Talk with Leading Russian Devotees on Guru-tattva

[Zoom meeting introduction]

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Okay. So, that was just a few words of introduction. And now, we’ll hand it over to Maharaja. Maharaja wants to begin with some kirtan, maṅgala-ācaraṇa, and like that. So, Maharaja, Giriraj Maharaja, please take over from here, the program is yours. So, you can go ahead.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you.

[Prayers and kirtan]

Giriraj Swami: Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja, I had all the questions on the dock of my computer, and then I put it somewhere else, and I can’t find it.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: I will have a look.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I glanced through our email correspondence but I couldn’t locate it.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Vrindarani, are you there?

Let me just have a quick look. Anyway, why don’t you say some words, Maharaja? For ten minutes or something, and I’m sure we’ll locate them. Yeah, here they are. Anyway, why don’t you just do like that, Maharaja? Okay. So, please go ahead.

Giriraj Swami: So, the general topic for today’s discussion is Guru, guru-tattva. And, the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu which Srila Prabhupada translated as The Nectar of Devotion is the handbook, the manual, or the law book for devotional service. And, there are four preliminary items of devotional service mentioned in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and also quoted in the Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 22.116, and they are:

guru-pādāśraya, dīkṣā, gurura sevana

sad-dharma-śikṣā-pṛcchā, sādhu-mārgānugamana

Which means: (1) One must accept a bona fide spiritual master. (2) One must accept initiation from him. (3) One must serve him. (4) One must receive instructions from the spiritual master and make inquiries in order to learn devotional service. And (5) one must follow in the footsteps of the previous ācāryas and follow the directions given by the spiritual master.

In The Nectar of Devotion itself, in Chapter Seven, “Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles,” one is accepting the shelter of a bona fide spiritual master which is the first in that guru-pādāśraya. And The Nectar of Devotion gives evidence, in fact, this Chapter is called, “Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles.” So, under, “Accepting the shelter of a bona fide spiritual master.” We read.

READING from The Nectar of Devotion (Chapter Seven)

ACCEPTING THE SHELTER OF A BONA FIDE SPIRITUAL MASTER

In the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Third Chapter, verse 21, Prabuddha tells Mahārāja Nimi, “My dear King, please know for certain that in the material world there is no happiness. It is simply a mistake to think that there is happiness here, because this place is full of nothing but miserable conditions. Any person who is seriously desirous of achieving real happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of a spiritual master is that he must have realized the conclusion of the scriptures by deliberation and arguments and thus be able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, are to be understood as bona fide spiritual masters. Everyone should try to find such a bona fide spiritual master in order to fulfill his mission of life, which is to transfer himself to the plane of spiritual bliss.”

COMMENT

So, all of us here have been blessed to have come in contact, directly or indirectly, with His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna consciousness, and the foundational śikṣā-guru for everyone in ISKCON. And, for some of us, our personal spiritual master. And certainly, he is a bona fide spiritual master as described in this section from The Nectar of Devotion. And we, his followers, simply repeat what we have learned from him, and help others to become connected with him. And, that is the best service we can do for anyone.

So, that was guru-pādāśraya, accepting the shelter of a bona fide spiritual master. Then dīkṣā, to take initiation from the spiritual master. And, that is described in The Nectar of Devotion.

READING (continued)

ACCEPTING INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND RECEIVING INSTRUCTIONS FROM HIM

Sage Prabuddha continued to speak to the king as follows: “My dear king, a disciple has to accept the spiritual master not only as spiritual master, but also as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the Supersoul. In other words, the disciple should accept the spiritual master as God, because he is the external manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. This is confirmed in every scripture, and a disciple should accept the spiritual master as such. One should learn Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam seriously and with all respect and veneration for the spiritual master. Hearing and speaking Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the religious process which elevates one to the platform of serving and loving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

COMMENT

So, that ends the quote of Sage Prabuddha. And Srila Prabhupada says:

READING (continued)

The attitude of the disciple should be to satisfy the bona fide spiritual master. Then it will be very easy for him to understand spiritual knowledge.

COMMENT

I think of one exchange between Srila Prabhupada and his disciple Gurukripa dasa. Srila Prabhupada asked Gurukripa, “What is the most important verse in the scripture?” Gurukripa replied, “harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā.” Then Srila Prabhupada responded, “No, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau.” That one who has, to one who has unflinching faith in the spiritual master, and a similar faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all the truths of the Vedas are revealed. And, Srila Prabhupada paraphrases this at the end of this statement under “Accepting initiation from the spiritual master.”

READING (continued)

This is confirmed in the Vedas, and Rūpa Gosvāmī will further explain that for a person who has unflinching faith in God and the spiritual master, everything becomes revealed very easily.

