Srila Prabhupada Personifies Devotee Care

Gauranga dasa: Hare Krishna. We welcome all the devotees who have joined for this weekly care, weekly conversations, Vaishnava sevā. We are very honored to have with us after His Holiness Jayapataka Swami Maharaja, His Holiness Radhanath Swami Maharaja, His Holiness Devamrita Swami Maharaja, we have this week His Holiness Giriraj Swami Maharaja. Welcome His Holiness Giriraj Swami Maharaja who is one of the senior most Prabhupada’s disciples who was very active of the GBC, was one of the founders of ISKCON India, especially the Juhu temple, and he has spent many, many years serving Srila Prabhupada very closely, and has hundreds of remembrances of Srila Prabhupada, and he is just about to publish his book about the Juhu ISKCON temple. 

And so today our topic is Srila Prabhupada as an embodiment of devotee care. So, thank you, Maharaja, for joining us this evening, your morning. I would like to begin by asking a question to you, in your experiences with Srila Prabhupada over the years in that period, could you share any anecdote with Srila Prabhupada or exchanges where Srila Prabhupada demonstrated care for the body or physical care/concern for the devotees’ health or something like that?

Giriraj Swami: There are a number of instances, some involving me and some involving others. One notable one involved Yamuna devi and I thought it would be nice to read her description because it was very striking. This was after the first Delhi pandal and she writes that she was exhausted and she fell sick. So she was staying at Dalmia Bhavan:

“. . . and it was a very crowded situation—perhaps ten to fifteen of us in one room—and the only place free was the bottom shelf in one of the walk-in closets. We had all of our paraphernalia piled up, and I was in a sleeping bag down on the bottom shelf. Srila Prabhupada noticed I was missing, and I was later told that he had inquired many times where I was. 

“One day I became aware of the door being opened, and I turned to see Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet walking into that closet room. . . He placed his hand on my head and inquired, ‘Yamuna? How are you doing?’ I said, ‘I am always thinking of you, Srila Prabhupada.’ And I explained my symptoms, and he said, ‘I think this is jaundice. . . Now I will take charge of your recovery. You will never get well in these conditions on the floor.’

“Srila Prabhupada had a hospital bed brought in for me and moved me into a room right next to his, with floor-to-ceiling windows, neem trees outside, and a fan. . .. and he came in every day to check on my progress. 

“He also called in an Ayurvedic doctor and gave me a diet for jaundice.” 

And then she describes the diet he put her on. It involved something called petha, “which was a wax gourd or a white kind of pumpkin taken raw, covered in a thick layer of caramelized sugar which was ghastly for me. Srila Prabhupada said, ‘This is your medicine. You have to eat it every day; and you also have to drink sugarcane juice.’ The first I tasted petha it was like the most bitter horrible thing because of my jaundice. Srila Prabhupada would personally stand and watch me eat the petha. And he would smile.”

So that was an example from hers. I have a small example of mine. We were in Juhu and I used to go to the city all day long and come back at night and report to Srila Prabhupada. So one evening I came to Prabhupada’s room after a long day, and as usual I hadn’t taken any prasāda from the morning until the evening. Prabhupada looked at me and asked, “How are you feeling?” I then noticed how weak and sick I was. I replied, “Well, frankly speaking, Srila Prabhupada, I feel a little tired.” 

Srila Prabhupada immediately ordered grapes for me from his own kitchen. He said grapes were very good for strength and energy. And then he insisted I eat the grapes in his presence. Soon he asked if I was feeling stronger. And yes, I was. Finally he concluded, “To work very hard for Krishna for two days, and then to recuperate for three days—that is not a very good proposal.”

Gauranga dasa: Thank you, Maharaja, for sharing these beautiful stories about Srila Prabhupada’s care and concern and his demonstrating so much personal interest in helping devotees remain physically fit.

Of course, as you know, that the temples have been created specifically for giving spiritual nourishment, but at times it may also happen that one does not understand the importance of what we are receiving, and one may become complacent about it specifically with respect to spiritual care. Like, for example, the chanting, the study of books, attending the programs. 

Could you share any of your memories with Srila Prabhupada emphasizing on spiritual care. “Physician, heal yourself first.” That means as devotees we should be spiritually nourished first and then we can help others.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. He was constantly instructing us on the importance of sadhana. Of course he set the example under ordinary circumstances, but he also set the example under extraordinary circumstances. 

