SB 2.3.23 – Please the Lord by Serving His Servants

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: So, we shall read one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Three, Pure Devotional Service, Text Twenty-Three. Please repeat after me.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Please repeat.

TEXT 23

jīvañ chavo bhāgavatāṅghri-reṇuṁ

na jātu martyo ‘bhilabheta yas tu

śrī-viṣṇu-padyā manujas tulasyāḥ

śvasañ chavo yas tu na veda gandham

TRANSLATION

The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasī leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, the breathing dead body is a ghost. When a man dies, he is called dead, but when he again appears in a subtle form not visible to our present vision and yet acts, such a dead body is called a ghost.

COMMENT

So, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna has superior energy, which is the spiritual energy, parā-prakṛti, and the material energy or inferior energy, which is aparā-prakṛti. So, the spiritual energy is the living entities, the soul, and the material energy constitutes the body, which covers the soul. And Krishna mentions eight separated material energies: bhūmir āpo ‘nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca. Of those elements, five are gross, (earth, water, fire, air, and ether), and three are subtle, (mind, intelligence, and ego). So, when the soul leaves the body, it takes the subtle body with him, or you could say the subtle body carries him to the next gross body.

Now, in the case of a ghost, the living entity has only a subtle body and no gross body. And how does that happen that someone becomes a ghost? The most common way probably is suicide. If someone commits suicide, in effect, he is saying he doesn’t want a gross body. So, okay, Krishna fulfills all desires, so no gross body, just the subtle body. But the ghost has strong material desires, that’s generally why a person would commit suicide, because they have strong material desires and they feel very disappointed or frustrated that their desires were not fulfilled, and so they commit suicide.

PURPORT (continued)

Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others.

COMMENT

The reason is that the ghost has gross material desires but no gross physical body through which to fulfill those desires, and therefore, ghosts try to take possession of the body of someone else and fulfill their gross desires through the senses of the person whose body they possess. So, that creates a fearful situation.

Another way a person can become a ghost is if he or she is too attached to his home. We often hear of haunted castles. So, in such cases, the resident of the castle, or palace, or mansion, is very attached to the castle and leaves his or her body thinking of the castle. So, they can’t take birth as a castle because that’s not one of the life forms, but they can take birth as ghosts in the castle. And quite often, those properties go on the market for a much lower price than they would ordinarily fetch because people don’t want to buy a haunted house, but ghosts can be dispelled by chanting the holy names. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “We could buy haunted houses, nice properties, and then we can have kirtan and the ghost will go away, and we get a nice property at a cheaper rate to use as a temple for Krishna.”

PURPORT (continued)

The Lord never accepts any offering by such impure ghosts.

COMMENT

Well, the Lord accepts offerings made with love and devotion. But actually, Krishna does not need anything, but He appreciates the love and devotion with which an offering is made. So here, the non-devotees are compared to ghosts, and the Lord will not accept any offerings from non-devotees because by definition, they have no love and devotion.

Now, the next point.

PURPORT (continued)

There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved.

COMMENT

There is a saying, “Love me, love my dog.”

PURPORT (continued)

The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord.

COMMENT

In other words, the pure devotee is like the Lord’s pet dog. And in fact, when I first joined the temple in Boston and I was told about neck beads, devotees explained that Srila Prabhupada said that these are our dog collars, they show that we are Krishna’s dogs.

PURPORT (continued)

There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved. The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord. The first condition of devotional service to the Lord is therefore to be a servant of a pure devotee, and this condition is fulfilled by the statement “reception of the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who has also served another pure devotee.” That is the way of pure disciplic succession, or devotional paramparā.

COMMENT

So, in order to approach Krishna, we must first approach His devotee who has attained that position of devotee by serving another pure devotee, who in turn has served another pure devotee, and in that way, there is a chain that goes all the way back to Krishna. That is paramparā.

PURPORT (continued)

Mahārāja Rahūgaṇa inquired from the great saint Jaḍa Bharata as to how he had attained such a liberated stage of a paramahaṁsa, and in answer the great saint replied as follows (Bhāg. 5.12.12):

rahūgaṇaitat tapasā na yāti

na cejyayā nirvapaṇād gṛhād vā

na cchandasā naiva jalāgni-sūryair

vinā mahat-pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekam

“O King Rahūgaṇa, the perfectional stage of devotional service, or the paramahaṁsa stage of life, cannot be attained unless one is blessed by the dust of the feet of great devotees. It is never attained by tapasya [austerity], the Vedic worshiping process, acceptance of the renounced order of life, the discharge of the duties of household life, the chanting of the Vedic hymns, or the performance of penances in the hot sun, within cold water or before the blazing fire.”