COMMENT

Then the next is “Serving the spiritual master with faith and confidence,” this is gurura sevana. And “Serving the spiritual master with faith and confidence” is described in The Nectar of Devotion as follows.

READING (continued)

SERVING THE SPIRITUAL MASTER WITH FAITH AND CONFIDENCE

Regarding serving the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, seventeenth chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Kṛṣṇa, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”

COMMENT

Now, one of the principles of accepting a spiritual master, and of a spiritual master accepting a disciple is what is called the mutual testing period. And, this is important. And, this is described in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, Chapter twenty-four, in which Lord Chaitanya gives instructions to Srila Sanatana Gosvami about how to write his book Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. And, Srila Prabhupada gives a very elaborate description of different items related to spiritual master. And, Text 330, Lord Chaitanya says:

TEXT 330

“Your book should describe the characteristics of the bona fide guru and the bona fide disciple. Then, before accepting a spiritual master, one can be assured of the spiritual master’s position. Similarly, the spiritual master can also be assured of the disciple’s position.

COMMENT

And, in the purport, Srila Prabhupada explains different qualifications of the bona fide spiritual master. And then because this part is not as often discussed, Srila Prabhupada writes.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the requirement is that one must be prepared to give up the four pillars of sinful life — illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. In Western countries especially, we first observe whether a potential disciple is prepared to follow the regulative principles. Then he is given the name of a Vaiṣṇava servant and initiated to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, at least sixteen rounds daily. In this way, the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representative for at least six months to a year. He is then recommended for a second initiation, during which a sacred thread is offered and the disciple is accepted as a bona fide brāhmaṇa. The qualifications of a bona fide disciple are described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.10.6) as follows:

COMMENT

And, listen very carefully, I’m also going to listen very carefully because this is what is expected of us as disciples.

PURPORT (continued)

amānya-matsaro dakṣo nirmamo dṛḍha-sauhṛdaḥ

asatvaro ‘rtha-jijñāsur anasūyur amogha-vāk

The disciple must have the following qualifications. He must give up interest in the material bodily conception. He must give up material lust, anger, greed, illusion, madness and envy. He should be interested only in understanding the science of God, and he should be ready to consider all points on this matter. He should no longer think, “I am this body,” or, “This thing belongs to me.” One must love the spiritual master with unflinching faith, and one must be very steady and fixed. The bona fide disciple should be inquisitive to understand transcendental subject matter. He must not search out faults among good qualities, and he should no longer be interested in material topics. His only interest should be Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

As far as the mutual testing of the spiritual master and disciple is concerned, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura explains that a bona fide disciple must be very inquisitive to understand the transcendental subject matter. As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.3.21):

tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam

“One who is inquisitive to understand the highest goal and benefit of life must approach a bona fide spiritual master and surrender unto him.”

COMMENT

And then, there’s more discussion about how the disciples should examine the spiritual master, and how the spiritual masters should examine the respective disciple. So, and then there’s this description of dīkṣā which is also important.

[Unintelligible 01:02:18] This is from. . . yes, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 108, in the purport, Srila Prabhupada writes:

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī explains dīkṣā in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

divyaṁ jñānaṁ yato dadyāt kuryāt pāpasya saṅkṣayam

tasmāt dīkṣeti sā proktā deśikais tattva-kovidaiḥ

“Dīkṣā is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as dīkṣā.”

COMMENT

So, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has commented that dīkṣā will give a boost to the new disciple, and it will propel him forward with his devotional service. But then he has to make his own efforts to maintain his progress on the path.

Now, have we been able to trace the questions?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: I sent them, Maharaja, they must be there.

Giriraj Swami: On my email?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, okay, great, I will check just now.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Both Gmail and Pamho, about five or ten minutes ago.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, I’m downloading your letter. That could, that’s it, that is it. We are in business. Oh, I had that, I didn’t recognize the title of it. Okay, so we are discussing dīkṣā and śikṣā, guru-tattva.

The first question is: what does it mean to be a dīkṣā or śikṣā-guru?

Well, we discussed dīkṣā, it means initiation, and śikṣā means instruction. And, Srila Prabhupada writes that generally, the person who instructs one on the path of devotional service will eventually initiate this person. I think of an interesting quote from Srila B.R. Sridhar Goswami Maharaja that I heard from Vaisesika Prabhu. And, he said that the guru captures the disciple by śikṣā, and the disciple captures the guru by dīkṣā because of the commitment involved in dīkṣā. And, as stated throughout the scriptures, one can have only one dīkṣā-guru but one can have many śikṣā-gurus.