One example was at the Khumba-mela in 1971. We were living in tents and Srila Prabhupada was also living in a tent, maybe a little bigger and a little furnished and probably with a heater. But it was so cold that we preferred to stay on our sleeping bags than to come out and face that biting cold air. Consequently, we were missing maṅgala-ārati. And Srila Prabhupada, to encourage us to attend maṅgala-ārati, he came out of his tent and bathed. . . there were pumps, hand pumps that came out with cold water—that is what we had to bath with—so Srila Prabhupada came out into that common area and he was taking cold bath in that freezing water despite his age and frail health. And when we heard that Srila Prabhupada was doing that, we had to get out of our sleeping bags and come out and do what he was showing by his example. We had to do so, so that we could be there for maṅgala-ārati and the morning program in the pandal.

So he really went out of his way to encourage us to attend the morning program. Just a small aside, so in the pandal, as I said, it was very cold, and it could be windy too. And Nanda Kumar Prabhu was the pujari and the wind kept on blowing out the ghee lamp and he was really struggling with it. Finally, Srila Prabhupada came up to help him but even then the ghee lamp kept getting blown out and Srila Prabhupada through the microphone, he said, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā, reminding us that although all the elements of the morning program were important, but ultimately hari-nāma is everything. Even if we have to struggle with the other elements and they don’t work out, but we always have the holy name. Hare Krishna.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you, Maharaja. Just related to this topic, since you were witness to the kind of care which Srila Prabhupada demonstrated towards protecting Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari-ji, so typically we find that as the number of devotees of ISKCON is growing across the world, then people may start thinking that having a temple and deities is normal and it is just one more temple opening and one more set of deities. We just get them ordered and installed and things like that. But in your interactions with Srila Prabhupada during those days in Juhu and especially with Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari—of course it is a very detailed subject, but maybe many of our listeners today are not aware of the kind of care which Srila Prabhupada showed to welcome and request Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari to stay there—so could you throw some light on what kind of care Srila Prabhupada demonstrated with respect to his relationship with those Deities and some of the challenges you faced in that period.

Giriraj Swami: Before Juhu we were living in an apartment called Akash Ganga on Bhulabhai Desai Road, which was known as Gordon Road. And then when we got the Juhu land, Srila Prabhupada wanted us to bring the Deities, naturally. And the land, although we entered into an agreement to purchase it, but the land was owned by one Mr. A. B. Nair who was a demon. Once I gave a class about what happened in Juhu in New Dvaraka, Los Angeles, and His Grace Virabahu Prabhu afterwards told me, “I usually don’t like it when devotees use the word demon to describe people, but after hearing your description, I agree actually Nair was a demon.” So, he was basically trying to cheat Srila Prabhupada and take money from him and eventually on some pretext cancel the agreement and keep the money and send us away. But Srila Prabhupada understood as they say possession is nine-tenths of the law, but how important it would be for us to maintain possession by having the Deities. And he made a promise to Them, “My dear Sir, You just come and sit here and I will build you a temple.” And I took that statement for the title of my forthcoming book, “I’ll Build You a Temple.” And he did. 

But all along he took great care to see that the Deities were worshiped properly. And there was one incident, because we had our semi-permanent temple, we had our pandal, and then that is how we began at Hare Krishna Land in Juhu. And then after the pandal program we had something like a shamiana, a little platform for the Deities. And a brahmachari would sleep there at the night. One night someone came in and stole the jewelry in spite of the brahmachari being there. Malati dasi informed Srila Prabhupada what was happening and Srila Prabhupada wrote me such a heavy letter, “I have come to understand that the Deities are being neglected. This is a most abominable affair.” I was really stunned by that letter and it took me a while to recover from Srila Prabhupada’s heavy statements, but he was so protective of the Deities, and not just protective of the Deities, he was protective of our spiritual lives because he knew that if we were neglectful of the Deities, we would be committing offenses, and thus we would be suffering spiritually. But he was always concerned about the Deities service. He was always checking with us and I had to report what I was doing to protect the Deities.

He said I should buy a safe and keep the Deities’ jewelry—it wasn’t real jewelry but people might have thought it was—in a safe. And he gave many detailed instructions about how to protect the Deities and Their paraphernalia.

