Finding a Perfect Master

Giriraj Swami: I will speak about my first meeting with Srila Prabhupada that was already mentioned in brief in Radha Caran Prabhu’s introduction. So, I guess I’ll go back to high school, when I was in high school.

So, in high school I had the idea that I wanted to find perfect happiness and after some time I understood that perfect happiness could not be achieved materially but only spiritually. And then by further reading I came to understand that I could not pursue a spiritual path without a guru and then my quest became to find my guru.

By now I was in college, in my senior year and yeah, whenever I heard that there was a guru anywhere nearby, I would go to see him or hear him; I met many. I was a psychology major, and the chairman of the department was named Abraham Maslow, he and one other professor I had, James Clay, they were very progressive and they invited a lot of gurus to the University to speak.

So, one of the gurus who came to the campus was Swami Satchidananda. So I went to his lecture which was given in the auditorium of the psychology department and he was speaking about how by yoga you could control your involuntary muscles and specifically he was speaking about the intestines. So, by yoga you can command transverse colon advance, and then the stuff moves along, yeah, then ascending colon advance, yeah, then transverse colon advance, then descending colon advance and then rectum release. So, I wasn’t sure if he was my perfect master, it sounded interesting, but I felt I needed more information to decide if he was my perfect master.

So, I told my professor, Clay, who had invited him that I wanted to ride with him to the airport. Swami Satchidananda was from New York and he had flown up to Boston but my professor said that his car is already full but some of his disciples are going to the airport and I could ride with them. So, in the car his disciples were talking about all the types of food they missed since coming to the ashram. I thought, “This is odd, they’ve just heard their guru speak and all they are talking about is the foods they are missing since they joined the ashram.” I don’t remember everything, but I know they mentioned that they missed pizza. So I thought, “Anyway, they are just the students, let me meet the master.”

So, Swami Satchidananda, he was really the picture of Indian spirituality, he had long flowing hair and a twinkle in his eyes and he looked like the picture of a beatific Indian Swami. At the airport he embraced an attractive young lady, I guess a disciple, very tightly and warmly and for longer than I thought was necessary, well it wasn’t necessary at all actually. So I thought, “He is not my perfect master.”

So then I had been reading books about Zen Buddhism, one of the books was called “The three pillars of Zen,” the author was Philip Kapleau. So, I read an advertisement that he was holding a three-day retreat at his ashram in Rochester, New York. And he was supposed to be a certified enlightened Zen master who was certified by another certified enlightened Zen master from Japan. So, I got to the ashram and when I rang the bell some of the students answered the door, they seemed pretty dull and morose. But again I thought, “They are just the students, we can’t judge just from the students.”

So, the retreat began with an exercise, we all had to sit in a room facing the wall, on all sides there were people facing the wall. And he gave us a koan, that means a riddle, on which to meditate, a typical koan is; “I’ve heard the sound of two hands clapping, what is the sound of one hand clapping?” So we had to sit with our back straight, very erect, facing the wall and he would come around with a stick and if he thought that anyone was being inattentive or slack, he would sort of hit them on the shoulder with the stick. I personally was not hit with the stick but it seemed that there was a lot of fear involved which didn’t appeal to me.

So then came the lunch break and in the dining hall there were a lot of tables and benches sort of very basic wood tables and benches. So I sat at the table with the master, so one of the students was complaining to him that he had become angry some other time.

Translator: The master had become angry or the student had become angry?

Giriraj Swami: No, the student was complaining to the master that the master had become angry. So, the master replied, “That’s true, I lost my temper, I shouldn’t have done that.” So, I thought that didn’t seem like my perfect master, but then again, I had read that the enlightened Zen practitioners appear to be ordinary so I thought, “Well maybe this is just that, he just appears to be ordinary.”

And then later, that Zen master came to MIT in Boston, he was invited by Houston Smith who was sort of an authority in comparative religion. And there someone in the audience asked him about Vedanta, and the master Philip Kapleau replied, “I have enough trouble keeping up with Zen, don’t ask me about Vedanta.” I thought, “He is not my perfect master.”

So, another one who Professor Clay invited to the university, was J. Krishnamurti.

No, no, no, the Professor invited J. Krishnamurti, who was supposed to be something like a guru.

Translator: A guru, okay.

Giriraj Swami: So yeah, he was there for the whole day and the room was packed, it wasn’t the auditorium but they gave him a room and it was packed. And during the intermission I told my Professor, who had invited Mr. Krishnamurti, that I wanted to meet with him. So my Professor asked, “Why do you want to meet him?” I said, “Well I want to see if maybe he is my guru,” and my Professor replied, “Oh, he doesn’t accept disciples, he doesn’t even touch money.” So, I thought, “If he has knowledge and he can help people, then why should he refuse to become their teacher? Just for the sake of some show of renunciation?” I thought, “He is not my perfect master.”

So there were many like that who I encountered in my search. For the sake of time, I will move along.

So, after trying so many times to find my guru and not finding him and there were many more who I haven’t mentioned. I was becoming hopeless, I thought, “I’m not going to find my perfect master, I don’t think I’m going to find him.”

Yeah, I had heard that actually you don’t choose your guru, your guru is already there, you just have to find him. And I even had a vague mental impression of what he looked like and he didn’t have hair and all the other gurus, Indian gurus, had lots of hair. I thought, “This is hopeless.” Yeah, I mean I did go to one presentation of transcendental meditation, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, he also had long hair.

So one night, so this was in my senior year, near the end of my senior year. I had an apartment off campus, near the campus, and I had invited some few close friends over for dinner. I was already vegetarian by then so we had a vegetable soup and pasta and salad. And then after dinner we were going to see a movie at Harvard Square. In those days they had art films where they showed foreign films, and so we are going to see an art film you could say from Japan. Now, during the day on campus I had seen posters advertising; A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Schwartz auditorium, seven p.m. The subject was “Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.”

But I didn’t pay much attention because I was already hopeless, but something in my heart was telling me, “You have to go.” So, I told my friends, “I think before we go to the movie, I want to attend this lecture,” they got all upset.  “We agreed we are going to go to the movie,” they said. So, I was a sort of docile compliant type, I didn’t want to displease  anyone so yeah, I wanted to go along with them, okay. But then again something in my heart was compelling me, “You must go.” So, yeah, I tried to go along with them and then again, it was overwhelmingly powerful in my heart, “You must go.”

So, I had a lady friend at that time, and she was very disturbed, agitated, so she raised her voice and she said, “Why can’t you be like a normal person? Why do you always have to be chasing after these swamis and yogis?” So, she was raising her voice and I also raised my voice, but my underlying mood was not to disappoint her or the others. So I said, “Okay, this will be the last one I ever go to.”

So, I went but because of all the argument and discussion we reached late, so they were doing the last kirtan, Satsvarupa was leading and Srila Prabhupada was on the stage and really, I couldn’t focus my eyes on him, because there was some effulgence coming from him. And one by one the students from the audience were getting out of their seats and climbing up on the stage and joining the dancing on the stage. I also felt like going up and dancing, but I looked at my friends on both sides of me and I thought, “This would be too much for them,” so I just stood up in my place and was sort of swaying to the music.

So, after the kirtan, Satsvarupa who was married at the time, Satsvarupa Prabhu announced that if any devotees are driving to Boston or Harvard Square, they, excuse me, if anyone in the audience is driving to Boston or Harvard Square, they should meet the devotees in the lobby because the devotees needed a lift, they didn’t own any motor vehicle then. So I had my red Rambler station wagon, it was a high school graduation present from my father and it could hold a good number of people. So I went out to offer to drive them.

So yes, I went out to the lobby, the foyer, and the first devotee I met was named Baradraja.

Yeah. He later married Rukmini and became the father of the famous kirtan leader Gauravani. So, Baradraja, he was completely high on Krishna consciousness, just out of nowhere he started speaking about the Eleventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, how Krishna revealed His universal form to Arjuna and He was more brilliant than thousands and millions of suns and Arjuna was trembling.

Translator: Excuse me, Maharaja, this was on the way back in the ride?

Giriraj Swami: No, no, in the lobby.

Translator: In the lobby. Okay.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah and then Arjuna asked to see His four armed form and then His original two handed form.

So, I didn’t think of it at the time but speaking with you all now, I’m seeing the difference between Prabhupada’s disciples and the students of the other gurus, because the consciousness of Prabhupada’s disciples was so high.

So, all the devotees piled into the car, so I was in the front seat with a lady devotee named Jahanava and my lady friend. And then in the very back compartment was my best friend Gary and Satsvarupa and some others. Yeah and then there is another seat in between filled with devotees.

So, I asked Jahnava about the different paths that I was exploring, so I mentioned Yogananda who had written a book called “Autobiography of a Yogi,” so she said, “Have you ever been to his center in California? He is like a shopkeeper, whatever you want, he keeps in stock. You want Krishna? You can get Krishna. You want Ganesh, you can get Ganesh. You want Durga, you can get Durga. You want bhakti? You can get bhakti. You want yoga? You can get yoga. You want jnana? You can get jnana. And he has a monument for Mahatma Gandhi in which he calls Mahatma Gandhi a worker for world peace. Jahnava said, “He wasn’t a worker for world peace, he was working to drive the British out of India so India could get independence. Yogananda doesn’t even know who Mahatma Gandhi is.” All right, so no Yogananda, that’s clear.

So, then I asked about Zen Buddhism and in their philosophy the ultimate goal is void, nirvana, void, zero. So she said that, “This world is like a movie being projected on a screen, it’s not substantial and if you pull your attention away from the screen you’ll see there is a beam of light and that beam of light will come to a point but behind that point is a projector and there is a person who is running the projector.” And I thought, “This is the best explanation of Zen I’ve ever heard, but it goes way beyond Zen.”

So, I thought all of her answers were perfect and she was speaking with so much authority, but I knew it couldn’t be coming from her, she was just a young girl, it had to be coming from her guru. So, I let the devotees down at Harvard Square and then the next day I went to the temple and after Srila Prabhupada’s talk, yeah one thing in his talk, I mean I couldn’t understand that much because of his accent and also because the philosophy was very new to me, it was very different. But one thing he said was that out of many thousands of people, one will seek perfection.

Translator: I’ve been trying to look for the word perfect or perfection in my mind for so long but I’m not getting the correct word for perfect or perfection. There is a word, it will come but it’s not coming right now.

Giriraj Swami: I thought, “That’s me, he is talking about me, I’m one of those thousands who’s seeking perfection and I’m one of the ones out of thousands who’s seeking perfection.”

So at the end of his talk he asked for questions and I raised my hand, I asked the question that was burning in my heart, that, “There are so many swamis and yogis and each one says that his method is the best and they are all different, so how do I know which is actually best?” And Srila Prabhupada replied very intelligently, with his own question. His question was, “What is your goal?” Because I was asking what’s the best means but first you have to determine what the end is, then you can decide what is the best means to reach that end. He said, “Do you want to serve God or do you want to become God?”

Actually, at the time as you’ll find out, I wanted to become God, unfortunately.

He said, “What is your goal? Do you want to serve God or do you want to become God? If you want to become God that means you are not God now, and how cannot God become God? God is God, He is always God. He doesn’t have to become God by yoga and meditation. He is God when He is playing on the lap of Mother Yasoda, He is God when He is in His palace in Dwarka, He is God when He is speaking the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, He is substantially God.” He said, “If you want to serve God and you plant the seed of service to God then water it with chanting, then God will provide the sunlight and all the favorable elements to make it flourish. God is in your heart and He is ready to help you if you want to serve Him. But if you want to become God, why should God help the competition? You can become godly but you cannot become God.”

Now, at that time I felt that Srila Prabhupada knew everything about me, that he was seeing right through me, through the walls of the temple, down the roads to my apartment, he was seeing into my apartment, into my bathroom, to a sign that I had written in very elaborate colorful letters in my own hand, the sign saying, “You are God.” Yeah, I had to keep the sign there to remind me in case I forgot. So, I felt Srila Prabhupada was looking right at this sign and then he asked me, “So, what do you think? You want to serve God or you want to become God?” I said, “I want to serve God.” But I knew I couldn’t cheat Srila Prabhupada, so then I said, “But actually I wanted to become God.” And Prabhupada said, “Yes.”

So, then I knew I found my perfect master.

So, I bowed down as I had seen the devotees, I put my head on the floor in surrender, I surrendered to Srila Prabhupada. So, many things happened in that first, even that first meeting, I haven’t told everything and then in that week or more than a week, ten days, when Srila Prabhupada was in Boston. But because of the time factor I think I’ll just add one point.

So after about two weeks Srila Prabhupada was going to leave Boston. I didn’t know that he would leave, all I knew was that he was in Boston. So all the devotees went to the airport to see him off and many of the devotees were crying, they were weeping and up until then I thought everything about Krishna consciousness was perfect. I thought, “This may be the one defect.” So, I asked one lady devotee named Arundhati, who was very helpful to me, and she said that Srila Prabhupada had told them that, “Krishna consciousness is absolute, and meeting and separation are the same, both are occasions of ecstasy.” So it sounded like a perfect answer but I wasn’t sure how practical it was. But a few days later when we were chanting in the street, I felt Srila Prabhupada’s presence descend upon me, it was so tangible, so palpable, so real. And I thought, “Yes, everything about Krishna consciousness is perfect.”

Hare Krishna.

So I will end this part of the presentation now, but would any of you like to offer any comments or ask any questions? But first, most important, I forgot. Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!.

Okay now, if any questions or comments you can raise your hand or, there is one. Oh my. So who’s going to ask? Who’s going to speak first?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Please accept my humble obeisances. Guru Maharaja, as you said that when you met Srila Prabhupada and then you had and you felt when he was giving this talk, you also felt that there was a direct message to you which was saying that you are the perfect out of those thousand people. So, I just want you to comment on that and I say that, yes definitely with perfect you are perfect among those thousand people and many more people. And definitely as everyone, as you also felt that you have met your perfect master, similarly I do feel the same about you. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: That was a little unexpected but thank you. I appreciate the sentiment, thank you. Hare Krishna.

Translator: Guru Maharaja, I just need some clarification, am I expected to, when the question gets over if it is in English, do I need to translate? So, Yes, Guru Maharaja, I was just inquiring whether I’m supposed to translate the question answers if it is asked in English, so he said yes, so from next question I will do it.

Giriraj Swami: So, Mukunda Priya raised his hand.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Daṇḍavat-praṇāmās.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Can you hear me?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, am I audible?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, now you are.

Devotee: Maharaja, I just want to say thank you very much, it was so wonderful to hear from your lotus mouth and the way you actually made this story is just, we can visualize it very much.

Giriraj Swami: Haribol, yes.

Devotee: Could you hear, Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Well you said the way I narrated the story you could visualize it, but then after that we couldn’t hear you.

Devotee: I want to say that your narration, actually I don’t have any question, actually I want to say this gave me many answers and I want you to please speak some more [Unintelligible 01:14:41].

Giriraj Swami: Speak some more what?

Devotee: More sessions.

Devotee: Questions.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, okay, okay. Well that was [Unintelligible 01:15:27]. Okay.

Devotee: Actually, Guru Maharaja, can I just mention here that I am so happy with the lockdown and I am so happy with this Corona, virus because it is giving us so much nectar and your association which we normally wouldn’t have got.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I’m getting yours too, I’m happy with it.

Translator: Mukunda Priya Prabhu is thanking you Guru Maharaja, for your wonderful narration about Srila Prabhupada, how you met and it was like a film going in front of our eyes.

Giriraj Swami: Nice. Thank you.

Translator: So, Guru Maharaja, his question is that you had a quest in life for a perfect guru and you were really searching. But he is saying that we didn’t have, don’t have really that, we didn’t have that search, we didn’t have that kind of a quest in us. But still we have got that good fortune, how it has come to us?

Giriraj Swami: That’s Prabhupada’s mercy.

Translator: Guru Maharaja, he is saying that like the other Mataji said, they are so enlivened by your talk and narration, but they want you to come more often on Zoom and give your spiritual association to this.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, all right, you have to pray that the Coronavirus lasts a long time. That was just a joke.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, not only during this lockdown, also now, since this has become a new technique to get communication through Zoom and Facebook also, particularly Zoom. So on the other days also we can taken such a meeting and get in there.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah that’s true, that’s true, that’s correct, yes, thank you.

Devotee: At least once a month we can, that way you will be fully occupied and we can get some dose of association.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, a pleasure, it’s a pleasure.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. My humbles obeisances unto your lotus feet. Maharaja, I’m very deeply moved by your narration of seeking a guru. And when you mention that [story], it brought tears to my eyes. Guru Maharaja, I have a question for you. . .

Translator: Is that Meera Mataji?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, it is.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, you mentioned that there is a person who’s screening this movie and there is a screen and there is light, then just, so there were four components at least to that entire example. I wanted to understand how that example really relates to our spiritual quest and who’s playing those roles? In our quest and how basically that example, how can I think of that example and understand that you [Unintelligible 01:22:22]?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, well I think that the machine that I understand, the machine is the, is material nature and behind material nature is a person and that’s Krishna. And the movie is real but it’s temporary, we are not like Mayavadis who say that the world is illusion, that it doesn’t exist. We say that it does exist, but it’s temporary but it’s Krishna’s energy and so it should be used in Krishna’s service. And something that’s material when it’s used in Krishna’s service it becomes spiritual.

Say food, we take material ingredients, say milk and sugar, and we make rasagullā. If you attend enough of my talks, you’ll find out I’m very fond of rasagullās. And so those are material items but when you offer it to Krishna it becomes prasāda, it becomes spiritual.

So, nothing is really material, it’s all Krishna’s energy, so ultimately, it’s spiritual. And when we use so-called material things in Krishna’s service then they become spiritualized. So yeah, like we are using computers which are material but when we use it for satsaṅga then it becomes part of our spiritual paraphernalia. So we don’t reject it. Yeah, that’s stated by Rupa Gosvami, “We don’t reject material things that can be used in Krishna’s service.”

Devotee: Thank you very much, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, thank you. Hare Krishna.

Meera Mishra is the sister of Chaitanya Priya. Chaitanya Mishra who is initiated as Chaitanya Priya, so that’s younger sister but she is progressing very rapidly, very rapidly, by leaps and bounds.

Devotee: She has very strong association, Guru Maharaja. [Unintelligible 01:25:47].

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: And sometimes she comes to my Sunday class also with them. She is getting good association and will progress.

Giriraj Swami: And good association she is getting in Mumbai.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, Hare Krishna. Can I be heard?.

Giriraj Swami: We hear you.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Translator: So, Guru Maharaja, I think you understood most of it.

Giriraj Swami: No, I think it was okay, she translated at the end, I caught more of it.

Devotee: She is a disciple of Jayapataka Maharaj.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, nice.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:27:41].

Giriraj Swami: Wonderful, thank you.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:27:50].

Giriraj Swami: Gauranga Priya.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. I heard that Your Holiness is very strict and very particular but here I am finding that Your Holiness is in a very jolly mood and very smiling and very sweet. So, I am very happy to see you. Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Gauranga Priya ?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, daṇḍavat praṇāmas.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Guru Maharaja.

Translator: He is saying that Lord Rama had fourteen years exile, and they had got your darshan after fifteen years, Maharaja. He is saying that every year we kept hearing Maharaja is coming to India and he may come to Surat and get your association. But he kept on going like that and we never got your association and darshan in person, but now because of the corona at least we are getting your darshan virtually through this Zoom.

Giriraj Swami: Jaya, Thank you.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Please accept my humble obeisances, All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Maharaja, we have known that when Srila Prabhupada left and you were all so close to Srila Prabhupada, what where you going through and how exactly did you all move forward?.

Giriraj Swami: Well after he left, I came across a description in the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about, it’s the story of a husband and wife who take vanaprastha and they go into the forest and then the husband dies leaving the wife alone. And in this metaphor the husband is the spiritual master and the wife is the disciple, but the general rule is that as Srila Prabhupada. . . Oh, by the way, do we need to stop for translation?

Translator: Guru Maharaja, he asked the question in English, so he will definitely understand.

Giriraj Swami: It’ll save time, it’ll definitely save time. Okay, good, good.

So, in Srila Prabhupada’s dedication to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam he says that it’s dedicated to his spiritual master, he lives forever by his divine instructions and the follower lives with him. So, Srila Prabhupada taught us throughout, that there are two kinds of association—vāṇī, by words, and vapuḥ, physical association. And that the physical association may or may not be there, but that the vāṇī, vāṇī sevā, service to the instructions, that is always there. And so that’s what we do, we serve the instructions and by serving the instructions we feel the presence of the spiritual master.

So yeah, there are many, Srila Prabhupada has given many instructions about separation. Yeah one, in one letter he wrote, “Be happy in separation.” And yeah, that the, by following the instructions the feelings of separation will transform into transcendental bliss. And like he said of his spiritual master, he always feels that his spiritual master is with him, he is always looking over his shoulder. So yeah, that’s how we go on. Does that answer your question?

So it says three participants raise hand.

Devotee: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Maharaja, I have a question. You said that we already have a guru chosen for us and all we need to do is come in contact with them.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: So, is it the same if we are already in ISKCON and if he has been, there are many gurus in this country to choose from, so how can we come in contact with all of them?

Giriraj Swami: You only need to find one who inspires your faith and your desire to serve. And besides dīkṣā-guru, of course Srila Prabhupada said he was both our dīkṣā-guru and śikṣā-guru. But besides your dīkṣā-guru, you know what dīkṣā-guru is? And śikṣā-guru?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, so you can have only one dīkṣā-guru, but you can have more than one śikṣā-guru. And if you find someone whose instructions inspire you who you didn’t meet at the time that you took initiation you can still take inspiration from that person as a śikṣā-guru.

Devotee: Okay, Maharaja, thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.