Meeting with Book Distributors

Giriraj Swami: I remember when I was staying with Vaisesika Prabhu at his place in Burlingame. He would get up early and have a very intense morning program and at that time he was working on the book, which came to be Our Family Business. He was saying that our enthusiasm on saṅkīrtana is the overflow from our ecstasy from doing sadhana. Of course, when I first joined we would go out and do hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and distribute magazines. Then in India Srila Prabhupada introduced the life membership program, as a means to distribute his books. But both in Boston, in Bombay, Calcutta, and elsewhere I have felt I needed to chant a certain number of rounds in the morning before I did anything else. I can’t say it is true for everyone, but it was definitely true for me, that I needed that sadhana in the early morning before attempting to go out. 

Then when we come to our sadhana and especially our japa, there is also the question of the quality. Now many people speak about japa, chanting attentively. The other day someone mentioned the three P’s: posture, pronunciation, and prayer. But yes, you should chant attentively, of course, and read. I think one of the best periods I ever had was in Madras. We didn’t have a temple but I would get up and sing some prayers. For some of that time I was alone, but anyway, and then chanted my rounds through and read. We would have to start pretty early making phone calls because it is easier to reach people at home before they got to the office and they had so many meetings and secretaries to go through. 

I would always pray. Actually the same principles extended from when I was doing books in Boston to when I was doing members in Bombay. But I pray because often there is a time when they are considering whether to take the book or not, or whether to sign the membership form or not. Then I would pray to the Supersoul within their hearts to inspire them to do some service. And of course, what I remember and I am sure you have all had the same experience, is to get them to take the book in their hand. Once they have it in their hand, they get attached to it. I do it, let them hold it, maybe help them page through it, I point out the good qualities in it, and then when I would ask for a donation, it seemed like the donation was just a pittance compared to the great value of the literature that they are getting. Any other questions or topics? 

Devotee 1: [00:06:49 inaudible]. How do you get japa with that self-purification?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, well, my first thought, as Prabhupada said, practice. Practice makes perfect even in spiritual life. But I always keep my japa books on the table when I chant, I mean, there was a time I would read, before I began I would read intermittently, but now I don’t do that so much. But just having them there reminds me of what is in them. 

Devotee 1: Which is it? 

Giriraj Swami: Well, this is a book called Japa. And these are small ones really nice that, I guess you could say, came upon by chance by His Holiness Kadamba Kanana Swami. I think there are things that he has said about the holy name, which his disciples in South Africa [08:23 inaudible]. I will just open this at random, we will just see what it says: “It is said that when we are chanting the names of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda, the ecstasy comes very quickly.” Well, that is an important principle, that in the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra there are offenses to be considered, whereas in the chanting of the names of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda, They don’t consider offenses. So if you chant Their names first you get purification, or as in the very early days in Boston Srila Prabhupada said, “For kirtan, but we always chant the Pancha-tattva mantra before each round.” The Pancha-tattva will help you chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. I always chant the Pancha-tattva mantra before every round, and then intermittently I will just say Nitai-Gauranga Nitai-Gauranga Nitai-Gauranga if I need some special mercy, which is a lot of the time. 

“It is said that when we are chanting the names of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda, ecstasy comes quickly. It is said that this ecstasy we experience is due to the fact that offenses are not considered.” Now, this is another point, that many of the ten offenses are things that we either do when we are not chanting or attitudes or misconceptions that we carry with us when we are not chanting. So it is important not to commit those offenses, especially sādhu-nindā, criticizing devotees. You are not going to do that while you are chanting, I mean, we hope, but it is something that you do when you are not chanting that will affect your chanting. We should try to conduct ourselves in such a way that we don’t commit those offenses when we are not chanting, and so we won’t be having reactions from those offenses when we are chanting. 

Another thing that Bhaktivinoda Thakura says is that we should be well situated in varna and ashrama because if you are not, if you are disturbed in relation to your varna or ashrama, that disturbance will carry over into your mind while you are chanting. We want our life to be simple and straight forward, so when we are chanting, those thoughts about varna and ashrama don’t trouble us. 

Another point, which I sometimes heard His Holiness Sachinandana Swami make, is that usually when, you could say, other thoughts come to your mind while you are chanting, you just ignore them. But he did say if certain thoughts keep coming up, it may be an indication that you need to deal with something. Then you take appropriate steps, whatever it is, I mean, you might need a change somewhere. But generally, if thoughts come up, we don’t pay attention, just bring the mind back to the sound of the holy name. 