Gauranga dasa: Many times devotees feel that the main aspect of Krishna consciousness is taking care of one’s spiritual sadhana and even to some extent taking care of the body. Many times one feels that the mental or the emotional aspects of one’s life may not be so directly important in the progress of spiritual life because after all so many of our great acharyas and different mahājanas in our sampradāya, we saw them just performing so many austerities and showing the way by their spiritual tapasya or spiritual progress. 

So, maybe at this point I would request you to share some of Srila Prabhupada’s pastimes or Prabhupada’s emphasis on mental and emotional care for the devotees and how important it is with respect to our progress in spiritual life. And if yes, then how is this emotional care to our spiritual life and spiritual progress, because it looks like spiritual life is a standalone element where the holy name is there, the holy name enters your heart, and then your progress is very much dependent on that. So where do you factor this emotional element and what has been your experience with Srila Prabhupada on this matter?

Giriraj Swami: I would say that as far as emotional care, I would translate that into feeling discouraged, how Srila Prabhupada protected us or cared for us, protected us from becoming discouraged.

I will give a little example. There were a lot of complications regarding establishing the Juhu temple because of Nair and his accomplices. So, at one stage I would be going to the city every day from Juhu which was quite far from the city to work on getting the permission to build the temple. In fact, Srila Prabhupada was so concerned about that that he didn’t want to leave Bombay until we actually got the permit. And so he stayed in Bombay for about three months, every evening speaking about the teachings of Lord Kapila to Devahuti which was eventually compiled into a book. 

So, usually I would get back from the city just in time to take a little prasāda and attend the kirtan and class. And Srila Prabhupada was so concerned about the work that sometimes he would call me to the vyāsāsana during the program and ask for the news. But still, he wanted us to be happy in Krishna consciousness. One evening during the program he announced from the vyāsāsana, “You must always dance in kirtan even if you don’t get the permission.”

Another example was. . . for some time we didn’t have a proper place for Srila Prabhupada in Juhu and so he would stay at different life members’ homes in the city. So, in 1973, when he was staying in Karthikeya Mahadevia’s flat at Sea Face Park, I would meet him in the evening and give him a report. I would always try to engage the people I met somehow or the other. If someone didn’t want to become a life member, I’d ask him to place an advertisement in a publication. If he didn’t want to place an ad, I would ask him to buy a set of books, if he didn’t want to buy a set of books, I would ask him to give a donation or at least buy one book or at least give something, anything, to help and do some service. And at the end of the day I would report to Srila Prabhupada. 

So one day I met many people and not one contributed in any way. So in the evening when I came back and gave the report to Srila Prabhupada, I felt very disappointed, but Srila Prabhupada instructed, “If you sincerely try your best to please Krishna, Krishna will be satisfied even if others are not.” So I thought about that a lot and he was really reminding me of what bhakti is, to please Krishna. We sincerely try our best to please Krishna and Krishna will be satisfied even if others are not, meaning even the people I met were not satisfied and didn’t want to contribute and even if the other devotees were not satisfied because I didn’t bring in any results. 

I would say that was a very important part of Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual protection that he always encouraged us no matter what was happening.

Even with the Juhu land, when there were so many complications and we weren’t getting the permission to build, Srila Prabhupada said, “Okay, we will turn Hare Krishna Land into a bus stop. We will have buses. We will fill them with books and devotees and send them out and when they need more books they can come back. We will make it a bus stop.” 

So he was always encouraging.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you so much, Maharaja. It is really heartening to hear about Srila Prabhupada’s mood of encouraging his devotees. Now from ‘77, if you compare the situation today, the number of congregation devotees have grown exponentially, and ISKCON has become largely a very congregationally based organization. So, in this context, the very future stability and growth and spiritual strength of ISKCON very much rests upon the health of the gṛhastha-āśrama. So I would request you to share some of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions or demonstrations of care for gṛhastha-āśrama or how the husband and wife should stay in a Krishna consciousness setting and how you saw Srila Prabhupada demonstrate care for the grihasthas.

Giriraj Swami: He very much emphasized that the couples should stay together. There was a Bengali lady in Bombay who was having a very difficult time with her husband. She was a, you could say, congregation devotee, and so she appealed to Srila Prabhupada to give her permission to leave her husband. She didn’t even say divorce but she just asked for his permission to separate. And Srila Prabhupada refused. He was very strong that she must stay with her husband.

