BG 16.7 – The Divine and Demoniac Nature

Giriraj Swami: So, my dear devotees on Zoom, as far as possible, please turn on your cameras so we can see your moonlike faces. Hare Krishna.

So, I was requested to speak on Chapter Sixteen of the Bhagavad-gītā, and when I asked why, I was told that devotees rarely speak on that Chapter and so, for a change, wanted to hear. And I thought it was a good opportunity. So, I have chosen Text Seventeen. Srila Prabhupada would often quote this verse, even in Juhu, Mumbai he did.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

So, we read from Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Chapter Sixteen: “The Divine and Demoniac Natures,” Text Seven.

TEXT 7

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

TRANSLATION

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

In every civilized human society there is some set of scriptural rules and regulations which is followed from the beginning. Especially among the Āryans, those who adopt the Vedic civilization and who are known as the most advanced civilized peoples, those who do not follow the scriptural injunctions are supposed to be demons. Therefore it is stated here that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, nor do they have any inclination to follow them.

COMMENT

So, as suggested by the name of the Chapter “The Divine and Demoniac Natures,” Sri Krishna describes both, and earlier in the Chapter He has described the divine nature, and now He is discussing the demoniac nature. And He assured Arjuna, “do not worry you are possessed of the divine nature.” In other words, Arjuna, or any humble devotee, might consider himself to be possessed of the demoniac nature, but Krishna assured Arjuna, “do not worry you are possessed of the divine nature,” as I am sure everyone on this Zoom call is.

So, there are two classes of people, those of the divine nature and those of the demonic nature, or the devotees, or devas, and the non-devotees, or asuras. Sura means a demigod and asura means the opposite, a demon.

PURPORT (continued)

It is stated here that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, nor do they have any inclination to follow them. Most of them do not know them, and even if some know them, they have not the tendency to follow them. They have no faith, nor are they willing to act in terms of the Vedic injunctions. The demons are not clean, either externally or internally.

COMMENT

So, this is a very important quality for a devotee and especially a brahman. And if you see the qualities of a brahman, they are practically the opposite of the qualities described here of the demons. Yes, so Bhagavad-gītā describes the qualities of the brahman in Chapter Eighteen, Text Forty-Two.

TEXT 42

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

COMMENT

So, one of those qualities is “śaucam,” which means cleanliness or purity. And there is a verse, nice verse, about śuci and muci. Śuci means clean, and suśī also means a brahman. And muci means unclean, and related is the word mochi which means cobbler. Someone who takes the leather of dead cows and makes shoes. So, it is said that one may be born as a muci but if he becomes a devotee, he is considered to be śuci. And one may be born as a śuci , as a brahman, but if he is not a devotee he is no better than a mochi or a cobbler.

So, the real thing is the qualification as Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā  cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, that one falls into a varna according to guna, means his qualities, and karma his activities. Krishna does not mention janma or birth.

So, we, as aspiring devotees, should try to develop the qualities of brahmans, and so it’s good to be aware of those qualities, and, as I said, those qualities are pretty much the opposite of the qualities mentioned here as the qualities of asuras, or demons.

So. . .

PURPORT (continued)

The demons are not clean, either externally or internally. One should always be careful to keep his body clean by bathing, brushing teeth, shaving, changing clothes, etc.

COMMENT

Srila Prabhupada has commented how in India, especially in the villages, the villagers are so clean. He said, “Even if someone is poor,” say, “He has only one set of cloth, but he’ll wash it every night, and put it in the sun, it will dry very quickly and then he’ll wear a clean cloth every day.”

PURPORT (continued)

As far as internal cleanliness is concerned, one should always remember the holy names of God and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The demons neither like nor follow all these rules for external and internal cleanliness.

COMMENT

They also do not like to hear the chanting of “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.”