All right, so we will go back to what Kadamba Kanana Swami is saying here. Well, it is the same, we just happened on this. “Therefore, the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra is always preceded by the chanting of the Pancha-tattva mantra. We must first take shelter of Lord Nityananda and Lord Chaitanya and then we can get Radha and Krishna. Otherwise, the pastimes of Radha and Krishna remain covered by darkness.” 

I will just choose another one at random. “Krishna, Krishna, Krishna. Wherever there is Krishna, there is auspiciousness. Just the name of Krishna alone means that Krishna is present in your house. No need for any pumpkins to drive out inauspiciousness.” Is that a reference to Halloween? [Laughter]. “Simply bring Krishna in the form of kirtan or japa and inauspiciousness will disappear. Wherever there is Krishna, there will be victory and there will be auspiciousness. Everything will be there, everything.” I have a whole section of books on the holy name, but it is beneficial to discuss japa, like anything, like book distribution, you discuss it to increase your enthusiasm, to refine your techniques, so same with japa. 

I guess that is the main part of that general category of having strong sadhana in the morning to form the basis of your going out. And one thing—I guess is a general principle, but I have heard it enunciated by book distributors, that sometimes people who you meet give you feedback. I mean, they are not devotees, they don’t really know anything, but they may speak some truth. One devotee mentioned, it may not be verbatim, but something like someone on saṅkīrtana, just an ordinary person said, “You seem to be in a hurry to make a sale and move on to the next person.” It was just a comment from an ordinary person, but he took it as, “Well, maybe he is pointing out something in me that I have to address.” 

I mean, that is one thing I would always do. Again, same thing with book distribution, same thing with life membership, we did a lot in Boston but I think probably the maximum was spent on the Boston Commons. It would be a hari-nāma party and then I would usually like to be near the party. People would gather around but I would always, even after they took the magazine, spend a few moments with them to make them feel that I really cared for them. 

I would say something like, “I hope you read this, and you really get the benefit,” and give them a mantra card with an invitation to the Sunday program. “You take this and whenever you get a chance you recite these words. Come to the program.” I always, in my bead bag, carry a mantra card. And you would be amazed how many I give out just on my japa walks. People see, they come up. Anyway, there are many anecdotes about that, but I always keep the mantra card and I always ask them to chant. 

Back to saṅkīrtana, I would always make them feel I genuinely cared about them. I wasn’t just trying to make a sale and move on. I would spend a little time with them, enough to reinforce the idea that I cared about their spiritual life and I wasn’t just trying to get them to take a magazine and then move on. 

Devotee 1: [00:20:04 inaudible]. You do something for a little while and you want to do something else, but if guru is asking you to stay with the service and that also includes staying in the service for many of us means staying in saffron because if one leaves the service or one gets married then probably can’t do some traveling saṅkīrtana so much. How can we completely, myself and others, understand how to stay with something even though not so externally new? Tips on how to remain in saffron because some of us have a strong desire to do that. If you are willing, that would be helpful. We thank you for your time. 

Giriraj Swami: When you mentioned if the guru wants you to stay with some service, I thought of an exchange with Srila Prabhupada in Bombay. I was serving in India, in Bombay, and a more senior devotee was preaching to me, “Giriraj, you are just wasting your time in India, you should come to America. You can preach at the universities, you can cultivate big people, and we don’t have any devotees who can do that.” Anyway, he influenced my mind, and I approached Srila Prabhupada. It happened to be during his massage, and he said “If you are massaging the spiritual master’s left leg and you think that you would like to massage his right leg, that is also service. But the spiritual master might want you to do more massaging on his left leg.” [Laughter]. I immediately got the point, so okay. 

Now as far as remaining brahmachari, one thing I heard come from Srila Prabhupada, not directly but I heard that he said, is that if you want to remain brahmachari you should keep good relations with everyone. Now, that sounded like an odd juxtaposition, so I thought, How does that work? Why is that so? And I came up with two thoughts. One is that— well, I would say both to remain brahmachari and to stay with the service it is better, of course, to be in the mode of goodness. If you are more in the mode of goodness, you are more likely to keep good relations with others, whereas if you are more influenced by raja-guṇa and tama-guṇa it is easy to quarrel. 

Then the other thing I thought is that if you keep good relations, it means you are not committing offenses, and the result—one of the results of committing offenses is that you get material desires. That was another way I took that instruction, that if you keep good relations with everyone, or in other words, if you don’t commit offenses, then you won’t get that reaction to the offenses of your heart being affected by or overwhelmed by material desires. I mean, there is the idea that attachment is the other side of aversion, so we don’t want too much. Prabhupada said, “For a renunciate, a little aversion is all right, but not too much.” But of course, these instructions that I am going to repeat were very personal to me, I don’t know to what extent they would apply to others. But one thing he said was that if a girl comes, you shouldn’t think, “Oh, this girl has come. Let me exploit her,” but you should think, “Oh, this girl has come to serve Krishna, let me encourage her.” 

The principle of yukta-vairāgya wasn’t like—if a girl comes, you shouldn’t think, “Oh, let me exploit her,” but you should run the other way, you think, “Oh, this girl has come to serve Krishna, let me help her.” But generally, depending on the situation, if there is a need for extended discussion, it is probably better to refer them to a woman. I think that is the main one. 

There is a very specific case, I don’t know if you would ever have anything like that, but Srila Prabhupada had a disciple from East Africa named Shakti Mata, who he named Shakti Mata. She came to visit him in Juhu. When I say Juhu, we didn’t have the big temple then. I was a temple president so he said I should take care of her, and then he said, “She is old enough to be your mother, don’t worry, nothing will happen.” It means he didn’t want me to be too fanatical, he wanted me to take care of her nicely. I mean, traveling is good; the rolling stone gathers no moss, and of course, good sadhana. Okay, anything else? 

Devotee 2: When you feel limitedly indebted to personalities such as yourself, is there anything you can do to make them more pleased? 

Giriraj Swami: Oh, well, I think just what I said, good sadhana, distribute books, engage people in service. 

Devotee 2: What was the last part?

Giriraj Swami: Engage people in service. If they are taking a book it is a service. And keep being an inspiration to others by your example. I have heard about it, I have a vague idea, what exactly is the Warped Tour? 

Devotee 2: Okay, so basically it is fifty bands playing in one day, in one venue, on eight different stages. And the last two shows were sold out shows. There were eighteen thousand yesterday and twenty-five thousand people coming that day, and they watched bands all day. Bands play at different times, sometimes same time but on different stages that are near each other. People run around this concert all day, and there is a lot of booths set up where people are selling shirts and whatnot. So we start at about 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning and distributed books to people who were coming in the wait line or driving into the parking lot, and we get passes from the producer for the past twenty-four years to distribute books legally all throughout. 

Giriraj Swami: Wow! 

Devotee 2: Yes, it has been a really amazing opportunity. We distribute books in the parking lot, in this line, and they open the festival and parking lots; everything is parked or whatnot. They let me go inside forty shows all over the country. We started in the California shows, there is been three shows, four shows I guess. Los Angeles, San Diego, Mountain view, and Ventura, that is actually down the road. Thousands of people get books a day.

Giriraj Swami: It is amazing!

Devotee 2: And year after year. Matter of fact, I got my first book there when I was nineteen. It was heavy rock music, punk rock and stuff like that, so it is a very diverse crowd. A lot of different kinds of people come, but a lot of young people. This is actually the final year; they are calling it quits after this summer. 

Giriraj Swami: Really? 

Devotee 2: Yes, but we are taking full advantage of it. Our days can be quite hectic, sometimes we have fourteen shows in a row like this year, and we have to drive everyday four to eight hours, sometimes ten hours. It is a very intense time of year but it is the greatest opportunity to get mercy. Most of us have done that a couple of times. I did it six times, he has done ten or fifteen times, and not to mention, there are seven people living in one room [Laughter]. It was a nice peaceful place to rest here last night, we are very grateful for that. I had a really good rest, it was really fun and quiet. Usually we are staying by roadsides and rented house [33:11 inaudible], not optimal but—

Giriraj Swami: Well, the drivers should be well rested. 

Devotee 2: We all drive; we all take turns driving. We usually try to rest because we actually have a list of very strict rules for drivers, and even the people who are playing co-pilot, to make sure that we stay safe. At least we do our part, that is the whole idea. 

Giriraj Swami: Okay, good, that is important. 

Devotee 2: Yes, safety first because otherwise. . . 

Giriraj Swami: That is right. 

Devotee 2: We can’t deserve it [Laughter].

Giriraj Swami: Do you focus on any particular books? 

Devotee 2: Well, generally most of us are doing Science of Self-Realization as the top book. Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Part 1, Kṛṣṇa book, Easy Journey to Other Planets. Some devotees like Chant and be Happy. But the core books are still Gītā—I think Bhagavad-gītā probably is the core book that most of us all distribute for sure. And a lot of people like Science and Self-Realization too because it is smaller and it is attractive. A lot of people read those, they read the whole book and they want to get another one. 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, once I did an informal survey in Mauritius about how the devotees came to Krishna consciousness, and a lot came from SSR. 

Devotee 2: Very interesting. 

Giriraj Swami: Well, I guess maybe Mauritius was more, I don’t know, more poor back then, or maybe it was just part of the culture. Some of them came in touch with the books in libraries. 

Devotee 2: And we actually found a lot of people get books in used bookstores [Laughter]. We never know where that book is going to go. We think it is for them, it goes through several people sometimes. 

Devotee 3: A few days ago some person who got books from us, a day after that, called the San Diego temple and said that he wanted to join. 

Giriraj Swami: Wow. 

Devotee 2: The morning after?

Devotee 3: Yes, the morning after. 

Devotee 2: Really? 

Devotee 3: Yes [00:36:17 inaudible]. 

Giriraj Swami: After what? 

Devotee 3: This was our first show.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, just this tour? 

Devotee 3: Yes, and he called and he said he wants to join. He read Science of Self Realization. He read two chapters and then [00:36:39 inaudible] whole day. He didn’t sleep that night probably. 

Devotee 2: And then he said he wanted to try out monk life, so he called to do it. He said [00:36:50 inaudible]. 

Devotee 3: Similarly, we met someone in Memphis, I think it was also SSR, and they also looked after some time to join. Here we were staying at his house. He went to a concert, he got the book and one year later we stayed at his house, and he had already been practicing for six months. Now he is doing it. Do you have any tips on cultivating, helping people join the temple, just really take Krishna consciousness? Do you have any tips on that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it depends on the context.

Devotee 3: Maybe to imagine TSKP live and somehow help them. Of course, we have a website and we collect emails, if there is someone interested we text. We work on that, but anything regarding considering that and helping us to be more successful with that. 

Giriraj Swami: I mean, I heard that Ganapati Swami keeps going back to the same places. There are a lot of places but he still keeps going back to them, and he keeps track of people who have taken books and shown some interest, and he visits them. That can make a huge difference, to have devotees visit someone’s house to talk, maybe have a little program, make some prasāda. That is a big thing, you can go to someone’s house. I guess I am thinking more in terms of places that are out of the way, where they are no temple. 

Devotee 3: We revisit the whole country so we can revisit. We always revisit every year, sometimes twice a year or something. [00:39:19–00:39:54 inaudible]. Do you have any specific questions or anything? Grand opportunity [00:40:01–00:40:18 inaudible].

Giriraj Swami: [Laughter] Yes. 

Devotee 3: How do we remain in the consciousness of the servant of the servant all the time? 

Giriraj Swami: That is your constitutional position, and that would again come back to attentive chanting, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Any other conception is a misconception, so we want to purify ourselves of that misconception. Another thing which might be related is being humble. Then I was present with His Holiness Radhanath Swami when someone asked him about being humble or how he became so humble, and he said, “By practice.” It reminded me of when Prabhupada’s disciple Gargamuni first came and he saw that all the other devotees were bowing down, and he told Prabhupada that he didn’t feel like it but if he should do it anyway. Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, you should do it and the feeling will come.” So, by practice, or in more vernacular language, fake it until you make it. It is like a sadhana, being humble, being the servant of the servant. 

Then when I joined I heard that Srila Prabhupada had said that if any devotee asks you to do some service, you should agree, and if any devotee offers to do some service for you, you should refuse. That is to cultivate that mood of being the servant of the servant. I mean, it might not be practical all the time exactly in those terms, but yes. 

Devotee 3: I have a question regarding that. What if one of your services is to distribute—I think it is like it shouldn’t be for yourself, for the mission perhaps, but your position is to facilitate service for people. 

Giriraj Swami: Yes! It is all a matter of the consciousness. You can conceive of yourself as the master that you are telling everybody what to do, or you can conceive of yourself as the servant of the servant, who is facilitating their service to Krishna. I mean, even the guru, the servant of the disciples, but his service is to train them, it is part of his service. I definitely want to keep the mood of being the servant of the servant. Something that Dina Bandhu Prabhu said—he is based in Vrindavan, I am not even sure how relevant it is to anything, but it just came to my mind. He said, “All Lakshmi to Narayana, all women to Krishna, and all credit to guru.” All right, well, I guess I can let you go. I mean, this is sort of when you wanted to leave. It is a pleasure. 

Devotee 3: Thank you so much Maharaja. 

Giriraj Swami: It is really a pleasure; you are welcome anytime [Laughter]. And I wish you all the best, especially this tour; last year. 

Devotee 3: Hopefully we can find something for next year [Laughter]. 

Giriraj Swami: All right. Hare Krishna.