SB 2.3.23 – A Pure Devotee Can Deliver Krishna to Another Devotee

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Please repeat.

TEXT 23 (ŚB 2.3.23)

jīvañ chavo bhāgavatāṅghri-reṇuṁ

na jātu martyo ‘bhilabheta yas tu

śrī-viṣṇu-padyā manujas tulasyāḥ

śvasañ chavo yas tu na veda gandham

TRANSLATION

The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasī leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, the breathing dead body is a ghost. When a man dies, he is called dead, but when he again appears in a subtle form not visible to our present vision and yet acts, such a dead body is called a ghost.

COMMENT

There is more to the purport, but I will stop and comment as we go along. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā by Lord Krishna, He has eight separated energies: earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego. And apart from these eight inferior energies, aparā-prakṛti, are the living entities, who are superior, parā-prakṛti. So, when the living entity leaves the body, his subtle body, which is also material but subtle, mind, intelligence, and ego accompany him to the next body, and then he gets a gross body, unless he is perfect in Krishna consciousness, then he gets a spiritual body.

So, ghosts are living entities who have only a subtle body, but not a gross body. How does one become a ghost? I’m not suggesting it, I’m just discussing how it happens. The most common way is if one commits suicide. If someone commits suicide, in effect, the person is saying he or she does not want a gross body. That’s the most common way, but another way is if someone is very attached to a house, a mansion, a castle, and one thinks of that castle at the time of death, then he or she can take birth as a ghost in that building.

PURPORT (continued)

Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others.

COMMENT

So, ghosts have gross material desires. People commit suicide because they have material desires, which are not fulfilled. They feel so disappointed and frustrated that they take their own lives. So, they have material desires, but they don’t have a physical body through which to fulfill their desires, so they try to gain possession of someone else’s body so they can fulfill their desires through the senses of that person. And so, they create a fearful situation.  

So, what can we do about ghosts or for ghosts? We can chant the holy names. In fact, that can make them go away, and they also get some benefit by hearing the holy name. But because of this tendency of people to become attached to their mansions, their palaces, or castles, sometimes those buildings are haunted. So, they go on the market for a much reduced price because people don’t want to buy a haunted house. But Srila Prabhupada said, “We can buy these nice properties, chant Hare Krishna, and the ghosts will go away, and we’ll have a nice temple for Krishna.”

PURPORT (continued)

Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others. Similarly, the ghostlike nondevotees who have no respect for the pure devotees, nor for the Viṣṇu Deity in the temples, create a fearful situation for the devotees at all times. The Lord never accepts any offering by such impure ghosts.

COMMENT

So, the Lord does not need anything that we can offer Him because He already possesses everything. I mean, He is everything and everything is either Him or an expansion of His energy. So, He doesn’t really need anything, but what He appreciates is our love and devotion. If one offers with love and devotion a leaf, a fruit, a flower, or some water, Krishna will accept it. The non-devotees, by definition, have no devotion, so the Lord never accepts offerings from them.

PURPORT (continued)

There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved.

COMMENT

There is a saying, “Love me, love my dog.”

PURPORT (continued)

The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord.

COMMENT

In other words, the pure devotee is the Lord’s head dog. So, one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any sentiments for the beloved. And Srila Prabhupada said that in the early days at ISKCON, devotees asked him about the significance of the neck beads, and he said they are like a dog collar, it shows that we are Krishna’s dogs.

PURPORT (continued)

There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved. The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord. The first condition of devotional service to the Lord is therefore to be a servant of a pure devotee, and this condition is fulfilled by the statement “reception of the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who has also served another pure devotee.” That is the way of pure disciplic succession, or devotional paramparā.

COMMENT

So, Srila Rupa Gosvami enumerates sixty-four items of devotional service in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. But the first, ādau guru-pāda-āśraya, is to take shelter at the lotus feet of a spiritual master, who in turn has taken shelter of the lotus feet of his spiritual master, who in turn has taken shelter of the lotus feet of his spiritual master, all the way back to Krishna, who is the original spiritual master.