In general, he really insisted on the point that there is no divorce in Krishna consciousness, and he was concerned that the householders were able to maintain themselves. Now, during Srila Prabhupada’s time, pretty much all the devotees were temple devotees, meaning they lived in the temple. They were maintained by the temple. But Srila Prabhupada had a concern that they shouldn’t take advantage of the temple; he wanted them to be responsible. And he said that we could maintain householders if they were doing essential service, and he defined essential service as service that we would have to pay someone else to do if they weren’t doing it. And under those circumstances we could maintain them. But otherwise he wanted them to be responsible; he didn’t want them to take advantage of the temple facility.

It is an odd way of looking at care in the sense that he wasn’t in a way caring for them physically, but he was caring for them spiritually in the sense that he didn’t want them to take undue advantage of Krishna’s property and facilities.

But as a rule on Hare Krishna Land, if a couple wanted. . . Prabhupada didn’t allow the couples to stay together. He said that Hare Krishna Land was really for renounced householders or maybe older householders. So, anyway, he would regularly check on how the space on the property was being used, and I would have to go one by one and tell him who was staying in each room. So, in one room I had put or allowed a householder couple to stay together, and Srila Prabhupada asked me why I had done that, because he didn’t want that as a rule. So I mentioned the devotee’s name and that I wanted to save him because otherwise he was drifting away further and further. So he said, “Well, that way if you ready to give the householders a room, with a fan and food and everything else, the whole city of Bombay will come to be saved and then what will you do?”

Of course he wanted to save every disciple but he also wanted us to maintain certain principles that would govern how we accommodated devotees and you are asking about householders and how we would engage them.

There was another case. . . there were a few cases involving householders whom Srila Prabhupada wanted to be responsible and not depend on the temple and one interesting case was Ambarish dasa, Alfred Ford. Ambarish dasa came to Juhu. He was my preaching assistant for a while; I used to take him to meet people and before leaving Juhu he had a meeting with Srila Prabhupada about his future and I happened to be there. Srila Prabhupada told him that he wanted him to work because he wanted people to understand that one could be a devotee of Krishna and at the same time have a responsible position in society. So Ambarish Prabhu asked Srila Prabhupada, “Do I have to work with the Ford Motor company?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No, any work.” 

And then Ambarish Prabhu asked, “Well, what about association? What will I do for association when I am working?” and Srila Prabhupada said, “If you always think, ‘I am doing this for Krishna,’ that will be your association.” So, of course, the association of devotees is essential and as far as possible householders should have a morning and evening program. As Srila Prabhupada said, first best, of course it is in context, but he said first best is to live in the temple, second best is to live near the temple and come to the temple every day, and next best is to turn your home into a temple. So he definitely wanted the householders to have their spiritual programs in the temple or at home.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you, Maharaja, for sharing your realizations. Just an added point is that many of the examples which you quoted of full time devotees of those times but then you also saw Srila Prabhupada interact with existing householders within the Indian society at that time. So what was Srila Prabhupada’s recommendation to people and how would he guide them when he saw that they were already having their own employment and business and kind of [protectual?] kind of congregation?

Giriraj Swami: He would encourage them to come to the temple, but mainly he would encourage them to do service, and for many of the householders that meant giving Lakshmi, and with Srila Prabhupada, when he. . . he didn’t ask for money that much, but he would talk about the principle, even the principle of householders giving 50 percent. And so he would encourage the householders to do service by contributing financially, and according to their ability, he would ask them to serve the mission. 

One of Srila Prabhupada’s maybe in a way most prominent householder devotees in Bombay was Mr. P. L. Sethi who was by work a building contractor, and Srila Prabhupada really engaged him in the construction in Juhu, first in building an additional floor on the top of those six tenement buildings at the back of Hare Krishna Land, and Srila Prabhupada told Mr. Sethi, and this was part of Prabhupada’s care for his disciples, that they should have proper accommodations and he said it is one of the duties of the spiritual master to see that his disciples have proper accommodations. So, he engaged Mr. Sethi in that building work and when the first building was done Mr. Sethi took Srila Prabhupada on a tour. Srila Prabhupada wanted to see the facility. And Srila Prabhupada was so pleased that he had created this facility for Prabhupada’s disciples that he said, “Just as you are building these rooms for my disciples here, Krishna will be preparing your room for you in Vaikuntha.” And Mr. Sethi said, “I am a sinful man,” which he wasn’t. “I am a sinful man, how can I go to Vaikuntha?” And Prabhupada said, “You don’t worry about that. I will manage that.”