And, a quote from Kṛṣṇa book, Chapter eighty, “The Meeting of Lord Kṛṣṇa with Sudāmā Brāhmaṇa.” This is a very important instruction for all of us.

READING from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead

 If a man.

COMMENT

This is Lord Krishna speaking with Sudama Brahmana.

READING (continued)

If a man is sufficiently educated in student life under the guidance of a proper teacher, his life becomes successful. My dear friend, everyone should consider his father to be his first teacher because by the mercy of one’s father one gets this body. Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master who instructs the disciple about spiritual matters is called the śikṣā-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called the dīkṣā-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one. A human being who takes advantage of these spiritual masters and, receiving proper knowledge from them, crosses the ocean of material existence is to be understood as having properly utilized his human form of life. He has practical knowledge that the ultimate interest of life, which is to be gained only in this human form, is to achieve spiritual perfection and thus be transferred back home, back to Godhead.

COMMENT

Now, there can be different degrees of spiritual masters, of a śikṣā-guru, different degrees of weight to the relationship. For example, every day we hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class, we hear Bhagavad-gītā class, we’re learning from some teacher who is a śikṣā-guru in a general sense. But then we may accept someone as a śikṣā-guru for ongoing instruction, he’s also a śikṣā-guru but the level of commitment is greater. And then ultimately, someone, one might accept someone as a śikṣā-guru as one’s mentor, and then be fully surrendered and devoted to him. So yeah, śikṣā-gurus are very important.

And sometimes, in the history of our movement, some devotees have commented that we were putting too much emphasis on the dīkṣā-guru only without giving enough importance to the śikṣā-gurus. And, that certainly could be the case. And, another interesting phenomenon we have in ISKCON is what people call parallel lines of authority. Devotees have their, you could say, managerial authorities in the structure of ISKCON, and then they have their spiritual authorities in the form of their spiritual master. And of course, we want to take care that these two lines of authorities do not come into conflict. And, I’m sure that any responsible guru will consult with the disciple’s managerial authorities to make sure that the instruction of the managerial authority and the instruction of the spiritual master are in harmony. And, that the disciple is not placed in an awkward position of receiving conflicting instructions from his spiritual master and ISKCON authority.

So now, coming back to the questions. dīkṣā and śikṣā, what does it mean to be a dīkṣā-guru and śikṣā-guru? We discussed that.

What are the difficulties on this path?

Well, I’m not sure, I guess they’re asking the question of what are the difficulties on this path in relation to the guru. Well, I refer to the basic definition of pure devotional service given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ. Anyābhilāṣ-śūnyaṁ would mean without any other desire. But Rupa Gosvami uses the suffix itā, Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ. And, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his commentary on Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu explains the significance of that suffix itā to mean that under ordinary circumstances, there are no other desires, but in extreme circumstances, there may be another desire. And, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura gives the example that if someone is being attacked with deadly weapons, he may pray for the protection of his body, and then also maybe for Krishna’s service. So that, but still it could be said, “Well, that’s a material desire.” But, so under ordinary circumstances, the devotee does not have any material desire, but in extreme circumstances temporarily, you may pray for some material protection.

So, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, and pure devotional service is not covered by theoretical philosophical speculation and karma—fruitive work, anādy - or any of those things. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu, ānukūl means it should be favorable to Krishna’s pleasure. And Krishna, Srila Prabhupada elaborately discusses what Krishna means in this verse, in his introduction to The Nectar of Devotion. And, Srila Prabhupada actually, without saying so, quotes extensively from the commentaries of Srila Jiva Gosvami and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his introduction to The Nectar of Devotion. And, he explains that Krishna means Krishna and all His expansions, His names, His forms, His pastimes, His paraphernalia, and His pure devotees, they’re all included in Krishna.

So, what are the difficulties on this path? I would say that the difficulty, not difficulty really, challenge maybe is to engage in pure devotional service, be pure devotees, and engage in pure devotional service as defined by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

12) How to maintain humility in the status of a guru?

Well, first of all, I think Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said that if you think you are a guru, you are a gouru, if you think you are a guru, you are a cow. Yeah, we don’t think we are gurus, but consider ourselves humble servants of Srila Prabhupada and the paramparā, trying to teach our students, and engage our students according to what we’ve learned from Srila Prabhupada and the paramparā.

13) Srila Prabhupada’s example as a dīkṣā-guru.

Well, I sort of mentioned how he conducted himself in terms of accepting disciples, requiring the recommendation of the temple president, and having the candidate follow chanting sixteen rounds, and adhering to the four regulated principles for at least six months to a year.

14) Can disciples of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples become dīkṣā-gurus to give shelter to new devotees? Gurus are overloaded, how to do it efficiently?

Well, this is a sort of complicated question because Srila Prabhupada has said the general etiquette is that a disciple will not initiate in the presence of his spiritual master, so that is the general etiquette. But we find historically, in the Gaudiya sampradāya, there were instances when a disciple of a guru accepted disciples in his own right, of course, with the blessings of his guru. And, we do have some examples in ISKCON. For example, His Holiness Kadamba Kanana Swami is a disciple of Jayadvaita Swami, but Kadamba Kanana Swami also accepts disciples.

So, can the disciples of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples become dīkṣā-gurus to give shelter to new devotees? Well, I mean obviously that would be the case after their guru departs. But I’ve discussed a more special case about when the guru, their guru is still present, of the possibility of their giving shelter to new devotees.

Gurus are overloaded, how to do it efficiently? Well, I would say, by mutual consultation.

15) Is there any sense in choosing a guru? What is the point of choosing a guru?

Well, I would say that it’s very important to choose a guru. We discussed a little about that mutual testing period, and one should hear what different gurus speak, or one should observe different gurus, and one should approach someone to become one’s spiritual master when one has awakened faith in that devotee.

Should there be physical contact? I mean ideally yes, but not necessarily, especially in these days of covid when devotees and gurus are not traveling, the relationship can be based mainly on hearing. In any case, it would be based mainly on hearing from the gurus.

And, Srila Prabhupada has made some nice statements about how the relationship with the spiritual master is established from the first time he hears. And, Srila Prabhupada gave his example that he met his spiritual master, and at their first meeting, his spiritual master instructed him to preach Krishna consciousness in the western world. And, Srila Prabhupada said that the eternal relation with the spiritual master was established then. And now, as Prabhupada said, it is coming to fact. He is following that instruction by preaching Krishna consciousness.

So, should there be a physical contact? I would say, ideally yes. It’s not exactly from our tradition, but I’ll quote it anyway from the, it’s something from the Jewish tradition that two students of a rabbi were talking about. One of the students said that he wanted to live with the rabbi, and the other student asked, “Why?” The first student said, “Because I want to see how he ties his shoelaces.” The purport is that he wanted to observe the rabbi, how he conducts his life. So, in that way, should there be physical contact? In that way, yes, if we have that opportunity to personally serve the spiritual master and observe him, we should take advantage of it.

One of the disciples does not see his guru at all. It’s not in my opinion ideal, but it’s possible because again the relationship is based on hearing and following the instructions. Even our beloved Srila Prabhupada did not have that much physical association with his spiritual master, but he took his instructions to heart and executed them, and became say the most glorious disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

16) Is initiation necessary? After all, it is the Holy Name that gives liberation.

Now, this is a good question, and I have the answer from Srila Prabhupada’s books. So, this again is from Lord Chaitanya’s instructions to Srila Sanatana Gosvami in terms of his writing in Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. And yes, this is [Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya 15],

TEXT 108

dīkṣā-puraścaryā-vidhi apekṣā nā kare

jihvā-sparśe ā-caṇḍāla sabāre uddhāre

One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [caṇḍāla] can be delivered.

COMMENT

So, this addresses question sixteen, is initiation necessary? After all, it is the Holy Name that gives liberation. So, the translation supports the idea.

TRANSLATION

“One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [caṇḍāla] can be delivered.

COMMENT

But in the purport, Srila Prabhupada quotes many statements about initiation, including the one I read earlier, Jiva Gosvami’s definition of dīkṣā in Bhakti-sandarbha.

And then, this raises the question of deity worship because definitely to engage in deity worship, one has to be initiated, of course, we would say twice-initiated. And, in this purport, very long elaborate purport, Srila Prabhupada says:

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada 

In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283–284), Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī describes the importance of Deity worship and initiation (dīkṣā) as follows:

COMMENT

And, there’s a long Sanskrit, whole prose, quotation, and then the translation is:

PURPORT (continued)

“It is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam’s opinion that the process of Deity worship is not actually necessary, just as the specific prescriptions of the Pañcarātra and other scriptures do not have to be followed. The Bhāgavatam enjoins that even without practicing Deity worship one can achieve the complete success of human life by any of the other devotional processes, such as simply offering oneself at the Lord’s feet for His protection. Nonetheless, Vaiṣṇavas following the path of Śrī Nārada and his successors endeavor to establish a personal relationship with the Lord by receiving the grace of a bona fide spiritual master through initiation, and in this tradition, the devotees are obliged at the time of initiation to begin engaging in Deity worship.

“Although Deity worship is not essential, the material conditioning of most candidates for devotional service requires that they engage in this activity. When we consider their bodily and mental conditions, we find that the character of such candidates is impure and their minds are agitated. Therefore, to rectify this material conditioning the great sage Nārada and others have at different times recommended various kinds of regulations for Deity worship.”

COMMENT

So, it’s quite a balanced discussion. In this purport, Srila Prabhupada quotes the Rāmārcana-candrikā which states:

PURPORT (continued)

“O best of the brāhmaṇas, even without initiation, preliminary purification or acceptance of the renounced order, one can attain perfection in devotional service simply by chanting the holy name.”

COMMENT

But then Srila Prabhupada comments.

PURPORT (continued)

In other words, the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on official initiation, but if one is initiated and engages in pañcarātra-vidhi (Deity worship), his Kṛṣṇa consciousness will awaken very soon, and his identification with the material world will be vanquished.

COMMENT

So, it is a good question here, and again Srila Prabhupada very elaborately discussed the issue, especially in this verse and purport. Is initiation necessary? After all, it is the Holy Name that gives liberation.

And, what does it mean, inner and outer aspects of initiation? I suppose it means that outwardly one follows all the regulated principles, and chants the Holy Name then internally, one is, one surrenders heart and soul to the spiritual master.

17) What is the role of a śikṣā-guru in a disciple’s life? What is his cooperation with the dīkṣā-guru?

I discussed this, that a śikṣā-guru could be very prominent in the disciple’s life, and that ideally the śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru should work cooperatively for the benefit of the disciple so that they don’t give contradictory instructions to the disciple, and put the disciple in an awkward position.

18) What is the role, understanding, and paradigm of a śikṣā-guru? Is he a philosopher, a mentor, an elder brother, a friend?

Well as I discussed earlier, there are different definitions of śikṣā-gurus, or different degrees of significance of the śikṣā-guru, and the śikṣā disciple’s life. But he can certainly be all of these: philosopher, certainly philosopher, mentor, elder brother, friend, he could be all of those.

19) Narhari Sarkar in the Shri-Krishna-bhajanamrita emphasizes the role of a guru in a disciple’s life as someone who takes full responsibility for his spiritual life, and return to the spiritual world, he is the main śikṣā-guru in a disciple’s life.

True, generally. He gives him initiation into chanting the Holy Name and the Gayatri mantras. He is a disciple’s connection with the paramparā, and the line of [Unintelligible 01:36:15]. All this puts him in an exclusive position, true. But at the same time, all the other śikṣā-gurus help him in this regard, and accept a subordinate position. Moreover, he has the right to regulate who his disciples can address for guidance, and either approve someone as the śikṣā-guru or lead his disciple to take the leadership from this devotee. At the same time, the distribution of spiritual knowledge is based on śikṣā.

10) Can one of the śikṣā-gurus start playing a more important role in a disciple’s life or take full responsibility for his return to the spiritual world?

Yes.

What are the mechanisms regulating such relationships between dīkṣā-gurus, śikṣā-gurus, and disciples?

As we discussed, there should be a very wholesome, and harmonious, and cooperative relationship between the dīkṣā-gurus and śikṣā-gurus.

Can we accept a situation when dīkṣā becomes only a formality? A sort of a ritual to be accepted into the organization, and a dīkṣā-guru is assigned a secondary role?

Well, in my opinion, it would not be proper to accept dīkṣā as a formality, to be accepted into ISKCON, I don’t, I find it hard to imagine a dīkṣā-guru accepting a disciple who just wanted to share the formality so that he had a status in ISKCON.

Is this topic being discussed by the ISKCON management?

I don’t know, it hasn’t come to my attention.

So now, we come to the last question:

20) There is a guru-savior and a guru-assistant, what is the role of a guru-assistant?

Well, I mean the guru is supposed to be the savior of the disciple. Guru-assistant, I don’t know if that refers to śikṣā-guru, maybe it refers to a śikṣā-guru who’s assisting the work of the dīkṣā-guru in delivering the disciple.

I think the main thing here is to be sincere. One who’s not sincere, one can find many loopholes in the system. Srila Prabhupada used to quote the saying, “Drinking water underwater on a fasting day.” It means that one can go to the river or the lake to take a bath on a fasting day, [Unintelligible 01:40:15] fast. And then while underneath the water, drink water. In other words, cheat, cheat on the fast. So that’s called drinking water underwater on a fasting day. So we can always cheat. So it really depends on our sincerity. But if we’re sincere, Srila Prabhupada will arrange for us to get the guidance we need to be firmly connected in our relationship with him and make a significant progress on the path of pure devotional service, back to home, back to Godhead.

