BG 3.10 – Sankirtana-yajna for the Present Age

Host: So we are very honored to have Giriraj Swami Maharaja here, this evening. We are really really honored. Thank you for coming. So I’m going to read his bio.

Giriraj Swami was born Glenn Phillip Teton, the only son of a respected Chicago lawyer who was later appointed judge. In March of 1969, while studying at Brandeis University in Boston, he met His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), from whom, he felt, he learned more in one brief exchange than he had learned in many years of academic education. After graduating from Brandeis cum laude, he accepted formal initiation from Srila Prabhupada and received the spiritual name Giriraj dasa. Giriraj quickly became a leading member of the Boston center, and he was soon given the opportunity to go to India with Srila Prabhupada and help establish his mission there.

In 1972, Prabhupada appointed Giriraj president of ISKCON Bombay and trustee of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Since then, he has made many significant contributions to Srila Prabhupada’s mission, most notably overseeing all aspects of the development of the Hare Krishna Land in Juhu, Bombay. He was instrumental in the acquisition and development of the Bhaktivedanta Ashram in Govardhan and led the development of the Kirtan Ashram for women, the Bhaktivedanta Hospice, and the Vrindavan Institute of Palliative Care, all in Vrindavan.

Through his efforts, Giriraj Swami has become renowned for the austerities he has accepted, his loyalty and dedication to Srila Prabhupada’s mission, his ability to raise funds and cultivate important members of society, and his care for devotees around the world.

In the year following Srila Prabhupada’s departure in 1977, Giriraj was awarded the renounced order of life, and appointed president of ISKCON’s board of trustees in India. In 1982 he was appointed to ISKCON’s Governing Body Commission, and he went on to oversee the Society’s activities in Bombay, Mauritius, South Africa, Spain, Portugal, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan.

Giriraj Swami has also taught at the Vrindavan Institute for Higher Education and continues to lecture and to give presentations at japa retreats and workshops around the world.

Presently based in Carpinteria, California, Giriraj Swami is now focusing on one of the main personal instructions he received from Srila Prabhupada: to write. He is the author of “Watering the Seed” and “Many Moons” and is working on several publications, including books about death and dying in the Vedic tradition, his search for a spiritual master in his early days in the Boston temple, his travels with Srila Prabhupada in India, and Srila Prabhupada’s monumental efforts in Bombay, and Vaishnava holy days. 

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. So we shall read a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter Three, “Karma-yoga,” Text ten. Please repeat after me.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya  

Please repeat.

TEXT 10

saha-yajñāḥ prajāḥ sṛṣṭvā

purovāca prajāpatiḥ

anena prasaviṣyadhvam

eṣa vo ‘stv iṣṭa-kāma-dhuk

TRANSLATION 

In the beginning of creation, the Lord of all creatures sent forth generations of men and demigods, along with sacrifices for Viṣṇu, and blessed them by saying, “Be thou happy by this yajña [sacrifice] because its performance will bestow upon you everything desirable for living happily and achieving liberation.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada 

The material creation by the Lord of creatures (Viṣṇu) is a chance offered to the conditioned souls to come back home – back to Godhead. All living entities within the material creation are conditioned by material nature because of forgetfulness of their relationship to Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Vedic principles are to help us understand this eternal relation, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. The Lord says that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Him. 

COMMENT 

So, there is more to the commentary, but we’ll just go over a few points because this purport is packed with important information. So the first point is:

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada 

The material creation by the Lord of creatures (Viṣṇu) is a chance offered to the conditioned souls to come back home—back to Godhead. 

COMMENT 

So, what is the purpose of the material creation? We just read it.

Devotee: To get back to Krishna, to the spiritual world.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. 

PURPORT (continued)

All living entities within the material creation are conditioned by material nature because of their forgetfulness of their relationship to Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

COMMENT

So we are conditioned because of our forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with Krishna, and therefore the purpose of human life is to revive our relationship with Krishna.

PURPORT (continued) 

The Vedic principles are to help us understand this eternal relation, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. The Lord says that the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Him. In the Vedic hymns it is said: patiṁviśvasyātmeśvaram. Therefore, the Lord of the living entities is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu.

COMMENT 

So here in the purport, Srila Prabhupada is explaining some of the important words in the Sanskrit verse. I mean all the words are important and, so he is explaining that the, because the verse doesn’t directly mention Vishnu but it describes Him indirectly, and in the purport, Srila Prabhupada is giving other references that give the same type of description.

PURPORT (continued) 

Therefore, the Lord of the living entities is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu.

COMMENT 

Vishnu is another name for Krishna.

PURPORT (continued) 

In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also (2.4.20) Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī describes the Lord as pati in so many ways.

COMMENT 

Here in the verse, He is described as prajā-pati. What does pati mean? P-A-T-I. 

Devotee: Owner?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, pati. What are husbands called?

Devotee: Pati.

Devotee: Pati also.

Giriraj Swami: So it means master, Lord, protector. 

PURPORT (continued) 

So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also (2.4.20) Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī describes the Lord as pati in so many ways:

śriyaḥ patir yajña-patiḥ prajā-patir

dhiyāṁ patir loka-patir dharā-patiḥ

patir gatiś cāndhaka-vṛṣṇi-sātvatāṁ

prasīdatāṁ me bhagavān satāṁ patiḥ

The prajā-pati is Lord Viṣṇu.

COMMENT 

Prajā, what does prajā mean?

Devotee: Population.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

PURPORT (continued) 

The prajā-pati is Lord Viṣṇu, He is the Lord of all living creatures, all worlds, all beauties, and the protector of everyone. The Lord created this material world to enable the conditioned souls to learn how to perform yajñas (sacrifices) for the satisfaction of Viṣṇu.

COMMENT 

So earlier we read that the Lord created this material world, why? What was the purpose?

Devotee: To go back to Godhead.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Krishna it’s just kind of odd, Krishna set this up, created this separation on purpose, so that we would go back to Godhead, right?

Giriraj Swami: Well. . .

Devotee: I mean the separation is in the material world.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, but we came into the material world by our choice. But although we turned away from Him and came here, He didn’t forget us or neglect us, and so He came and spoke the Bhagavad-gītā to help us come back to Him. But it’s said, “Sometimes the child will run away from home and forget the parents but the parents never forget the child.” So yeah. . . so coming back to this connection here, the first sentence in the purport.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada 

The material creation by the Lord of creatures (Viṣṇu) is a chance offered to the conditioned souls to come back home – back to Godhead. 

COMMENT 

And now. . .

PURPORT (continued) 

The Lord created this material world to enable the conditioned souls to learn how to perform yajñas (sacrifices) for the satisfaction of Viṣṇu.

COMMENT 

So that’s how we go back to Godhead, by performing sacrifices for the satisfaction of Vishnu.

PURPORT (continued) 

So that while in the material world they can live very comfortably without anxiety.

COMMENT 

So who wants to live very comfortably without anxiety? Everyone.

PURPORT (continued) 

And after finishing the present material body they can enter into the kingdom of God.

COMMENT

Who wants to enter into the kingdom of God? Okay.

PURPORT (continued) 

That is the whole program for the conditioned soul. By performance of yajña.

COMMENT

What does yajña mean?

Devotee: Sacrifice.

Giriraj Swami: Sacrifice.

PURPORT (continued) 

By performance of yajña, the conditioned souls gradually become Kṛṣṇa conscious and become godly in all respects. In the Age of Kali. . .

COMMENT 

So there are four ages in Vedic time calculation and the four ages repeat in cycles like the four seasons. And so in different ages, different methods are recommended for self-realization. So in Satya-yuga the recommended process is meditation. In Treta-yuga, the recommended process is Vedic sacrifices. In Dvapara-yuga, the recommended method is temple worship. And in the present age of Kali-yuga, the recommended method is to chant the holy names of the Lord, 

harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva
nāsty eva gatir anyathā

So harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva—chant the holy names, chant the holy names, chant the holy names, kalua—in this age of Kali-yuga, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva- there is no other way, no other way, no other way, gatir anyathā—for success in self-realization.

PURPORT (continued) 

In the Age of Kali, the saṅkīrtana-yajña (the chanting of the names of God) is recommended by the Vedic scriptures, and this transcendental system was introduced by Lord Caitanya.

COMMENT 

. . . who is Krishna in the role of a devotee.

PURPORT (continued) 

. . . for the deliverance of all men in this age. Saṅkīrtana-yajña and Kṛṣṇa consciousness go well together.

COMMENT 

In other words, by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña you become Krishna conscious and when you are Krishna conscious you perform saṅkīrtana-yajña. They go well together.

PURPORT (continued) 

Lord Kṛṣṇa in His devotional form (as Lord Caitanya) is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.5.32) as follows, with special reference to the saṅkīrtana-yajña:

kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam

yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ

“In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence. . .”

COMMENT 

Su-medhasaḥ means good intelligence. There is another word which is the opposite, which is alpa-medhasaḥ, which means poor intelligence. And that verse is used in the Bhagavad-gītā to describe the worshipers of demigods. Demigods are living entities like us but they have been awarded powerful positions in the universe, either in charge of planets or in charge of departments. So Brahma, Shiva—although he is not a living entity but he is a demigod—Durga, Ganesh. They’re demigods, there are many demigods.

So the Bhagavad-gītā says that those who worship the demigods are alpa-medhasaḥ, poor intelligence. And now this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says those who perform saṅkīrtana-yajña are su-medhasaḥ, very intelligent.

PURPORT (continued) 

“In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence will worship the Lord, who is accompanied by His associates, by performance of saṅkīrtana-yajña.”

COMMENT 

So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ. So Krishna means Krishna, Varna means category, like we have varnas and ashrams, there is a system varnashrama dharma, so varna means category. So this verse describes Lord Chaitanya, and it says kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ which means He is in the same category as Krishna, which means He is Krishna. tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ, so. . . ‘ā’ the prefix ā means not, and Krishna means blackish. So, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ, so He is in the same category as Krishna but He is not of a blackish color like Krishna. 

Now this indirectly indicates that He is of a yellowish color, a golden color. Because when Krishna was born, of course He is never born, but when He had the pastime or līlā of appearing to take birth, His father Nanda Maharaja invited the family priest Gargamuni to do His astrological calculation and name-giving. Many of the names in the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Mahābhārata seem to describe a person’s qualities and so you might think that, well people just made up the name to describe their qualities but the way it came about actually is that the, as in this case, the family priest would come and do the horoscope and by doing the astrological calculations ascertain the person’s future qualities and activities, and then they gave the name that was appropriate to the prediction. 

So this, so when Krishna appeared, Gargamuni, the family priest, explained that in different ages He came in different colors, and by process of elimination, the only color left was the yellowish color or golden color, which would come in the next age, our age Kali-yuga because Krishna was in the previous age Dvapara-yuga. So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ, He is in the same category as Krishna but He is not, He doesn’t have the blackish color. 

sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam—sango means like associates, associated with His, and this is the, of course He had many associates, but primarily this refers to the Pancha-tattva. 

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

Yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah—so those who will, who have good intelligence will worship this incarnation of Krishna through saṅkīrtana-yajña.

In kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ, varna also means varnaya means to describe, so kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ means like He is always describing Krishna, glorifying Krishna. It’s another meaning of kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ as it applies to Lord Chaitanya in this verse. 

So, but a general translation.

PURPORT (continued) 

“In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence will worship the Lord, who is accompanied by His associates, by performance of saṅkīrtana-yajña.” Other yajñas prescribed in the Vedic literatures are not easy to perform in this Age of Kali, but the saṅkīrtana-yajña is easy and sublime for all purposes, as recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā also (9.14).

COMMENT 

So there is harmony amongst the different scriptures and you may know this verse.

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

[Gītā 9.14]

So satataṁ means always, and kirtan means chanting the name or glories of Krishna.

“Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.”

So the same idea. And as many or all of you probably know there are two general ways of chanting Hare Krishna, one is loudly with musical instruments, it’s called kirtan; and then the other is more quietly, mainly for one’s own self to hear and that is called japa. And yeah, both are important. For devotees who want to be initiated by a spiritual master in the Krishna consciousness movement, they have to chant at least sixteen rounds of japa per day, which takes about two hours, which isn’t that much. And you can be initiated and officially connected with the guru-paramparā.

Hare Krishna. 

So are there any questions or comments? Is anyone here for the first time? What is your name?

Devotee: Robert.

Giriraj Swami: Robert. And have you come to any programs of Krishna consciousness or this is absolutely the first?

Devotee (Robert): Yeah.

Giriraj Swami: Wonderful, and what inspired you to come? 

Devotee (Robert): Just very interested in seeing what this is about.

Giriraj Swami: Good, yes, so do you have any of the books? The Bhagavad-gītā or. . .

Devotee (Robert): Yeah.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, if you want to find out what it’s about, that would be a good way. So do you have any questions? 

Devotee (Robert): I don’t.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, anyone else?

Devotee: Well, I have a question about Lord Chaitanya’s color, because I always heard that Lord Chaitanya is like the color of Radharani.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: It’s golden.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Right, that was the, I mean what you are saying is that well that was the last color, that was the only color left. So I guess I’m a little confused about that.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I mentioned that there is these four ages that repeat cycles and, but it’s not that Lord Chaitanya comes in every Kali-yuga. It's very special that Lord Chaitanya came. Just like it’s not that Krishna, the Original Personality of Godhead comes in every Dvapara-yuga. But Lord Chaitanya comes only in the Kali-yuga that immediately follows the Dvapara-yuga in which Krishna appeared, the Original Personality of Godhead. 

So there are yuga, you know there is a yuga avatar for every Dvapara-yuga that is not always Krishna the Original Personality of Godhead, similarly there is always a yuga avatar for Kali-yuga that it’s not always Lord Chaitanya. So that’s truly, that He is. . . yeah, He is Krishna with the luster, the mood and the luster of Radharani.

Devotee: I got it.

Giriraj Swami: Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: I have a question.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Nowadays, like there are so many ways and paths of following spirituality, is it necessary to attach ourselves with one particular sect of religion?

Giriraj Swami: What do you think? 

Devotee: Because now is like I know, every third person says that spirituality what it is all about, but how do I know that what I am calling spirituality is actual spirituality?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, well that’s a very good point. dharma, you mentioned religion, dharma, sometimes translated as religion. So dharmaṁ tu sākṣād-bhagavat-praṇītaṁ—dharma means the orders of God. So if you want to follow dharma or religion, you have to know who God is and what His orders are, and very few people do, although they talk about religion. They’re very proud to say I’m Hindu or I’m Christian or I’m Muslim, but if you ask them actually who God is and what His orders are, they don’t know. So to be a religious person one would need to know who is God and what are His instructions and then to follow them.

Yeah, it’s one of the characteristics of Kali-yuga, of the present age, that people can’t distinguish between the true path of religion and false paths, they can’t distinguish between true teachers and false prophets. But yeah, those who are fortunate or intelligent will come in contact with a genuine path, genuine teacher and follow it. 

But one can be, what to say, if one actually follows say Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, they can make progress. But just today I read an interesting account of Srila Prabhupada meeting with two Christian priests, and he asked them, “First question, do you believe that God is a person?” They said yes. “Second question is, do you believe that we are meant to love and serve God?” They said yes. “Third question, do you believe that the only thing that separates us from God is sin?” Sin by definition means transgressing the laws of God. They said yes. And then he said, “Then why don’t you teach them how to stop sinning?” And there are four basic sins called the pillars of sin, mentioned in the scripture, and that is eating meat, fish, and eggs, taking intoxicants, having illicit sex, and gambling. So without following those principles, it’s very hard to make progress in spiritual life. But if one chants, even if one is attached to those four activities, the chanting will cleanse the heart so that one gives up the desire for those activities. So it’s not a question of willpower or denial, but it’s a matter of cleansing the heart and developing a higher taste. 

If you say you have some, say a dry chapati – that’s all you have—and if someone says you know, “Give me your dry chapati,” you won’t give it because it’s all you have. But if you bring a beautiful plate of sumptuous prasāda and you say, “If you give me your dry chapati, I’ll give you this plate of prasāda,” and of course you’ll do it. So people don’t give up something for nothing, but they will give up something to get something better. So, yeah.

Devotee: I have another question, like can I be spiritual but not religious?

Giriraj Swami: How do you define spiritual, and how do you define religious?

Devotee: Life nowadays there are so many ways to seek spirituality, to seek the spirit within me, is it necessary for me to bind myself with one of the religious followings?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if we take religion to mean, to know God and His instructions and follow His instructions, then yeah there has to be some authority, you can’t be your own authority on God. You can’t just imagine God is this, and God wants that, or speculate God is this, and God wants that. And the Bhagavad-gītā is God’s, it’s the literal record of God’s spoken words, so it’s the most authoritative statement, which could sound like sort of a sectarian or we were promoting the Bhagavad-gītā because we follow it but it’s more the other way. I mean I wasn’t born into a tradition that followed the Bhagavad-gītā, but when I understood that this is God, Krishna speaking and also the Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for any particular group or sect. The word Hindu does not appear anywhere in the Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it’s not meant for Hindus. And the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā are universal, like Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, 

dehino ‘smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati

that just as the soul passes from youth’s body, to middle-aged body, to an old-age body within this lifetime, so the soul passes into another body at the time of death, and a sober person is not bewildered by that change.

So is that only for Hindus? That you go from kaumaram. . . that means like age five to ten, yauvanam—that means youth, jara—old age. That only for Hindus? That’s universal, is for everyone.

So yeah, and therefore Srila Prabhupada would say, “If you are Hindu or Christian or Muslim, you can remain whatever you are but add this, you’ll become a better Hindu, or a better Christian, a better Muslim.” It’s not sectarian, it’s scientific.

Devotee: If I choose to practice this, do I, is it okay for me to not believe in God and then practice this?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. It’s like, it’s the same thing, it’s like giving up those vicious activities, that if you chant, you’ll automatically give them up. So you chant, involve in the process, even if you don’t believe in God, you will come to believe in God because you’ll experience His presence and His intervention in your life.

Devotee: I have a question, so what if I say, I accept and I’ve accepted for a while like Krishna’s God, and overall whenever I read the scriptures it brings me great joy, and I really like doing it. But I get to certain parts, they like to go against my conventional way of thinking, and I kind of shut down. Like we were just having a discussion about the moon before this all started, we had discussion about, and so the science described in the Bhāgavatam is different from conventional and I guess because I was raised as, or my job is as a scientist so I get stuck and I start to kind of shut down on that part. But I accept what I feel is the most important thing, and I kind of feel like I have to, like I can’t pay attention yet to some of the other stuff because it starts to seep doubt.

Giriraj Swami: So what is it that you found contrary to your scientific. . .?

Devotee: Well we were talking about the moon, and that Srila Prabhupada said that the moon was closer to the earth, no the moon was further away from the earth than the sun was to the earth.

Devotee: Before you came, generally we start with an icebreaker and today’s icebreaker was, What would you do if you went to the moon?

Devotee: Yeah so we got into this really tangent, let’s just say that we got onto a tangent, but it brings up an interesting experience for me personally because there are certain parts of the Bhāgavatam that they’re pretty far out there and they’re explaining planets and stuff, and on one hand I can kind of accept most of it, but then there is stuff that starts to grate against my conventional way of thinking, and so I tend to just ignore those parts, and focus on stuff that brings me closer to Krishna rather than stuff that takes me. So I don’t know, after more years of chanting and reading, will I become more comfortable with it? Or how do I reconcile those two aspects?

Giriraj Swami: Well the Bhāgavatam is, everything in the Bhāgavatam is meant to bring us closer to Krishna. And even things like the description of the universe, which apparently is only indirectly related to Krishna, is meant to inspire us with an appreciation of Krishna’s majesty and potency. Now as far as reconciling descriptions in the Bhāgavatam with what we know from science, there have been essays and books by devotees, written on that very subject. In fact, Srila Prabhupada had one disciple named Sadaputa dasa. He is brilliant, he was a mathematician Richard Thompson, he wrote many books. And yeah, there are, let’s put it this way, there is quite a bit of deficiency in modern science.

Devotee: Sure and I accept that, I guess for me right now, it’s easier to kind of ignore it and put it off to the side than confront it. So I don’t know if that’s proper or. . .

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s okay.

Devotee: Okay.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s fine. 

Devotee: She and I have talked for years about this because I’ve struggled too also. I don’t struggle like you struggle.

Devotee: Yeah, I struggle.

Devotee: But because when I get to something or not so much or something in the movement or some idea and I don’t, I don’t buy it or I don’t believe it or I do put it aside but I don’t struggle with it when I just tell myself I can’t accept everything, and I’m not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I’m not going to let go of this philosophy just because of this point here. And like you said, maybe I’ll just kind of come to it. So I don’t know I guess over the years that’s the way I’ve sort of handled and there aren’t many things. I’m not talking about a lot of things, but that’s the way I’ve psychologically handled some things maybe I just don’t align with because of maybe former spiritual study or something. But I don’t struggle with it. I just, I do put it to side and I keep going, just keep going, that’s just the way I’ve managed to, but there aren’t many things and I realize that there are movements, there are people, there are conditioned souls and that they all. . .

Giriraj Swami: So what’s an example of something that you’ve put aside?

Devotee: Well it’s not, well okay so the Vedic philosophy about the material world, I have an understanding of Kabbalah for many years of study from the Kabbalah center and the idea isn’t to so much, they do talk about the physical reality, but the concept of money they taught us a lot about have huge desire to make money, but not for the material world, to get to share it. It’s similar to the idea here but then we’ll squash the desires.

Giriraj Swami: Well, if I might comment on that. The Krishna conscious idea objectively speaking is superior because they’re saying, “Get lots of money to share with others.”

Devotee: Right.

Giriraj Swami: Which is okay, but who does the money belong to?

Devotee: They believe that the money doesn’t belong to them, they believe the same, I think.

Giriraj Swami: That, we both agree.

Devotee: Right.

Giriraj Swami: It doesn’t belong to us.

Devotee: Right.

Giriraj Swami: My question is, who does it belong to?

Devotee: Well I believe it belongs to Krishna, to the light.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, you believe. 

Devotee: I believe that.

Giriraj Swami: I believe that too, but what do they believe? What do the Kabbalists believe?

Devotee: They believe that we don’t own the money.

Giriraj Swami: So that’s what I’m saying, that they, that we agree with them, we don’t own the money, but they don’t, from what you’ve said, have a clear idea of who does own the money.

Devotee: All of everything belongs to the light, according to them.

Giriraj Swami: To the light?

Devotee: The light of God, everything belongs to the light of God.

Giriraj Swami: It belongs to the light of God?

Devotee: To the light of the creator.

Giriraj Swami: Belongs to the creator, okay. So then we should use it as the creator would want us to use it.

Devotee: Right.

Giriraj Swami: So we have to know who the creator is, and how He wants us to use the money. And so how is that different from Krishna consciousness?

Devotee: It’s similar, I mean it’s really similar but there is some just fine points about that because for a while there I thought, Okay, let me make a lot of money because I want to, I really want to share this money with some big projects with the Kabbalah center over the world. And I have, not huge amounts of money but peace process, things like that. 

They’re combining the Palestinians with the Israelis, and they’re teaching them and they’re bringing them together and teaching just some basic tenets. I thought that was a really important project so I didn’t want to squash my desire to make money because I wanted to make money to share and in here too, I mean.

Giriraj Swami: Well, we don’t squash people’s desire to make money.

Devotee: I just, the connotation of the, yeah, I just kind of have a different taste to it, it’s similar but it has just a different flavor. 

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s true. Yes?

Devotee: I do have a comment, thank you for coming. When you start off the teaching with the Sanskrit you had us repeat, and I’ve always enjoyed that when you come to teach and it’s just, I like it when you break it down. Because the more I read the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it seems like I’m going at a slower pace, but I found out it’s okay because I’m getting more quality, like I’m getting more understanding. Instead of just reading it like a book I realized that I’m going back to other scriptures to record what he is trying to say and that’s, I think that’s your approach, what you did tonight is very beautiful, because you mentioned the third Chapter and then you went to Chapter nine, and it’s very comforting to see that. Because I kind of do that, even in the beginning for me to understand Krishna consciousness, I had to relate to Christian science because I came from a Christian background. And sometimes when I read the Vedas or Bhagavad-gītā that helps me understand Christian science. And then Christian science helps me understand what the Vedas are saying. 

So I have to know both to understand what they’re both saying and then I get a harmony of what Krishna’s trying to say to us.

Giriraj Swami: Well Srila Prabhupada did say that the basic principles of every bona fide religion are the same.

Devotee: Oh, so I was gonna comment also on that, because I’m in science as well. And the way, I know what you meant by the facts that Prabhupada, he’ll say some things that aren’t completely aligned with modern-day science, but the way I processed it was, he is speaking from the perspective of a devotee not as a scientist, he is not, he yeah he, it’s all about perspective kind of like what he was saying, is that he is speaking from the perspective of a Krishna devotee basically. 

So it’s about, so you have to put yourself in the shoes of Krishna’s, a pure Krishna devotee to really process that, because when he talks about stuff in science, he is talking about material science or spiritual science, not material science, like the thing, he is not concerned about the distance of things really.

Devotee: So my thing is though, he is not overlaid with what she is overlaid with. You know Madhavendra Puri from Boston temple?

Devotee: We had many discussions on this, I also came from Boston. You knew him and he was very into this question, right reconciling the two and he spent years and years working on this, and we would talk about it, but I guess my feeling is Krishna made the world for us, so the laws exist because of Krishna, all of the things that we are observing exists because of Krishna is either, whether you want to say we are in illusion or not, it’s not separate from Him and that’s how I feel about it. So it’s like, you know what I mean? It’s not separate, it’s just I may not understand though from the, because I’m not a pure devotee like you say like I don’t, maybe I don’t completely understand what Prabhupada means sometimes or how they gel.

Devotee: I mean yeah and then just chanting and reading I don’t know, that’s just how I got over that because that’s literally your heart is so strong, the exterior of your heart so strong so it takes years to soften that seriously. And it’s not, I’m not telling you to blindly go into this either, I’m saying that it took me a while to soften and then the softening was all described in the Bhāgavatam like you, like in the Bhāgavatam it says everyone starts out as impersonalist as kind of just the brahmajyoti like studying the brahmajyoti, and it’s just yeah, it’s just all there, I guess.

Devotee: Okay, thank you for coming. I was regarding what they’re saying, it’s interesting because I was reading the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and there is a Chapter where it says that for modern day scientists it is literally impossible to reach the moon or other planets with material science technology, what do you think about that? 

Giriraj Swami: What do you think about it?

Devotee: Well I agree with the, I agree with the book, it’s impossible for modern scientists to go to the moon.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Or any other planet.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: So whatever it is presenting to us about the moon and all these landings, to me and according to the book, is fake. 

Giriraj Swami: I mean, Srila Prabhupada has discussed different aspects to that idea and, but as far as you personally, you are fine because you accept what’s in the book. And the other scientist is in the kitchen so, we don’t have to worry about her, so we are all okay.

Devotee: She missed it.

Giriraj Swami: We are all okay. I mean one thing that Srila Prabhupada said that could be useful in this discussion is that when it comes to very big issues, science doesn’t have it right, and when it comes to the very minute elements of existence, they don’t get it right, but in between they can get some things right.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: All right, thank you all. Now I mean whatever it is, we haven’t been able to manufacture food, we get it by the grace of God, we haven’t been able to synthesize food. So, and this is special food because it’s prepared with love and devotion and offered to Krishna. So Hare Krishna.