There have been so many instances in the history of the movement, even during Srila Prabhupada’s time, when people objected to the chanting of Hare Krishna, because we can presume, they were demons. Of course, one famous incident took place in Juhu, when we were trying to get the “No Objection certificate” from the police to build the temple, and the police commissioner issued a letter that made Srila Prabhupada furious, and you could say inspired Srila Prabhupada to organize a huge protest. But the police commissioner refused to give the certificate on the grounds, that the kirtan, which had been a nuisance in the past, would be an even bigger nuisance in the future if we had the temple.

So, when Srila Prabhupada heard that he was outraged, I mean he was furious. We got the letter during the annual Mayapur-Vrindavan festival, during the Vrindavan part of the festival, which came after the Mayapur part, and he told all the devotees, that, “You are not going back, you are coming to Bombay, and we are going to protest these words of the police commissioner.” And so, we, yeah, there were many activities and some of the devotees such as Balavanta Prabhu and Amarendra Prabhu were experienced in dealing with politicians in America and Srila Prabhupada had them meet various politicians in Bombay. And, so yeah, many times devotees who would be doing hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana on the streets in the past, I don’t think now, I hope not, but they would be arrested in Australia. The devotees would be arrested for doing hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana.  

So, these are signs of demons and Srila Prabhupada at twenty-six second avenue, our first temple in New York city, he would do a relatively soft kirtan and people would complain. Sometimes someone from upstairs would come down and complain. Sometimes they would call the police. And Srila Prabhupada said that “There are so many big trucks on the street making so much noise, all sorts of noise, coming from all directions, but that didn’t bother them, but the chanting of Hare Krishna bothered them,” and Srila Prabhupada commented that these are signs of demons, which is part of our subject today.

So, back to the purport. . .

PURPORT (continued)

As for behavior, there are many rules and regulations guiding human behavior, such as the Manu-saṁhitā, which is the law of the human race. Even up to today, those who are Hindu follow the Manu-saṁhitā. Laws of inheritance and other legalities are derived from this book. Now, in the Manu-saṁhitā it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world.

COMMENT

Now, this needs to be discussed. There was a time when Srila Prabhupada was talking about this topic, about women, and I took it upon myself to read all the different things that Srila Prabhupada said on the subject, and I could understand that what Srila Prabhupada was really trying to do is protect the women from being exploited. The way he phrases it here might not be very palatable from a certain point of view, but the underlying intention is certainly to see that the women are protected and not exploited.

PURPORT (continued)

Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grownup sons in her old age.

COMMENT

Which is nice, nice. . .

PURPORT (continued)

This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-saṁhitā. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed-up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society.

COMMENT

So, Srila Prabhupada said that the woman’s liberation movement, the, yeah, the idea that women are equal to man or should be treated equally to men was actually an invention of men who wanted to exploit women, because if they are equal, they have to fend for themselves.

PURPORT (continued)

And therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society.

COMMENT

Well. . .

PURPORT (continued)

The demons, therefore, do not accept any instruction which is good for society, and because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable.

COMMENT

The other day I had a very interesting talk on Zoom with His Holiness Devamrita Swami, and Devamrita Swami brought up the question of Srila Prabhupada’s statements about different categories of people, that he seemed to. . . you can say present a stereotyped idea of what people in those different categories were. For example, women, or blacks, for example. And Devamrita Swami had the insight that the reason Srila Prabhupada did that, was so that people would not adopt the false and futile effort to ameliorate people’s conditions without Krishna consciousness. And, yeah, I mean as Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, “Anyone who takes to Krishna consciousness can attain the supreme abode.” I mean there are so many verses like that, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā, that anyone who surrenders to Krishna or the devotees of Krishna, whatever their background, they can achieve the supreme destination.

So, the only way to really help people is to elevate them to Krishna consciousness, and that should be our effort and personally to become Krishna conscious, and then in terms of helping others, to encourage them to become Krishna conscious. Especially in this age the best way is to chant Hare Krishna as Srila Prabhupada says in the purport, “As far as internal cleanliness is concerned one should always remember the holy names of God and chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.”

Hare nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalaṁ kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā, one should chant the holy names, chant the holy names, chant the holy names of Hare Krishna, there is no other way, no other way, no other way for success in the present age of Kali. So, whenever we can, which it actually is always, Srila Prabhupada says we should atleast remember the holy names and whenever possible we should chant.

