Srila Prabhupada’s Disappearance Day—Just See How Much They Love Me

Giriraj Swami: So I thank you for inviting me to address you on the auspicious occasion of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance day. Once on his Guru Maharaja’s disappearance day, Srila Prabhupada said, “On the absolute platform, there is no difference between the appearance and the disappearance of the spiritual master. Both are beautiful, just like the sunrise and sunset.” So, although we feel separation, within that separation, our remembrance of Srila Prabhupada is heightened, and thus we experience the beauty of his presence, even in separation.

I will speak with you about Srila Prabhupada’s final pastimes and what I learned from his departure. A few days before he was to leave us, Srila Prabhupada expressed a desire to travel by bullock cart to different holy places in India. His Holiness Lokanath Swami had been traveling by bullock cart to different places of pilgrimage and Srila Prabhupada was very enlivened when Lokanath Swami reported to him in Vrindavan; and Prabhupada said that he too would like to go on pilgrimage on a bullock cart. He asked Lokanath Swami to arrange it, and Lokanath Swami was enthusiastic, especially having been encouraged by Srila Prabhupada in such a direct way.

So he immediately went to organize the cart and make all the arrangements. Govardhana-puja was to take place in a couple of days and Prabhupada said that he would begin his pilgrimage by traveling by bullock cart to Govardhana Hill to celebrate Govardhana-puja with the vrajavāsīs. At that time, Srila Prabhupada was bedridden and one could say, emaciated. He was unable to eat and he was able only to sip a little liquid. He was gaunt and weak with almost no energy. He would just lie on his bed and sometimes with great difficulty he would speak softly, often so faintly that only those who are very close to him could hear his words.

There were many devotees in the room when Srila Prabhupada had his exchange with Lokanath Swami, and immediately after the discussion ended and devotees went outside, they began to express two strong heartfelt opinions about what Srila Prabhupada should do and more than that, how we as disciples should relate to him and serve him.

One group which included Lokanath Swami and other esteemed senior disciples, such as Hansadutta Prabhu and Bharadraja Prabhu, felt that we should do just what the spiritual master orders. We shouldn’t question his order, we should just execute it. And some of the other disciples, many of whom had been attending to Prabhupada’s personal care, felt that Prabhupada’s health would not sustain his travels on a bullock cart and that because he was so emaciated, he had practically no flesh on his bones, it would be very painful for him.

Even if they padded the cart with a mattress, it would still be a basic bullock cart, and the roads in Vraja were very rough, so the movement of the cart would jostle him and he would feel pain. Some devotees feared that he might even give up his body on the way. They did not want him to be subjected to what they foresaw as certain pain and perhaps, the dire consequence of his death.

But under the circumstances, the second position was difficult to maintain because Srila Prabhupada was so emphatic. He had said: “Let me travel to all the tirtha-sthānas, all the holy places.” And whatever objections devotees had raised against the proposal, he had countered “One-day experiment, rest assured. I will not die in one day.”

Now, Srila Prabhupada had a dream, that he was being treated by a Ramanuja kavirāja, and Adridharan Prabhu found one in Calcutta who brought him to Vrindavan. And this kavirāja named Damodar Prasad Shastri was very good, he was an excellent kavirāja. He was a fine devotee and he really appreciated and cared for Srila Prabhupada. So, the kavirāja had predicted that with all the jostling on the bullock cart, Prabhupada would not survive more than two hours. But Prabhupada had replied “But I think, I shall be cured.” Still, Tamal Krishna Goswami, Bhakti Charu Swami, Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja, Bhavananda Maharaja, and others felt strongly that this experiment would have dire consequences. But, how to convince Srila Prabhupada?

So, the controversy continued when Srila Prabhupada said, “I think I shall be cured.” Hansadutta and others took it that he was supporting their position. But the other side took it differently: “What does it mean that he is going to be cured? It means he is going to leave his body and get a spiritual body, that’s how he is going to get cured.” So, each party was saying things in a particular way that supported its particular point of view.

Finally, things came to the stage where the bullock cart was waiting outside the gates of the Krishna-Balarama mandir. And, I mean, in a way it was horrible, frankly, in a way it was horrible. Everything was being readied, and for the devotees who were in the mood that Srila Prabhupada should stay, it must have been like when the residents of Vrindavan saw Akrura getting the chariot ready to take Krishna away.

The evening before his planned departure, Srila Prabhupada was lying on his bed, in his house in Vrindavan. Bhakti Charu Swami was in the room and Srila Prabhupada’s godbrother Akincana Krishna dasa Babaji Maharaja came to visit. Babaji Maharaja was a very advanced devotee; Srila Prabhupada said that he was a paramahamsa. He was always engaged in hari-nāma, absorbed in hari-nāma, and he was always blissful. And he and Prabhupada had an extraordinarily affectionate relationship. So Bhakti Charu Swami thought “Let me appeal to Babaji Maharaja if he asks Prabhupada not to go then Prabhupada may listen.” So he brought Babaji Maharaja into another room and spoke with him. Having heard what had happened, Babaji Maharaja returned to Srila Prabhupada’s bedside and told him: “I don’t think you should go on this parikramā.” And when he heard this, Srila Prabhupada replied, “If you feel that way, then I won’t go.”