So yeah, I mean we should have faith in Srila Prabhupada. I think of those who follow Srila Prabhupada, and I have every hope for those who are connected to those who follow Srila Prabhupada that they will, if they’re sincere and serious, and follows [Unintelligible 01:41:39] make wonderful projects, increase consciousness and ultimately to go back home, back to Godhead.

So, I’ve tried to address the questions on the list. And if we have time, and devotees have interest, they can ask questions. And, because this program is designed especially for the leading devotees in Russia, we won’t entertain questions from other devotees, at least not until all the devotees from Russia have a chance to ask questions or make comments if they have it.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: So, let me just make a comment. Madan Mohan Prabhu?

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Yes, Maharaja.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: You can ask if the devotees have any questions they want to place right now?

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Yes, Maharaja. How do you and Giriraj Maharaja, both of you want the devotees to ask their questions? Only here or by typing them in the chat? What’s the best, Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: I could say orally.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Okay.

Giriraj Swami: Generally, I would like the devotees to put on their cameras.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: So, you can see them.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Sure, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Even if they are not asking question,

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Sorry, Maharaja, [Unintelligible 01:45:05] we spoke in Russian, we just discussed what [Unintelligible 01:45:07] question we should ask you. Because so many different questions but actually our main point, what is going on with the second generation? Our third generation gives some [Unintelligible 01:45:19] second generation by śikṣā, [Unintelligible 01:45:22], is my main point, not even dīkṣā but śikṣā. main point [Unintelligible 01:45:27].

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:45:55].

Devotee: Please accept my humble obeisances, Maharaja. Hare Krishna.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: [Unintelligible 01:47:37], he’s responsible for a large geographic area, as a [Unintelligible 01:47:54] his question is twofold. First question is if the authorities, śikṣā authorities or administrative authorities in ISKCON, should encourage or [Unintelligible 01:48:11] devotees towards accepting dīkṣā as soon as possible? Is there such a thing as he said—the urgency of accepting initiation? Or the leading devotees or authorities [Unintelligible 01:48:31] should let aspiring devotees or aspiring disciples decide themselves as to how long they would like to wait till accepting initiation?

And, related to the first question, the second question is whether a devotee without accepting yet a formal initiation can still make spiritual progress? Or his spiritual, her spiritual progress starts only from the point of actually accepting initiation? Because [Unintelligible 01:48:59] to a discussion that they had on that topic recently, and notice from both sides of the issue quote a different [Unintelligible 01:49:09], but seemingly supported both sides of that discussion. That the devotee does not make significant spiritual progress without accepting initiation first or that he or she does make spiritual progress without, or prior to accepting initiation?

So that’s the question twofold, whether we should encourage devotees to accept the initiation as soon as possible or whether devotees just decide on their own? The second, whether the devotee makes any significant spiritual progress without initiation?

Giriraj Swami: I would say that you should give the devotees time to develop faith in someone as a spiritual master, and when their faith is mature, approach the person to become their spiritual master. I don’t think you should rush them or [Unintelligible 01:50:03] them.

And, as far as whether a devotee can make appreciable advancement without being initiated, I would say, yes. But it would depend on the reason why the devotee is not initiated. If the devotee has an offensive mentality towards Vaishnavas, and therefore is reluctant to take initiation, then he might not make much progress. But if the devotee appreciates the other Vaishnavas, but just isn’t sure to whom he wants to approach to become his dīkṣā-guru, then yes he can make a lot of progress. And, in that humble mood, he would be thinking of the others as śikṣā-gurus. And, with the encouragement of and under the guidance of the other devotees who are śikṣā-gurus, he can make a lot of progress before initiation.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Thank you very much, Maharaja. And next is Mataji Rukmini Priya, who also plays a significant role in giving śikṣā to many devotees especially in southern Russia. She and her husband Adirasa Prabhu are playing a very important role in ISKCON leadership. And Maharaja, this Rukmini Priya is also an assigned śikṣā-guru for many disciples of [Unintelligible 01:52:08]. So, she would like to ask a question.

Rukmini Priya: [Question in Russian]

Madan Mohan Prabhu [translating]: Please accept my humble obeisances, Maharaja. Rukmini Priya is saying. Her question is about the methodology, the mechanism of succession, spiritual succession in ISKCON. What are the methods, and the proper path way of making sure that the instructions, and the mood of Srila Prabhupada is handed down properly from the previous generation of his direct disciples, like yourself with Bhakti Caitanya Maharaja, to the next generation of devotees who will take responsibility for Srila Prabhupada’s mission? Is there any such consistent or well thought out mechanism or happens just spontaneously? Like in the form of our conference right now. Just happens, or is there any particular deliberate mechanism to make sure that the succession is implemented? Or empowerment comes also with the succession?

Giriraj Swami: I don’t know about any official mechanisms, but I strongly suggest that all generations of devotees become very steeped in, or deeply involved in Srila Prabhupada’s mood and mission. And, I recommend every devotee should read Srila Prabhupada Līlāmṛta.

I remember, I was the temple president in Juhu, Bombay, when Srila Prabhupada Līlāmṛta first came out, and so many of our friends came to me and said that they never really understood Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON until they read Srila Prabhupada Līlāmṛta, and that having read Srila Prabhupada Līlāmṛta, they can appreciate Srila Prabhupada’s books on a deeper level. So, Srila Prabhupada Līlāmṛta, I think should be required reading. And, there are other books, so many wonderful books now by Srila Prabhupada’s disciples about him. And, there’s also Yadubara Prabhu’s video series, Following Srila Prabhupada, you can really learn a lot about Srila Prabhupada from watching those videos.

I remember once, it was shortly after Srila Prabhupada left, and I think in those days, we didn’t even have videos, but we had these Fairchild projectors, it was like an incredible projector that you could show movies on. So, a new person, I mean new to Krishna consciousness, he was an adult, he’s a lawyer. So he saw this movie, and as soon as he saw Srila Prabhupada, he said, “My God, I’ve never seen anyone like him.”

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Excuse me, Maharaja, [Unintelligible 01:56:63].

Giriraj Swami: Yes, he was a lawyer, he was becoming a [Unintelligible 01:57:06].

Madan Mohan Prabhu: So that’s [Unintelligible 01:57:14], thank you.

Giriraj Swami: So when he saw Srila Prabhupada, he said, “My God, I’ve never seen anyone like him, because he’s so full of love, and at the same time, he’s so detached. Usually, the two don’t go together. If someone’s detached, they don’t have any love. And, if someone has love, they’re attached.” And, he immediately saw that just from looking at Srila Prabhupada for a few moments. “My God, I’ve never seen anyone like this, it’s so much love and so detached.”

So yeah, I think for all generations to come in ISKCON, they should be deeply steeped in Srila Prabhupada. Of course, reading his books, and yeah reading books about him. I remember His Holiness Mukunda Goswami commenting on how important the books are. He gave the example, he was saying how important the books are about Srila Prabhupada, and he gave the example of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta was about Lord Chaitanya, and the Six Gosvamis, and others. And, that book is practically more important than the books by the Gosvamis.

So, you’re saying about the importance of books about Srila Prabhupada. And yeah, we should just immerse ourselves in Srila Prabhupada. This is for all generations in the future of ISKCON, so that we can carry on the paramparā. Yeah.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Giriraj Maharaja, next is a [Unintelligible 02:00:21] leading spiritual and administrative leaders in ISKCON Russia.

Drawing upon his own experience and observations, Bhakti Bhagavatamrita Keshav Maharaja says that the trend, the observable trend is that before initiation, the devotees are very inspired and enthusiastic, and they will do a lot of service, they are very active in devotional service. But once they become initiated, somehow their enthusiasm often fades. And, Maharaja is wondering if there is anything that we could do as leaders, spiritual and administrative, to keep the devotees encouraged and inspired even past their initiation.

Giriraj Swami: It’s a good question. It reminds me, I mean, it’s not really comparable but it reminds me of an observation that one of Srila Prabhupada’s friends in Bombay made, very intelligent man. And, what he said was that when people come to the temple who are not life members, the devotees pay them a lot of attention to get them to become life members. And then once they’re life members, the devotees don’t pay so much attention to them anymore.

So yeah, so yeah, so a new initiate, I mean so before initiation, these devotees are very enthusiastic. Then after they’re initiated, they’re not so enthusiastic which suggests that, well I haven’t come across this question before, so I don’t know whether what I’m going to say is which is actually correct. But I’m just thinking out loud that they may have, they may not be so motivated to do service, but they’re more motivated to get initiated. And then when they’re initiated, they think, Well now, I’ve made it, I’ve got my initiation [Unintelligible 02:03:51].

But they, we should be eager to serve obviously, and what can we as leaders do to encourage the devotees to be enthusiastic after initiation? I would say that the main thing is to preach so that they’re convinced of the benefit they get by rendering devotional service. It’s not a material process that you put on a good show and then you get initiated, and then you don’t have to put on the show anymore. But we have to make them understand that this is their constitutional position, jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya-kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’, you are eternal servants of Krishna. And, they can only be happy, that with the service, they can only be happy, and increase Krishna consciousness. And, if they’re holding back, say, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante, if we surrender to Krishna, Krishna reciprocates accordingly. So, if you give yourself a 100 percent for Krishna, Krishna will give Himself 100 percent for you. If you give yourself 2 percent for Krishna, Krishna will give Himself 2 percent for you.

