SB 1.5.28–29

Host: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Please accept my humble obeisances to your lotus feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. We are so happy to have His Holiness with us today. You’re highly welcome. We shall put the verse on the screen, then you can start.

Giriraj Swami: I was thinking that before I speak, I’ll just sing the maṅgala-ācaraṇa prayers.

Host: Okay. Yes, Maharaja. There’s no problem.

Giriraj Swami: Although we did hear Srila Prabhupada sing it.

Host: Yeah, it’s okay. As you wish.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, thank you.

[Prayers]

So, before I read today’s verse, I will leave you for a minute, and I’ll be right back. Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: So, today’s verse is very much connected with the previous verse. Srila Prabhupada did speak on this verse, today’s verse, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.5.29, and he connected it very much to the previous verse. So, we will also read that, and the two verses together describe the relationship between the disciple and the spiritual master. As Srila Prabhupada said, “When the male is potent and the female is fertile, then conception takes place, and a child is born. And in the same way, when the spiritual master is bona fide and the disciple is genuine, bhakti takes birth, transcendental knowledge.”

So, these two verses illustrate a bona fide spiritual master and the genuine disciple.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

TEXT 28

itthaṁ śarat-prāvṛṣikāv ṛtū harer

viśṛṇvato me ‘nusavaṁ yaśo ‘malam

saṅkīrtyamānaṁ munibhir mahātmabhir

bhaktiḥ pravṛttātma-rajas-tamopahā

TRANSLATION

Thus during two seasons — the rainy season and autumn — I had the opportunity to hear these great-souled sages constantly chant the unadulterated glories of the Lord Hari. As the flow of my devotional service began, the coverings of the modes of passion and ignorance vanished.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Transcendental loving service for the Supreme Lord is the natural inclination of every living being.

COMMENT

Yes, this is confirmed in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, in different places. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has declared, jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa, that the constitutional position of the living entity is that he is the eternal servant of Krishna. And as also quoted in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema ‘sādhya’ kabhu naya, that love for Krishna is eternally established within the heart. It is not something to be gained from any other source. And by association with good devotees, hearing and chanting about Krishna, that dormant love is awakened.

PURPORT (continued)

Transcendental loving service for the Supreme Lord is the natural inclination of every living being. The instinct is dormant in everyone, but due to the association of material nature the modes of passion and ignorance cover this from time immemorial. If, by the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees of the Lord, a living being becomes fortunate enough to associate with the unadulterated devotees of the Lord and gets a chance to hear the unadulterated glories of the Lord, certainly the flow of devotional service takes place like the flow of a river.

COMMENT

So, throughout Srila Prabhupada’s purports, he indirectly refers to verses without mentioning them. But practically everything that Srila Prabhupada writes in his purports are a combination of his own realization, and also the statements of scripture in other places. So, can we get the verse and purport back?

So, here, he is paraphrasing, “By the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees of the Lord, a living being becomes fortunate enough to associate with the unadulterated devotees of the Lord, and certainly the flow of devotional service takes place.” So, here, Srila Prabhupada words echo the statement of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta,

brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

Brahmāṇḍa bhramite, that means living entities wandering in different planetary systems in the universe. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Bhāgyavān means fortunate. A fortunate living entity. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya, by the mercy of guru and Krishna, bhakti-latā-bīja, one receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.

And in commenting on these verses in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Srila Prabhupada says that Krishna, who is in the heart of every living entity, understands the sincerity of a living entity. And if He sees that a living entity is sincere, He arranges for that person to get the association of devotees. And then, he adds that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is meant to give fortunate souls the association of devotees.

So, we see this principle enacted in the life of Narada Muni, who at the time, of course, was not the great sage Narada Muni, but he was the son of a maidservant who was serving great souls. As it’s mentioned here, mahatma, great souls, and munis, thoughtful spiritual philosophers. And he got the opportunity to take the remnants of their foodstuffs, and to hear them speak of the unadulterated glories of the Lord. And by serving them and by taking the remnants of their foodstuffs and by hearing them speak the glories of the Lord, this young boy, simple son of a maidservant to the great souls, he got the opportunity to become the great saint, Narada Muni. So, can we see the verse again?

PURPORT (continued)

If, by the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees of the Lord, a living being becomes fortunate enough to associate with the unadulterated devotees of the Lord and gets a chance to hear the unadulterated glories of the Lord, certainly the flow of devotional service takes place like the flow of a river.

COMMENT

There’s also a beautiful verse in the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, [Unintelligible 00:45:49], and it describes that flow of the talks of the saintly persons.

PURPORT (continued)

As the river flows on till she reaches the sea, similarly pure devotional service flows by the association of pure devotees till it reaches the ultimate goal, namely, transcendental love of God.

COMMENT

And the same point is made in the section of Caitanya-caritāmṛta that describes the bhakti-latā bīja, that mālī hañā, when one receives the seed, one should become a mālī, a gardener, and plant the seed in his heart, and water the seed. And what is watering? It’s chanting and hearing about Krishna. One should water the seed. But one should also take care that no weeds sprout up around the devotional creeper. And Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that sometimes these weeds very closely resemble the devotional creeper. And so, we as devotees or aspiring devotees, always have to take care to make sure that the watering, which is meant to nourish pure devotional service, does not water weeds which are material desires.