Just then, Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda Maharaja, who had been upstairs in what previously had been Prabhupada’s bedroom, came back down in a very emotional state. Prabhupada was aware of what they were thinking and he asked, “So you request me not to go?” Tamal Krishna Goswami responded: “Srila Prabhupada, we were getting so upset. Two devotees told me that this road is so bad that if you go on this road you are going to be jolted back and forth, the road is terrible. I just can’t understand Srila Prabhupada, why it has to be tomorrow that we have to go? If anybody wants you to travel, I do. But why do we have to go when you are in this condition? I can’t understand it.”

Srila Prabhupada said, “All right, I will not go.”

“Thank you Srila Prabhupada,” said Bhavananda. “I was in too much anxiety.” “No, No I cannot put you in anxiety. I shall do what you like. My left hand and my right hand, I cannot refuse.”

Tamal Krishna said, “Actually Srila Prabhupada, we are so attached to you that you practically drive us to madness sometimes. Tonight we were becoming mad.” “No, I shall not do that.” Prabhupada assured them. “All right.” he said, meaning that he would not go. Then Srila Prabhupada turned to Babaji Maharaja and said, “Just see how much they love me” and Tamal Krishna said “Srila Prabhupada, the way you deal with us simply deepens our attachment every moment” and Prabhupada replied, “It is my duty.”

Actually, Srila Prabhupada pronounced the word duty as juty, and he said that he had a professor at Scottish Church’s College, who would pronounce the word duty like juty, with a J.

But Srila Prabhupada’s reply was very deep. He was saying that it was his duty to increase our attachment for him, and in a way, his final pastimes were all designed in such a way, or at least they acted in such a way as to increase our attachment for him and draw our love out for him.

So when Prabhupada agreed not to go, for the devotees in the room it was a jubilant occasion as Tamal Krishna Goswami had said “We will take you on the tirtha-yatra to all the places, just get a little stronger.” But when the news reached the other group, they were upset: “This is not our duty as disciples to try to prevail upon our spiritual master, our duty is to execute his will. He said that he wants to go by bullock cart to Govardhana, and our duty is to arrange for what he wants.” The controversy continued until the end, the anniversary of which is today.

Srila Prabhupada spent his last three days with his disciples at the Krishna-Balarama mandir, and the last day he didn’t speak. His only words were in the morning, when the kavirāja asked him to drink some juice and he replied, “Meri kuch iccha nahin” “I have no desire.” After that, Srila Prabhupada did not speak. He was in a completely internal state of consciousness and the devotees surrounded him with kirtan. For the last few hours in the afternoon, the leaders opened up the doors to everyone. Young, old, children, men, women, all were allowed to be in the room with Srila Prabhupada and to reciprocate love with him. Then at about 7:26 p.m., his tongue and mouth moved, he actually said “Hare Krishna,” and he left.

Now as for the controversy, it continued; the feelings still ran strong on both sides even after Prabhupada left, and I couldn’t determine who was right. There were devotees senior to me on both sides, devotees whom I respected and had served. Personally, I may have been closer to some of the ones engaged in Prabhupada’s personal service, such as Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhakti Churu Swami, and Bhaktisvarupa Damodar Swami. And I still wasn’t sure who was right, and it was on my mind.

It was my habit or practice to chant japa into Srila Prabhupada’s rooms when he wasn’t there and after he departed I did that. I was in his room chanting japa and behind his bed was an area with his bookshelves. Somehow, I found a little corner there and was chanting japa when my eyes fell upon the new volume of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that had just arrived, the Tenth Canto Volume Two. It had been delivered into Srila Prabhupada’s hands in his last days. When the devotees had presented the book to Srila Prabhupada and he was looking at the pictures, everyone could see the love in his eyes. Tamal Krishna Goswami had commented, “How much love for Krishna Prabhupada has” as was evident from the way Prabhupada had been looking at the pictures of Krishna. So I saw that volume, it had gold embossing, especially made for Srila Prabhupada. I opened it up, and it happened to open to Chapter Nine: “Mother Yasoda Binds Krishna.” I read a few verses and purports, and then I came to a verse that to me, answered the question.

It’s Text Nineteen. I’ll read it:

evaṁ sandarśitā hy aṅga
hariṇā bhṛtya-vaśyatā
sva-vaśenāpi kṛṣṇena
yasyedaṁ seśvaraṁ vaśe

“O Mahārāja Parīkṣit, this entire universe, with its great, exalted demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā and Lord Indra, is under the control of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yet the Supreme Lord has one transcendental attribute: He comes under the control of His devotees. This was now exhibited by Kṛṣṇa in this pastime.”

And the pastime was encapsulated in the previous verse:

sva-mātuḥ svinna-gātrāyā
visrasta-kabara-srajaḥ
dṛṣṭvā pariśramaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ
kṛpayāsīt sva-bandhane

“Because of mother Yaśodā’s hard labor, her whole body became covered with perspiration, and the flowers and comb were falling from her hair. When child Kṛṣṇa saw His mother thus fatigued, He became merciful to her and agreed to be bound.”

So when I read these verses, I thought, This is what happened. The spiritual master is the transparent medium through which Krishna manifests Himself. Of course, in vraja-bhakti the relationship with Krishna is different. In Vraja, Krishna exhibits nara-līlā humanlike pastimes, in which there is complete intimacy and freedom between the devotees and the Lord. In the relationship between the disciples and the spiritual master, however, there is always an element of awe and reverence and duty. But still, our executing, our duty is meant to lead us to develop love. And Srila Prabhupada did say to Babaji Maharaja, when we requested him not to go “Just see how much they love me.”