Gauranga dasa: Thank you so much, Maharaja. We see that children are the future of the society, so with respect to ISKCON, how did Srila Prabhupada envisage the role for children and what was Srila Prabhupada’s vision with respect for caring for children in the movement?

Giriraj Swami: Most of the devotees who joined ISKCON during Srila Prabhupada’s time were quite young and not many were even married, and then the ones who did get married didn’t have children for a while. And then there were many children, in the West. But one child that we had in India was Sarasvati, the daughter of Shyamasundara and Malati, and Srila Prabhupada was very affectionate towards her. There was one incident, not in Bombay, but the devotees. . . it might have been in Vrindavan, the devotees were making a large quantity of chutney, a big feast for many guests. Somehow Sarasvati fell into the pot of chutney and all the devotees were so worried about the chutney and Prabhupada was worried about Sarasvati. He was always very personal and caring.

In Los Angeles after Deity greeting, he would have a plate of cookies brought for the children, and you can see many videos of him giving cookies to the children. In Juhu we didn’t have devotee children as such, but we had tenants on the property, and they had children. Some of the devotees, Madhudvisa Prabhu, and then he was assisted by Gargamuni Prabhu, they would have classes, informal classes for the children of the tenants, and Srila Prabhupada was very pleased with that program. Eventually Madhudvisa Prabhu went to Australia, Gargamuni Prabhu went to travel in India, but Srila Prabhupada said that this is a very important program and should go on even if Madhudvisa Prabhu and Gargamuni are not there. 

And so the establishment of gurukula, that was the beginning of gurukula in India in an informal way. And the establishment of gurukulas was a very important part of Srila Prabhupada’s program and it was a way that he was expressing his care for the children. And he didn’t want the parents to neglect their children in the name of service or for the sake of service. There was one lady disciple who was engaged in deity worship and Srila Prabhupada told her that, “Your child is your deity. You have to take care of your child.” He was very concerned. Of course it is good that devotees are enthusiastic to do service and I believe in New Vrindavan Srila Prabhupada suggested an arrangement by which one mother could look after the children while the other mothers were engaged in service. 

So that was good that the mothers were engaged in service, but he didn’t want the children neglected in any way. He took great care to make sure that the children were cared for.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you so much, Maharaja, for sharing your experiences on Prabhupada and child care. I want to now take the topic towards the history of that period when all of you were joining. So it was quite common for youth, especially in the West, to drop out from colleges and join various movements and things like that. But now, as we see society, families are very concerned about education and employment and career and things like that, so in that period when you saw Srila Prabhupada interacting with various devotees and with various families and youth, what is your understanding on Srila Prabhupada’s perspective on education and career and employment, considering what the world is today and considering the expectations of society and family are? So could you shed some light on that aspect.

Giriraj Swami: In my own case I was in my senior year in the university when I met Srila Prabhupada, towards the end of my senior year, and joined the temple. I asked the devotees should I continue my studies or not and the devotees said, “You should continue and get your degree. It could be useful in the future.” I never married and never had a career, but I think it was good. It didn’t take much extra effort to get a degree.

But there was a very interesting letter from Srila Prabhupada, it began like this, my father wrote Srila Prabhupada saying that I was a good student and that Prabhupada should encourage me to continue my studies. So Srila Prabhupada wrote me a letter in Boston enclosing my father’s letter and saying. . . because my father mentioned psychology and some other things, and Srila Prabhupada wrote back, “Of course we are more in the lines of divinity, so if you can go into divinity and show that Krishna consciousness is the post graduate study of all theistic conceptions, it will be a great service.”

So I didn’t know whether Srila Prabhupada was instructing me to do that or giving me the choice. I consulted my temple president Satsvarupa dasa Adhikari then, and he also didn’t know, so he said I should clarify with Srila Prabhupada. So I wrote Srila Prabhupada and I said that, “If you want me to go back to the university I will, but if you are giving me the choice I would rather stay in the temple and worship the Deities and go on saṅkīrtana with the other devotees.” And Srila Prabhupada wrote back, “Yes, there is no need for any further education. When Lord Chaitanya was discussing with Ramananda Raya who is the best educated person, the answer was one who is Krishna conscious is the best educated Krishna conscious person. And similarly when Prahlada’s father asked him what the best thing he learned was, Prahlada replied that devotional service was the best thing. So, yes, there is no need for further education.”

Now that letter, when I went to India. . . the earlier letter where he said about divinity and establishing Krishna consciousness as the post graduate study of all theological conceptions, I left that letter in Boston when I went to India. And Satsvarupa Maharaja shared that letter with Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu and Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu took it as an instruction to him or direction for him, and he did go back to the university, got his PhD; he is a brilliant person. 

It is really quite an individual matter. Of course the context now is quite different from when Srila Prabhupada was present. I hesitate to presume what Srila Prabhupada would say in the present context, but I would say it is certainly. . . if one wants to, it is certainly a valid course of action to pursue one’s study and then pursue a career as long as one is able to maintain Krishna consciousness. So yes, of course that is fine, but we shouldn’t get so carried away with our studies and our careers that we neglect our Krishna consciousness.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you very much, Maharaja. Next question is connected to financial care because you know for anyone to live in this world especially in the gṛhastha-āśrama, and ultimately the gṛhastha-āśrama is the one which also supports the other ashramas. So what was Srila Prabhupada’s perspective on financial care and I would also request you to share the story from Kolkata where you went to the Birlas house in a very unique manner and then got the first donation for the Mayapur construction, for the school or something. So you could share that also.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada said that money is the honey, and there was a famous so-called religious figure in India, and it was said that if people offered him money, his hand would curl and withdraw from it. And Srila Prabhupada said, “If someone offers us money, we will take it and use it for Krishna.” 

He encouraged devotees to earn and contribute. I was a brahmachari and so I didn’t have much personal facility, but as you mentioned, I did want to approach the Birlas for a donation, and the head Birla in Calcutta was B. M. Birla. He was in charge of manufacturing the Ambassador cars. I knew I couldn’t just show up at his door in a rickshaw or something and get anywhere. So I went to one of our life members and I said, “I want to approach B. M. Birla, but I want arrive there looking in a dignified manner. So can I borrow your car and driver?” So he gave me his car and driver and I went to the Birla mansion and I looked pretty together with my car and chauffeur. They had those circular driveways that would take you right up to the entrance and the entrance was open. So I just walked in with my briefcase and I really didn’t know where to turn. But anyway I did turn somewhere, I turned to the west, the left, and Mr. Birla’s grandson was there, a very sweet young man, very polite. He said, “Can I help you?” And I said, “I have come to meet Mr. Brijmohan Birla.”

So Mr. Birla gave a big donation. I think it was the biggest up till that time. But yes, his grandson was very nice. There was a little delay in the donation coming. I wasn’t sure what was happening, so I phoned the Birla residence, and I spoke to the grandson, I asked him, “Do you have any idea what’s happening with the donation your grandfather promised?” 

So, yes, we had a lot of good times and adventures in Srila Prabhupada’s service. Although personally we were poor, we were in touch with a lot of wealthy and aristocratic people in Calcutta. That is where I was first. 

There was one—I don’t even know why I am saying this; it was just a little anecdote—before partition, the wealthiest man in what became Pakistan was Brijratan Mohatta who was R. D. Birla’s son-in-law. R. D. Birla gave his daughter, Radha[?] in marriage to Brijratan Mohatta. So after Srila Prabhupada left, my parents came. This is something I hope I can fit in, how Srila Prabhupada dealt with my parents, because it shows a lot. Anyway, we had a program at Mr. Mohatta’s house and as is the custom or tradition or practice, as the guests were leaving after the program, maybe Mr. and Mrs. Mohatta were at the door greeting the guests as they were leaving, and Mrs. Mohatta told my parents that, “If I tell my husband to do something, he may or may not do it, but if your son tells him to do something, he’ll always do it.” So that was like, what can I say, it is just Prabhupada’s mercy that he engaged us and empowered or inspired us. 

Gauranga dasa: Prabhupada’s dealings with your parents, can you please go ahead.

Giriraj Swami: This was very instructive. So my parents came to Calcutta to visit me and I was a little apprehensive because I just didn’t know how I would deal with the situation. So the first thing Srila Prabhupada told me was that I should spend time with them, which I didn’t even know if I should beyond the bare minimum. He said, “You should spend with them.” And then another thing he said, “You should not ask them for anything otherwise they will think that we don’t take care of our devotees.” And factually I was being taken care off; I didn’t need to ask them for anything. But I found that very instructive. I shouldn’t ask anything of them or else they will think we are not taking care of our devotees.

So they came and I brought them to meet Srila Prabhupada and he dealt with them so expertly especially. . . he spoke in such a way as to break my father’s prejudices against India or Indians, and even in favor of big people in the material world. But then, towards the end of the meeting. . . I was quite thin then. I think a lot of our devotees were quite thin back then. Anyway I was quite thin and my mother was very concerned about my health. And in those days, people in the West at least had the idea that if you don’t eat meat, you won’t be able to get enough protein. So my mother brought this up and Srila Prabhupada, he would always have sweets on his table to give to people, some prasāda. And being Calcutta especially, he had sandeśa. So when my mother expressed her concern that I was not getting enough protein, so he distributed some sandeśa to my parents as prasāda, and he said, “These are made of cheese and they are very high in protein.” And then he turned to me and said, “You must eat two dozen rasagullā and sandeśa every day,” which I am still working on. I haven’t made it, but I am working at it.

There are many details, but the result was that my parents were charmed by Srila Prabhupada, and as they were leaving his room, and I was accompanying them, my father said to me, “I can say two things about your master. He really knows how to deal with people and he is a brilliant organizer.” And in my father’s value system those were the two highest compliments he could pay to anyone.

After Calcutta, eventually I went to Madras, the first ISKCON devotee to go to Madras, and there I was living at different people’s homes. We had no temple or center. And I was eating lots of good idlis and dosas and sambar and I put on weight. Then eventually I arranged a program for Srila Prabhupada. He came for a week and he saw that I had gained weight, and he said that, “You should take a picture of yourself and send it to your mother.” He hadn’t forgotten about my health, my weight, my nourishment, and he wanted me to reassure her by sending her a picture of myself a little more healthy looking.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you so much, Maharaja, for sharing these amazing experiences with Srila Prabhupada. Just on the perspective of care for the renounced order or those being senior preachers within ISKCON, many of the ISKCON devotees are not aware of the efforts which yourself and Tamal Krishna Maharaja made to create a facility in Govardhana, especially for those experienced preachers and sannyasis and senior brahmacharis, and how they could be cared for by taking retreats and taking time off, downtime, recuperating, re-energizing themselves again for preaching. So, could you share with our devotees who are hearing today’s event about how that particular incident came to pass and what was the history of you acquiring that place and what was the thought process.

Giriraj Swami: We became aware of the importance of Govardhana. It is in the shastras and especially at the end Srila Prabhupada wanted to go to Govardhana on parikramā for Govardhana-puja, but of course his health did not allow him to do that. But it was in our minds that he wanted to do that. So this palace—it was a king’s—was not being used, and I found out about the owner, he was the Maharaja of Chattarpur which is in Madhya Pradesh, and he had two bases, one at Chattarpur and one at Khajuraho which is a tourist destination. So I went and met him. I heard that he was favorable to ISKCON, so I went and met him. I took a train down.

I asked him to donate the palace, and he said, “If you had asked me earlier I would have been happy to donate it, but times are bad for kings nowadays, so I can’t donate. But I will give it to you for a very reasonable price,” which he did. It was really reasonable. His panda at Govardhana was very upset that he was giving it to us for so little and part of his family members were upset. But he stuck to his word.

So we acquired that palace at Govardhana. We wanted it to be a place for men to come and go deep in sadhana. So we had a rule that. . . of course women could come but they could not spend the night there. It was good not only for our devotees but that policy was very much appreciated in the Govardhana area. People came to know of it and they were pleased and impressed because maybe they might have had some questions about how strict we were, what our principles were. 

Although it is true that Tamal Krishna Goswami and I were the ones to acquire it but Kesava Bharati dasa Gosvami, he also. . . Tamal Krishna Goswami engaged him there and he oversaw the refurbishment. We paid for most of it but he oversaw the refurbishment of the palace. And devotees come. I mentioned Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu earlier in a different context, but one year he was elected to be the GBC chairman, so he came and he spent a month at Govardhana, chanting sixty-four rounds a day to prepare himself for the responsibility of being the GBC chairman. And many devotees come. Vaisesika Prabhu comes and he and Kesava Bharati dasa Gosvami, they have readings during Kartika. 

So it has served a purpose especially for the brahmacharis and sannyasis to come and go deep in bhajana at the side of the holy Govardhana Hill.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you, Maharaja. Thank you for covering so many different aspects in today’s discussion.

In conclusion I would like to request you to share some of your memories with His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja. The whole world of ISKCON is really in separation from His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja. Various memorials are happening all over the world, so as part of our conversation on devotee care, he was such an emblem and symbol of devotee care. We would request you to share some of your memories or his interactions with Srila Prabhupada and some of your interactions during those times and also after Srila Prabhupada departed and some of your heart’s memories to share.

Giriraj Swami: His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja took very good care of Srila Prabhupada during his last months and weeks when he was ill in Vrindavan. I feel eternally indebted to him for the way he took care of Srila Prabhupada. And there were many pastimes of Srila Prabhupada’s towards the end in which Bhakti Charu Swami was involved. One was Prabhupada’s desire to go to Govardhana Hill by bullock because Lokanath Swami had come to Vrindavan and he had been traveling around India with a bullock cart and going to holy places and holding programs and festivals and distributing books and Srila Prabhupada was very encouraged by that program and he also wanted to further encourage Lokanath Swami. So, he said he would take a bullock cart, go by bullock cart to Govardhana Hill on the occasion of Govardhana-puja.

Now Bhakti Charu Swami and the other devotees who were personally serving Srila Prabhupada then, including Tamal Krishna Goswami, understood that Srila Prabhupada’s health would not sustain that journey. Even if they. . . they were saying they could put a mattress on the bullock cart, but even then the roads were so bumpy with potholes, Prabhupada wouldn’t have been able to sustain that journey. And Srila Prabhupada had had a dream about a Ramanuja kavirāja taking care of him, and so Adridharana Prabhu from Calcutta found a Ramanuja kavirāja who came to Vrindavan, and he was really good, and he was really helping Srila Prabhupada, and he said Prabhupada is making progress, but he will not be able to sustain that journey by bullock cart to Govardhana Hill.

So in the end—there are many details—but in the end Bhakti Charu Swami was instrumental in getting Srila Prabhupada’s godbrother Akiñcana Krishna dasa Babaji to appeal to Srila Prabhupada not to go and Srila Prabhupada immediately agreed.

Much later. . . not much later, whatever, but in Mayapur, Bhakti Charu Swami had very big quarters upstairs at the very top, and he was such a wonderful Vaishnava and a gracious host, and he had space to accommodate many devotees. So especially during the time of the Gaura-purnima festival, GBC meetings and Govardhana-puja festival, so many devotees would stay upstairs in his area. I remember one year he gave a room towards the end to His Holiness Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja which is very nice and Gour Govinda Maharaja would have darshans there and speak to devotees. There was a lot of space. One year Radhanath Swami and I stayed there. More than one year.

He was a great cook and a great host and he could organize good cooking. And I remember he would arrange these feasts. He served us there. He would also arrange feasts for the GBC members that would be carried over to the Lotus building where they would take prasāda regularly. 

But he was such a loving and caring person. He would help with projects. There are so many projects he helped, but I am thinking of one because one devotee in the mood of appreciating Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja and feeling separation from him, from South Africa, so her grandparents were wonderful devotees and they lived in a town called Pietermaritzburg, which is not far from Durban, and they wanted to build as temple. Not her grandparents as such but the community wanted to build a temple and they just couldn’t do it. They couldn’t muster the resources. So somehow one of the devotees mentioned it to Bhakti Charu Swami and he immediately swung into action. She actually wrote in a letter to me, “He was a man of action.” And he arranged all the resources to build that temple quite quickly and that temple is standing there, the Deities are bestowing Their mercy and blessings.

And he would go to places and arrange for gold leafing. I don’t know all the places, but I know in Los Angeles in New Dvaraka, he did that, he arranged for some gold leafing for the srngasanas for the Deities and at Gītā-nagarī he arranged for gold leafing for Srila Prabhupada’s vyāsāsana. 

He was so generous that Krishna gave him a lot of facility and he used that facility to serve Srila Prabhupada and the devotees. 

And he was so personal with everyone. He was so approachable. He is being missed sorely and he will be missed. But he was really a very, very loving and caring person.

Gauranga dasa: Thank you so much, Maharaja, for sparing your valuable time with all of us. On behalf of the GBC organizing team and the Devotee Care Global Directorate, I wish to express gratitude for sharing such amazing realizations and pastimes of Srila Prabhupada with respect to spiritual care, physical care, emotional care, caring for children, for grihasthas, and we hope and pray that these wonderful lessons, instructive pastimes which you have shared, will really act as the true north for devotee care which is happening right now in ISKCON, and more and more leaders across leaders will be inspired to implement systems of devotee care in their temples and in their communities.

Once again offering prayers for His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja.