SB 2.3.23 – How to Approach the Supreme Lord and Experience Real Life

Giriraj Swami: I will sing some prayers of invocation for the mercy of the Lord and the spiritual authorities in the line and then we will discuss.

[Prayers]

Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: We welcome you to this evening’s program. We shall read one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Three, “Pure Devotional Service,” Text twenty-three. The verse is written here, so you can try to follow along.

TEXT 23

jīvañ chavo bhāgavatāṅghri-reṇuṁ

na jātu martyo ‘bhilabheta yas tu

śrī-viṣṇu-padyā manujas tulasyāḥ

śvasañ chavo yas tu na veda gandham

TRANSLATION

The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasī leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

COMMENT

Please repeat.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, the breathing dead body is a ghost. When a man dies, he is called dead, but when he again appears in a subtle form not visible to our present vision and yet acts, such a dead body is called a ghost.

COMMENT

So, just to give the philosophical background, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna has two energies; the spiritual energy and the material energy. And the living entities, that is us, we are spiritual energy. And there are eight divisions in the material energy; earth, water, fire, air, space, those are the five gross elements, and mind, intelligence, and ego are the three subtle elements.

So when the soul leaves the body, it leaves behind the gross body made of the gross elements, and it travels with the subtle body which is made of mind, intelligence, and ego, into the next gross body, according to its karma and its consciousness at the time of death.

Now, a ghost is a soul who has the subtle body made of mind, intelligence, and false ego, but no gross body. And how one becomes a ghost? We will discuss. Not so you can become ghosts, but so you can avoid becoming ghosts.

PURPORT (continued)

Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others.

COMMENT

So ghosts have material desires but they don’t have a gross body and senses with which to fulfill their desires. And so they try to possess another person’s body, so they can try to enjoy through the senses of that person.

There is a movie called “Ghost” which came out I think in the 1980s, and devotees were saying that they thought that the author of the story must have read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anyway, I wasn’t going to movies or anything but in those days they had in-flight movies that were projected on screens and I saw it on a flight. And there is one scene where the ghost is on a railway platform and there is a vending machine and he wants to smoke a cigarette and he is a ghost, he doesn’t have a gross body but he wanted that cigarette. So he is banging on the vending machine, he couldn’t get any cigarettes, he didn’t have any money.

Soyeah, so now, how does one become a ghost? Probably the most common way is by committing suicide, because if someone commits suicide in effect they are saying they don’t want a gross material body. But that living entity continues to exist and it has a subtle body made of mind, intelligence, and false ego. And as a ghost it’s very frustrating; I mean he was already frustrated with this, he had material desires, he was frustrated, disappointed, and so he committed suicide and became a ghost.

Another way, which explains why many castles are haunted, is that the resident will be so attached to that castle or mansion that at the time of death he thinks of the castle. Well, we can’t take birth as a castle because that’s not one of the eight million four hundred thousand species of life, but they can take birth as a ghost in that castle or palace or mansion.

Now, ghosts can be, well they can be liberated from their ghostly existence and they can definitely be driven away by the chanting of the holy names as we were chanting Hare Krishna maha-mantra.

And so Srila Prabhupada said because haunted houses generally sell for much less than their real value because people don’t want to buy a haunted house. So Srila Prabhupada said, “We can buy these haunted houses at a good price and perform kirtan, and then the ghosts will go away and we’ll have a nice property as a temple.”

PURPORT (continued)

Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others.

COMMENT

They try to possess them.

PURPORT (continued)

Similarly, the ghostlike nondevotees who have no respect for the pure devotees, nor for the Viṣṇu Deity in the temples.

COMMENT

Vishnu is another name for Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

Create a fearful situation for the devotees at all times.

COMMENT

I’ll read that again.

PURPORT (continued)

Similarly, the ghostlike nondevotees who have no respect for the pure devotees, nor for the Viṣṇu Deity in the temples, create a fearful situation for the devotees at all times. The Lord never accepts any offering by such impure ghosts.

COMMENT

So the Lord is perfect and complete, He doesn’t need anything from us, but what He wants is our love and devotion. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā He says:

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

“That one who offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a fruit, a flower, or some water I will accept it.” So, the main ingredient is bhakti, sometimes Srila Prabhupada gives the example that at a dinner table a child will taste something nice and he’ll say to the father that, “Oh, this is really nice you should have some,” and he’ll offer it to the father. So every, the house, the table, and everything on the table is coming from the father, from his earnings, but still, he appreciates that mood, that the child wants him to enjoy something nice from the food. So in the same way even though Krishna doesn’t need anything, He appreciates when a devotee offers Him something in the spirit of love. So, non-devotees by definition do not have a love for Krishna and so Krishna won’t accept any offerings from them.

PURPORT (continued)

There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved.

COMMENT

There is a saying – “love me love my dog.”

PURPORT (continued)

The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord. The first condition of devotional service to the Lord is therefore to be a servant of a pure devotee, and this condition is fulfilled by the statement: “reception of the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who has also served another pure devotee.” That is the way of pure disciplic succession or devotional paramparā.

COMMENT

So, this series of verses from this section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is basically making the point that if one is not engaged in devotional service, he is dead. All his activities and features are useless. And this verse is one of that series, and this verse is saying that, “A person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body,” because he has no devotional service, bhakti, and bhakti is the life of the living entity. Without bhakti the living entity is in a sense dead, lifeless.

Sowho is a pure devotee? We want the dust of the feet of a pure devotee, who’s a pure devotee? He is someone who has served another pure devotee, who in turn has served another pure devotee. And Srila Prabhupada says that is the way of pure disciplic succession or devotional paramparā. Paramparā literally means one after another, and so our service to Krishna is offered through paramparā, and knowledge from Krishna is received through paramparā.

In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says:

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

That the knowledge that He was giving in the Bhagavad-gītā was received through paramparā and that’s the only way. And that system of paramparā is established by the Lord Himself and in fact, five thousand years ago Krishna detected that the paramparā was broken and so He wanted to speak the Bhagavad-gītā again and start a new paramparā with Arjuna. And in the beginning of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, there is a list of the paramparā, you can trace that disciplic succession. It goes from Krishna to Brahma, to Narada, to Vyasa, to Madhvacharya and so on, Lord Chaitanya, the six Gosvamis, more recently Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and then our Srila Prabhupada.

So, we receive the knowledge through paramparā and we offer the service through paramparā. We serve our guru, he serves his guru, he serves his guru, all the way back to Krishna. So, that is the way of pure disciplic succession or devotional paramparā.

And in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says:yogo naṣṭaḥ paran-tapa, that when the paramparā is broken the science becomes lost, naṣṭaḥ sort of means spoiled. You might have some nice food but if it’s spoiled you don’t want to touch it. So that’s what happens to the knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā without paramparā.

PURPORT (continued)

Mahārāja Rahūgaṇa inquired from the great saint Jaḍa Bharata as to how he had attained such a liberated stage of a paramahaṁsa, and in answer the great saint replied as follows.

rahūgaṇaitat tapasā na yāti

na cejyayā nirvapaṇād gṛhād vā

na cchandasā naiva jalāgni-sūryair

vinā mahat-pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekam

“O King Rahūgaṇa, the perfectional stage of devotional service, or the paramahaṁsa stage of life, cannot be attained unless one is blessed by the dust of the feet of great devotees.

COMMENT

And “dust of the feet of great devotees” is in italics for emphasis.

“It is never attained by tapasya [austerity], the Vedic worshiping process, acceptance of the renounced order of life, the discharge of the duties of household life, the chanting of the Vedic hymns, or the performance of penances in the hot sun, within cold water or before the blazing fire.”

COMMENT

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.12.12.

PURPORT (continued)

In other words, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly. Lord Caitanya therefore designated Himself as gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, or “the most obedient servant of the servants of the Lord, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vṛndāvana.”

COMMENT

So this, “Sri Krishna is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Krishna to another devotee.” This fact was demonstrated by Srila Prabhupada in a wonderful interaction he had with a four-year-old girl. At the time I was preaching in Madras, and in the course of meeting “big” people I was able to meet the Chief Justice of the High Court and he was very interested. So when Srila Prabhupada came to Madras, the Chief Justice arranged a program near his home in [Unintelligible 00:42:13] and invited other justices and advocates and solicitors. And in his talk, Srila Prabhupada spoke about the six Gosvamis, how they were also very highly placed in society but they left everything to join Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And so Srila Prabhupada was appealing to them, that they should give up everything and join the mission of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

So, after the program, the Chief Justice invited Srila Prabhupada and the devotees to his home and he gave Srila Prabhupada different presentations, and one was a little silver figurine of Krishna. And Srila Prabhupada’s secretary at the time was named Shyamasundara and Shyamasundara’s wife was named Malati and they had a daughter named Sarasvati who was maybe four years old. So, Srila Prabhupada held this little statue of Krishna in front of Sarasvati and said, “Who is this?” And she said, “Krishna.” So,then he slowly took that deity and hid it behind his back, then he said, “Sarasvati, where’s Krishna?” Because she wasn’t looking, focused on Srila Prabhupada, she was a little girl and she was distracted. Soshe couldn’t see Krishna and so she became very alarmed, where is Krishna? Soshe was looking all over the room, looking at all the devotees, where is Krishna? She couldn’t find Krishna.

And in this process, she was exemplifying the mood of the six Gosvamis, he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ, they were always wandering around Vrindavan and searching he rādhe, Oh Radharani, vraja-devike, Queen of Vrindavan, he nanda-sūno kutaḥ, Krsna son of Nanda Maharaja, where are you? Areyou on the banks of the Yamuna, or are you at Govardhana Hill? And that was their mood in executing Krishna consciousness and that mood of separation is very central to the practice of bhakti in the line of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the six Gosvamis. But you can only feel separation if there is some attachment, but if you are attached to someone and then the person leaves then you can feel separation.

So, Sarasvati, she was looking around and she couldn’t find Krishna. Again, Srila Prabhupada says, “Sarasvati, where is Krishna?” And again she started looking, she couldn’t find. Then her mother, Malati, gave her a hint and she said, “Sarasvati, who has Krishna?” And immediately, Sarasvati’s face lit up in recognition and her eyes opened wide and she said, “Prabhupada has Krishna.” And then she went running up to Prabhupada where he was sitting and then he brought out the Krishna from behind him.

So this is illustrating the point that;

PURPORT (continued)

Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly. Lord Caitanya therefore designated Himself as gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, or “the most obedient servant of the servants of the Lord, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vṛndāvana.”

COMMENT

So we’ve heard that the material world is an inverted reflection of the spiritual world. So, once I asked Srila Prabhupada’s disciple Pradyumna who is a Sanskrit scholar; Prabhupada gave him the nickname Panditji. Iasked him, “We, okay so we have pride in the material world, so what is the pride in the spiritual world?” And he replied that in the material world everyone wants to be the master of the master of the master, so he replied that in the spiritual world everyone wants to be the servant of the servant of the servant, and the devotee’s pride is that he is the last servant in the line, he has the most masters. So that’s, and that was how Lord Chaitanya presented Himself, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, the servant of the servant of the servant.

PURPORT (continued)

A pure devotee therefore never approaches the Lord directly, but tries to please the servant of the Lord’s servants, and thus the Lord becomes pleased, and only then can the devotee relish the taste of the tulasī leaves stuck to His lotus feet. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that the Lord is never to be found by becoming a great scholar of the Vedic literatures, but He is very easily approachable through His pure devotee.

COMMENT

Yes, vedeṣu adurlabha, very difficult to find through the Vedas, sudurlabha ātma-bhaktau—- easily achieved through a devotee.

PURPORT (continued)

In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the pleasure potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

COMMENT

Haveall of you been to our temple here? Hasanyone not been to the temple? Yeah, well, if you go to the temple you’ll see the main worshipable Deities are Radha and Krishna. And on the cover of this book, it’s a small picture but I hope you can see it, so there is Radha and Krishna, these are the deities in Juhu, Mumbai. So, that is our highest object of worship; Radha and Krishna. Sometimes, yeah, people ask, do you concieve of God as a man? But our conception is both male and female; Radha and Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

In Vṛndāvana. . .

COMMENT

Vrindavan is a holy place in India where Lord Krishna manifested His pastimes 5000 years ago and yeah many devotees go there to live and develop their bhakti and Krishna consciousness.

PURPORT (continued)

In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī.

COMMENT

Yeah, there was a very nice devotee, he has passed away, he was an elderly gentleman named Krishna dasa Swami. And he, when he went to Vrindavan for the first time as a youth, he was struck that the rickshaw drivers, they ring a bell or something so people know they are coming and they move out of the way. But he was struck in Vrindavan they just say Radhe! Radhe!

PURPORT (continued)

In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the pleasure potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

COMMENT

So pleasure potency in Sanskrit is hlādinī-śakti, and she gives pleasure to Krishna and the pleasure that we get out of rendering devotional service also comes from the pleasure potency, from Srimati Radharani.

PURPORT (continued)

Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is a tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. Therefore, the mercy of Rādhārāṇī is available very readily to the sincere devotees, and once She recommends such a devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Lord at once accepts the devotee’s admittance into His association.

COMMENT

So in “The Nectar of Devotion” there are sixty-four qualities of Krishna enumerated and one of them is compassion. And Srila Prabhupada explains that because Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead it’s difficult to approach Him but His compassionate nature is represented by Srimati Radharani, and therefore devotees can approach Her very easily. And if She recommends someone to Krishna, Krishna will accept.

In Vrindavan, well I should say more specifically in Varsana, which is part of the Vrindavan area but it’s a place of Srimati Radharani. So, they have a saying that whatever Radha likes Krishna does, and whatever Radha does Krishna likes. So whatever Radha does Krishna likes. So if she recommends someone, Krishna will definitely accept it.

PURPORT (continued)

The conclusion is, therefore, that one should be more serious about seeking the mercy of the devotee than that of the Lord directly, and by one’s doing so (by the good will of the devotee) the natural attraction for the service of the Lord will be revived.

COMMENT

So when we get the mercy of Krishna which comes through paramparā, we become inclined to devotional service, we become attracted, and that is what makes us eligible for pure devotional service and eligible to enter into the kingdom of God. So yeah, Srimati Radharani is very important. And sometimes Srila Prabhupada has given the example that if you want to offer a flower directly to Krishna, He might or might not accept it, but if you offer the flower to Srimati Radharani and She offers it to Krishna, then Krishna will definitely accept it. And, but even Srimati Radharani, we don’t really approach directly but through paramparā.

And in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna describes the mahatmas, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, that they have taken shelter of the daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, this divine energy, and that ultimately is Srimati Radharani. So, we are taking shelter of devotees who have taken shelter of other pure devotees but ultimately they’ve all taken shelter of the internal potency, or pleasure potency Srimati Radharani. So, Srimati Radharani is very important for us and for Krishna what to speak.

And when we chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, so the Hare is Radharani. So we are really chanting, “Radha Krishna, Radha Krishna Krishna Krishna Radha Radha.” Yeah, “Hare,” “Hara” is the name of Radharani and Hare is addressing Her. Radha and then Radhe, Radhe is addressing Radha—- he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite.

So good, very good, you are all here, you are all chanting, you are hearing, you are serving devotees, everything looks very bright. Hare Krishna. Arethere any questions or comments?

Sowhat’s next? Oh, yes.

Devotee: So earlier you talked about ghost.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: So our, one of the two ways you mentioned, the second way where they are attached to some place and they are haunting that place. Dothey also move to different areas? And I heard that in the night time generally they are more active and they can [Unintelligible 01:00:14].

Giriraj Swami: Well yes, as we read, ghosts are always very bad elements creating. . ., because they are like I mentioned, they are looking for a body to possess so they can fulfill their desires through that body.

Devotee: Theycan influence your choices also?

Giriraj Swami: I suppose so, I mean once Srila Prabhupada’s disciple Bhavananda Prabhu said to Srila Prabhupada that sometimes he has thoughts that pass through his mind that he wouldn’t really think in his proper consciousness. And so he asked Srila Prabhupada, could that be a ghost that’s influencing him to think like that? And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, it could be.”

But we should, the ghost can influence the mind, but higher than the mind is the intelligence. So, and the mind can be influenced by ghosts and by all sorts of other influences, but with our intelligence we have to control the mind.

Yes.

Devotee: Soif this devotee has ghosts should I stay away from him, or help him chant more?

Devotee: I always thought to make friends with a bunch of ghosts. You can get a little gang of ghosts to have with me. I’d like to come back as a ghost, maybe scare a bunch of people.

Giriraj Swami: No. But don’t worry, you are pretty scary the way you are. So yeah, if someone is haunted by a ghost, yeah, we should chant for the person, encourage the person to chant. I mean sometimes, I mean I’ve experienced sometimes while sleeping, that I feel a ghost is. . . and from good instructions I chant and then you can feel the ghost goes away. Yes.

Devotee: The translation it says, “The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body.” So,can you please elaborate on what is actually the dust of lotus feet mean and who’s the pure devotee?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah that’s, well a pure devotee we’ve discussed, is well, someone who’s served another pure devotee. Pure devotee, pure devotional service is described by Rupa Gosvami, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ.

Devotee: ñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu- śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. So, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ means without any other desire. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, and the service is not covered by jnana, that means speculative knowledge or karma fruitive work. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena, ānukūl means favorable, should be favorable to Krishna’s pleasure. And to render a favorable devotional service we need to know what Krishna wants, and if we offer Him what He wants, then that’s favorable, ānukūl.

I met a big man in Bombay, and he was boasting about how devotional he was to me, I met him in his office. And he was saying he won’t even drink tea without putting tulasi in it. So that’s not favorable because Krishna doesn’t accept tea. So ānukūl, we have to know what Krishna wants too, and there is a definition of surrender, ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyasya varjanam, the first two of the six items are to accept whatever is favorable for devotional service and reject whatever is unfavorable.

So anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu- śīlanaṁ,kṛṣṇānu, it means it should be rendered to Krishna. Serving demigods; Brahma, Shiva, Durga, Ganesh, that doesn’t count as bhakti, [Unintelligible 01:06:32]. So kṛṣṇānu- śīlanaṁ, ānu has two meanings, one meaning of ānu is to follow, we are followers of Rupa Gosvami—- so we are rūpānugas. And ānu also means continuous, and śīlanaṁ means cultivation. So yeah, so pure devotional service is a continuous cultivation following the authorities. Bhaktir uttamā—- that’s called pure devotional service.

So, a pure devotee, you could say in simple terms is someone who is serving Krishna without any desire for material return.

And Srila Prabhupada, because someone asked Srila Prabhupada, “How many pure devotees are there in the world?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “How many disciples do I have?” And he explained because someone can be a pure devotee but in an immature state, he gave the example of a raw mango and a ripened mango, they are both mangoes but the ripened mango it’s sweeter and juicier. So from the beginning, one can be a pure devotee. And in one letter Srila Prabhupada said, “Anyone who is surrendered to the spiritual master is a pure devotee.” But that pure devotee can ripen and become more sweet and juicy in the more advanced stages.

So that’s a pure devotee. And what was the other part of your question?

Devotee: The dust. . .

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes,that’s what I was going to mention, I’m glad you brought it up, what does that mean? Well, in a way it could mean literally the dust. In Srila Prabhupada’s last days I got to massage his lotus feet and I could feel the dust, the little particles of cintāmaṇi. But more generally, the dust of the lotus feet is the instructions, so taking the dust on one’s head means taking the instructions on one’s head, which means following the instructions. But it can also mean bowing down to the lotus feet, taking the dust.

Because Prahlada Maharaja was a great devotee but his father was a big demon, Hiranyakasipu, and an enemy of Vishnu, Hiranyakasipu. And so one day Hiranyakasipu asked his son what’s, he was five years old “What’s the best thing you learned in school?” We might ask a child what did you learn in school today? So Prahlada replied, “Devotional service to Vishnu,” which made his father very upset. And so his father called for the boy’s teachers, and he said, “My son is speaking favorably about Vishnu who’s my enemy, you are teaching him the wrong things.” So they said, “No, we are not teaching him that.” He said, “Well, then you are allowing Vaishnavas in disguise to enter the school.” They said, “No, we are not.” Sothen, and he said, “Well then how did he get this devotion to Vishnu?” They said, “Well you better ask him directly.”

So he called for his son and Prahlada replied that you cannot, matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā, that one’s inclination towards Krishna cannot be awakened by one’s own efforts, or by the efforts of others, or by the combined effort of oneself and others. So it would seem logically that all the possibilities have been excluded.

mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekaṁ

niṣkiñcanānāṁ na vṛṇīta yāvat

Then he said that, “One can become Krishna conscious only if he is blessed by the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee.” And indirectly he was saying, he was telling his father that, “You don’t need to worry about becoming Krishna conscious because you are too puffed up, you’ll never bow down to the lotus feet of a pure devotee, so you don’t need to worry about that.” But yeah, that’s yeah.

When you bow down to the feet of a pure devotee, that’s an act of submission or surrender, and then the pure devotee will reciprocate by giving instruction, spiritual instruction. Like the verse in the Bhagavad-gītā [Chapter Four]:

TEXT 34

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

COMMENT

So one should approach a spiritual master, tad viddhi, to receive the knowledge, tad viddhi. Praṇipātena, that means to bow down. But it’s yeah, it’s bowing down but the bowing down is a token of one’s surrender. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena, then one can ask questions. And sevayā, render service. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge because he has seen the truth, tattva-darśinaḥ.

There was a famous singer named Boy George, have you heard of Boy George? So,ah?

Devotee: 1980s.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Some of them were born in the 90’s and 2000s.

Giriraj Swami: So,Boy George, he met devotees, he was influenced bydevotees and he went to Vrindavan, and he wrote a song called “Bow DownMister,” have you heard it? Yeah, “Bow Down Mister.” Because he knew devotees and he knew devotees always bowed down. But when he went to Vrindavan he saw a lot of the pilgrims there or the local people, they weren’t bowing down, so he wrote that song “Bow Down Mister,” what are you doing?. So yeah, bowing down is definitely part of our process.

And, one of Prabhupada’s early disciples Gargamuni, so he saw the early devotees they were bowing down to Srila Prabhupada and he said to Srila Prabhupada, “Idon’t have that feeling of bowing down like the others do, what should I do?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “You should bow down anyway and the feeling will come.” So yeah, a lot of Krishna consciousness is like that. We do it and then the feeling comes.

Any other questions or comments? Yes.

Devotee: Whatif one is lucky enough to obtain Krishna and then would one continue doing service for the servants of Krishna? Or if you are lucky enough to be a servant of Krishna?

Giriraj Swami: That is an excellent question. Yes, when we go to the spiritual world, we will still serve Krishna’s servants, we won’t serve Krishna directly. I mean we will serve Krishna directly but in paramparā. Okay, say we are, of course, there are different rasas, different relationships. But say you are serving Radha and Krishna, so you serve under Lalita and Visakha and then they have their maidservants like Rupa Gosvami or Rupa Manjari and that, and so you’ll serve under their guidance. It will be direct but still, you are under the guidance.

So what we have here, paramparā, the same exists in the spiritual world. Yes.

Devotee: Iwas wondering about how when we whistle, I heard we tear holes in the ether and ghosts and stuff around come through, I was wondering is there any way that can be used in Krishna’s service?

Giriraj Swami: Whistling?

Devotee: Whistling, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I mean we want to chant all the time and when you are whistling you can’t chant, so yeah.

Devotee: Inthe spiritual world would be able to do things like eat good prasādam?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Devotee: I just want to make sure.

Giriraj Swami: Once Srila Prabhupada said, “I want to go to Krishna in the spiritual world just to eat the kachoris.”

Any other, yes yes.

Devotee: You mentioned about the Gosvamis in the mood of separation, I mean in your case you served Srila Prabhupada so intimately in his physical presence and it has been so many years since Srila Prabhupada’s departure. And you mentioned that you could also interpret the dust as actually taking the instructions of the spiritual master on the head. And this may be a very personal question, after all these years in Prabhupada’s physical absence, in your experience has following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions very closely and very sincerely sometimes you feel, actually, I’m actually more closer to Srila Prabhupada than when he was physically present? Doyou sometimes have that realization?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t make that comparison but we definitely do feel his presence by following his instructions, and that’s the method. What Srila Prabhupada wrote in his dedication to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dedicated to his spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, “He lives forever by his divine instructions and the follower lives with him.” So yeah.

Devotee: Maharaja,how we define or determine what is causeless mercy or something that is actually belongs to you because you worked previously to be part of that? So, for example when we say yeah, we say that he met the devotees or will become a devotee by God’s mercy or things like that. How can we say that it’s actually one or the other?

Giriraj Swami: It is mercy. How could we say that we deserve it or earned it? On what basis? So, it is mercy.

Devotee: Well, I was asking that because you said that the only way to, there is no coincidence so only by serving, you mentioned it just a few minutes ago. We are in a position just because it was meant to be.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there is a very important verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

CC Madhya 19.151

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

COMMENT

That the living entities are wandering through so many universes but some fortunate living entity by the mercy of guru and Krishna gets the seed of devotional service. It says by the mercy of Krishna one gets guru and by the mercy of guru one gets Krishna.

guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

So brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān, bhāgyavān means fortunate. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde, prasāde means mercy.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.

Devotee: Rsabdeva had a question.

Giriraj Swami: Well someone behind you did too and I recognized him. And then we’ll take Rsabdeva.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. You had the opportunity to associate with Srila Prabhupada.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Canyou enlighten us with one of your experiences that will help us go more into devotional service? That inspired you being with Srila Prabhupada.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I mean my first meeting with him changed my life. I was, well to begin I was searching for perfect happiness, this goes back to high school and college, and then I understood that perfect happiness was not possible materially, it was possible only spiritually. And then reading different books I understood that to progress spiritually one needed a guru. So then my focus became to find my guru and whenever I heard of a guru anywhere within a thousand miles I would go, but I was not satisfied with any of them. I mean if we had more time I could go through the whole list and what it was about each one that convinced me that he is not my perfect master, he is not my perfect master. And after so many disappointments I almost lost hope that I would ever find my perfect master.

So one day I noticed at my own university, I mean I was going everywhere searching, but at my own university there was a poster with a picture of Srila Prabhupada and, “Lecture on Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Schwartz Auditorium, seven p.m.” But I was already so discouraged that I didn’t take it seriously.

So that night I had some friends over to my apartment near the university for dinner, I was already a vegetarian so it was pasta and salad, whatever. And then we were going to go to a movie at Harvard Square. So, but something in my heart was telling me, “You have to go to this lecture.” So I told my friends, they were all, “Come on, we are going to the movie.” Okay, I was say an obliging type of person, I didn’t want to upset them. But then a minute or two later it came in my heart again, some voice was impelling me, “You must go.” So I said, I brought it up again, again they objected. Okay, all right. But again it came very strong in my heart. And my girlfriend, “Why can’t you be like normal people? Why do you always have to be chasing after these swamis and yogis?” And she was raising her voice and I raised my voice, and I said, “Okay, this will be the last one I ever go to.” That was my concession.

So we got there, but because of all the arguing and everything we were late. But Srila Prabhupada was on the stage and the devotees were leading kirtan and it was, the sound was, the auditorium it had bare brick walls inside, sort of tastefully done and the sound was reverberating off the walls. And students were getting up from the audience and climbing up onto the stage and joining the dancing. So I was sitting there and I had friends on both sides of me and I thought, “If I go up there, it’s going to be too much for them.” But I stood up, I stood up in place and I was sort of swaying back and forth.

And afterwards, probably Satsvarupa announced, “If any one’s going to Boston or Harvard Square, they should meet the devotees in the lobby, because we need a ride.” Because the devotees didn’t have a car back then. I had a Station Wagon, so I went to the lobby and the first devotee I met was named Baradraja, he has a son named Gaura Vani, he is a famous kirtan leader, although Baradraja himself is a very good kirtan leader. And Baradraja, I mean I haven’t told you the whole story but all the different places I went, the students were quite disappointing but then I would say, “Anyway, they are just the students, we need the master.” But the masters also, they weren’t my perfect master whom I was searching.

And Baradraja, he was so high on Krishna consciousness, he just started saying, “In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna showed Arjuna His universal form and it was more brilliant than thousands and millions of suns, and then Arjuna asked to see His four-handed form and then Krishna showed His four-handed form, then he asked to see His original two-handed form,” it was just going on like that. I thought “Wow,” I mean it’s so different because all the other ones, the students, they were not very impressive, but he was.

So, I said, “I’m driving to Harvard Square.” Because that was sort of the compromise, that we would, that we’d go to the program on campus, and then we’d go to the late show. So all the devotees piled into my Station Wagon and in the front was a lady devotee named Jahnava, who’s in Alachua now, and in the back compartment was my best friend Gary and Satsvarupa, and then more devotees just piled in.

So in the back, I overheard my friend Gary arguing with Satsvarupa, and Gary, because we were I guess yeah influenced by Buddhism and impersonalism, so he was saying, talking about the “void” and Satsvarupa was saying, “There is no “void” in the creation of God.” And I was overhearing them and then I said something that I’d read in a zen book, that it’s not void and it’s not not void but to give it a name we call it the “void.” So that brilliant pronouncement had no effect whatsoever and they just went on with their discussion.

So,then I started asking questions to this young lady Jahnava, and I asked about Yogananda because I read a book called “Autobiography of a Yogi,” and she said, “Have you ever been to his ashram? They actually have a little self-realization fellowship across from the street from our temple and at his ashram, he calls Gandhi a worker for world peace. Gandhi wasn’t a worker for world peace, he wanted to get the British out of India. Yogananda doesn’t even know who Gandhi is.” And then she said that, “He is like a shopkeeper, he wants Krishna? He is got Krishna. If he wants Ganesha, he’ has got Ganesha. Hewants Durga? He has got Durga. Hewants bhakti? He has got bhakti. He wants jnana, he has got jnana.” So, she really dismissed him in a very convincing way.

So, then I asked about Zen because I’ve been reading about it, I went to, that was one of the places I went, to Philip Kapleau’s Zen center in Rochester, New York. And she said, “It’s like you are looking at images on a movie screen, they actually have no reality and if you draw your consciousness back from the movie screen there is light and if you keep going, following the light back there is, it comes to a point but then beyond the point is a light bulb and a machine and a person behind the machine.” I thought, “Wow this is amazing, this is a better explanation of Zen than I’d heard from anyone in the Zen tradition and it went beyond it.” So, she spoke with such authority but then I thought, she is just a young girl, this can’t be coming from her, it must be coming from her master.

So, we got to Harvard Square and I let the devotees out. And then I realized I don’t know where they are going, I don’t know where their temple is, I don’t know how I’ll ever get in touch with them. SoI jumped out of the car and I was chasing after the devotees, and the devotee I got to first was I guess walking the slowest, was named Patita Pavan, and he said, “You see all these people? They are just. . .”

What do you call people who walk in their sleep? Sleepwalkers.

“They are just sleepwalkers, they don’t know who they are or where they are going.” Every devotee is on such a high level, I was just fascinated.

Then suddenly I heard, it penetrated my consciousness, a lot of honking of horns—- because I left my car in the roundabout and all the traffic was backed up. So I said, “I want to come to meet the Swami please.” So they gave me the address, then I went the next night and that was the turning point. So Srila Prabhupada gave a lecture and I didn’t understand all of it because well, I wasn’t familiar with the subject and also his accent was a little thick. But he did quote, “Out of many thousands of persons one will seek perfection.” Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.

I thought, “That’s me, he is talking about me.”

Sothen at the end, he asked for questions and I asked my burning question, and I said, “There are so many swamis and yogis and each one advocates a different method of self-realization and each one says that his is best, so how do I know which is actually best?” And he replied so intelligently, “What is your goal? Doyou want to become God or do you want to serve God?” Because I was asking what’s the best means but he was asking well, what’s your goal? Because the means will fit the end. And then he said, “If you want to become God that means you are not God now. And how can not God become God?” He said, “God is God, He is always God, He doesn’t have to become God by yoga or meditation.” And then he said, “Krishna’s God when He is playing on the lap of Mother Yasoda, He is God when He is speaking the Bhagavad-gītā on the battlefield, He is always God, He doesn’t have to become God.” And then he said, “You can become godly but you cannot become God.” And he said, “If you sow the seed of service to God and water it with chanting, God will help you, He’ll provide all the favorable conditions to make it grow. But if you want to become God, God won’t help you because why should God help the competition?”

So, yeah, so yes, you can’t become God, but you can become godly.

So, thenhe said, “So, do you want to serve God or do you want to become God?” So at that point I felt that Srila Prabhupada was, he was seeing straight through me, through the walls of the temple, down the roads to my apartment, into my bathroom, to the wall of my bathroom where I had written in my own ornate lettering, in different colors, “You are God.” And I just felt he knows everything.

So, hesaid, “So, you want to serve God or you want to become God?” So, I knew I couldn’t cheat him but I also didn’t want to admit that I wanted to become God, so I said, “I want to serve God but actually I wanted to become God,” then he said, “Yes.”

So then I knew I met my perfect master, and I bowed down my head and surrendered. And I kept it down for a long time, partly in surrender, I think a lot, mainly surrender but partly because I thought I was afraid to look up, because I thought everyone in the room would be looking at me or glaring at me, “He wanted to become God.” So I didn’t want to face that.

So, but then the devotees from the sounds I could understand they were serving plates of prasāda and I sensed the atmosphere in the temple, it was light and so I got up, nobody was glaring at me or anything. And then I bit into the first item, I think it was a pakora, it was an explosion of taste I never. . . it wasn’t just Indian food but it was prasāda, so it was fantastic, I mean everything was, everything about the whole experience was wonderful, including the prasāda. So, then I found my perfect master and everything was perfect.

But then he was leaving, I didn’t know he was going to leave, I didn’t know there were other temples and he was going to be traveling. So,yeah, so they, one day the devotee said, “Srila Prabhupada is leaving, do you want to come to the airport?” I said yes. So,I went to the airport and at the airport, the devotees, a lot of the devotees, most of the devotees were crying and so I asked one of the lady devotees named Arundhati, “Why are they crying?” And she said that Srila Prabhupada said that in the absolute world there is no difference between meeting and separation, both are occasions of ecstasy. So that sounded good but still, I was wondering whether it was actually practical, I mean I knew they were crying because of the impending separation and that was quite moving that they were so attached to him, to Srila Prabhupada.

So, yeah, I had that question and then one day when we were chanting in the streets, it was actually in front of a subway station I think the Copley Square station, I felt Srila Prabhupada’s presence descend, I mean it was very tangible, palpable. And then I understood that yes, even in physical separation there can be a spiritual meeting.

Sowhat was your question?

Devotee: Yeah, so basically that experience that you had.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that was it.

Devotee: That enlightened you basically, how was that?

Giriraj Swami: That was it, that was it.

Devotee: Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Rsabdeva.

Devotee: I will be brief, at the beginning about receiving the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee on his head, certainly a dead body, well it’s kind of scary-sounding, to me at least. And so at the beginning, it was a little creepy sounding to me but by the end and everything that you’d explained to me it made me think. Well maybe all of us, since you and so many of your godbrothers have come through here, through the front door and we’ve all come through the front door, by getting the dust of the pure devotee by coming in here like this.

Giriraj Swami: Isthere a question?

Devotee: Where did we get this dust?

Giriraj Swami: I agree with the principle but I don’t agree with the application.

Devotee: Is there an application that could work with that? Just to cover our faces?

Giriraj Swami: Well, in the sense of taking the instructions, yes, you can take the instructions and follow them. Yes.

Devotee: A shortquestion, profound spiritual question, what happened to your girlfriend? Yes,what happened to your girlfriend? Did you get [Unintelligible 01:48:39]?

Giriraj Swami: While we were inthe Boston area and she went to, I don’t know exactly who it was or how she traced him? But she went to a professor at Harvard University and told him about me and what had happened and the professor told her, “He is the one with the problem, not you.” So, well that was basically the end, yeah, I mean occasionally, I haven’t done it for a long time, but I pray for her.

Any other questions or comments?