One month earlier, there had been another incident: Srila Prabhupada stopped drinking. Earlier he had said that when his father had wanted to leave his body he had stopped drinking and that this was a bona fide way to give up one’s body when the time came. Prabhupada didn’t make any announcement or anything, he just stopped drinking. Upendra dasa, a very sweet devotee who was serving as Srila Prabhupada’s personal assistant, innocently said to him “Prabhupada, you have to drink. If you don’t drink, you’ll become dehydrated.” And Prabhupada said “O, you want me to drink? Call the GBC.” That decision whether Prabhupada should drink or not was no small matter, so Abhirama informed the GBC and the GBC and senior devotees came into the room. Prabhupada said, “If I want to survive, of course I’ll have to take something, but my survival means so many inconveniences. Therefore, I have decided to die peacefully.”

At that time, Tamal Krishna Goswami said “Everything is in the hands of Krishna, because that had been the mood coming from Srila Prabhupada, everything depends on Krishna.” Many times Prabhupada said that he would accept whatever Krishna desired. If Krishna allowed him to stay, he would stay, and if Krishna wanted him to go, he would go. Previously, a disciple had asked him “You said that your Guru Maharaja left early because he was disgusted, is that the case with you?” And Srila Prabhupada had replied “No. If Krishna allows me to stay in your association, I will be very happy to stay with you” But now, Tamal Krishna goes on, he said “Everything is in the hands of Krishna” But now Srila Prabhupada opened his eyes and said, “Krishna has given me the choice, He wants me to do as I wish. He has given me full freedom.” This was a different mood, a completely different answer. And it also gave us a glimpse into the intimate reciprocation between Prabhupada and Krishna.

So we all went out into the ante room and discussed. Kirtanananda Swami was most clear and lucid and intelligent, he said “If Krishna has given Prabhupada the choice, and if Prabhupada is giving us the choice, then we should ask Prabhupada to stay.” Everyone agreed: “Yes, we should ask him to stay.” Then, the devotee said “But all the GBC men aren’t here.” And Brahmananda recorded “Come on! What GBC is going to say that they don’t want Prabhupada to stay?” So was decided unanimously, “We would go back into Srila Prabhupada’s room and tell him that we wanted him to stay.” Kirtanananda would be the spokesman.

We went back into the room and Prabhupada was lying quietly on his bed. As soon as we finished offering obeisances, Kirtanananda broke down and started sobbing, he couldn’t speak. Brahmananda, sitting behind him rubbed his back to soothe him, and Kirtanananda managed to say, “Srila Prabhupada, if Krishna has given you the choice, then don’t go. We need you,” Prabhupada asked, “Is this your joint opinion? Have you discussed?” “Yes, we have all met together. We want you to remain, and lead this movement and finish the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.” Prabhupada was silent for what seemed like an eternity. Then he yawned and said “All right.” Just like that, he agreed to stay in such a nonchalant way.

All the devotees were jubilant. Within ourselves, we were rejoicing, “Prabhupada is going to stay! Prabhupada is going to stay! He is not going to leave us! He is going to finish Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam! He is going to lead this movement!” And then Prabhupada said “This is real affection.”

So, when I read this verse from the Tenth Canto, I thought of these two incidents and put them together. In both cases, when the disciples had expressed themselves “We want you to stay, we want you to get healthy,” Prabhupada said “This is real love, just see how much they love me.” All the disciples in the controversy about the parikramā were acting on the basis of their realization of their devotion for Srila Prabhupada, but I believe that what Srila Prabhupada really was doing was drawing out our loving sentiments, beyond just following the order. Following the order is a given, there is no question. We have to follow the order of the spiritual master, to disobey the order of the spiritual master is an offense. So we are not talking about disobeying the order of the spiritual master, we are talking about developing loving feelings for the spiritual master and expressing them to him.

When Srila Prabhupada brought us to that point in those two incidents, it means that the point of expressing our loving feelings for him, he commented “This is real love, just see how much they love me.”

Now relating the verse from the Tenth Canto to what Srila Prabhupada did with us, I also saw a parallel between the dāmodara-līlā and that principle of spontaneous love. Every night during the month of Damodara, we were reciting the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, including verse three:

itīdṛk sva-līlābhir ānanda-kuṇḍe
sva-ghoṣam nimajjantam ākhyāpayantam
tadīyeṣita-jñeṣu bhaktair jitatvam
punaḥ prematas tam śatāvṛtti vande

“By such pastimes Lord Krishna drowned the residence of Gokula in pools of ecstasy and revealed to those devotees who were absorbed in knowledge of His supreme majesty and opulence, that He is conquered only by devotees whose pure love is imbued with intimacy and is freed from all conceptions of awe and reverence. To this Supreme Lord, Sri Damodara, whose belly is bound not with ropes but with His mother’s pure love, I offer my humble obeisances.”

The dāmodara-līlā shows pure spontaneous love’s special power to conquer the Lord. The Lord comes under the control of such pure love. In the same way, Srila Prabhupada, not exactly that he came under the control of our love, but I would say that he brought that love out from deep within the recesses of our hearts, and then he reciprocated with us by becoming under our control or agreeing to our requests.