So, what does it mean to receive the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee? Of course, it could mean the physical dust, bhakta-pada-dhūli bhakta-pada-jala. Caitanya-caritāmṛta says bhakta-pada-dhūli, “The dust from the feet of a pure devotee,” bhakta-pada-jala, “The water that has washed the feet of a pure devotee,” and bhakta-bhukta-avaśeṣa, “The remnants of food left by a devotee.” These three substances are very powerful.

So, it could read forward to the physical dust, but more generally, it would refer to the instructions of the pure devotee. We see the mercy of the pure devotee in the form of his or her instructions, and then it is up to us to follow the instructions. And that’s how we get the mercy. Receiving an instruction is the devotee’s mercy, and by following the instruction or even attempting to follow the instruction, one gets more mercy.

Once in Bombay, a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada for his mercy so that he may follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. Srila Prabhupada curled his lips in disgust and he said, “My mercy is that I’ve given you the instruction. Now it’s up to you to follow.” He gave the example that someone is in the bottom of a well, and someone else hands down a rope to pull that person out of the well. So, he said, “It’s as if the person at the bottom of the well is praying, ‘Please make my fingers curl around the rope, please get me your mercy that my fingers may curl around the rope.’” So the deliverer’s mercy is sending down the rope and he is willing to pull you up, but you have to hold onto it, means you have to follow the instructions.

PURPORT (continued)

Mahārāja Rahūgaṇa inquired from the great saint Jaḍa Bharata as to how he had attained such a liberated stage of a paramahaṁsa, and in answer the great saint replied as follows (Bhāg. 5.12.12):

rahūgaṇaitat tapasā na yāti

na cejyayā nirvapaṇād gṛhād vā

na cchandasā naiva jalāgni-sūryair

vinā mahat-pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekam

“O King Rahūgaṇa, the perfectional stage of devotional service, or the paramahaṁsa stage of life, cannot be attained unless one is blessed by the dust of the feet of great devotees. It is never attained by tapasya [austerity], the Vedic worshiping process, acceptance of the renounced order of life, the discharge of the duties of household life, the chanting of the Vedic hymns, or the performance of penances in the hot sun, within cold water or before the blazing fire.”

COMMENT

So, these are all different practices that are meant to help one advance spiritually, but one cannot attain the perfectional stage by any of those processes. One can attain the paramahamsa stage of life only if one is blessed by the dust of the feet of great devotees. Mahat means great devotee, pāda means foot, rajo means dust. And it says mahat-pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekam. Abhiseka means you have to bathe yourself in the dust of the feet of a pure devotee, then you can attain spiritual perfection.

PURPORT (continued)

In other words, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee.

COMMENT

Srila Prabhupada demonstrated this principle very dramatically and vividly in relation to a probably at the time maybe a three-year-old girl named Sarasvati, who is the daughter of Shyamsundara and Malati. The background is that I had gone to Madras, I was the first ISKCON devotee to go there, and I was preaching and meeting important people, cultivating relationships with them. And then eventually, I arranged a program for Srila Prabhupada there and he came.

One of the people I was cultivating was the chief justice of the high court in Madras, and the chief justice arranged a program for Srila Prabhupada in the grounds near his home, and he invited all the judges and advocates, solicitors. And during his talk, Srila Prabhupada requested them to join the movement, and he gave the example of the Six Gosvamis, who were very highly placed in society, but they left everything. They left everything as insignificant and joined Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

After the program, Srila Prabhupada and the devotees went to the chief justice’s home to spend some time with him and have prasāda. And the chief justice presented Srila Prabhupada with a small silver figurine of Krishna. Also, speaking about the Six Gosvamis, Srila Prabhupada discussed their mood of separation. So, Srila Prabhupada was sitting on a seat, all the disciples were on the floor, and Sarasvati was maybe two or three.