So, it’s a subtle point, and it’s important, therefore, that we always have association with advanced devotees, or pure devotees, whom we can consult, and who can advise us whether the watering is actually nourishing the devotional creeper, or whether it might be nourishing the weeds of material desires. But that creeper will grow, as described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and pierce the coverings of the universe, and take shelter at the lotus feet of Krishna in the spiritual sky, and bear the fruit of love of Godhead, which is exactly what this purport says. So, if we can see the verse again, we will find the exact same point.

PURPORT (continued)

As the river flows on till she reaches the sea, similarly pure devotional service flows by the association of pure devotees till it reaches the ultimate goal, namely, transcendental love of God. Such a flow of devotional service cannot stop. On the contrary, it increases more and more without limitation. The flow of devotional service is so potent that any onlooker also becomes liberated from the influence of the modes of passion and ignorance.

COMMENT

So, here, Srila Prabhupada is referring to the effect that the young Narada, as an onlooker, a young boy who just happened to, in a way, be there by chance, he was an onlooker, but the flow of devotional service is so potent that any onlooker also becomes liberated from the influence of the modes of passion and ignorance, which was the statement of Narada.

PURPORT (continued)

These two qualities of nature are thus removed, and the living being is liberated, being situated in his original position.

COMMENT

So, this is the process of liberation, which we all want and desire and need, and that is to hear the unadulterated glories of the Lord from the unadulterated devotees of the Lord. It’s so potent. And just that hearing makes one pious, as stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter,

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

that just by hearing talks of Krishna, one becomes transcendentally pious. So, now back to the verse, next verse.

TEXT 29

tasyaivaṁ me ‘nuraktasya

praśritasya hatainasaḥ

śraddadhānasya bālasya

dāntasyānucarasya ca

TRANSLATION

I was very much attached to those sages. I was gentle in behavior, and all my sins were eradicated in their service. In my heart I had strong faith in them. I had subjugated the senses, and I was strictly following them with body and mind.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

These are the necessary qualifications of a prospective candidate who can expect to be elevated to the position of a pure unadulterated devotee. Such a candidate must always seek the association of pure devotees.

COMMENT

In fact, this verse and purport give a complete prescription for us, devotees or aspiring devotees, how we can achieve the position of pure devotional service. So, we should take note very carefully.

PURPORT (continued)

Such a candidate must always seek the association of pure devotees. One should not be misled by a pseudodevotee.

COMMENT

So, in the previous verse, the great sages were described as mahātmabhir, mahatmas, great souls, and munibhir, thoughtful philosophers. So, who is a mahatma? The Bhagavad-gītā describes the mahatma,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ

Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, after many births and deaths, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, one who is actually wise, surrenders to Krishna, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, understanding that Krishna, or Vasudeva, is the supreme cause of all causes. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, such a great soul is very rare.

So, this is the type of mahatma that we have to find. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, the mahatmas has taken shelter of the divine energy, the spiritual energy, who’s personified as Srimati Radharani, and they are always engaged in chanting and hearing the glories of the Lord.

PURPORT (continued)

Such a candidate must always seek the association of pure devotees. One should not be misled by a pseudodevotee.

COMMENT

And as we discuss the qualities of pure devotees, mahatmas, we can distinguish between them and pretenders. ‘He’ means the candidate.

PURPORT (continued)

He himself must be plain and gentle to receive the instructions of such a pure devotee.

COMMENT

So, the Sanskrit here really contains very important words. Anuraktasya, he was very attached to them. So, we should be attached to the spiritual master, to the sadhus. And praśritasya, he was very obedient. So, yes, one must be obedient to the spiritual master. In fact, speaking on this verse, Srila Prabhupada says that to disobey the order of the spiritual master is an offense against the holy name.

It’s mentioned, guror avajñā, to disobey the orders of the spiritual master. And sometimes it’s said to disobey the orders of the spiritual master and consider him an ordinary human being. If one considers the spiritual master to be an ordinary human being, he’ll think, Well, why do I have to follow his instructions? I have my own ideas.

Śraddadhānasya. Śrāddha, faith and attraction, ādau śraddhā. Srila Rupa Gosvami describes the different stages of devotional service, and first is śraddhā, ādau śraddhā, then tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo, associate with devotees, and ‘tha bhajana-kriyā, engage in devotional service. So, this pattern described by Srila Rupa Gosvami, ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo ‘tha bhajana-kriyā, was followed by our own Narada Muni as a child. So, coming back to the purport.

PURPORT (continued)

He himself must be plain and gentle to receive the instructions of such a pure devotee. A pure devotee is a completely surrendered soul unto the Personality of Godhead. He knows the Personality of Godhead as the supreme proprietor and all others as His servitors. And by the association of pure devotees only, one can get rid of all sins accumulated by mundane association.

COMMENT

Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, he glorifies pure devotees, and he says that by repeated bathing in the Ganges, one becomes purified of sins. Or just by seeing the sadhu or the Vaishnava, Vaishnava Thakura, just by singing the Vaishnava Thakura, one is immediately cleansed of all sins. And in order to engage in devotional service, we must be free from sins. The four pillars of sinful life are meat-eating, intoxication, illicit sex, and gambling. And therefore, Srila Prabhupada has strictly prohibited these sinful activities in his disciples and followers.

And it’s also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that one must be free from sins in order to engage in devotional service. But that becoming free from sins can take place by associating with pure devotees.

PURPORT (continued)

A neophyte devotee must faithfully serve the pure devotee, and he should be very much obedient and strictly follow the instructions. These are the signs of a devotee who is determined to achieve success even in the existing duration of life.

COMMENT

And we should be determined to achieve success in this very lifetime, because if we don’t, we don’t know where we will go or what will become of us. Of course, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna does say that there is no loss or diminution in devotional service. So, in that sense, as long as we don’t commit any serious offenses, we can expect to continue in our next life. But why should we wait for the next life to attain perfection? We should be determined to achieve success even in the present lifetime.

And it is certainly possible, we just have to approach devotional service, as recommended by Srila Rupa Gosvami in his Upadeśāmṛta, The Nectar of Instruction, utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Utsāhān means enthusiasm. We must be enthusiastic to progress in devotional service. Actually, without enthusiasm, one cannot be successful in any activity. So, that’s the first one, utsāhān, enthusiasm. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt. Dhairyāt means patience. We should also be patient. If we don’t feel that we’re successful right away, we shouldn’t give up, but we should be patient and depend on the mercy of the Lord and expect the mercy of the Lord.

And these two qualities; patience and enthusiasm, are both required. Srila Prabhupada said that enthusiasm without patience can lead to a desire to control, and patience without enthusiasm can lead to lethargy, laziness. So, we need both of these. And if we approach devotional service, bhakti-yoga, with enthusiasm and patience, associating with pure devotees, chanting and hearing the glories of the Lord, and strictly following the orders of the spiritual master, being attached to the spiritual master and faithful to the spiritual master and obedient to the spiritual master, one can achieve complete success even in this very lifetime. That is our hope, and that is our expectation. If we follow this process, we can expect to achieve that glorious result by the mercy of Krishna and the paramparā and the devotees. Hare Krishna.

So, thank you all for joining us for this discussion. I would request the participants on Zoom to put on your cameras so I can see your moon-like faces. And if any of the participants have any questions or comments, they can ask. Again, I’ll take leave for a minute. In the meantime, you can collect your thoughts and see if you have any questions or comments.

Host: Yes, Maharaja. Please, if you have questions, kindly raise your hand, or you can write it on the chat room. So, we can call you one after the other.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Welcome back. I have one question from the previous verse. When Prabhupada said in the purport that even the onlookers, they get liberated when they associate with devotees, the onlookers.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Host: So, my question is, when we go on hari-nāma on the streets, the onlookers, they see devotees, around the world. They don’t seem to be liberated to join the devotional service.

Giriraj Swami: Well, they are freed from sins, but the problem is that they. . . Okay, Narada Muni, as an onlooker, he was freed from sins, but he took shelter of the sadhus or the Bhaktivedantas, and he followed their instructions. And so, he remained free from sins, and beyond that, he advanced in devotional service. But there’s immense benefit for people who just, as onlookers, see the hari-nāma party, an immense benefit. And even if it doesn’t bear fruit immediately, but it will, in due course of their fruit.

So, yeah, it’s really very good how we, devotees, go out on hari-nāma. In one talk, Srila Prabhupada was emphasizing how important it is that devotees go out to give people an opportunity to hear. So, that’s a very, very important activity that we go out, and it gives the onlookers great benefit.

As Srila Prabhupada said, the hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana on the streets, it will knock on the doors of the hearts of the people.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. We have a question on the chatroom. Jai Chaitanya is asking, “In the course of your lecture, you mentioned the relationship between patience and enthusiasm.” So, he is asking, “What is the difference between confidence and determination, in relation to patience and enthusiasm?” Confidence and determination, in relation to patience and enthusiasm, what is the difference?

Giriraj Swami: They’re all necessary, but I would say confidence increases both enthusiasm and patience, because if you’re confident that you’re going to make it, you’ll be enthusiastic, Well, I’m actually going to make it. And you’ll also be patient, because, Okay, I’m going to make it. Maybe not this second or this minute, but I am going to make it. So, I’ll wait until that fortunate moment comes. And determination, yeah, we have to be determined. We have to be determined that, “In this very lifetime, I will be successful.” And if we have that determination and we’re enthusiastic and patient and follow the prescribed methods, then we will be successful.

In his purport in the Upadeśāmṛta, to utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, confidence, Srila Prabhupada writes that devotional service is so pure and powerful that one is dragged to ultimate success. So, that’s very encouraging.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. Sydney Knoll says, “I have lots of enthusiasm, not so much patience. Please advise.”

Giriraj Swami: Wait, who says?

Host: Sydney Knoll.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, Sydney.

Host: Yeah, he has a lot of enthusiasm, he doesn’t have patience, and you should advise.

Giriraj Swami: Where is Sydney? Can I see Sydney?

Host: Sydney, can you unmute yourself, please?

Sydney Knoll: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Sydney Knoll: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Nice to see you.

Sydney Knoll: Nice to see you.

Giriraj Swami: So, you have enthusiasm but not much patience. And can you ascertain the reason for your lack of patience?

Sydney Knoll: I guess I’m excited to learn more, and I get very disappointed with myself if I don’t meet my own goals. So, I’ve got a lack of patience, and maybe I’m trying to go too fast, or not taking time, or something like that.

Giriraj Swami: Well, it’s good that you’re so enthusiastic, but as they say, Rome wasn’t built in a day. So, your complete devotional character also will not be built in a day. And so, you have to be patient. But are you confident that in the end you’ll be successful?

Sydney Knoll: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: So then, you don’t need to be impatient. It will come.

Sydney Knoll: Thank you. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Maharaja, our next question is from Sahadeva Prabhu from Gitanagar. Sahadeva, please.

Sahadeva dasa: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Sahadeva dasa: Thank you very much for giving us your divine association again.

Giriraj Swami: Jaya!

Devotee: My question is from the previous verse, which is 1.5.28, because you were saying they are very much connected to each other. And in the third sentence, Srila Prabhupada writes, “If, by the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees of the Lord, a living being becomes fortunate enough to associate with the unadulterated devotees of the Lord.” So, my question here is, Srila Prabhupada used ‘if’ instead of ‘when,’ which means there is a condition. So, my question is, what causes the Lord and the great-souled devotees to shower their grace on a particular person. I needed so badly this lifetime. I want to go home this lifetime. I don’t want to procrastinate. What do I have to do to gain the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees? That’s my question. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I took the ‘if’ in a different way. So, “If, by the grace of the Lord and the great-souled devotees of the Lord, a living being becomes fortunate enough to associate with the unadulterated devotees,” I took that as the ‘if.’ If the living being is fortunate to associate with great-souled devotees. But if he is fortunate enough to associate with unadulterated devotees, then certainly, the flow of devotional service takes place like the flow of a river. So, I don’t think you have to worry. The great-souled devotees, by nature, are merciful, they’re not going to withhold their mercy from you. So, the ‘if’ means if you’re fortunate enough to get their association. But if you are fortunate enough to get their association, then certainly, the flow of devotional service takes place like the flow of a river. So, I think you’re safe.

Sahadeva dasa: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Any other questions or comments?

Host: Yes, Maharaja, I have one more question from the verse of today, the current verse, where Prabhupada said one should not be misled by a pseudodevotee. This word pseudodevotee, when we joined the temple or joined the Krishna service, we don’t really know who is a pseudodevotee and we associate with everybody. So, how does a new bhakta distinguish a pseudodevotee and an advanced devotee for his own spiritual progress?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I think Srila Prabhupada’s intention here is that there are pseudodevotees outside of ISKCON, and one should not be misled by them. Now, there is a possibility that there could be a pseudodevotee in ISKCON, but I would say the proportion of pseudodevotees in ISKCON, as compared with genuine devotees, is very small. And yesterday, I had a very nice conversation with one of my godbrothers in which he quoted Srila Prabhupada saying that we don’t need a police force in ISKCON because Krishna Himself will arrange for the pretenders to be exposed.

Host: [laughter] That’s a good one. Beautiful.

Giriraj Swami: So, I think we can take for granted that the devotees of ISKCON are genuine, and that the warning about pseudodevotees is for pretenders outside of ISKCON.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: But one thing I could say, that we, as individuals, can think that we are pretenders. In fact, that’s healthy. [laughter] My dear godbrother Bhurijana dasa, he said. . . Because that happens, when you make an effort to chant japa attentively, you become aware of your weaknesses and failings. So, he said whenever anyone criticizes him or blames him or finds fault with him, he always thinks that they’re underestimating his faults. That if they knew what he was really like, they would have much worse things to say about him.

So, that way, we, as humble, introspective devotees, can feel that we’re pretenders or pseudodevotees, but we shouldn’t see the others as pseudodevotees. In ISKCON, they’re the real deal.

Host: In the last line of the purport of today, Prabhupada also mentioned that the devotees should be very much obedient and strictly follow the instructions. So, my question is, in the modern world, how do we distinguish when one is being used like in the olden days like a slave or being abused. He said we must be strictly obedient. What happens to the free will of the individual?

Giriraj Swami: Being obedient means obedient to the spiritual master. It doesn’t mean obedient to materialistic people. But yes, we should be obedient to the spiritual master, to the saintly persons. And in fact, Srila Prabhupada instructed us to address one another as prabhu. Prabhu means master. And Srila Prabhupada said, “How can the master be disobeyed?” So, that’s good amongst devotees, to be obedient, but it doesn’t mean we have to be obedient to materialistic people. A lot of parents, they don’t want their children to join, they don’t want their children to become Krishna conscious, but we don’t have to be obedient to them.

And so, there’s a really important verse in the Fifth Canto, gurur na sa syāt, pitā na sā syāt, that no one should become a guru, no one should become a father, no one should become a mother, no one should become a husband, no one should become a superior relative unless one can deliver one’s dependence from the repetition of birth and death. And in the purport, Srila Prabhupada says that if one is not able to do that, then one is not a real guru, one is not a real father, one is not a real mother, one is not a real husband. And then, he gives examples in the purport. For example, if the father is attacked, the son should defend the father from the attacker. But when Hiranyakasipu was attacked by Nṛsiṁhadeva, Prahlada didn’t make any effort to protect his father, because he wasn’t a real father, because he wasn’t delivering him from the repetition of birth and death.

And there are many examples. It’s an offense, as we just discussed, to disobey the orders of the guru. But when Shukracharya instructed Bali Maharaja not to give everything to Krishna, to Vamanadeva, Bali Maharaja disobeyed him. But it wasn’t a fault because he wasn’t a real guru, because he wasn’t delivering his dependent from the repetition of birth and death.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Host: You had mentioned that a master should not be disobeyed, the guru. So, my question is, when we join devotional service, they call us bhakta, but we see in the scripture that bhakta is the pure devotee of Krishna. Then, when we get initiation, they add prabhu, no more bhakta. So, master or bhakta, which one is higher to really be used to address a devotee.

Giriraj Swami: Bhakta is higher. [laughter] 

Host: So, why do we give it to a non-initiate when they join the temple, bhakta and bhaktin? After initiation, we withdraw it and give them prabhu.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, in that context, bhakta and bhaktin means a beginner, but in an absolute sense, bhakta is a very high designation, devotee. But in that context, a new person would be called bhakta so and so, or bhaktin so and so. And then, when they’re initiated, yeah, we call them prabhu, which is good because they are masters, they are prabhus. We’re the servants of the Vaishnavas, the Vaishnavas are prabhus.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. Sahadeva, your hand is still up. Do you have more questions?

Sahadeva dasa: Yes. Well, I see there are seventy-three or so participants. So, I do not want to prevent others from asking questions.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I agree. I think we should let others ask, and then I can come back to you if in the meantime your question hasn’t been answered.

Sahadeva dasa: Okay. My question, Maharaja, I don’t think it’s particularly in relation to the text, but I believe that the way Srila Prabhupada designed ISKCON is so scientific that everything has purpose. And so, men are addressed as prabhus, and women are addressed as mothers. But I see in today’s ISKCON, mostly, women are oftentimes addressed as prabhus, which to me is improper. And I don’t know if you have anything to say about that because I think Srila Prabhupada expected us to address every woman, other than our wife, as mothers, so that we keep that in our minds because this world is understood to be called as maithunya-agara, everybody is obsessed with sex. But if you address a woman, other than your wife, as a mother, then you will understand, “This is somebody I cannot touch.” But in today’s ISKCON, we often address women as prabhus. So, I don’t think it’s proper, but I don’t know if you have anything to say about that. Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Well, okay. That’s true, you wouldn’t touch your mother. Would you touch your master? If your master is a woman, would you touch your master?

Devotee: Unfortunately, it’s very common in the material world. Yes, unfortunately.

Giriraj Swami: Well, but we’re not in the material world. We’re talking about ISKCON. I don’t really have a problem. I mean, Mataji is more usual, but I don’t have a problem with addressing a woman as prabhu. I don’t have that ego that a woman can’t be my prabhu. Is that alright, Sahadeva?

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. Yes, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I was in Vrindavan, I think we were in Vrindavan. I was with His Holiness Rtadhvaja Swami a few years ago, and there were women in the audience. It was at the Yamuna Devi samadhi, but it was outdoors in Vrindavan. And before he began speaking, he addressed the ladies as Mataji, prabhu, devi. Whatever will make you happy.

Host: Gopīs.

Giriraj Swami: Well, not gopīs because in the early days of ISKCON, we used to call the ladies gopīs, but Srila Prabhupada said it wasn’t proper because the gopīs are very elevated, but we did, in the early days, we used to call the ladies gopīs. Sahadeva, I see that you think very deeply about many important subjects.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. I try.

Giriraj Swami: And I really feel happy when I joined the Nigerian saṅga because I have such fond memories of when I visited Nigeria. It was one of the best times of my whole Krishna consciousness. When I went to Nigeria to collect for Juhu. Hare Krishna.

Host: Maharaja, there is a comment in the translation, that Narada Muni was mentioning that he was gentle in behavior and all his sins were eradicated in their service. So, this brings me to a question that many devotees are also in service of their spiritual masters for many years. Yet, they are not gentle in behavior, neither are they attached to the guru, nor that they have so much faith in the guru. But Narada Muni just mentioned the qualities he developed by associating with these Vedantas. So, what is happening? Does it mean our gurus are not as strong as them, or because we are in Kali-yuga, we don’t have such faith that Narada Muni has, and we’re not even gentle in behavior, we are all ruffians, mafias, for example.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Host: What is happening? Anybody who is given a little authority in the movement becomes a mafia, where we are not gentle in behavior.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah. Even Srila Prabhupada. . . This is addressing the question about the potency of the guru. Even Srila Prabhupada had disciples who were not gentle. So, we can’t say that if the disciple is not gentle it’s because the guru is not powerful enough. But Srila Prabhupada would dovetail their rough natures in devotional service. His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami used to say that Srila Prabhupada never discriminated against a devotee on the basis of what mode he was in. But whatever mode he was in, Srila Prabhupada would engage him or her.

So, yeah, we should have that liberal attitude. But at the same time, we should be gentle, at least with other devotees. Srila Prabhupada’s female disciples would go out to distribute books, and in the course of book distribution, they would have to be quite forward with the people they approached, including the men. But when they came back to the temple, they were supposed to be very reserved with the men. And so, I think Srila Prabhupada said. . . Anyway, I’m not remembering it. It was a phrase. Something like a lion on the chase. . . How does that go? A lion on the chase and something at home. . .

Devotees: A lamb.

Giriraj Swami: A lamb at home, that’s it. A lion on the chase and a lamb at home. So, that was how Srila Prabhupada advised his lady book distributors. So, for service, we can be like a lion, but at home, we should be like gentle lambs.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. We have a question from Kavikarnapura Prabhu. Kavikarnapura, please.

Kavikarnapura dasa: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Thank you very much for the wonderful lecture, Maharaja, for giving your time. So, my question is regarding to the. . . you mentioned about pseudodevotee or pretender. So, going deep into me, I see that most of the time when I do my devotional service in the presence of devotees, I tend to pretend a lot to be a very wonderful devotee. So, I want to know whether pretending to be a nice devotee in the association of devotees. . . but in my heart I know that I’m not what I’m showing others. So, how to really be that devotee I’m trying to present myself to be, when I’m not?

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada said that there’s a difference between Krishna consciousness and the material world, that in the material world, you have to have the qualification first. Whereas in Krishna consciousness, you act as if you had the qualification, and then the qualification follows. So, just keep trying. I mean, I lived in India for thirty years, and I never picked up all these phrases that I’ve learned in America, but one that I learned in America is, “Fake it until you make it.”

Host: Devotees will like that one, Maharaja. I’m going to be faking it now to be a pure devotee. [laughter] 

Giriraj Swami: And another thing, I don’t know how bona fide it is, but there was an entertainer in America, they had circuses, Barnum & Bailey Circus. So, P.T. Barnum, he said the main thing in the entertainment industry is sincerity. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.

Host: That’s interesting.

Giriraj Swami: So, Chandni Doshi, she’s been raising her hand for a while.

Host: Please unmute yourself and ask your question, please.

Chandni Doshi: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Chandni Doshi: Thank you for the class, Guru Maharaja, it was very nice. I had two questions. I’ll ask one, and if you like, I can ask the other one too. So, in verse 1.5.28, it mentions about being covered by the modes of passion and ignorance. So, my question was that when somebody is in the mood of goodness, does that mean that they will take up devotional service, or it can be that a person in mode of goodness does not take devotional service? Where does the mood of goodness come in?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada gave the example of dry grass and damp grass and wet grass. If a spark falls on dry grass, it will likely catch fire. If it falls on moist grass, it might or might not. And if it falls on wet grass, it likely will not catch fire. So, the mode of goodness is compared to the dry grass, and that spark of Krishna consciousness will very likely ignite the dry grass or the person in the mode of goodness. And mode of passion, less so, and mode of ignorance even more unlikely, but still possible.

Chandni Doshi: Thank you, Guru Maharaja. Is it okay to ask the second question?

Host: Yes, please.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Chandni Doshi: So, it’s on verse 1.5.29. I wanted to ask that it was mentioned that a devotee, to go back home, back to Godhead, he needs to be enthusiastic, patient, and follow the instructions of the spiritual master, hear and chant. I was wondering if somebody takes to this process or if somebody comes across Krishna consciousness in the last stage of his life and he or she takes this process very seriously towards the last stage of life, can they still go back home, back to Godhead, even though it's towards the end of their life?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. In one purport in the Bhagavad-gītā. . . Because yes, generally, it’s better to start early. As Prahlada Maharaja says kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha, it should begin from the tender age of childhood. But in this purport in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says that again, the Krishna consciousness is so pure and potent that even a late beginner can achieve ultimate success.

Chandni Doshi: Thank you, Guru Maharaja. Thanks a lot. Hare Krishna.

Host: Any other questions please? No hand is up. If you have a question, kindly unmute and ask your question. Maharaja, may we ask you how long do we have?

Giriraj Swami: Death may come at any moment, we don’t know how long we have.

Host: [laughter] Okay. So, if anyone has a question, please continue asking questions. Maharaja is here with us for maybe four, five hours. Sahadeva Prabhu has more questions. Sahadeva, please.

Sahadeva dasa: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Thank you again. Srila Prabhupada is so merciful that the way he designed ISKCON, he designed in such a way that even if one should lose his father, he still has lots of uncles to depend on.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that’s true.

Devotee: So, somebody like me, I’m very grateful to Srila Prabhupada that even though my father is no longer physically here with me, but I have somebody like you as an uncle I can defend on. So, I say thank you to Srila Prabhupada, and thank you to all of you.

Now, my question has to do with, Srila Prabhupada in the purport used the word, ‘pure devotees.’ And when you started commenting on that, you used the word ‘good devotees.’ In other words, lots of us trying to be devotees are not pure devotees yet. Yet, we go out to do hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and when these onlookers see us performing saṅkīrtana, they’re supposed to benefit from it, which you’ve already indicated. Now, somebody else spoke on this platform, who indicated that unless one is a pure and advanced devotee, he is not allowed to speak on Bhāgavatam.

Now, this program we have is a series of Bhāgavatam classes with you, and it’s not so easy to have very advanced devotees speak on the Bhāgavatam every single day. And so, whoever is willing to speak on Bhāgavatam is given the opportunity to speak. But if we should go by what this advanced devotee said, then at some point, we wouldn’t have anybody speak on Bhāgavatam. So, my question is, should devotees be encouraged to practice spiritual life, even though they may not be up to the level of doing certain things like speaking Bhāgavatam? But as long as they are willing and trying to speak, they are encouraged to speak the Bhāgavatam. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. I mean, everyone should speak about Krishna. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ, we hear and we repeat what we’ve heard. And as long as we repeat what we’ve heard and add to it some personal realization or examples, then it will be bona fide. Like Srila Prabhupada said, practice makes perfect. So, if you practice speaking, you’ll become more and more perfect in speaking. So, we want devotees to speak, as long as they don’t speculate or concoct or imagine. And speaking is very powerful. Srila Prabhupada said that speaking for half an hour is equal to reading for two hours.

Host: Wow.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, it’s very powerful. So, we should give devotees a chance to speak.

Sahadeva dasa: Thank you, Maharaja.

Host: Maharaja, I have one controversial question. I will beg His Holiness to help me clarify this question. I asked it before, but I’m still not just satisfied with the answers I got. It’s about the Guru coming back to save a disciple. Because in one Bhāgavatam of Prabhupada, he said the Guru will not go back to Krishna if one of his disciples does not attain perfection. So, I’ve been asking, what happens if the Guru comes back to save the disciple, and the disciple has already become a Guru, and the former disciple now has to initiate this Guru. So, who is the Guru and who saves who?

Giriraj Swami: Well, yes, it is a fact that when a spiritual master takes responsibility for a disciple, he commits himself to coming back until the disciple is delivered. Now, there is a subtle question about this, whether it means that the guru has to personally come back, or he just has to make sure that the disciple has the guidance that he requires to go back to Godhead.

And after Srila Prabhupada left, Tamal Krishna Goswami and I and a couple of other disciples of Srila Prabhupada went to Srila Prabhupada’s learned godbrother Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja to ask this question. And initially, Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that it doesn’t mean that the guru has to come back personally, but he just has to make sure that there are instructors who are there to guide his disciples until they go back home, back to Godhead.

But Tamal Krishna Goswami, in his staunch adherence to Srila Prabhupada, pressed Srila Sridhar Maharaja, “Well, what if we want only Srila Prabhupada?” And then, Srila Sridhar Maharaja presented a hypothetical conversation between Krishna and Srila Prabhupada in the spiritual world. And in this conversation, Srila Prabhupada says to Krishna, “My disciples are asking for me,” and Krishna says, ”You don’t have to go personally. I’ll arrange for someone to guide them.” And then, Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, they won’t accept anyone else. They want only me.” And then, Krishna said, “Well, all right, if that’s the case and if you want to go, then you can go personally.”

So, that was how he presented it. But the other way of looking at it is that we should finish up in this lifetime, as stated at the end of the purport. So, the guru doesn’t have to come back. You may know the story of Bilvamangala Thakura, who in his previous life, was very advanced. He came to the stage of bhāva bhakti. But somehow, he took birth again, and he became very attached to a prostitute. Some of you might know the story.

But anyway, one night, it was actually the night of the death of his father. So, he was doing the ceremonies, but he was so attached to this prostitute, he was telling the priest, “Hurry up! Hurry up! Finish!” Because he wanted to go to the prostitute. And there were raging storms that night, and he had to cross a raging river. And somehow, I don’t know, I guess he caught a dead body or maybe a piece of wood. Somehow, he crossed the river, and then he went to the prostitute’s house. And it was so late and the weather was so bad, that she assumed that he would not be coming.

So, she closed the gate and locked up everything. So, Bilvamangala Thakura had to get over the wall. I think he picked up a dead snake and he used it as a rope to scale the wall. And then eventually, he came to her, and she said, “Oh, Bilvamangala, you’ve come tonight. I didn’t expect you.” And then, she said, “If you had as much attachment for Krishna as you have for me, it would be much better for you.” And those words of the prostitute went deep into his heart, and he immediately left her and set out for Vrindavan to find Krishna.

Now, it is said that Bilvamangala Thakura’s spiritual master from his previous life spoke through the prostitute. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, in urging his disciples to finish up in this very lifetime and go back home, back to Godhead, he told them, “Don’t make me come back into the house of a prostitute to reclaim you. Finish up in this very lifetime.” So, we have that opportunity, and in a way, it’s an obligation. We don’t want to take advantage of the spiritual master’s promise to come back, but we want to save him from having to come back for us.

And we should also help our godbrothers and godsisters to go back to Godhead in this very lifetime. Also, for their benefit, of course, and also so that their spiritual master and our spiritual master doesn’t have to come back again.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. And we have the last question from Nitika Parmar. Nitika Parmar, please unmute and ask your question.

Nitika Parmar: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Daṇḍavat-praṇāmās. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

Giriraj Swami: Jaya!

Nitika Parmar: Maharaja, I just had a quick question, just for clarification. Srila Prabhupada has written in his books that if a devotee does not finish his or her devotional career in this lifetime, he or she can get a birth in the next lifetime to take birth in the family of an aristocrat or a brahman. But is there any possibility that a devotee can actually fall into the impersonal brahman? If his or her devotional service becomes offensive in any way in this lifetime and they commit a vaiṣṇava-aparādha, then what is the next future for the next lifetime? Do they fall from a personal realization to an immersed impersonal realization, or do they continue to take birth in an aristocratic or a brahman family?

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s a good question. But the two are not mutually exclusive, because one can still take birth in a family of brahmans or an aristocratic family and have an impersonal conception. But higher than those two births, yes, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo ‘bhijāyate, is that one can take birth in a family of devotees, yogis. And as it said, one will be attracted to the principles of yoga from one’s previous life, even without desiring it. And in The Nectar of Devotion, Srila Rupa Gosvami says that generally, devotional service is a continuation from the previous life. And especially for someone who has a natural taste for hearing and chanting about Krishna, it’s to be understood that he had engaged in devotional service in his previous life, but somehow did not attain perfection. And Srila Prabhupada adds, “Usually due to committing some offense.”

But now that person is given a chance to continue from where he or she left off. So, there’s no loss or diminution. And even a little advancement saves one from the most dangerous fear. Yeah, that’s a good question.

Devotee: Thank you so much, Maharaja.

Host: Thank you, Maharaja. We have one more hand up. I don’t know if you are tired, but you need to take a rest. We don’t want to bother you so much.

Giriraj Swami: No, I’ll take one more.

Host: Okay, Sahadeva, please.

Sahadeva dasa: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Well, thank you for giving us much time of your busy-schedule life. My question has to do with some of the regulations of the GBC. Those of you who are direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada, you worshiped him as scriptures recommend that we worship the guru. In today’s ISKCON, those of us who are not direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada, we have Srila Prabhupada’s disciples as our gurus, but we are not, somehow, allowed to worship our gurus as Srila Prabhupada’s disciples worshiped Srila Prabhupada.

A crude example is when we do ārati on the altar, the understanding is that you offer the paraphernalia to your guru, and your guru passes on and on, on and on, till it gets to Krishna. But in most temples, devotees are refrained from keeping the Deity of their guru on the altar. Some places, they are asked to put the Deity of the living guru on a shelf or something. In the purport, Narada Muni was explaining that in his heart, he had so much faith in the sages. So, if we do not have the faith that our gurus are as good as Srila Prabhupada in the sense of being able to take us back home, back to Godhead, it weakens our faith. So, why would the GBC prevent us, as second generation of ISKCON, keeping our gurus on the altar, at least for offering the ārati.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I mean, that’s a good question. What I understand, the general procedure is that when a disciple of one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples offers bhoga and offers ārati, he places the picture of his guru on the altar. And that’s proper because if you’re a grand disciple, we don’t approach Srila Prabhupada directly, but we approach him through our spiritual master. So, that’s proper.

But then, after the offering and the ārati, we take the picture down because we want to preserve Srila Prabhupada’s position as the founder acharya. It’s not necessarily even a question of advancement, but he’s the founder acharya for everyone in ISKCON, now and forever in the future. And so, to preserve his position as the founder acharya and to avoid factions amongst disciples of different gurus, we removed the picture after the offering, which is fine. I think it’s all perfect.

Devotee: Thank you very much for the answer, Maharaja. I love it. Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. Good. Alright, well, if we’ve come to the end of our meeting, I suggest. . .

Host: Yes, Maharaja. We’ve come to the end, and we thank you so much for coming to help us know about Krishna, in your association. We hope that we can be able to have His Holiness again one day in 2021. Thank you so much. We ask our devotees to kindly unmute yourselves and let’s chant Hare Krishna for Maharaja for coming. Kindly unmute.