So, this is a very deep pastime of Srila Prabhupada among the disciples who were around him. At the end, it was understood that as the perfect acharya, he had taught us by his own example how to live in Krishna consciousness and now he was teaching us how to die in Krishna consciousness. That was the general idea in those months and weeks that he was showing us how to retire to a holy place and how to be absorbed in hearing the holy names of the Lord. And how up until the end, even in his delicate condition, he was trying to push forward the mission and was translating and dictating purports to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam up until the very end.

In that way, he was showing us how to die in Krishna consciousness, but within that final lesson, he also brought us to this more intimate level of exchange, where we could express to him our heart’s deepest desires, even in spite of the barriers that I would say he deliberately put up. Yeah, he deliberately put up the barriers, but then he inspired us to break through them and reach out to him, and express our love for him, and ask him to stay with us.

Even though Srila Prabhupada has now left this world, we still have that choice, we always have that choice: do we want him to stay with us or not? I remember at that time, during Srila Prabhupada’s last days, although we had been going along in the mood that whatever Krishna wanted was all right, when we understood what really should have been in our hearts, that we wanted him to stay, we considered maybe we wanted to be the controllers, to be the enjoyers. So there is always that question: Do we want the kingdom of God, without God? without God’s representative? Or do we want the kingdom of God with God, with His representative? As their humble servants. So, on this occasion I pray to Srila Prabhupada that I will always remember this lesson and always pray and act in such a way that he will be pleased to stay with each and every one of us individually and all of us collectively, and bind us to his lotus feet eternally.

So, this was my main experience of a lesson that I derived from those last days with Srila Prabhupada. There was one other incident- Oh, it’s eight o’clock, I mean, here. It’s 9:30 there. Well, anyways, we do have time for questions and answers so I’ll take a little time out of the questions and answers to add this one more incident.

So this was three days before Prabhupada left. I was taking a rest on the terrace, on the rooftop of the gurukula and a devotee woke me up in the middle of the night and he said “Prabhupada wants to see you, Prabhupada is calling for you,” so I got up and went into his room. It was very dimly lit, Srila Prabhupada was lying on his bed and I sat down right next to his head because, again, he was speaking so faintly I wanted to be near his head so that I could hear what he was saying. And he asked me “So Giriraj, do you think this movement will go on after I leave?” and I replied “Yes, Srila Prabhupada. As long as the devotees are sincere and chant their rounds and follow the regulated principles, the movement will go on.” Then, Prabhupada was silent. And he said one word: “Organization.” Then he added “Intelligence. Organization and intelligence.” Then he said “Is there anything else?” meaning do I want to say anything else? And within my heart I was screaming “Srila Prabhupada don’t leave, please stay with us, don’t leave us.” But I didn’t say it. So, he said “Is there anything else?” and I said “No, Srila Prabhupada,” and I offered my obeisances and left.

But, I considered the significance of his answer “Organization, Intelligence and organization.” And I consider that yes, what I had said was true. The devotees do have to be sincere and chant their rounds and follow the regulated principles and that it’s necessary both for their own purification and advancement and it’s also necessary to have the potency to preach.

But, what Srila Prabhupada was saying by organization, intelligence and organization, is that we shouldn’t be satisfied with just chanting our rounds and following the regulative principles. But we should be very intelligent and organized, how to spread Krishna consciousness, because that was Srila Prabhupada’s real mood: that yes, we should taste Krishna consciousness and we should distribute it, and to distribute it on a large scale, we have to be intelligent and organized. So that was a very important instruction, and not only for me, for all devotees, but it was given to me by Srila Prabhupada.

All right,so Radheshyam Prabhu, shall we, as you had said, give devotees a chance to ask questions?

Radheshyam Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja, it was such a very absorbing way you narrated the Prabhupada’s passing away pastime, thank you very much Maharaja. Now, there are some chits, which have come from devotees, some questions to you. Anybody wishes to ask directly to Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: I prefer that the devotees who have questions ask them directly, so I know who was asking and I can see them while I’m answering.

Devotee 1: Hare Krishna. Thank you Maharaja, for your wonderful class. My question is, we heard about Prabhupada once in Los Angeles temple. I think that he was very sick and he wanted to still travel. So at that time some of the leaders were telling Prabhupada that he should not travel like that. So he told that “I want the benediction of leaving the body in the battlefield like Arjuna,” so then we see that how Prabhupada finally came to Vrindavan to leave his body. So how we understand this?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t really see any contradiction. Yeah, I think the incident you are referring to took place in New York but that’s okay, that’s just a minor point. And that was in 1976 when Srila Prabhupada—he wasn’t that sick, I mean he was sick but he wasn’t coming towards the end like he was in Vrindavan. And in Vrindavan, he continued translating which was his main preaching, you could say. He even commented about the bṛhat-mṛdaṅga, that the small mridanga, you can play it in your home or you can play it on the street and it will be heard for a few blocks. But the printing press is the bṛhat-mṛdaṅga and the books can travel all over the world. So Srila Prabhupada commented like that, yeah, he is sitting in his room in Vrindavan, but he is playing on the big mridanga and that sound will go all over the world.

