devotee: Maharaja, on that point, even during Prabhupada’s festival I was approached by some Prabhupada’s disciples on the point of milk. And one of them gave me a comment that during Prabhupada’s time which was about forty years back the milk only had fish oil or certain things, today the milk has more things that makes it not suitable for us to offer. And I hear disciples, senior disciples, Prabhupada’s disciples, and even my generation, mentioning the point about PTC, that Prabhupada say, “Do everything according to place, time, and circumstance.” However, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in Prabhupada’s books, we know that Kali-yuga is only going to become worse, we know that this is not a gentleman’s place, but are we not contradicting Srila Prabhupada by trying to limit Srila Prabhupada by having that notion in our mind that Srila Prabhupada did not know that milk is only going to become worse?

Because their point, and I am just trying to understand this point, there is a point, place, time, circumstance, that we have to be practical, but there is a point that you are trying internally to have a limiting factor on a guru who knew what is going to happen, our acharyas knew what is going to happen. So in place with this, should we use the place, time, circumstance, in trying to factor what should be done? Or should we follow because in Srila Prabhupada’s books it says milk is liquid religion, that we shouldn’t be taking milk because it is liquid religion, Srila Prabhupada says that very clearly in the first Canto in the Bhāgavatam. So please can you guide us a second generation, what should we do? Place, time, circumstance? Or should we follow Srila Prabhupada’s books?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it seems like you already have the answer and I agree with you that we should offer milk and take milk if we want. And Prabhupada was telling the artists that they should paint the figures, that they shouldn’t be too muscular and sinewy and all that because we are milk eaters the people in the artwork should look like milk eaters, so we should also look like milk eaters.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Even if we don’t drink milk. Anyway, thank you. Oh, yes, yes.

Devotee: Maharaja, do you not think that actually, we have a great opportunity right now to set a precedent for the world to follow? Because a lot of people in the outside world are very much into vegan, they are very much into organic, why can’t we make the next step and make something that is above all that, something that is completely pure and completely amazing, that actually gives real health, real intelligence, and be able to distribute that to the world, and be a leader instead of just being like, “Oh well, what can we do?” Prabhupada, he said that according to time, place, and circumstances, and I think if we ask him today he may give us a different answer. And I just thought it might be a different way of seeing things a little bit more, something maybe more progressive.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, yes, Rameshwara Prabhu.

Devotee: Partly in response to that, my understanding from Srila Prabhupada is what you had earlier said, that the way to set the example is not to not use milk, the way to set the example is to have farm communities that protect cows and have protected cow milk. So if our goal is to set an example about milk in the world, that is the way to do it, not to ban milk that is not protected, but to be much more proactive in protecting cows and introducing that type of milk. 

And I wanted to mention one other thing which is really controversial and will be very very, and this is going to be a huge challenge for future generations because they may not know how to take what Prabhupada said. He had said, I have this in my diary, that in the future of Kali-yuga when great unemployment forces people out of cities to our farm communities, many of those people coming will be meat eaters and we have to accept them, not by saying, “You can only come by giving up meat right away.” And I have in my diary also that he even said that there will be a section of our city of Mayapur of the future for meat-eaters, and that in both of those examples Prabhupada said, “And gradually by association they will give it up, but not that they have to give it up before they come.” Now this is some great time in the future of Kali-yuga, this is going to be very challenging to devotees, that a section of our future farm communities may have to allow for meat eaters with an understanding that they will gradually give it up by the practice, by serving Krishna, and by associating with devotees. But it is what Prabhupada said.

Devotee 2: There is still time for that, not in our time.

Devotee: Not our generation.

Devotee 2: Lets get quality milk, first.

Giriraj Swami: All right, thank you all very much.

Granthraj Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol.