BG 2.21 – Everything Has Its Proper Utility

Speaker: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Maharaja is here now [00:10:02 Inaudible]. Hare Krishna Maharaja, my humble obeisances Maharaja. Hare Krishna Maharaja, you have to unmute your mic. Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Speaker: Yeah, welcome Maharaja. My humble obeisances to Srila Prabhupada. Nice to see you Maharaja, what about you?

Giriraj Swami: I am very fine.

Speaker: Good. Always a pleasure to have you.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. Pleasure to be with you all.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja. So, I will mute everybody, I know [00:11:00 Inaudible]. I will mute everybody so there will be no noise from anybody’s background.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I’m happy to see a nice contingent from Columbus, Ohio.

Speaker: Yes, thank you. [00:11:15 Inaudible] missed you Maharaja. Thank you so much. You can start Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Ok. Before I begin, I would like to request the devotees, as far as possible, to put on their cameras so I can see their moonlight faces and it will be more personal. So, nice, thank you. So, yes, I’ll begin by singing the maṅgala-ācaraṇa prayers and leading a short kirtan and then we will speak on today’s verse from the Bhagavad-gītā.

Speaker: Yes, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: So, again my dear devotees, as far as possible, please put on your videos so we can see you and reciprocate with you better. I will just get my Bhagavad-gītā from my shelf. So, we are reading from Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Chapter Two, Text Twenty-One. [00:30:26 Inaudible].

TEXT 21

vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ
ya enam ajam avyayam
kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha
kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam

TRANSLATION

O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Everything has its proper utility, and a man who is situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing for its proper utility. Similarly, violence also has its utility, and how to apply violence rests with the person in knowledge. Although the justice of the peace awards capital punishment to a person condemned for murder, the justice of the peace cannot be blamed, because he orders violence to another person according to the codes of justice. In Manu-saṁhitā, the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore, the king’s punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for supreme justice, and thus Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence, committed in the act of fighting for Kṛṣṇa, is not violence at all because, at any rate, the man, or rather the soul, cannot be killed; so for the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but to cure him. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna at the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction.

COMMENT

So, this purport by Srila Prabhupada is very deep and full of meaning, but first let us consider the verse itself because it tells us who we really are, what is our actual identity. So, first of all, we are the soul. And what is the nature of the soul? avināśinam, it is indestructible; nityam, it is always existing or eternal; it is ajam unborn and it is avyayam, immutable. So, this is very good news. That we are eternal. And you cannot be, we, the soul, cannot be harmed or killed. Now, in the purport, Srila Prabhupada gives a very apt example, that when the judge orders a murderer to be killed it is actually beneficial for the murderer. And therefore, the Manu-saṁhitā says that, a murderer should be condemned to death, if he is not, then both, the present life and the next life are ruined. His present life is ruined because he is a murderer and he will be punished as a murderer, but because he has not fully paid for his crime, his next life also will be ruined because he’ll have to pay for it in his next life. If he is hanged or condemned to death, then this life is over, there is no more suffering in this life and that atonement of suffering capital punishment is so powerful that in his next life, he takes birth where a pious person would take birth because his sin has been washed away by his, being hanged or nowadays electrocuted. Unfortunately, most people are unaware of the existence of the soul or the laws of karma and therefore, out of sentiment, they protest against capital punishment. But as we have just read and discussed, capital punishment is beneficial for a murderer. And then, Srila Prabhupada extends the reasoning to say that, just as the killing ordered by the judge to the murderer is beneficial, similarly the killing ordered by Krishna to Arjuna is also beneficial for all concerned. And in fact, it is said that everyone who died on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, in the presence of Lord Krishna, was liberated.

When we were in Amritsar, Punjab with Srila Prabhupada, we were invited to the estate of a king, of course, at that time, there were no kings in India but he was, you would say, he was from a royal family, a kshatriya family. And he told Srila Prabhupada that an astrologer had informed him that he was present in the battle of Kurukshetra but that unfortunately he was on the side against Krishna and he felt very sorry about that. And Srila Prabhupada told him not to worry because that could not be true because everyone who died on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, in the presence of Krishna, was liberated, so he doesn’t have to worry about being in the battle of Kurukshetra on the side against Krishna, so yeah.

But in the purport, Srila Prabhupada is talking about everything having its useful purpose, including violence. And there are some people who unfortunately try to derive the philosophy of non-violence from the Bhagavad-gītā, of course, non-violence or ahimsa is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as a virtue, and in that sense, we should be non-violent, we should not kill living entities unnecessarily for the sake of our sense gratification. So, in that sense, we agree with ahimsa or non-violence. But in the service of Krishna, violence may be necessary, as it was on the battlefield of Kurukshetra for Arjuna. And I will relate one incident that took place in Juhu during our struggles, that’s a long story. But at one stage our semi-permanent temple was demolished by the municipality, we understand that they had been bribed to do that atrocious deed. And at that time Balasaheb Thackeray, who was the founder and leader of the Shivasena political party, intervened and he had the demolition stopped just before they had come to the stage of demolishing the deity room. They had already demolished the darshan mandap and they were just about to start on the deity room when Balasaheb Thackeray spoke to M.W Desai, the Municipal Commissioner, and the commissioner had the demolition stopped and the K Ward officer himself because there were no cell phones or such methods of communication, that he came running personally to the site to stop the demolition. So, for some time we were meeting the different municipal corporators to enlist their support for giving us permission to rebuild the temple. But at a certain stage, we realized that actually, we didn’t need to get permission to rebuild the temple, we already had permission to build the temple and keep the temple. So, we didn’t need permission to rebuild it, we could just do it.

So, it was Friday, it was a Friday, we came to that realization and Mrs. Nair, who was the, in a way, you could say the enemy, found out about what we were planning to do, that was on Thursday we came to that conclusion and then, the next day on Friday, she went to the high court with a petition for an injunction to prevent us from rebuilding, it was her property, she argued and she hadn’t given us permission. But the judge, Justice Nain was familiar with our society and activities and appreciative of Prabhupada and our movement, and he said he would not, he would consider granting the injunction only after he heard both sides. And because it was a Friday, he pointed out at the end of the week, he would take up the matter on Monday. But Mrs Nair’s appeal was to just give a temporary injunction for the weekend and then you can decide up on the permanent injunction but Justice Nain responded, “No, without hearing the other side I will not pass any judgment.” When we heard of Mrs. Nair’s petition and the judge’s response, we knew we had to take advantage of the opportunity. If the judge ruled against us, we would be prohibited from going ahead with the reconstruction. But once the temple was up, we understood, an injunction even if it were granted would be meaningless, the temple would already be in place and no rebuilding would be necessary. So, we figured we had the weekend until Monday morning to put up the structure. So, the next day, Saturday, I approached some of our friends to get materials for the reconstruction, it wasn’t easy to get materials then, the government had imposed cement control. To purchase it legally, one had to procure a government approved quota and by the time, we were ready to proceed, it was the weekend and many shops were closed. But it so happened that Mr. Sethi, who was one of the great heroes of Hare Krishna land, Juhu, was visiting Juhu with his family to check on his house that was under construction, just a few blocks from the temple.

He recalled, when we came, we saw that the small shed had been demolished and the description given to us of the demolition was horrifying, not only was the temple demolished but they wanted to take away the deities. Mr. Sethi was in poor health but he declared, “No matter whether laborers are available or not, I shall rebuild this temple and will do the labor work myself.” As it turned out, he was able to bring plenty of laborers and also supplies from his own construction sites. In the course of the day, Mrs. Nair, Mhatre, who was the corrupt municipal counselor, who was in cahoots with Nair and Mrs. Nair’s solicitor Bachubhai Shah, all came to the site, Hare Krishna Land. “You can’t do this,” they shouted demanding that we stop. Bachubhai Shah came to serve me with what I presumed to be a notice stopping me from rebuilding the temple and threatening me with consequences if I did. But when I saw him, I ran away as fast as I could and he came running after me as fast as he could, in his suit and tie. And I thought the respectable solicitor, Bachubhai Shah, is running after me like a child in a playground, where is his dignity? He couldn’t catch me and when I looked back from a safe distance, I saw him looking frustrated, leave the letter with someone else who just happened to be there with no proof that I had received the letter or ever would.

Mhatre too demanded that we halt the construction. “No,” Mr. Sethi replied, “Why should we stop?” “You can build it up,” Mhatre threatened, “But I will come in the night with fifty guṇḍās (hooligans) and break it down.” Mr. Sethi turned to his son, who was by his side and said, “Brij Mohan, bring my revolver and my rifle.” This is on the theme of everything having its proper use including violence. So, Mr. Sethi, turned to his son and said, “Bring my revolver and my rifle.” Then Mr. Sethi said to Mhatre, “Don’t bring fifty guṇḍās, bring a hundred, bring two hundred; I have two hundred and fifty cartridges, you’ll have to bring at least two hundred and fifty-one guṇḍās.” Mr. Sethi, had a kshatriya side and he was staunch. Later, Maithili said, echoing everyone’s admiration, “They did not count on the amazing heroism and bravery of my personal hero, Mr. P.L Sethi.” As Brij Mohan Sethi remembered; “With the revolver in my hand and the rifle in daddy’s hand, we started the work, we could not do this because of something in us but because of the blessings of Prabhupada, only with his blessings and mercy could we start the construction. The entire night it was raining cats and dogs, that means very heavily, but we never stopped the work, it went on. As the rain fell, Mr. Sethi recalled how by lifting Govardhana Hill, Lord Krishna had protected the inhabitants of Vrindavan from devastating rainfall sent by Indra. He was unperturbed, he thought, “Indra wants to test me? All right, if you want to come down, you can come down more heavily but I have the blessings of Srila Prabhupada, I have to rebuild the temple and I will.”

They were joined on guard duty by various friends and supporters from the area, a few police constables came in a van but they left around midnight. I was overseeing the rebuilding and Tamal Krishna told me, “I want you to stay up all night and make sure the work is done, people will be working all night long and guṇḍās may come to attack, I want you to stay up and make sure that the work keeps going and that nothing goes wrong.” A few days earlier, Satsvarupa Goswami, my first temple president, by whom I was greatly inspired had passed through Bombay. I appreciated his humble and gentle demeanor and I wanted to emulate him. When Tamal Krishna told me to stay up all night and oversee the work, I mentioned how I wanted to be like Satsvarupa Maharaja, a simple humble sadhu. Tamal Krishna looked me straight in the eyes and with a firm intensity and controlled anger responded, “Your humility will be to stay up all night and make sure this temple gets rebuilt.” I thought about it and I had to agree, where was the humility if I was not ready to surrender to the order or desire of the spiritual master? It was more, well yeah, I could have retired for the evening so I could get up early and be a good devotee and chant my rounds, which wasn’t bad, but I wouldn’t have really been humble. It was more-humble to submit to the order of the authority and do the needful for Srila Prabhupada’s service. To be humble meant to be ready without personal consideration, to do whatever the spiritual master wanted, whether or not it conformed to popular conceptions of a humble sadhu.

Mr. Sethi and his son, the friends and life members and the laborers stayed up all night to protect and complete the construction. Mr. Sethi recounted, “I was there with a gun, we started at nine, at eleven one man came down the road but I challenged him, “If you come inside, I will shoot you,” and he ran away and shouted to some other men, “They are ready to fight don’t go there.” It was pouring rain and the lightning was bad and when the men were putting up the asbestos sheets they were slipping on the ground, so we brought around fifty mats and put them and put twenty men on them, one man supporting another, so there was no slipping; ten masons worked all night and we completed the walls and the plaster.”

So, the devotees, life members, masons, and other skilled workers, laborers, and other friends did it, they put it all up in that one night, finishing around four in the morning and no one came to disturb the work. And then we had maṅgala-ārati. Mhatre returned around seven the next morning but by then, it was too late, “It is built,” we told him, “Go to the court.” Later that morning we appeared in the high court and told the judge that the temple had already been rebuilt. “What is built is built,” the judge said to Mrs. Nair, “No one can destroy the temple.” So, there is a very good part just about to begin and I will be back in one minute.

So, now we hear Srila Prabhupada’s reaction. When Prabhupada heard the news, he considered it a complete victory, the temple had been rebuilt. And now, we come to this point about everything having its proper use including violence. So, during the temple reconstruction, Mr. Sethi had demonstrated his kshatriya spirit, for which Prabhupada expressed his appreciation. Also teaching us a lesson, that sometimes a fighting spirit was required. “In this way, we have to fight,” he said later. “We should not be afraid for these rascals, why should you be afraid? If they take to guṇḍāism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. Come on, let us see, we have to maintain that spirit, anyayaye kara prabhu ara anyaya ye saha—- Rabindranath Tagore’s poetry, one who does wrong and one who suffers wrong, both are wrong.” One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong, that is human. If someone does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it, I shall not do harm to anyone. That’s all right but if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kshatriya spirit. yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam, if you are challenging then, all right, come on, I accept this challenge. We have to do like that.” So, Prabhupada was referring to the verse in the Bhagavad-gītā Ch. Eighteen, verse forty-three, describing the qualities of a kshatriya;

TEXT 43

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

TRANSLATION

Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the kṣatriyas.

COMMENT

Prabhupada continued, “If somebody is an athatayi, aggressor, you unnecessarily attack me, I must first kill you, that is my duty. Just like you have done here, Sethiji, ‘I’ll bring my revolver.’ That is argumentum ad baculum, here they wanted to put us into trouble and he was in great trouble, so he came and stood, all right, come on, we shall fight, bring my revolver. He did that, so we have to do like that, why shall I tolerate unnecessary justice? Take that spirit.”

In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.7.53–54, Lord Krishna Himself instructed Arjuna.

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa said: A friend of a brāhmaṇa is not to be killed, but if he is an aggressor he must be killed. All these rulings are in the scriptures, and you should act accordingly.

COMMENT

So, if there is a fight, Prabhupada said, we must be prepared to fight. Mr. Sethi mentioned me that I had supported him and I responded referring to him, “He was very heroic, he was very heroic.” “Yes,” Prabhupada said, “He is a kshatriya.”

Then, Mr. Sethi told us about his experiences fighting at the time of the partition between India and Pakistan. In the Pakistan time he said, “I fought forty, fifty men,” “Yes,” Prabhupada confirmed, “That is kshatriya spirit. If you want to fight, you kill. Yes, so many times, so many times, so you have got experience.” “Sometimes I have walked on the dead bodies.” “Really, so many dead bodies?” “I was with four men at Pathan court, a tanga, a horse-drawn carriage came with six muslims and they challenged us, we will kill you. We said, “Yes, come, you kill us, we will kill you. We fight.” We were ready at that time because revolver was with us. And kullhari acts and kundasa, curved sword. One, my friend was from Gujarwalla, he showed this kundasa and cut the first one’s head off and he was running.” Prabhupada said, “Achaa. . . still running?” “Running, in Mahābhārata I heard a body was running, but I actually saw it, his head was cut off and the body was running. Then he fell down and after that, the other men went. One man got out from the tonga and first, we cut off his head and then the others ran away, we saved all the fellows.” “That is also Krishna consciousness,” Prabhupada said, “You see how many demons were killed by Krishna.”

Referring to the rebuilding of the temple, Mr. Sethi said, “I declared if they challenged us, I’m ready, come on. In the night at the temple I challenged, come on, you are 150, we are not afraid. And then, when Mhatre came with that barrister to give Giriraj notice I scolded and I insulted him publicly.” Therefore, Prabhupada said, Mhatre was so against, that we must stop this. Yes, I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Sethi. Either, Sethi should go like that, he has repeated, he gave me hint, remove Sethi. But I replied, (this is Prabhupada speaking), “I will not let that happen.” That doctor was Mhatre’s man, he also gave a hint, give Mhatre two lakhs of rupees. He was a canvasser on behalf of Mhatre, he wanted two lakhs. “We will not give you a single paisa, Mr. Sethi concluded, we will fight you, come on.”

So, this is a real-life experience of how violence, although there wasn’t really violence, but the threat of violence, or the utility of violence or the necessity of violence was demonstrated in our personal experience at Hare Krishna Land in Juhu and Mr. Sethi really demonstrated that kshatriya spirit, “Come on, we’ll kill you.” And Srila Prabhupada very much appreciated it. So, and I’m reminded of something that Srila Prabhupada told, one of the GBCs, he was not GBC in Bombay for very long, but he was GBC for a while, and Prabhupada said that, “When people finish dealing with us, they should tell their friends, these Hare Krishna people, might look like fools but actually they are very smart, don’t mess with them.” So, jaya! Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

We have a little time and so, if devotees like they can ask questions or make comments.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja for a wonderful class, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Speaker: I wanted to ask, the lawyer who [01:12:25 Inaudible] at Juhu, was he devotee or non-devotee? The judge.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, the judge?

Speaker: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: He wasn’t exactly a devotee but he was very appreciative of Srila Prabhupada and the devotees. He had actually been a guest of honor at one of our pandal programs. And before he became a lawyer, excuse me, before he became a judge, he was a lawyer. And when he was a lawyer, he was Mr. Sethi’s lawyer. So yeah, yeah, he knew the devotees, he knew Mr. Sethi and he knew that we were good people. And that all the accusations against us were really false and fictitious. Yeah.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja. My second question is, if a devotee is trying to take away a property that belongs to the temple, what kind of violence can we use? To [01:14:04 Inaudible] the property of the temple like it happened in Juhu.

Giriraj Swami: You are saying if a devotee wants to take away the property?

Speaker: Of a temple. Because he thinks he is powerful, has connections and then, devotees are not that connected. What kind of violence can we use to preserve the property for the temple? Based on this verse of today.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t suggest, because he is trying to take it away by legal means, not by physical force. So, as I say, fight fire or with fire. So, I think that we have to respond by legal means. The other approach is, I don’t know who the devotee is or if there is any spiritual authority that he respects, but the other approach would be to try to get some spiritual authority to reason with him, not to do this wrong thing. I think that would probably be the best. My father was a judge and he was famous for getting the parties to come to an amicable, and friendly settlement before the matter actually going to trial. So, we should also try to somehow prevail upon that devotee to give up his wrong course of action.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja. We have one question from Narayani, please unmute yourself.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna Narayani.

Speaker: Thank you for your wonderful class. I have a question, let’s say somebody killed somebody and then the judge order for the person to be killed and if the person is being killed and I want to ask, because the person, let’s say the person is twenty years old and the person has been killed, would the person become a ghost? Because he died untimely? He didn’t die. . .

Giriraj Swami: No. There is no ruling that if someone is killed at a young age, he’ll become a ghost. Usually, people become ghost if they commit suicide but I don’t think that the young man who was killed would have, need to take birth as a ghost.

Speaker: Oh ok. Thank you so much Maharaja. Hare Krishna.

Speaker: Maharaja one question is from Sahadeva Prabhu, please unmute.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Speaker: Thank you very much for blessing our forum again.

Giriraj Swami: My pleasure.

Speaker: Thank you. Maharaja, my question has to go with as devotees, as aspiring devotees, we have to listen to our leaders. We learn spirituality from senior devotees and gurus but if there is a situation which is completely material, if it’s a legal issue and the leadership is strongly advising against keeping the case in the court. I’m a bit confused because this is a situation that is ongoing and I don’t want to openly bring it to this forum, so I’m trying to make it a general question. So, if I can try to rephrase it for a general understanding is, how does members of ISKCON go against the decision of leadership when the devotees know clearly that what the leadership is saying is not true, for instance, talking about ISKCONs property, if ordinary devotees know that another person is trying to take away ISKCONs property and the administration, the authorities for that particular temple or that particular yatra is not doing anything to reclaim or maintain ISKCONs property, but the devotees want to do something to reclaim or maintain the property, will that be considered as disrespectful or not obeying the orders of the authorities? What should the devotees do when it is clearly, in black and white, that another person wants to claim the property of ISKCON but the local leadership is no way in support of the devotees trying to reclaim the property that belongs to ISKCON? If possible, I can tell you exactly what the situation is off this forum but this is just a general question I have. Thank you very much Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: It might happen that the devotees see something that the authority doesn’t see and if the devotees are convinced that they need to take some action, just on that level I would say, they should take action. But there is a question that if they do take action, how would the authority respond? If he didn’t want to do it himself but he doesn’t mind if the devotees do it, then it’s fine. If he gets upset. . . but even then, you shouldn’t let ISKCONs property be taken away. I would tend to say that we should fight to preserve the property, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: Thank you very much Maharaja, thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: But if your authority gets upset then don’t tell them that I said that you should fight.

Speaker: No, I wouldn’t. Maharaja, I promise I wouldn’t.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja, our next question is from Vrajabhakti devi dasi, please unmute.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna Parīkṣit.

Speaker: Thank you so much for the amazing class.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, I’m glad you liked it.

Speaker: I heard that the books are coming to Columbus soon, I can’t wait to read them.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, it’s true. They have arrived in Los Angeles at the port and they are being, I think they are being moved to the warehouse and very soon a large number will be sent to Lalita devi and I’m sure that you can get a copy from her. Thank you for your interest.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Speaker: Maharaja, our question is from Pavitra Bhatt.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Guru Maharaja, daṇḍavat-praṇāmās, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. This is a question from [01:24:02 Inaudible] saying that in this life he is deaf, is it due to his past karma? But he is chanting now, so will his karma come to an end after this? He wants to know. Thank you, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I mean, if someone is born deaf, we can say it’s due to his past karma but if he becomes a devotee and is chanting, then he is becoming free from his past karma and if he is completely successful in his Krishna consciousness, and we hope he will be, then he will go back home, back to Godhead and no more karma, only bhakti. But bhakti is, bhakti is beyond karma anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, yeah. So, yeah, we wish him all success.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja, next question is from Jarant.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Maharaja, I offer my respectful obeisances. Maharaja, I have a question, I have two questions. Firstly, that sometimes we are walking, or we are just doing our daily activities, sometimes by doing we are killing animals like ants, obviously we try to avoid but we unfortunately kill them, they come under our feet, so what about that? Do they kill us in the next life, in the next birth if we take a birth in this material world? And again, if they kill us, willwe kill them and then this cycle goes eternally also?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, the world is such that you can’t avoid killing. I mean, the Jain community tried to avoid killing, traditional Jains, they wear a mask so they don’t breathe in any living entities and they sweep the path in front of them, so they don’t step on anything and of course, they are vegetarian, but not only vegetarian but they don’t eat things that involve killing, some plants. Of course, most fruits and vegetables, you don’t kill the plant, but some, like a potato if you eat a potato, you are taking its life, so they don’t eat potatoes. But ultimately, you can’t avoid killing completely. So, we have to surrender to Krishna, that’s really the only solution. As Krishna says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ, I free you, I liberate you from all sins, sinful reactions. So, that’s really the only solution but as far as possible, we should chant. For example, Srila Prabhupada said that when we step on the grass, we are causing it pain, so as far as possible, we should avoid walking on grass. But he says, if we have to walk on the grass, then we should chant Hare Krishna, so the grass will get the benefit of hearing the holy name.

Speaker: Thank you so much Maharaja for that amazing explanation. Maharaja, my second question was, you mentioned about chanting, but sometimes devotees, let’s say they die in an accident unfortunately, or at the time of death, they are unable to remember Krishna though they were chanting their whole life. So, what about that? Do they get liberated from that cycle of birth? As Krishna says, at the time of death, you chant Me, you will return to Me, when you chant My name, you will get to My abode.

Giriraj Swami: Well, generally, at the time of death we think of whatever we are most attached to. We want to be attached to Krishna, so that at the time of death, we think of Krishna. And yeah, we may not always be in, what we would say to be an ideal situation, surrounded by devotees chanting the holy names but still, we can think of Krishna. Once Tamal Krishna Goswami said to Srila Prabhupada that, I’m so busy serving you, what if the time of death comes and I’m just busy serving you? What will happen to me? And Srila Prabhupada replied, that Lord Chaitanya will come and forcibly enter your mind. So, there is hope of mercy, there is always hope of mercy.

Speaker: Thank you so much Maharaja for that amazing class and excellent explanation of mercy. Hare Krishna.

Speaker: Hare Krishna Guru Maharaja, my next question is [01:30:15 Inaudible]. So, my question is, as a preaching movement, the ISKCON, the Krishna movement, we make all kinds of people the criminals, the mafia, the ruffians, we don’t know who they are. . . we must also have some murderers to become devotees because they would have murdered somebody and they were not caught, they became devotees. So, [01:30:51 Inaudible] became devotees or they must be killed also, even in the next life?

Giriraj Swami: No, if they surrender to Krishna, He will free them from all sinful reaction, if they actually surrender and not just make a show. But if they actually surrender to Krishna, He will them from sinful reactions, they don’t have to be killed to be relieved of the sin of murder.

Speaker: So, in the purport, in the last paragraph, Prabhupada mentioned fighting to be executed by Arjuna at the instruction of Krishna is with full knowledge, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction. So, my question is, how do we know actually when to fight, that we are not going to enter into a sinful reaction?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if you do whatever you do under Krishna’s guidance, then there is no sinful reaction. If you act on your own account then you may be subject to sinful reactions, but if you act only on Krishna’s account, then there won’t be any sinful reactions. If you act only on Krishna’s account, means if you engage exclusively in devotional service.

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja. Indulekha devi dasi in the chat room is asking, so Hare Krishna, is it possible to get any advice? My brother ended his life yesterday, what can I do to help him now?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, I’m very sorry to hear that. Very sorry to hear that. Well, of course, you can pray for him, I’ll also pray for him and there is a ceremony called sraddha and so, you have a program and you invite devotees and you have kirtan and you feed them, you offer food and you offer that prasāda to a picture of your brother and that will help your brother in whatever situation he is in, and yeah, have kirtan, read Bhagavad-gītā and distribute prasāda to devotees. But you offer, as I mentioned, you offer prasāda to your brother’s picture and that will help him, yeah.

All right my dear devotees I. . .

Speaker: Thank you Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Spent a lot of time with you.

Speaker: Yeah Maharaja, thank you so much. We are grateful [01:34:30 Inaudible].

Giriraj Swami: I have to do something else right now, yeah, I think I have to take your leave now because of some commitment.

Speaker: yes, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: It was wonderful as usual and yeah, I wish you all the best and. . .

Speaker: We ask our devotees to kindly unmute themselves, let’s chant Hare Krishna to Maharaja. [01:35:05 Inaudible].

Giriraj Swami: He was directly ordered by Krishna, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the father of all living entities, well-wisher of all living entities. So, that was a special case but we are not condoning that anyone can, in the name of Jesus I’m killing you, in the name of Allah I’m killing you, in the name of Krishna I’m killing you. In that sense we should follow ahimsa, non-violence. So yes, everyone, let us pray for Indulekha Mataji’s brother and yeah, and having you as his sister, you who are a devotee, he’ll get special mercy I’m quite sure. Ok, thank you. So, let us end with Vaishnava praṇāms, I’ll say it in English and then we can say Sanskrit. Let us offer our respectful obeisances to all the Vaishnavas devotees of the Lord, who are just like desire trees who can fulfill the desires of everyone and are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls. [01:38:00 Inaudible].