Yeah, he was preaching to the end, of course, he was preaching by his example at every stage up until the very end. But he was also preaching, speaking to us and dictating his Bhaktivedanta purports to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and one of the very last purports he dictated at the end of the Thirteenth Chapter, he said “Discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as much daily as much as possible. The more you discuss, the more the matter will be clarified.” So that was a very important instruction in general, and especially for us as he was going to be leaving soon, that we can get answers from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Mahāmuni-kṛte, he mentioned the ripened fruit of the Vedic tree of knowledge. Very important and significant purport, one of the very last. ISKCON Rajgad raised his hand up?

Devotee (ISKCON Rajagad): Hare Krishna Maharaja, am I audible Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: You are. Yes, you are.

Devotee (ISKCON Rajagad): Very grateful for the pastime, which you narrated with great details. In the course of discussion you are saying, Maharaja, that how executing duty for guru should lead us to develop emotions for guru and Krishna, and you said that actually here we are not talking about following his order, we are talking about developing emotions and expressing them to the guru. So my question is, Maharaja, many of Prabhupada’s disciples would never express their emotions to Srila Prabhupada, so in our day-to-day life, what we should do to do this, Maharaja? Can you please help us?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I’ll describe one little incident from my experience with Srila Prabhupada in Juhu. Srila Prabhupada had a very good friend named Bhogilal Patel, who was a senior to Srila Prabhupada by about three years and extremely pious. I mean, when the first devotee met him and told him about Srila Prabhupada’s work, Bhogilal; he just began to weep in appreciation for what Srila Prabhupada did. He was a very aristocratic and pious gentleman. So, one morning he came to Juhu and I received him, I was quite close to him and I brought him up to meet Srila Prabhupada. And, as is natural in a conversation, it’s sort of hard to describe it, Prabhupada was sort of in front of me, to my left, and Bhogilal Patel was in front of me to my right. And it was natural that when Prabhupada was speaking I would look at him and when Bhogilal Patel was speaking I would look at him. But at one point, while Bhogilal Patel was speaking, I looked at Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada was looking at me with such love and affection, I mean, I couldn’t believe it. I had never saw, I had never experienced anyone look at me with such love and affection, like a father or grandfather by ages.

But as soon as Prabhupada saw me looking at him, he became very grave and serious, he didn’t want me to see that open expression of affection for me. Of course, he showed his affection for us by teaching us about Krishna consciousness and engaging us in Krishna’s service but he was not- Yeah he didn’t show affection that openly. And he was very reserved about touching, even disciples. I think, maybe in my whole experience with him, once he appreciated some service I did, I won’t tell the whole story, although it’s a nice story but- Yes, after I completed that service, I bowed down at his lotus feet and he sort of touched me, maybe when I got up.

I think these incidents that took place towards the end of Srila Prabhupada’s stay with us when he was in Vrindavan were special, in a way it’s become somewhat famous that Tamal Krishna Goswami in those last months, not at the very end but maybe in July, he said to Srila Prabhupada- I think Srila Prabhupada has said something about maintaining ISKCON and not letting it deteriorate. And Tamal Krishna Goswami said “You know we love you too much, Srila Prabhupada, to let that happen,” and then Srila Prabhupada had made this famous statement: “Your love for me will be shown by how you cooperate together to maintain this institution.” So, I mean, that’s how- Largely he expressed his love for us by caring for us spiritually and we expressed our love for him by serving his instructions and desires. But these pastimes at the end were very special and he wanted us to first feel that affection and love and then express it by asking him to stay with us.

So, I don’t know if that answered your question but it’s a hard question to answer now that Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically present. But as I said, he can be present whenever we want, we always have that choice. And you can show your love for him through your service and you can also tell him that you love him, why not? If you feel it, then you should express it. Yeah, that’s nice.

Devotee 3: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Thank you very much for that beautiful description of the pastime. Where, like you mentioned, there were two groups having a strong difference of opinions but their object of service, they wanted to please Prabhupada only. So many times, Maharaja, this such situation may come in our life also, like you said, that you had love for both the parties, both were very admirable godbrothers. So, in our case also sometimes some situations may come where we find there are some strong differences of opinions amongst Vaishnava community,and we love, we respect both of them, and we are confused what is right and what is wrong. And in case if we take any of the groups, we take any other side, that may be also inappropriate, or sometimes we have our own third opinion in that regard so we may create another group. So, what will please Prabhupada in such a situation? How do we act in this regard?

Giriraj Swami: In my humble opinion, you should just ask Radhe Shyam what to do, and then do what he says. I think that is a very easy question to answer. I mean, there are very instructive cases in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and I was quoting how Srila Prabhupada said, “Discuss Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily, read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily as much as possible. The more you discuss, the more the matter becomes clarified.” So there are cases in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam where a devotee is given conflicting instructions by authorities like Priyavrata and Lord Brahma, the Prachettas,Narada Muni. It was a very complicated situation and in his purport, Srila Prabhupada says that a disciple should be intelligent enough to follow the contradictory instructions of different authorities to find some way of reconciling them.

So yeah, I would suggest you read that section because it happens like that. That sometimes one receives and gets contradictory instructions from authorities but as far as groups- One instruction of Srila Jiva Gosvami is that when there is a difference between two authorities, one should not take sides, otherwise one may commit an offense. I mean, who we are talking about, people who are superior to you, spiritual authorities. Yeah, one should not take sides. In Srila Prabhupada’s last days we were discussing amongst godbrothers and that was a different situation, but yeah when there are differences between authorities one should not take sides, otherwise he may commit offenses, I hope that helps. Hare Krishna.

Devotee 4: I have a question regarding that we are Prabhupada’s grand disciple, so at the same time we have relationship with Prabhupada as śikṣā disciple, [1:18:27 inaudible], so when we are praying. . . 

Giriraj Swami: We lost your audio somehow.

Devotee 4: I am audible now

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee 4: We are Srila Prabhupada’s grand disciple and we also have relationship with Prabhupada as śikṣā disciple. So when does it becomes a (Inaudible 1:18:57]chain of command because we have our own spiritual master at the same time as Prabhupada as a śikṣā-guru. Because sometimes we hear more about Prabhupada, his pastimes, we are reading Prabhupada’s books more than as compared to our Spiritual Master, dīkṣā-guru? So, I just want to clarify on where it becomes a [Inaudible – 1.19.20] command. Because my dīkṣā-guru is also a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, it should not be that I am committing offense by surpassing him.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada’s position is different because he is the founder-acharya, he is not just your grandfather spiritual master, of course he is, but he is more than that. He is the founder-acharya, and the position of the founder-acharya is different. And the duty of every disciple of the founder-acharya is to direct their disciples to the founder-acharya, which I’m sure your- every guru in ISKCON does too. So I don’t think there is any question of overstepping your guru by taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. But, if your guru gives you a specific instruction you cannot avoid it by quoting some other instruction of Srila Prabhupada. That would be, I would say, offensive. Of course, it would depend on the mood of the interaction, if the guru says “Maybe we should do this, but what do you think?” Then of course, you are at liberty to express your opinion and if you quote Srila Prabhupada to substantiate your point of view that would be fine, that would be good. But sometimes the guru gives specific instructions and it’s really, in a way it has nothing to do with Srila Prabhupada’s general instructions, so it would be wrong to try to avoid a specific instruction from your guru by quoting a general instruction from Srila Prabhupada.

But there could be—It’s in The Nectar of Devotion: one should not accept more than one can comfortably perform. If the guru asks you to do something and you think it’s more than you can comfortably perform, you could bring up that statement from The Nectar of Devotion to make the point that you feel that it’ll be too much for you. I mean, it even happened with Srila Prabhupada, I mean, I always thought that a disciple should just do what Srila Prabhupada said but there was one case when Srila Prabhupada asked one of his senior devotees to accept some responsibility in India and that disciple agreed. But then it was really too much for the disciple, and then one day he just absconded, he didn’t leave Krishna consciousness but he just secretly left the Krishna-Balarama temple, went to Mathura, got on a train, went to Delhi and flew back to America.

And afterwards, Srila Prabhupada commented that “Out of sentiment he had agreed to follow my order but it was really beyond his capacity. And that statement of Srila Prabhupada made me think that yes, we want to say yes, of course we want to say yes, but if something is actually beyond our capacity and that if out of sentiment we say yes, but then when the time comes to actually performing the service we can’t do it, then it’s better to be more honest in assessing what we can do.

Of course, it is also said that when the spiritual master gives an instruction he also gives the potency to execute it, so I think most often that would be the case. That we should have faith that if we take up the order that the guru and the paramparā will help us, but it’s not wrong if you genuinely- Not for some self-serving purpose but if you genuinely feel that you are not able to follow an instruction, I think it’s your right, maybe even your duty, to express that to your spiritual master, do you get the point?

Devotee 5: Hare Krishna Maharaja, can I ask a question?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee 5: Maharaja, I observed, especially in the last ten years or so that Prabhupada’s lectures and books are very simple and straightforward up to the point, and very precisely he speaks out the truths and in the current trend in ISKCON. I see many people feel that it is better for us to not present the truth in straightforward manner and a little bit present in a covered up manner, in a way sensitive to the people and then gradually bring the truth. And in the same manner, I also observe that Prabhupada’s emphasis on the awakening of spiritual knowledge was very high. And the current contemporary time we find there is a lot of emphasis given on caring loving and that type of culture, loving and caring type of culture, and people are more looking for emotional security than enlightenment to come to knowledge of Krishna consciousness.

And also, many devotees feel that it should be given more importance than even enlightenment, and in the same manner I find that Prabhupada’s presentation of Krishna consciousness is very pure, exactly in line with the Bhāgavatam and Puranas, whatever he speaks, examples and everything. And the contemporary times I find there are a lot of diverse directions many devotees have taken, and they are pretty off from what Prabhupada thought. So when I observed it ten years ago, I wanted to check with you about this approach. I decided that there is too much diversity coming in terms of the knowledge that is being distributed. It is better for me to stick to the founder- acharya’s presentation of the truth, and based on which the whole movement is standing.

So I spent almost 90 percent of my time reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and Prabhupada’s lectures on which I keep my spiritual life as the basis. In this connection, I wanted to know from you, and therefore some others also have asked a question in a similar regard, if you are banking on Prabhupada’s presentation of the truth. And he is our grandfather’s disciple, people say that you should actually take inspiration from the current scenario, current situation. So therefore, I want as far as my personal relationship with my spiritual master is concerned, I report to him and whatever he personally instructs me I follow that. But at the same time my taking in as well as my speaking out is all based on Prabhupada’s books and Prabhupada’s lectures, which I find it very suiting to my understanding, so I want to check with you Maharaja, whether this is a proper approach.

Giriraj Swami: That sounds good to me. I mean yes, sometimes Srila Prabhupada would speak very strongly and his books still have effect. There was one devotee who joined in San Diego, California, someone gave him a book, I think a small book, and he opened it up and the book that he read- If you are simply engaged in eating, sleeping, mating and defending then what’s the difference between you and an animal? You are no better than an animal. And that completely new person, he just got a book on the street, he thought “Yeah, that’s true. What is the difference? There is no difference.” And he decided to join.

Srila Prabhupada’s presentation is very effective and his books are very potent, I mean there are just to give some credence to the other position, there could be a value in what they call bridge preaching, to make a bridge between where people are now and pure Krishna consciousness, but that’s dangerous in a way as one godbrother said “You build a bridge, and you invite people on the bridge onto the bridge, but you never take them across the bridge, you just stay on the bridge “Hey it’s pretty nice here on the bridge, we are having a good time here on the bridge.” And they don’t really go anywhere, they don’t actually come to the other side which is pure devotional service,” so there could be some utility to bridge preaching, but we have to really be careful that we bring people across the bridge to pure devotional service, that’s always the goal.

And I’m thinking of one case, I visited a family in North Carolina, the mother was my disciple and her mother- Her mother or her husband’s mother, was visiting from India, she was a pious lady and everyone in the family respected her, which was nice, and they were very eager for me to meet her. So I was speaking with her and it turned out she had impersonal ideas and I thought “Now what are my options here?” I could argue with her and I could probably defeat her philosophically, but it would spoil the mood, she wouldn’t be happy. And then her son and daughter-in-law or whatever daughter and son-in-law, they wouldn’t have been happy, and I thought “This is not going to really do any good for me to enter into a debate with her and defeat her” but I couldn’t just let it go either, so then I thought I should give her Srila Prabhupada’s books.

Iit might not be fitting for us to say someone “You are a fool and a rascal,” but we can give them Srila Prabhupada’s books and he’ll call them a fool and a rascal. And it’ll probably be good for them to hear it from Srila Prabhupada, but if depending on the circumstance, but it’s pretty unlikely that if we say that to them that it would have a good effect, but yeah, Srila Prabhupada could really get people off the platform of false ego very quickly.

The first time he met Ambarish dasa, Alfred Ford, Henry Ford’s great grandson. Prabhupada said “So you are Henry Ford’s great-grandson,” he said yes, “And so, where is Henry Ford now?” so they were “Yeah, where is Henry Ford now? Is he worm and stool? Where is Henry Ford now?” So it just took him off that bodily platform. And yeah, Mr. Sethi, Srila Prabhupada’s staunch devotee in Bombay, first meeting, he asked Mr. Sethi “What is your daily schedule?” and he went through his schedule: he gets zomby, brushes his teeth, he has a piece of toast and a cup of tea and he goes to work. And Srila Prabhupada said “Well, where in your schedule is praying to Krishna? Worshiping Krishna?” and Mr. Sethi said “Well, I don’t pray to Krishna or worship Krishna” and Srila Prabhupada said “Then what’s the difference between you and a pig?” and Mr. Sethi thought “Yeah! What is the difference? That’s a good question.” And then he agreed “Yes, I do need to add that, but for that I need satsaṅga, I need association,” and then Srila Prabhupada said “All right.”

And then, every Saturday Prabhupada sent some disciples to Mr. Sethi’s suburb. At that time he was in Goregaon, then later he moved to the Juhu scheme. And the devotees would go, they do hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and then Mr. Sethi would give them a feast. Yeah, Prabhupada really got through to him, “What’s the difference between you and a pig?” But then when Mr. Sethi agreed “Yes, I should become Krishna conscious but for that I need satsaṅga,” Prabhupada followed up and he gave him satsaṅga, to which was necessary for him to follow Prabhupada’s instruction to become Krishna conscious. So yeah, I’m personally more on the conservative side, I feel comfortable repeating what Srila Prabhupada said, preaching generally the way he preached. But as they say Phalena pariciyate “judge by the result.” And if someone has a different approach but they are also successful, then that’s okay for them, it won’t be my approach.

Just one little anecdote from Tamal Krishna Goswami. We were in Bombay and it was early, before we even got to Juhu and we were enrolling life members, so Tamal Krishna Goswami- I wasn’t with him for this one but he told me about it. So he went to meet a man named Mr. Bhatia, who was a very prominent Hindu, and he asked him to become a life member and Mr. Bhatia refused. So Tamal Krishna Goswami, he sort of became angry, and he said “You know, Mr. Bhatia, I’m glad you didn’t become a life member because we don’t want people like you as part of our society,” and he just stomped off and went to the lift. At that time there weren’t that many high-rise apartments but Mr. Bhatia was in one of them and at the top, and he went out to the lift. And then Mr. Bhatia came running after him, he said “No, no! Swamiji, Swamiji! Come back, I want to become your life member.”

So when I think about that exchange, I consider that I might have been able to make him a life member but not that way. I would have made him a life member my way, and Tamal Krishna Goswami, he made him a life member his way. So, there is individuality and Phalena pariciyate judge by the results. And then Tamal Krishna Goswami and I made a team, we were a great team. Yeah, Hare Krishna.

Devotee 5: I think one last question Maharaja. We have been stretching you a little bit.

Giriraj Swami: Sure, one more.

Devotee 6: Hare Krishna Maharaja. We heard that famous letter of Prabhupada where he talks about boiling the milk

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee 6: It was in seventy-two, so I just wanted to know what is that, boiling the milk, because I recently I heard that in seventy or seventy-one. Prabhupada started at morning maṅgala-ārati and then later in Bhāgavatam class around that. So, or is it that boiling the milk was just starting off a morning program regulus or is it that it was like Bhakti Shastri, Bhaktivi, all things. What was exactly like- Yeah, how did Prabhupada execute this boiling the milk thing? What was his plan?

Giriraj Swami: I think it was a principle. I mean, I joined in April of 1969, we had a full morning program, it’s not that Srila Prabhupada introduced something new but the idea was as he wrote maybe the same letter, maybe a different letter, but that we shouldn’t be so eager to recruit new people who are not convinced about Krishna consciousness. He said, “First they should attend the class and understand why we perform austerities. What the benefit is. Otherwise, if they are not convinced by hearing the classes or reading the books, then they might feel forced, that they are being forced to do these austerities and they won’t like it. But yeah, I think that was the idea that- As Srila Prabhupada said in another letter “It’s better to maintain a devotee than to make a new devotee” and sometimes he gave the example of Alexander the Great, that he was so busy conquering new territories that in the meantime the old territories would be lost.

So Srila Prabhupada was saying “We shouldn’t be so eager to make new devotees and then in the meantime we lose it, the old devotees, because we are not taking care of them.” So yeah I think boiling the milk means to take care of the devotees and not have the existing devotees suffer because we are so busy making new devotees or trying to make new devotees. It’s good to do both but we are talking about Srila Prabhupada’s last days and one of the things he said repeatedly towards the end was “Just maintain what I’ve given you. Don’t try to increase.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami interpreted the statement or analyze the statement, it’s like your father gives you an inheritance, and he says “Just keep what I’ve given you,” but if you keep it, it will automat- It will earn interest, so it will increase, but the foundation should be there, the basics are very important.

Devotee 5: Maharaja, you said “Phalena pariciyate,” so what do you consider as phal? Are the results that one should expect?

Giriraj Swami: Well-

Devotee 5: Because a different word is a different understanding, some people think “Just create a good impression in people,” and some people say that they should become donors, some people say they should become sixteen rounders, some people say they should become initiated, they should become committed members. So, I wanted to know what do you consider as full.

Giriraj Swami: Well, in Bombay we were doing programs at people’s homes and Srila Prabhupada said that we should do these programs only if there is some result, and the result was- Results, I should say plural. The results that Prabhupada wanted were either they should contribute financially or they should chant Hare Krishna. Otherwise, he was saying “Just going to people’s homes and, whatever, doing kirtan, giving a talk, eating prasādam. But there should be some results.” So those are the two results that he mentioned, they should take up chanting Hare Krishna or they should give some donation.

Devotee 5: Thank you Maharaja, it was very valuable for all of us to get your such amazing association today and very precise answers we got to all our questions. And we have stretched you a little bit, more than what we promised you. It is getting a late night for you. So Maharaja, on and off we would like to again connect with you and hear more from you, it is more and more enlivening and enthusiasm for all of us to get your association and we will write mail to you and stay in touch with your Maharaja. Thank you very much.

Let us thank Maharaja with one loud “Haribol”

Devotees: Haribol! [1:46:34–1:46:43 inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: Well if we are going to conclude the program now, I suggest that we end with Vaishnava praṇāma.

Let us offer our respectful obeisances unto all the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord who are just like desire trees who can fulfill the desires of everyone in our full compassion for the fallen conditioned souls [1:47:10–1:47:31 Prayers]. Hare Krishna.

Devotee 7: Hare Krishna Maharaja [1:47:38–1:48:41 inaudible]. So we just want to inform you that this year during marathon we have decided to distribute a four lakh mahā big boost from ISKCON PUNE.

Giriraj Swami: Wow, wonderful. Fantastic.

Devotee 7: We need your blessings Maharaja. Actually, this four lakh Mahabhi boost is an offering for all the four stalwart devotees who left their body. His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami Maharaja, His Grace Yashomati Nandan Prabhu, His Holiness Bhakti Madhurya Govind Swami Maharaja, His Grace Shruti Darmatahu. And, in the name of [1:48:28–1:48:33 inaudible].

So we are requesting each and every devotee who is connected to ISKCON PUNE by distributing 125 mahā big books, that comes four bucks: Bhagavad-gītā are two bucks, and two bucks Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. By that we can distribute in ISKCON PUNE, we have sixty counselors, each counselor is having minimum thirty to forty counseling under them, and by all the devotees effort we can please Srila Prabhupada by distributing 125 Bhagavad-gītā. This 125 is because next year we are celebrating Srila Prabhupada’s 125th anniversary, so we are requesting all devotees to distribute at least 125 Bhagavad-gītā. Please bless us, we need your blessings.

All of you serve Srila Prabhupada in a very intimate way and we need your blessing so that we can also serve like you have served Srila Prabhupada.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s a wonderful plan and I wish you all success. And now I’ll pray to guru and Gauranga to empower you and bless you in your efforts. I think it’s a very fitting tribute to those stalwart devotees who have left us in the last year and I think they’ll be very pleased with this service, and I wish you all success.

Devotee 7: Thank you very much Maharaja, thank you. Hare Krishna. We have some announcements for all the devotees for achieving this.