COMMENT

So, these different processes, austerities, and other types of performances are certainly recommended in the Vedas. And they can help one become elevated to a degree, but the perfectional stage of devotional service, or the paramahamsa stage of life, cannot be attained unless one is blessed by the dust of the feet of pure devotees. And the words here; mahat means great devotee. Yesterday, we discussed mahatma, what is a mahatma, with reference to Bhagavad-gītā (9.13–14). So, vinā means without, mahat means great devotee, pāda means foot, rajo means dust, and abhiṣekam means to actually bathe yourself in the dust of the feet of a great devotee.

Now, what does that actually mean? Of course, it could be taken literally. Because the Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, bhakta-pada-dhūli āra bhakta-pada-jala bhakta-bhukta-avaśeṣa, —  tina mahā-bala, that these three substances, including bhakta-pada-dhūli, the dust of the lotus feet, are three very powerful substances; bhakta-pada-dhūli, the dust of the feet of a devotee, bhakta-pada-jala, the water that’s washed the feet of the devotee, and bhakta-bhukta-avaśeṣa, the remnants of food taken by a devotee. Tina mahā-bala, these three are very powerful substances.

But generally speaking, receiving the dust of the feet of the pure devotee or the mercy of the pure devotee takes the form of accepting their instructions or his instruction or her instruction and following the instructions. And that’s the way one attains the perfectional stage in devotional service, it’s mercy that one gets the instruction, and if one follows the instruction, by the mercy of the pure devotee, one can make advancement ultimately to the perfectional stage.

PURPORT (continued)

In other words, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly.

COMMENT

Srila Prabhupada demonstrated this principle, or illustrated this principle, very dramatically and vividly in relation to a devotee child who was maybe two or three years old. The background is that I went to Madras to begin our preaching activities there, and I met many important people there, including the chief justice of the high court, and I arranged a five-day program for Srila Prabhupada in a good location.

So, when Srila Prabhupada came, the chief justice was very eager to meet him, and he arranged a program near his home in the grounds to which he invited all high court judges and lawyers. And at that program, Srila Prabhupada appealed to the distinguished audience to join the Krishna consciousness movement, and he gave the example of the Six Gosvamis, that they were very highly placed in society but they gave it all up to join the movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

And in the end, he spoke about the mood of separation of the Six Gosvamis, he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. They were always roaming about Vrindavan, crying out, he rādhe vraja-devike, “Oh, Radharani, queen of Vrindavan.” He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ, “Oh, son of Nanda Maharaja, where are you? Are you on the banks of the Yamuna? Are you at Govardhana Hill?” These were their moods in executing devotional service.

So, after the program, Srila Prabhupada and the devotees went to the chief justice’s home for prasāda, and the chief justice presented Srila Prabhupada a silver figurine of Krishna. He kept many presentations of sandalwood garland, but also that silver figurine. And I’m coming to this point that Lord Sri Krishna is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such, only the devotee can deliver Krishna to another devotee.

So, within the disciples who were with Srila Prabhupada, there was his secretary, Shyamasundara, and Shyamasundara Prabhu’s wife, Malati, and their child Sarasvati, who at that time was two or three years old. So, Srila Prabhupada caught Sarasvati’s attention with the little deity and said, “Sarasvati, who is this?” She said, “Krishna.” So, she got attached to that Krishna, and then Srila Prabhupada moved his hand with the deity behind his back and hid the Krishna behind his back, and then he said, “Sarasvati, where is Krishna?” And she became very anxious, “Where is Krishna?” She was looking everywhere but she couldn’t find Krishna. She was really demonstrating that mood of separation of the Six Gosvamis, looking where is Krishna, looking around the devotees, looking around the room.

But again, because she was so young, her attention got distracted, and again, Srila Prabhupada said, “Sarasvati, where is Krishna?” And again, she was looking so anxious, “Where is Krishna? Where is Krishna?” Looking around the devotees, looking around the room. She couldn’t find Krishna. Then, Malati said, “Sarasvati, who has Krishna?” And then immediately, Sarasvati’s eyes opened wide with recognition and she said, “Prabhupada has Krishna,” and then she went running up to Srila Prabhupada and he brought the Krishna out from behind his back and held Him in front of her eyes. So, demonstrating, or illustrating the point.

PURPORT (continued)

Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly. Lord Caitanya therefore designated Himself as gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, or “the most obedient servant of the servants of the Lord, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vṛndāvana.”

COMMENT

So, in the full verse, Lord Chaitanya says, “I’m not a brahmachari, I’m not a grihastha, I’m not a vanaprastha, I’m not a sannyasi, I’m not a brahman, I’m not a kshatriya, I’m not a vaishya, I’m not a sudra.” “So, what are you?” Then He said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, “The servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, who maintains the gopīs of Vrindavan.”

And that being the servant of the servant is achieved through paramparā. One is the servant of one’s spiritual master, who is the servant of his spiritual master, who is the servant of his spiritual master, and so on. And even in the spiritual world, we don’t serve Krishna directly, we serve the servants of Krishna, we serve Him under their eternal guidance.

PURPORT (continued)

A pure devotee therefore never approaches the Lord directly, but tries to please the servant of the Lord’s servants, and thus the Lord becomes pleased, and only then can the devotee relish the taste of the tulasī leaves stuck to His lotus feet.

COMMENT

In other words, by serving the servant of the servant of the servant, one pleases the Lord, and then one can approach the Lord and relish the tulasi leaves at His lotus feet.

PURPORT (continued)

In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that the Lord is never to be found by becoming a great scholar of the Vedic literatures, but He is very easily approachable through His pure devotee.

COMMENT

Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau.

PURPORT (continued)

In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the pleasure potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is a tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. Therefore, the mercy of Rādhārāṇī is available very readily to the sincere devotees, and once She recommends such a devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Lord at once accepts the devotee’s admittance into His association.

COMMENT

So, in The Nectar of Devotion, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami enumerates sixty-four qualities of Krishna, and one of them is compassionate. But Srila Prabhupada explains further that because Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it’s hard to approach Him, but we can easily approach Him through His compassionate nature, which is represented by Srimati Radharani.

PURPORT (continued)

Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is a tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. Therefore, the mercy of Rādhārāṇī is available very readily to the sincere devotees, and once She recommends such a devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Lord at once accepts the devotee’s admittance into His association.

COMMENT

So, like they say, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. And so, we serve our spiritual master, he serves his, and not just serves, but also recommends, and then that goes all the way back to Radharani, to Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

The conclusion is, therefore, that one should be more serious about seeking the mercy of the devotee than that of the Lord directly, and by one’s doing so (by the good will of the devotee) the natural attraction for the service of the Lord will be revived.

COMMENT

So, the way we approach Krishna, I mean, we go through the disciplic succession of pure devotees, but we have to be attracted to His service. And we don’t want to go to Krishna just to become liberated or to enjoy our senses, but we want to go to Him to engage in service. And so, by this process, our attraction, natural attraction for devotional service to Krishna is revived, and then Krishna will accept us into His personal association to serve Him and His associates.

And as I mentioned yesterday, receiving the mercy of the devotee means following the devotee’s instructions. And Srila Rupa Gosvami in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu has enumerated five processes out of the sixty-four that are especially potent. He says that even by a slight association with any one of the five, if one is offenseless, one can awaken a dormant love for Krishna.

And the five are nāma-kīrtanaṁ, chanting the holy names, bhagavata-śravaṇam, hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, sādhu-saṅga. The actual definition of sādhu-saṅga given by Rupa Gosvami is sajātīyāśaye snigdhe sādhau saṅgaḥ svato vare. Sajātīyā I guess literally means of the same cast. But Srila Prabhupada says in his translation one who has a similar type of affection for the Lord. For us, it would definitely mean someone who has the same understanding and appreciation of Srila Prabhupada as we do. So, sajātīyāśaye snigdhe, so that was one translation, to have similar affection for the Lord, but it could also mean that the sadhu should be affectionate to us. Sādhu-saṅga means that sadhu should be affectionate to us. Svato vare means to be more advanced than oneself, that is sādhu-saṅga.

So, sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa, mathurā-vāsa, to reside in a holy place like Vrindavan or Mathura, and mūrtira śraddhāya sevana, to serve the Deity with faith and veneration. So, these are the five most potent. So, following the instructions of the sadhu, the pure devotee of the spiritual master means, of course, to follow all the instructions, but mainly to engage in those five practices.

Hare Krishna.

Are there any questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: Yes, although, Maharaja, we know that we should be respecting the devotees, but in practical life, sometimes it is not possible, so what we should do in that case?

Giriraj Swami: He says that although we know we should respect devotees, sometimes it’s not possible, so what should we do in that case? So, why would it not be possible?

Devotee: That might be my ego, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that is an obstacle. I mean, for all of us, false ego is an obstacle, and due to false ego, we want devotees to respect us and please us. And then, when they don’t, we might get upset.

My godbrother Bhurijana Prabhu says that people’s general psychology, I mean, they don’t really articulate it, but it’s there underneath, it’s as if everyone wants to do, “Excuse me, I have a very important announcement to make. I am the center of the universe and you should do what I want for my pleasure.” Another time he said that people live life as if it were a movie or a drama and they are the hero or heroine, and they want everyone else to be the supporting cast and make all the arrangements for them to have what they want, to be who they want.

So, this psychology or mentality, which is based on the false ego, gives rise to conflicts because if I’m thinking, I’m the hero and you should be my supporting cast, you think you are the hero and I should be your supporting cast, there is going to be conflict. So, we have to shed that false ego, we have to develop this mood, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ.

And Srila Prabhupada also said that. Once, there was some conflict in the temple, and a disciple asked how they can overcome the conflicts. And Srila Prabhupada said that if every devotee thinks he is the servant of the servant, then there won’t be any conflicts. But we want to be the master, false ego, and so there is conflict. So, how do we overcome false ego?

Well, one way is by hearing, by reading, being reminded and convinced and reminded again and convinced again that we are not the body, we are not the enjoyers, we are not the controllers, we are not the proprietors, we are just insignificant servants of Krishna. And then, by offenseless chanting and hearing, to cleanse the heart, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, to cleanse the heart of the dirty things. And so, Srila Prabhupada said, “What are the dirty things?” So, he said, “The first dirty thing is you think you are the body. It’s a false identification with the body, false ego.” So, we need to chant and hear and practice, practice being the servant.

When I first joined the temple in Boston, the devotees told me that Srila Prabhupada said that if any devotee asks you to do some service, you should agree, you should accept. And if any devotee offers to do service for you, you should refuse. That develops the mood of being the servant of the servant.

Yes, Radhika?

Devotee: Maharaja, I wanted to ask how does the principle of sādhu-nindā apply within family? Because sometimes in a family, relatives might be devotees, but in your relationship to them, you might end up discussing with other members or other relatives about maybe the nature of a person or some criticism, but because in the relationship with the person, they are not a devotee, you don’t look at them only as a devotee, you see them as a relative also.

And sometimes it might happen more than once, nobody wants to express in confidentiality, but because it’s a member, sometimes over a life, it might happen more than once, discussing the same things. But they are devotees also, so how does the concept of sādhu-nindā apply when it’s within family?

Giriraj Swami: Well, in bhakti, everything, at least a lot, depends on the consciousness or the mood. And it’s not only in the family. Even in a society of devotees, you can have trouble dealing with a particular devotee, and then you might want to ask someone for help in how to deal with that devotee, and in the course of asking for help, you will explain what the problem is with the devotee. So, if the purpose is to get some good advice, it’s not nindā. But if the purpose is to put the other person down and get people on your side to dislike that person and agree with you the person’s bad and sympathize with you that you have to put up with all that you have to, then that could involve an element of nindā.

And of course, it also depends who you are confiding in. If you are confiding in a mature devotee, then the pure devotee can sympathize with you and give you good advice and not get into nindā with you. But if you are confiding in someone more or less on the same level, who won’t maybe give you good advice and might just get into the same sort of criticism, then that will create an obstacle in your spiritual progress.

But it is important to always remember in a family where the members are devotees, remember that they are devotees, but there are also different levels of devotees. And of course, to find fault with a more advanced devotee is a bigger offense than to find fault with a less advanced devotee. But it’s really not good to criticize or blaspheme devotees, unless it’s for some good purposes.

Devotee: I have a question, Guru Maharaja. In the society of devotees, we have to deal with certain personality traits.

Giriraj Swami: Including your own.

Devotee: Yes. But the nature of false ego is that you don’t see your own personality, which may be cause of distress to others. And sort of constantly remembering the basic principle of practicing humility and tolerance helps to a great extent, sometimes it just feels a little difficult at a mature emotional level.

Giriraj Swami: What’s difficult, to recognize your own faults?

Devotee: Lack of tolerance and to keep going. And as you said in your welcome class, to remember it’s just the waves, but the main body of water is their devotion to Krishna, to keep their perception focused on the main body of water, not the waves.

Giriraj Swami: So, you are saying it’s hard to keep focused on the devotees underlying good and not be distracted by it.

Devotee: It’s just distressing. Just like on impractical levels, when you are serving together, the waves can be distressing.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, but we cooperate for a higher cause. Srila Prabhupada said, “Your love for me will be shown by however you cooperate after I leave.” So, that was there in Prabhupada’s time, we had differences, but we knew that Prabhupada wanted us to cooperate, and we gave more importance to Srila Prabhupada’s pleasure than to our own petty differences and just carried on as best we could to serve and please him and not get distracted.

Srila Prabhupada did give one interesting instruction to the leaders of the Hyderabad farm community. There were three of them, they were all very strong-willed individuals, but he wanted them to work together. So, he said, “You meet together, you fight like cats and dogs, and then when you all agree, you go ahead.” You don’t walk out, you just fight like cats and dogs, and then when you come to the consensus, you go ahead.

Yes?

Devotee: It would be a very theoretical question because I know I’m not even qualified to kind of think of that, but still, from theoretical purpose. Dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, the principle that we follow what mañjarīs [Unintelligible 01:13:51], do they ever get to see and serve Krishna? Or you only are kind of always at the periphery and never even see what Krishna looks like?

Giriraj Swami: No, no, you get to. I mean, I don’t need to go into a lot of detail, but you do. The mañjarīs are. . . That verse in the Gurv-aṣṭaka, to make different tasteful arrangements for the pastimes of Radha and Krishna, that’s what the mañjarīs do.

Yes?

Devotee: Going back to the first sloka that we were speaking of how there was a dead body that was breathing who never experienced the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee. That sloka, I know you put it in the context of ghosts, but can it also be in the context of us before we came to Krishna consciousness? That we were just dead bodies walking around breathing?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, exactly, perfect. Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, first of all, a comment that we are so fortunate to have been listening to you, a pure devotee of Prabhupada. But I’m a little confused about a remark you just made, maybe I misunderstood. You said we should serve a pure devotee of Krishna to get to Krishna, but you just made a comment, I think I misunderstood it, that Prabhupada told you not to allow somebody to serve you. But if you are a pure devotee, which you are, wouldn’t you give us a chance to serve you? Did I misunderstand, or was that what you said?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s a good point, that’s a good point.

Devotee: Because I would love to serve you who are really a devotee of the pure devotee and you can take me to Krishna, but if you don’t want any service, then where do I go from there?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada gave that instruction when we were all very new devotees, and he was trying to instruct us in the mood of service to offer service to others and not take service from others. But obviously, Srila Prabhupada accepted our service and offered it to Krishna, and if he didn’t accept our service, we wouldn’t have been able to fulfill the condition of serving a pure devotee who served another pure devotee. But that’s when there is more differentiation, different types of devotees. And in any case, a devotee will not feel that he is accepting service for himself, because his life is fully dedicated to Krishna, so whatever service he accepts is really in the line of service to Krishna. It’s a very good point, thank you for that.

Devotee: Thank you so much, Maharaja. But I would love to do service to you, and you are pure devotee of Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: I don’t know if I’m a pure devotee to Krishna.

Devotee: Yes, you are. That’s the humbleness.

Giriraj Swami: I don’t know about that either. But we don’t need to pursue that too much. But all right, we can talk about that if you want, but without further discussion. No, no, we can talk about it if you want.

Are there any other questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, it is so easy to find faults in other people, so what can I do to see the faults in me? How can I self-reflect better on my actions and my thinking process? Because in other people, I see faults very quickly, it doesn’t even take time, and then see so many things that they are doing wrong or something, but how can I self-reflect on myself?

Giriraj Swami: I mean, this could be discussed in more detail, but for you to see a fault in someone else means that you must have the fault yourself. Otherwise, how could you recognize it in them? When Krishna tested Yudhisthira and Duryodhana, He asked Duryodhana to go around the kingdom and let Him know how many honest people there were. So, he went around and he came back, he said, “There are no honest people,” because he was dishonest, so he was saying everyone is dishonest. And then He asked Yudhisthira the same thing, and Yudhisthira came back, he said, “There are no dishonest people, everyone’s honest,” because he was honest, so he saw everyone else as honest. So, there is that saying, ātmavan manyate jagat, “As you think of others, others also think.”

So, if you see some fault in another person, you could consider that you must have that same fault. You probably do because we all have pretty much every fault. But then if you think of yourself, you’ll probably think you have all those faults, but underneath it all, “I’m a good person.” So, you could apply that to the others also, underneath it all, they are good people.

Yes?

Devotee: Will there come a point in our spiritual development where human conflict just doesn’t exist anymore, where we are just very compassionate, and where we are just able to see the good in everyone? Do we ever reach that point in our spiritual development?

Giriraj Swami: You could.

Devotee: Have you seen it in a lot of people?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t think that’s really the point. The point is whether we can come to that. It may be rare, pure devotional service is rare, but still, that’s our goal. And I don’t have statistics, but I do have friends and colleagues who are very compassionate and caring, and the relationships among them are very congenial and nourishing and rewarding and affectionate.

Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, thank you for your class, first of all. I truly liked the point where you said a lot of times, we are trying to be the center of the universe, puffed up by our false ego. So, I think that is true, it happens with us. So, it’s not ideal, of course, to do that for devotees. When we want other devotees to serve us, we should always try to be on the other side of it. But how do we do that with people who are not devotees when we deal with people in general? And of course, I’m not saying that our mood should be that with them, we should try and utilize them for our service, but even if we don’t do that, they want that to happen, they want you to be serving them. So, I think my question here is, what should be our mood dealing with them?

Giriraj Swami: Well, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. Srila Prabhupada said, “If someone takes advantage of you but you don’t lose by it, then we don’t mind if they take advantage of us.”

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. Thank you so much.

Giriraj Swami: Yes?

Devotee: Another theoretical question, Maharaja. I only have theoretical questions.

Giriraj Swami: They may be theoretical now, but they could be very practical later on.

Devotee: So, you said Krishna and Radha, the feminine form, feminine consort, whereas if you read the scriptures, Krishna has no lingadeha [gender form] . I mean, I don’t know how I say in English, if there is a better way of saying that. There is no lingadeha, no gender, the gender kind of body for Krishna or anybody. And at the same time, you say that there is the male and the female, feminine form. So, how do I understand that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada said resembling, that Radharani is the tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. So, we have differences of gender based on our biology.

Devotee: Biology.

Giriraj Swami: There is no biology in the spiritual sky, everyone has spiritual bodies, but the material world is an inverted reflection of the spiritual world. So, whatever we have in the material world must also exist in the spiritual world, but in its original pure form. So, there are men and women in the spiritual world, but not based on biology and hormones and things like that, but because that’s the original form of male and female. I don’t know if that answered your question.

Devotee: I’ll take that as an answer, and hopefully, one day, Krishna will probably Himself help me get my comprehension to the level where I can understand it.

Giriraj Swami: What don’t you understand?

Devotee: What is that ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham – I know it’s the original form and we are the reflected form, but in the reflected form, what do I see? In the original form, how would a male look like, how would a female look like, and how do we call them a male, and how do we call them a female, and still, there is no linga, there is no anatomical differences.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are anatomical differences. The anatomical differences are in spiritual bodies, not in material bodies, but they have the same general differences between men and women that we have.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, is it appropriate if I add a  [Unintelligible 01:28:21] based on Srila Prabhupada’s purport.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the way you phrased it, it sounds very appropriate.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada writes in one of the purports in Vaikuntha, men and women, and he describes the beauty of women as beautiful women, and as men how their bodies smell, what kind of clothes they wear, how they are with their favorite [Unintelligible 01:28:50]. But he said that because their consciousness is completely on a spiritual platform, they are not attracted to one another as we are, they are united in serving the Supreme Lord, and that is their union. I am simply repeating what Srila Prabhupada wrote.

Giriraj Swami: It’s an appropriate reference, it is. Any other. . . Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, I have a question. I love Krishna and Kanha, Kanha and Krishna. I think about Krishna anytime. So, my last name is Khanna. So, my question is, do people spoil the real name last name Kanha, it could have been Kanha, did people change it from Kanha to Khanna?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:02].

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:04].

Giriraj Swami: I don’t quite follow the question. Kanha, you talking about Kanyalal?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:36].

Giriraj Swami: Oh, I know many Khannas.

Devotee: So, he is asking if it’s a perverted form of Kanha or Krishna.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:53].

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:30:56].

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:31:08].

Giriraj Swami: Gopala Krishna Maharaja’s surname is Khanna. So, anyway, whatever way we can remember Krishna is good. So, if by the Punjabi name Khanna you remember Krishna, that’s good.

Yes, Vrinda?

Devotee: So, I have a question. So, if someone is asking a non-devotee, “Why are you killing animals?” That person can easily say, “Well, you kill plants. Plants are also living entities.” So, I wanted to know how to respond to that question.

Giriraj Swami: That’s a very good question. How old are you, Vrinda?

Devotee: Nine.

Giriraj Swami: Nine. So, Vrinda is asking that we might challenge someone, “How can you eat meat? How can you kill an animal?” And they could reply, “Well, you also kill plants, so what’s the difference?” So, there are two answers to that.

The first is that most of what we eat does not involve killing. If we take an apple from a tree, we don’t kill the tree. A few things do involve killing, like eating a potato, which is why jains don’t eat potatoes, because they don’t want to kill. But there is a big difference between killing a potato and killing a cow. Because we distinguish between killing a person, a human being. Everyone would agree that killing human beings is wrong because a human being has more highly developed consciousness, can realize God. So, the more highly developed the consciousness, the more sinful it is to kill. So, definitely, killing a potato is not on the same level as killing a cow.

The other answer is that even if it’s just a potato, it is sinful. But as Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, those who prepare food for their own bodily nourishment eat sin, whereas those who eat the remnants of food offered to Him in sacrifice are released from all sin. And also, it is stealing because everything belongs to Krishna, so whatever we take to eat is stealing, but Krishna will give us permission. I mean, we can’t take without permission, but He will give us permission if we prepare the food and offer it with love and devotion to Him, and it’s authorized. So, in that sense, taking prasāda is different from just being a regular vegetarian.

So, I think if you can, which I’m sure you can grasp those concepts and explain them, you can answer those types of challenges, “You are also killing, so what’s the difference?” There is a difference, big difference.

Devotee: Maharaja, I have one question about one talk you gave about the idea of offering prasāda. Now, Christians and Muslims, they also say grace. Will their grace be considered as an offering? Or how do they then offer food?

Giriraj Swami: By adding Krishna consciousness to what they already are. Like Srila Prabhupada said, you can remain whatever you are, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, and add Krishna consciousness. I mean, I don’t know that much about Christianity and Islam, but I don’t think that they have a system of offering that’s really comparable to what we have in Krishna consciousness. Of course, saying grace, acknowledging that the food is coming from God, and feeling grateful to God for giving us the food, it’s good, I mean, it’s God consciousness. But I’m not sure that that’s sufficient to completely remove the sinful reactions involved in especially eating non-vegetarian food.

But in the esoteric practices in the different traditions, even Hindus, the general people are not that elevated, but there are some who follow the more esoteric aspects of the tradition. So, in those traditions, they are vegetarian. It says that for a highest Muslim, it’s better not to eat meat. And Christians, I forget the details but there have been more esoteric sects within Christianity that are vegetarian. But still, it doesn’t include their offering the food exactly the way we do, so I don’t know if it could really be called prasāda, but there is some God consciousness, so that’s good.

Devotee: Just extending actually the question that Vrinda said. The question she asked and you answered it. In fact, actually, it was kind of a situation where we were having a similar topic discussion, and the counter logic that came when at that particular time, obviously, the second question is much easier to give the answer with the counter question that came on when you say that there are more evolved forms and more those kind of forms and there are more higher census and human is good than the plant, the counter data that came from the other side was so are you saying that if one of our human being friend is [Unintelligible 01:40:22] and is not having a lot of senses functional, then it’s good to kill them because they are having less senses involved and because your logic is saying that the lesser of the senses probably it’s easy, it’s okay. So, less evolved form, and so, somebody’s crazy. And so, it was kind of becoming very difficult debate to kind of get into it and I don’t know how to explain it.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada used that exact same argument in the opposite way.

Devotee: Okay.

Giriraj Swami: That suppose a parent has a child who hasn’t developed properly, does that mean that the parent will allow you to kill the child? So, that child who hasn’t developed properly is like an animal in a sense. So, just as the father wouldn’t allow you to kill a brother or sister who had some impairment, so he also doesn’t want you to kill animals who are in a sense like that.

Yes?

Devotee: Hare Krishna. So, what is the reaction, or what happens if somebody eats, by mistake, non-vegetarian or some meat or some chicken?

Giriraj Swami: And then he finds out?

Devotee: He finds out.

Giriraj Swami: Well, he should pray to Krishna, “I did this by mistake, I didn’t intend to, so please excuse me.” I think that’s all we can do, because it’s already after the fact. I mean, we could as a sort of atonement you could say or as a sort of positive step take might be to distribute copies of the higher taste or something that will help the cause of vegetarianism, you could say, or prasadatarianism.

Yes?

Devotee: Praṇām, Maharaja, my question or concern or just curiosity, what can manage the anger? If you can reflect on some aspects of that.

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada said when you feel angry, you should think of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. Have you been here for the whole discussion?

Devotee: Yeah.

Giriraj Swami: So, if you feel yourself like the servant of the servant of the servant, then you probably won’t get angry.

Devotee: But when anger comes, it comes like a sword also, a hundred miles per hour, so it doesn’t give us time to think or to calm down who you are and where you are, it comes and just grabs hold. That's the reason I am asking this question. There is no time to think and analyze that I’m getting angry, so I better be careful, it just comes and takes over.

Giriraj Swami: And then what happens?

Devotee: And then you lose your consciousness, I mean, in myself.

Giriraj Swami: How does your anger manifest itself?

Devotee: Just ego.

Giriraj Swami: No, no, no. I mean, when you get angry, do you throw yourself on the bed and start bumping the bed? I mean, what do you do when you become angry?

Devotee: Change up the tone of the voice and getting blood pressure high.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: Things like that.

Giriraj Swami: Right. So, if you express your anger towards someone, then afterwards, as soon as possible, you should apologize for having gotten angry and spoken in that tone or spoken with that language. As far as your blood pressure, of course, they do say to take a deep breath. I mean, if you can remember before your outburst to take a deep breath.

Devotee: There is no time for deep breath, some people are like that, Maharaja, they are burning inside. There is a difference. I mean, look at you and look at some people, they cannot tolerate even one word, which they don’t like, they flame up.

Giriraj Swami: Then when they calm down, they should apologize. When they calm down, they should apologize.

Devotee: Yeah, [Unintelligible 01:46:49]. Ravana was also like that.

Giriraj Swami: What about Ravana?

Devotee: He is citing the example of Ravana. 

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:47:03].

Giriraj Swami: All right. He gave me another thought, which is that you can dovetail your anger for a good cause. Hanuman was angry, so he burned down Lanka. Arjuna was angry, so he fought the Kauravas.

After the first Delhi pandal, one young man who had attended the program came to visit Srila Prabhupada at a home where he was staying in Delhi. He was becoming very eloquent, and he was saying that if everyone takes to Krishna consciousness, people will love each other and there’ll be no more anger. And Srila Prabhupada said, “What’s wrong with anger? Who told you there is something wrong with anger? Krishna spoke the whole Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry so he would fight. You can’t fight unless you are angry. So, what’s wrong with anger?” So, like anything else, it’s a matter of how it’s used.

Devotee: Maybe clean the temple.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, yeah, clean the temple. Take it out in all that dirt, and kick out all that dirt, smash that dirt. Excellent idea.

Devotee: Thank you.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:49:38].

Devotee: Thank you very much, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, so now, what comes next on the program here?

Devotee: There is prasāda.

Giriraj Swami: There is prasāda?

Devotee: Yeah.

Giriraj Swami: Well, good. After all that talk about prasāda, there should be some practical application. All right, well, thank you very much.

Devotee: Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya! Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Hare Krishna.

[Unintelligible 01:50:44].

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

[Unintelligible 01:51:09].