When Srila Prabhupada was in Los Angeles, he said, “If you’ve got time chant Hare Krishna, don’t speak nonsense, chant Hare Krishna.” So that chanting should go on and that will cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, just chant, and chant, and chant, and that will purify the heart and help us to realize our eternal identities which are beyond this material body and mind. Our eternal identity is jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇa nitya dāsa, we are the eternal servants of Krishna. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, “I am not a brahman, nāhaṁ vipro, I’m not a brahman, I’m not a kshatriya, I’m not a vaishya, I’m not a sudra, I’m not a brahmachari, I’m not a grihastha, I’m not a vanaprastha, I’m not a sannyasi.” Then, what are you? There is nothing left and gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, I am just a servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, the maintainer of the gopīs of Vrindavan. So, that is our actual identity, and all these bodily designations do not really apply to us as spirit souls.

Once His Holiness Bhakti Tirtha Swami said to Srila Prabhupada,“Srila Prabhupada I don’t like to say it, but there is prejudice against black people in your movement.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “If you think you are a black person, then you are no different from the rest of them.”

So, yeah, we are not black, we are not white, we are not yellow, we are all just eternal servants of Krishna, and we can realize our eternal identities by chanting the holy names and hearing the Vedic literatures, reading the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, that just hearing talks about Krishna, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ it makes one pious. And Krishna, who is within the heart as our well-wishing friend, cleanses the desire for material enjoyment from within the heart of the devotee who hears His messages, suhṛt satām He is the well-wishing friend of the truthful devotee, sat means devotee, and it also means truth.

So, yes, so suhṛt satām, Krishna is the well-wishing friend of the truthful devotee, and He removes the desires for material enjoyment from within the heart of the devotee who hears His messages. And we need that help. Of course, Srila Prabhupada explains that the messages of Krishna on the absolute platform are not different from Krishna. So, when we hear the messages of Krishna, when the messages of Krishna enter our ear and then go to our heart, Krishna is entering our heart. And then two Krishna as the Supersoul, as the Paramātmā within the heart, He also helps cleanse the heart. And as Srila Prabhupada said and as we have all experienced, we cannot do that cleansing on our own, we need help, and Krishna is there to help us. And then, when our heart is cleansed, then we feel engladdened.

Yeah, there are so many beautiful verses in the Second Chapter of the First Canto that described this process one after the other, one after the other, one after the other. . . how purification takes place, in fact maybe I’ll read them because they are really important.

So, I’ll start with Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.2.6

TEXT 6

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

TRANSLATION

The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely satisfy the self.

TEXT 7

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

TRANSLATION

By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.

COMMENT

Now this reminds me, because in today’s verse from the Bhagavad-gītā we have these two words, “pravṛtti” and “nivṛtti". And pravṛtti-mārga means, the path of enjoyment, which you could say is the path of the demons, and nivṛtti-mārga is the path of renunciation, which is the path of devotees. And that renunciation is necessary for spiritual advancement. And so, the verse that I just read explains that that vairāgya or detachment will arise automatically by the practice of bhakti-yoga.

TEXT 7

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

TRANSLATION

By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.

COMMENT

So, and there is another verse. . . it’s not in this particular collection, but it’s one that Srila Prabhupada quoted to me personally, and that is, “That by serving the person Bhagavat or hearing the book Bhagavat, all that is inauspicious in the heart is destroyed almost to nil.” And he quoted this verse to me in Calcutta at a time when he was keeping us very busy in service and beginning the movement in India. And I wasn’t finding time to read, and I was feeling guilty that I wasn’t reading. And so, he. . . I didn’t say anything, but he probably read my mind, and then he quoted that verse that by serving the person Bhagavat or reading the book Bhagavat, one gets the same result. And he said that that if you serve the person Bhagavat, which was him of course, that by serving the person Bhagavat, all the truths of the book Bhagavat will be revealed to you, even if you never read the book.

So, I quote this to reinforce the efficacy of serving the person Bhagavat; I do not say it to encourage you not to read, and it may happen under extraordinary circumstances. For some time, one may not be able to read much, but we should read. In fact Srila Prabhupada wrote so many letters, we should study his books every day for one hour, in some letters he wrote for three hours, so, yes, reading is also important.

And all of these activities combine to purify our hearts. And then when our hearts are pure, we feel engladdened in Krishna’s service. How the modes of passion and ignorance subside, yeah, so, I’ll read these verses, I paraphrased them, but I will read them now, because, by serving devotees one develops taste, that’s what we need, we need taste. So, I’ll read this series of verses, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.2.16

TEXT 16

śuśrūṣoḥ śraddadhānasya

vāsudeva-kathā-ruciḥ

syān mahat-sevayā viprāḥ

puṇya-tīrtha-niṣevaṇāt

TRANSLATION

O twice-born sages, by serving those devotees who are completely freed from all vice, great service is done. By such service, one gains affinity for hearing the messages of Vāsudeva.

TEXT 17

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

TRANSLATION

Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramātmā [Supersoul] in everyone’s heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.

COMMENT

Then 1.2.18 the one that Srila Prabhupada quoted to me.

TEXT 18

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

TRANSLATION

By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

TEXT 19

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ

kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

TRANSLATION

As soon as irrevocable. . .

COMMENT

As soon as irrevocable, I said it right. Reminds me of what my dear friend His Holiness Ṛtadhvaja Swami once said that “I only made one mistake in my whole life, once I thought I was wrong, and I was right.” So, I actually said it right, anyway.

TRANSLATION

As soon as irrevocable loving service is established in the heart, the effects of nature’s modes of passion and ignorance, such as lust, desire and hankering, disappear from the heart. Then the devotee is established in goodness, and he becomes completely happy.

TEXT 20

evaṁ prasanna-manaso

bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ

bhagavat-tattva-vijñānaṁ

mukta-saṅgasya jāyate

TRANSLATION

Thus established in the mode of unalloyed goodness, the man whose mind has been enlivened by contact with devotional service to the Lord gains positive scientific knowledge of the Personality of Godhead in the stage of liberation from all material association.

COMMENT

So, these different benefits of devotional service await us, step by step, so we have a lot to look forward to, I mean, we are already experiencing a lot and as we continue, as we persevere, we will experience more and more of the wonderful benefits of devotional service. Hare Krishna.

So, now, we have passed one hour, but if there is time and I think there should be time we can have questions and comments.

Host: Yes, Maharaja. Actually, there is one question by Shyama Mohini devi dasi, she says, “Hare Krishna, wonderful class, as always Maharaja, on the protection to women, what would you tell the ladies who do not have sons, particularly when mocked by people who have sons?” that’s her question.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, is she on the Zoom call?

Host: Yes. [Unintelligible 1:00:25.6]

Devotee: Yes. I’m here. [Unintelligible 1:00:33.4]

Giriraj Swami: Okay, all right, so, can you repeat your question?

Devotee: Sure, Hare Krishna, Maharaja. well, should it just. . . what would you tell ladies who do not have sons and particularly when mocked by people who have sons and that the women are supposed to be protected. . . sorry that one is the micro. . . When they are supposed. . . women are supposed to be protected by their fathers when they are children in your youth by their husbands and older age by their sons, but if they are no sons, what would you tell those ladies?

Giriraj Swami: Well, frankly, after hearing what you just said, I would tell them to avoid the association of the people who make such nasty comments. I mean, what is the point of making such a statement? Just to make them feel bad? Or to make the people who are making the comments feel better about themselves that they are more fortunate than someone else? Doesn’t sound like a very Vaishnava. . . of course I don’t know, I mean, there may be extenuating circumstances but on the face of it from what you said doesn’t sound like a very Vaishnava thing to say. We should be in the mood of encouraging other devotees and supporting them, not making them feel bad, making them feel unfortunate. . . You could tell them to come and see you, you’ll set things straight.

Devotee: Oh, gracias Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Are there any other questions or comments?

Host: Let’s see, please raise your hand if you would like to ask a question.

Giriraj Swami: And also, again, if it’s possible please turn on your cameras.

Host: Okay, we have Lalita devi dasi, please ask your question.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my respectful obeisances, all glories to you, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you so much for your time and for your beautiful class Guru Maharaja. Just along the lines of the first question, just want to understand, Guru Maharaja, it being Kali-yuga,  it’s not that women are just without sons, they find themselves in all kinds of situations, single women, divorced women, and I mean it’s so. . . how do we understand it in the light of the structure of protection for women—that just doesn’t seem to be supported by the society, and even if they have a husband or a son but there may not be protection there.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, well, I mean, our ultimate protection, of course, is Krishna. And when all else fails, Krishna is there. And so, I mean, there are different levels to this issue, there is spiritual level, and the social level, but spiritually, they should take shelter of Krishna, I mean, we should all take shelter of Krishna in all circumstances. And, I mean, it might sound mundane, but I think also even some parents of ladies are giving the same advice that, well, this is probably more for the younger generation, but, well it’s difficult, but if they can earn, that does afford them some sort of protection.

Devotee: Yeah, yeah absolutely, some practical level.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, yeah.

Devotee: Thank you, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Vrindavan dasa ask your question. Go ahead prabhu…  

Devotee: Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Vrindavan dasa, it’s so nice to see you. Whenever I see you, I think of His Holiness Bhakti Bringa Govinda Swami Maharaja.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. Happy to see you too. . .

Giriraj Swami: You always accompany him and serve him when he would come for “Kirtan Fifty” in Dallas and other occasions. . . yes Vrindavan dasa, please.

Devotee: Yes, I have two questions. First question, you mentioned pravṛtti-mārga and the nivṛtti-mārga. . .

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: And especially in Russia some preachers, they say that because not every person can become a renounced devotee, but still have some right to do spiritual practice or to do spiritual progress. We should admit the. . . we should admit the pravṛtti-mārga as well. Also, Srila Prabhupada says that pravṛtti-mārga is not for devotees, so the first question is what do you think about that? and another question is. . . yeah, we mentioned. . .

Giriraj Swami: Let me answer the first.

Devotee: Yes

Giriraj Swami: I mean, I believe that the situation that you raised is addressed by varnashrama-dharma and so, yeah, there is brahmachari ashram, vanaprastha ashram and sannyasa ashram which are more for renunciation, but there is also grihastha ashram, and, of course, even within grihastha ashram the focus should be Krishna consciousness. In fact, ashram the word “ashram” is related to the word āśraya, which means shelter. So, every ashram should bring one to Krishna’s shelter, but, yeah, if they want some enjoyment, well, they are not pure devotees, but they are still devotees. And they can be purified. Does that answer your question?

Devotee: It doesn’t exactly answer, so, I mean there is a difference when say we have some enjoyment in our grihastha life, but we take it as not as a benefit of grihastha life, but something which is naturally supposed to be in grihastha life, but it doesn’t mean that we as devotees should focus on that pravṛtti-mārga . So, yes, we have some enjoyment, but our goal is still to be in nivṛtti-mārga. 

Giriraj Swami: For sure! for sure, absolutely.

Devotee: But it doesn’t mean that we say that pravṛtti-mārga  and nivṛtti-mārga are kind of equal, because they both bring us to Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Well, no, I mean nivṛtti-mārga is superior because that brings us to Krishna, because we need detachment, janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam but detachment will come by proper execution of bhakti-yoga. But detachment is essential.

Devotee: Yeah, thank you, Maharaja, yeah. And one more question is about Manu-saṁhitā which we mentioned today as well, and we know that Manu-saṁhitā belongs to karma-kāṇḍa part of Vedas or Vedic scriptures, so, how important, and how valuable is Manu-saṁhitā in our lives as devotees, in devotees’ lives?

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada, he occasionally quotes Manu-saṁhitā as he did in this case to give advice about how to organize society, but bhakti is beyond, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is beyond Manu-saṁhitā, bhakti is beyond karma-kāṇḍa of course. And so, we should focus on that, but there can be some good instructions in the Manu-saṁhitā which we respect.

Devotee: The fact that we respect it doesn’t mean that we should build our life according to Manu-saṁhitā.

Giriraj Swami: No. We should build our life according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Devotee: Okay, thank you very much Maharaja.

Host: Thank you, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: I see Malati dasi has a hand raised. . .

Host: Yes, go ahead.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances at the dust of your lotus feet, all glory to Srila Prabhupada, all glories to Your Divine Grace Thank you. Maharaja, actually we are very much aware that every solution to our problems is in the “bead bag.” It saves women, men, children, whatever we have stated so many problems today about women feeling bad about situations, not getting that equality with men and everything, but then, if we know that we are aware that everything lies in the “bead bag” and if. . . and there are other things if I say that we go for astrology, also, and, if the astrologer tells you to wear some gem and follow a few prayers to demigods we go for it, we just follow that very strictly if we were to see. But when chanting comes, we just somewhere or the other we don’t have that faith, that no, the problem will be solved at a certain point, so, what is it like, how can we get that faith, we just put our faith in the chanting, so I just want to clear it out.

Giriraj Swami: But you have that faith, from your question, we understand you have that faith.

Devotee: I’m not sure of that. I wouldn’t say anything about myself, Maharaja, but then I just had this question, I just because really 99 percent of everything is in the “bead bag.”  I really feel Krishna really helps you every time, in any situation you are in, even if you are a woman I feel, if you are not protected in some way, but, if we have that faith in your chanting you are really chanting very nicely during your rounds, it really affects, Krishna really comes in any, many, ways to help you out.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, beautiful. True. In the Boston temple, at a certain stage Srila Prabhupada moved the press there, because we had purchased a house. It was actually the first building purchased in ISKCON. There was a big house, and Srila Prabhupada moved the press there, and he would oversee the publication of his books, and one of the books was Easy Journey to Other Planets, which he had written in India, actually, before coming here. And so, he described what the cover should look like, and he said, “In one corner should be the Earth planet, and then in the opposite corner up would be Goloka Vrindavan, and then flying in outer space would be a devotee chanting on beads.” Srila Prabhupada said that “That everything is in the beads, by the beads you can get to Goloka Vrindavan.” Then in one letter to me, Srila Prabhupada said that our beads are our direct link to Kirshna. Are there any other questions or comments?

Host: There is one question in the chat by bhakta Sudarshan. He says, Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. Why did the Pandavas not protect Draupadi against Duryodhana when she was being disrobed?

Giriraj Swami: Okay, is this person on Zoom? I’d like to see the people who are asking the questions.

Host: Yes, he is. Prabhu, would you please turn on your camera? Okay this is bhakta Sudarshan. Okay, turn on your microphone, please.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja! I am [Unintelligible 01:19:54] actually, bhakta Sudarshan is my son. I am a disciple HH Giridhari Swami from Philippines.

Giriraj Swami: Wonderful, wonderful. What is your question?

Devotee: So, my question is, why Draupadi was not protected by the Pandavas against Duryodhana when she was being disrobed by Dushashana?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, well, yeah, the circumstances were such that they couldn’t, although it was sort of rigged, but they lost the gambling match. And so, and especially Maharaja Yudhisthira as you know is a very noble and virtuous person, so, they, but the real point is that she was protected by Krishna. Krishna Himself provided unlimited lengths of sari for her, which brings us back to the point that Krishna is our ultimate shelter, and ultimate protector. But yes, ordinarily her husbands would have protected her, but the circumstances were such that they. . . it would have been a violation if they tried to, at that time. Do you understand?

Devotee: Yes, Guru Maharaja, thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, Hare Krishna. Ramai Pandit prabhu I see your hand is up.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Am I audible, Guru Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: You are.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my most humble obeisances unto the dust of your lotus feet, all glory to Srila Prabhupada, all  glories to Your Divine Grace. Guru Maharaja, thank you so much for such a wonderful class, my question is Guru Maharaja regarding śuci  and muci. How important in Krishna consciousness, because as we see in Krishna consciousness a lot of stress is given on śuci, especially in Deity worship. . .

Giriraj Swami: Oh yes.

Devotee: But how important is otherwise, śuci in other aspects as well, like for grihastha life for congregational devotees in their homes, so, is it the stress that we give on śuci, in Deity worship, is the same level of suśī required and should be followed in grihastha life and in our respective homes. So, Guru Maharaja, can you share some of your thoughts on this?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I mean, we should always be clean internally and externally, and that applies to in our homes, in our offices, and yeah, and it said that a brahman always has to be near water, of course, now we have taps and we can just turn on the tap and get water. But it was said that brahmans always have to be near water, because they are always cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning. . . yeah. Often His Holiness Indradyumna Swami, he would stay with us here, he was always cleaning, personally cleaning, of course, he does Deity worship, beautiful Deity worship, he is always cleaning his table, cleaning this floor, cleaning everything, yeah. Always immaculate. And Srila Prabhupada said that if there is dirt, and if you don’t react, it means there is something wrong with you. You have to react when there is dirt and remove it.

Devotee: And also, Guru Maharaja if, is it, so. . . when we stress a lot on śuci in our respective grihastha ashrams, so, how much does it help in your Krishna consciousness and advancement in Krishna consciousness? How do you connect to them to what level?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah I. . . as Srila Prabhupada quoted cleanliness is next to Godliness. So, it does help. It. . . yeah, śuci, yeah, it helps elevate your consciousness. Do you have a problem with cleanliness?

Devotee: No Maharaja, it’s. . . I just wanted to know how much should we raise our level in matters of śuci? how much you. . . especially when we are cooking in the kitchen, when we have to separate the utensils which are kept in the kitchen, whether for Deities we have to separate our utensils and for our own use, so, in that matter how much should we give importance to that?

Giriraj Swami: Are you asking whether you should have separate for the Deities? Or are you giving that as an example? Well, you have Deities at home?

Devotee: Yes, yes Guru Maharaja, yes.

Giriraj Swami: So, yeah, for the Deities we want everything to be clean.

Devotee: Yes, Guru Maharaja, because of some practical reasons sometimes we cannot separate the sink and, because otherwise you’ll have to make a lot of adjustments in the kitchen, and it becomes difficult sometimes, so, we are just. . . I was just thinking whether we should, how much far should we go in that matter, whether we should really go, and go ahead and make the necessary adjustments.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I think you have to assess that, I mean, you can’t necessarily make everything at home to the same standard as in the temple. Do the best you can.

Devotee: Okay, thank you so much Guru Maharaja.Hare Krishna

Giriraj Swami: Vrajeshwari  has her hand raised.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances. Guru Maharaja, you are saying, Prabhupada said, we should always be thinking about Krishna or chanting maha-mantra, but Guru Maharaja, we can’t. . . I am talking about myself, I can’t think about Krishna all the time because there are so many other things that are happening, but if we are say, we have festival going on at temple, or I have to go to temple tomorrow, or any related to any services, I’m thinking about that one, how what am I going to cook, how we are going go, all these things coming in my mind, it does also include the Krishna’s service or remembering Krishna, or not?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes, on the absolute platform Krishna and Krishna’s service are the same, so, when you are thinking of Krishna’s service, you are thinking of Krishna, and you are thinking of doing it for Krishna.

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: So, yes.

Devotee: And the other question is about the śuci, as we said, we can, we should take the bath,, mostly I read from Prabhupada’s books also, they said well. . . at least we take two to three times a day bath, and when we take the bath, means we had to put the whole set of the clean clothes as well? We had to change all the clothes as well? or just to take the. . . clean the body only, or. . .

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, no. You don’t need to, if you want to, you can, but you don’t have to change your clothes every time you take bath. Of course, in the morning you take bath and put on clean clothes, but then if you take another bath, you don’t necessarily have to put on fresh clothes.

Devotee: Thank you so much Guru Maharaja, It’s good to see you, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna, it’s nice to see you too. I just want to say one more thing about that. Sometimes due to maybe not feeling well, one cannot do everything, and one, I mean, cleanliness is a high priority, but it’s not the highest priority. So, if the circumstances are such that one cannot clean that much. . .I mean it’s not ideal of course, it could be excused, under certain circumstances. Once Srila Prabhupada walked into the brahmachari ashram in London, and it was a mess. And he said, “Good, you are all so busy with service, you don’t have time to clean.”

Bala Krishna dasa your hand is up.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Dandwat pranam.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: My question is on the other verse that you just quoted 18.42. So, the qualities of the brahmana. . .

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes, yes, yes. . .

Devotee: My question is, when we say these qualities of the brahmans are developed, it doesn’t mean that the person becomes a brahman? My, so I’ll just give a bit of a background, so, my understanding of brahmana is someone like a teacher, like you, who is teaching, who is thinking, who is able to understand other people and impart knowledge. So, that is someone who also has the nature of a brahmana, of a teacher. So what was being said in this verse is all these qualities bring us to the brahminical nature, but it doesn’t make us brahmana, so we don’t become, I see myself as given by my guna karma, I feel I’m more on the sudra/brahman side of, that is where my nature is, so, I’m just wondering, how do I understand this verse?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. As I quoted Lord Krishna says cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So, it is guna, qualities and karma, activities. So, the verse I read, are quoted, śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam—those are the qualities of a brahman, but in addition to the qualities there is also the question of the activities of the brahman. There are six activities of brahmans, they learn the scripture and they teach the scripture, they worship the Lord, and they engage others in the worship of the Lord, and they accept charity, and they give charity. So those are the six occupational duties of brahmans. And, on. . . yeah, yeah. Is that clear?

Devotee: So, I’m. . . I mean just a follow-up question would be. . . we as devotees, most of us are doing that to some extent. We are teaching to some extent, we are doing a little bit of Deity sevā if you have a Deity at home, so, I’m just saying the mindset doesn’t change, the mindset is still who we are. We don’t become, we don’t become necessarily change who we are.

Giriraj Swami: That’s true. I mean, a Vaishnava is beyond a brahman. So, in that sense, devotees are beyond brahmans, but still, we can work on manifesting the brahminical qualities, but in principle a Vaishnava is beyond a brahman.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Even a Vaishnava sudra is beyond a brahman. Shyama Val your hand is up.

Devotee: Haribol Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna!

Devotee: Thank you for taking on this topic, that’s very sensitive and you don’t hear this spoken of too often. I especially the part where you clarified about how, what Srila Prabhupada really meant by protect. . . protecting women and keeping them from exploitation, not physically having in chains and that kind of thing, because I’ve heard a lot of misinterpretations of this particular verse. So, that really helps a lot as far as that clarification goes, so I appreciate that. And then also the story about Bhakti Tirtha Swami, I actually remember hearing that from him a long time ago, so, that was pretty wonderful. And it also put some things in perspective how we shouldn’t be looking at ourselves as the body anyway. . .

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: So, thank you very much for that. I just wanted to make that comment.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. Jaya

Devotee: Okay.

Host: Looks like there is a question in the chat by. . . it says “Haribol Guru Maharaja. I have two questions on śuci and muci. During the day I’m visiting clients, I pass water, can I still chant my mid-day. . .” sorry, he says “During the day I am visiting clients and I pass water, can I still chant my midday Gayatri?” this is under the reference to śuci.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, yes, yes, yeah. You can do arcanam, should do arcanam, but that’s okay. That’s fine.

Host: Okay, so that that was our last question. So, we want to thank you so much on behalf of ISKCON Miami Maharaja, for taking the time to speak to everyone and the devotees here in Miami, see here we can open, everybody can open their microphones, and cameras so we can. . .

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Devotee: Thank you so much Guru Maharaja!