So, Srila Prabhupada held this little statue of Krishna in front of her, and she. . . It was very attractive, it was Krishna, it was silver, and it was in Prabhupada’s hand. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “Sarasvati, who is this?” She said, “It’s Krishna.” Then he moved the little figurine behind his back and said, “Sarasvati, where is Krishna?” But she couldn’t see Krishna, so she moved around all the devotees, looking, but she couldn’t find Krishna.

Then, Srila Prabhupada again sort of reminded her, “Sarasvati, where is Krishna?” And again, that anxiety, “Where is Krishna?” She couldn’t find Krishna and she was really anxious. Then, Malati devi said, “Sarasvati, who has Krishna?” Her eyes lit up and she said, “Prabhupada has Krishna!” Then she went running up to Prabhupada and he took the little figurine of Krishna out and placed it in front of her.

So, through this episode, he was demonstrating that mood of separation of the Six Gosvamis that if one is so anxious to see Krishna, then Krishna appears. But he was also illustrating another point, as stated here:

PURPORT (continued)

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly. Lord Caitanya therefore designated Himself as gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, or “the most obedient servant of the servants of the Lord, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vṛndāvana.”

COMMENT

So, that is our actual position, our actual identity. In the beginning of this verse, Lord Chaitanya says, “I’m not a brahmachari, I’m not a grihastha, I’m not a vanaprastha, I’m not a sannyasi, I’m not a brahman, I’m not a kshatriya, I’m not a vaishya, I’m not a sudra, none of those things. But I’m gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, the servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vrindavan.”

In one talk that Srila Prabhupada gave in Detroit, he was making that same point about being the servant of the servant of the servant, and he said, “The more you become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant, the sweeter and sweeter and sweeter and sweeter Krishna consciousness becomes.” And he said that the material world is a perverted reflection or inverted reflection of the spiritual world, so everything that exists in the material world exists originally in the spiritual world.

So, there is pride in the material world, so what is the pride in the spiritual world? The pride in the spiritual world is, “I’m the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant. I’m the last in the line, that means I have the most masters.” And that is the devotee’s pride, “I’m the last servant in the line, I have the most masters.”

PURPORT (continued)

A pure devotee therefore never approaches the Lord directly, but tries to please the servant of the Lord’s servants, and thus the Lord becomes pleased, and only then can the devotee relish the taste of the tulasī leaves stuck to His lotus feet. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that the Lord is never to be found by becoming a great scholar of the Vedic literatures, but He is very easily approachable through His pure devotee.

In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the pleasure potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is a tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. Therefore, the mercy of Rādhārāṇī is available very readily to the sincere devotees, and once She recommends such a devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Lord at once accepts the devotee’s admittance into His association.

COMMENT

In The Nectar of Devotion, Srila Rupa Gosvami lists sixty-four qualities of Krishna, and one of them is compassionate. Srila Prabhupada explains that the compassionate nature of Krishna is represented by Srimati Radharani, but because Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it’s hard to approach Him, but devotees can approach Him through Srimati Radharani, who represents His compassionate nature, and once She recommends a devotee to Krishna, Krishna will accept that devotee.

In Varsana, which is the place of Srimati Radharani, they have a saying that whatever Radha does, Krishna likes, and whatever Radha likes, Krishna does. If She wants Krishna to accept a devotee, then Krishna will do it.

PURPORT (continued)

The conclusion is, therefore, that one should be more serious about seeking the mercy of the devotee than that of the Lord directly, and by one’s doing so (by the good will of the devotee) the natural attraction for the service of the Lord will be revived.

COMMENT

It’s not just that one wants to be admitted into Krishna’s association, one has to be eager for Krishna’s service. And by serving the servants of Krishna, one’s attraction for Krishna’s service will be revived. It is said that one develops the qualities of a person that one serves, as we discussed yesterday. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ, by serving great souls, the devotee’s liberation is opened, and tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, by serving materialistic people, going to hell is opened.

So, by serving devotees, we develop the qualities of the devotees whom we serve, and that includes attraction for the service of the Lord, attraction for hearing and chanting about Krishna, and all of their good qualities. As Srila Prabhupada said, he formed the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to give people a chance to associate with devotees and thus become devotees themselves. Everyone here is benefited by associating with that society, so now we should be good devotees and help others get that benefit. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: This verse is emphasizing service to the devotees. 

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: And you mentioned in your talk service is of two kinds, one is to follow and the other is through the instruction of the devotee.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that’s true.

Devotee: So, with the instruction to the devotees… So, my question is when we saw the instruction of the devotee it is to serve the Lord, so if Srila Prabhupada or spiritual gives an instruction, it is to engage the devotee in Krishna’s service. So the devotee will give an instruction to enage in the Lord’s service… [Unintelligible 01:05:19].

Giriraj Swami: Did everyone hear, or should I repeat it?

Devotee: Repeat.

Giriraj Swami: He says that this verse and purport emphasize serving the devotees, and that one can serve them by vāṇī, that means following their instructions, or by vapuḥ, their personal bodies. I mean, he didn’t say it, but I’m adding that Srila Prabhupada says that in the presence of the spiritual master, one should serve his body, and then when the spiritual master is no longer present, one should serve his instructions.

So, his question is that the devotee will instruct us to serve the Lord, which is true, but my response is that there is a method to serve the Lord. The method to serve the Lord is not to try to serve the Lord directly. So, even though he does tell us to serve the Lord, he tells us the method by which we serve the Lord, which is through paramparā, by serving the servants.

So, we can’t escape that. Even in the spiritual world, we won’t serve Krishna directly, but we’ll serve Him under some of Krishna’s eternal associates. So, even in the spiritual world, it’s paramparā, that’s just the way it works. I mean, we do have a direct relationship with Krishna, but even though we have a direct relationship with Krishna, still, we serve Him under the guidance or supervision of His eternal associates. Does that answer your question? Any other questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: The ghosts you were saying leaves the body and then tries to fulfill the desires so is this applicable to the devotees who are chanting the Hare Krishna mantra and try to practice and are following also do they get affected by the ghosts? 

Giriraj Swami: Well, ghosts can attack devotees, you can experience it, but the way to shake off the ghost’s influence is to chant the holy name. Of course, Srila Prabhupada did say that if one’s mind is weaker, then he is more likely to be attacked by ghosts. But even devotees can be attacked by ghosts, and the solution is just to chant the holy name.

Devotee: Is it not just attacking or something, but even if the ghosts want to tell me something, would it happen to the devotees as well?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s another point. I hope I’m understanding it correctly, but one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples told Srila Prabhupada that sometimes he gets crazy thoughts in his mind, he thinks of doing things that in his right consciousness, he would never think of doing. And is it possible that a ghost is influencing him to have those thoughts, and Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, it’s possible.”

In the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami composed a beautiful verse, bhukti-mukti-siddhi java. The meaning of the verse is bhukti-mukti-siddhi, that the desires for material enjoyment, impersonal liberation, or mystic perfection, one who has those desires is like a person who is haunted by a ghost. Because our real nature is to want to serve Krishna, it’s not our actual position to want to enjoy the senses, achieve impersonal liberation, or enjoy mystic perfection.

So, he says that persons who have those desires are like someone haunted by a ghost, because by the influence of a ghost, one desires things that he or she really doesn’t want. So, in our original pure state, we don’t want material enjoyment or impersonal liberation, so it’s like being haunted by a ghost, by a ghost’s desires.

Devotee: So, sometimes we hear devotees also commit suicide.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, they do.

Devotee: So, what is their destination by they really won’t want a ghostly body, they would have chanted Hare Krishna so what happens to them?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, well, it’s hard to say. Of course, I’m going to take this to another level just for the sake of the discussion, and that is that Lord Chaitanya had a disciple named Chota Haridas, Junior Haridas. Junior Haridas is a very good kirtan singer, but he was in the renounced order and he looked lustfully at the daughter of a pure devotee of Lord Chaitanya. As a result, Lord Chaitanya rejected him. And all the devotees of Lord Chaitanya appealed to Him not to be so harsh with Junior Haridas, but Lord Chaitanya was adamant. Eventually, that devotee went to Allahabad, confluence of the Ganges and Yamuna and Sarasvati, and committed suicide.

So, when the devotees informed Lord Chaitanya about what happened, He said, “Good. That’s the proper home.” But although outwardly Lord Chaitanya was displeased with him, Junior Haridas would come in his subtle form and sing for Lord Chaitanya and Lord Chaitanya would relish his kirtan.

So, Srila Prabhupada had a disciple who was a sannyasi, who fell down, and on the morning walk in Mayapur he asked Srila Prabhupada should the  sannyasi who had fallen down, do what Junior Haridas did and commit suicide.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes,” but then he went on to qualify that we wouldn’t do that in the consideration of remaining alive to do service. But when that disciple heard just the first part, that Prabhupada said, “Yes,” he dropped behind out of that group that was following Srila Prabhupada on his morning walk, and he decided he was going to go to the Triveni and commit suicide, which he did.

Later, devotees went there and sadhus told them that a foreigner came and he had them tie rocks to him so he could fall and drown himself. When Srila Prabhupada was asked about his destination, he said that it really depends on the consciousness. If he did it in the mood of separation, then he would be giving up his body in Krishna consciousness. But if he was doing it in a mood of atonement or even disappointment, then that would be a different case.

I mean, it happens, devotees do commit suicide. I mean, this was sort of a more exceptional case, but they do. But I think that the basic rule is that you get your next birth according to your thoughts at the time of death. I mean, it’s very possible that a devotee that commits suicide could be degraded. I can just try to pray for them. I know devotee parents whose children committed suicide, a very painful situation, I can just pray for them. Yes?

Devotee: Devotees who fall down and go fully into doing sinful activities is it that they can possibly go to hell? Is that correct?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if a devotee gives up being a devotee and engages in grossly sinful activities, he could go to hell. I mean, there is the idea that whatever one does, there is no comminution or loss. Generally, what Srila Prabhupada says is that they’ll take a low birth, but they’ll still have a chance to continue in devotional service in the next life even though they take a low birth. It’s in a purport in The Nectar of Instructions.

Devotee: So, it’s a sin? Let’s say we know things and we commit a sinful activity and we don’t know and we commit a sinful activity. Are the reactions different for different kinds of people? If I never knew that breaking the regulative principles is a sinful activity and I break them. Here, many people don’t know meat eating is bad and they eat meat and then a devotee who knows may for whatever reason eat meat. So, do the reactions vary for a person who doesn’t know and a person who knows?

Giriraj Swami: Why are you asking that question? I’m just curious.

Devotee: I’m asking because I know so many things now, so I have to be more careful than the person who doesn’t know so I am asking for myself.  

Giriraj Swami: Yeah. Well, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you are ignorant, you are going to be punished. But if you have the knowledge, you have greater responsibility to act accordingly. So, if you have the knowledge and you act sinfully, I mean, in one sense, it’s worse, but from another angle, you got the knowledge by associating with devotees, that means you got some mercy of devotees, so in that sense, although the reaction might be the same, it could even be worse, but the context of the reaction is better.

Srila Prabhupada gives the example that if an ordinary person commits a crime, he will be punished, and if the son of a king commits a crime, he’ll also be punished. But the ordinary person is just getting the reactions to his karma, there is not a personal tendency, but in the case of a devotee, although he does get a reaction, a punishment, it’s under the direct supervision of the Lord, like the son of the king.

And therefore, the ordinary person, it’s just mechanical, he is just getting action and reaction, but the context for a devotee, for the son of the king, is that it’s meant to help him become purified and make further progress. But the punishment is also mercy in that context. It’s painful, but it’s meant to help the fallen devotee become purified. All right, what is next?

Devotee: Breakfast prasādam.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, breakfast prasādam. Would someone like to lead the prayer, or do you do it when the food is in front of you?