So, they have to understand that serving is in their interest, they benefit in serving Krishna.

Yeah, I think of our late great god-brother Jayananda Prabhu. If someone wouldn’t show up to do their service, he would tell the other devotees, “Guess what Prabhus good news, so and so didn’t come to do his service, so there’s more service for us, Haribol!” And he wasn’t just saying it, he really meant it, and he felt it. He had that much appreciation for the opportunity to serve, for the privilege to serve. So, devotees should have that.

Hare Krishna.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Giriraj Maharaja, Hare Krishna. Giri Gauranga Prabhu has offered his obeisances to you. And his wife, Kaveri Mataji, both of them are leading a very extensive network of Bhakti-vriksha centers and communities in Russia, and elsewhere [Unintelligible 02:08:59]. And, his question is about a preacher who is a śikṣā-guru of many devotees. And, some of them, many of them would like to take dīkṣā from that particular preacher, but he doesn’t have the authorization to be a dīkṣā-guru for these devotees, or a dīkṣā-guru in general. So, what he does is that he refers them to his own dīkṣā-guru who is well and physically present. And so, they could be initiated by the dīkṣā-guru of that particular preacher which works for some or many, and they do act on the suggestion as advised to take dīkṣā from the dīkṣā-guru of the particular preacher. But some of them prefer not to do that, and they prefer to wait until that particular preacher gets the authorization to initiate them [Unintelligible 02:09:55]. And so, the [Unintelligible 02:09:58].

Thank you.

So, the question is, if this particular approach to this situation is valid and sound? Even if for instance if he could encourage, continuing encouraging the devotees to continue taking initiation from his own dīkṣā-guru even if they don’t feel that strong connection with the dīkṣā-guru of that particular preacher. Saying that while he is present you can take dīkṣā from him and śikṣā from me. Or should the preacher encourage devotees to support him, and their inspiration to keep on waiting until he gets the authorization to initiate on his own, if it at last happens?

Giriraj Swami: That’s a good question.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: And, his spiritual master, Giri Gauranga Prabhu also added that this spiritual master, the particular preacher supports his approach to the situation telling him that, “Yes, you can remain their śikṣā-guru, and primary śikṣā-guru and I will be their dīkṣā-guru. What should be done? Or what should be the approach of the devotees who still [Unintelligible 02:11:12]? Or wait until he gets the permission necessary to initiate?

Giriraj Swami: What should be whose approach?

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Approach of the preacher, Maharaja, the preacher who is the śikṣā-guru but he can’t initiate as of yet.

Giriraj Swami: If they are nourished in their relationship with him as their śikṣā-guru, and they don’t feel a need to be initiated, I suppose, it’s all right. But as we’ve discussed, although you can get everything from the Holy Name, there is a function to be initiated. And, I think it would be better if they were initiated. But is the issue of his not initiating that his spiritual master still alive? I suppose so.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Is this a question, Maharaja? Would you like to clarify with Giri Gauranga Prabhu? [speaks in Russian] No, the physical presence of his spiritual master is not necessarily the only or the most, I don’t want to use the word obstacle, but the factor that prevents him from being the dīkṣā-guru for his own right. But especially because the process of authorization of second generation dīkṣā-gurus has already begun at ISKCON. But he doesn’t know if the process will be fast enough to get to that particular devotee to authorize him while he is physically present.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t, I mean it seems to me that it’s a good arrangement that the devotees are encouraged to take dīkṣā from his dīkṣā-guru with the understanding that he’ll be their main śikṣā-guru. And, the others who are waiting, they’re waiting in the hopes that they can get dīkṣā from himself, is that the idea?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: That’s the idea, yeah.

[Unintelligible 02:15:25]

Giriraj Swami: I think that’s alright, if someone wants to wait.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: How much time Maharaja? Do you, are you okay to just carry on, or do you have a time limit?

Giriraj Swami: I have no time limit.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: That’s nice, that’s very nice. There are some questions in the chat actually.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, okay.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: How many? There’s two. Do you want to take those or are other devotees putting their hands up already outside the chat?

Madan Mohan Prabhu: It’s actually the same question, Maharaja, asked twice, and I don’t know who the devotee asking that question is because Giriraj Maharaja prefer to answer questions from the US leaders first. [Unintelligible 02:17:04] English.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: I think, well, the one. . .

Madan Mohan Prabhu: That’s what was sent to me [Unintelligible 02:17:08], that’s why I can see both the publicly asked question, and the question asked of me, I mean sent to me directly. Shall I read that question out?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yeah.

Translator: Giriraj Maharaja, I think you can read it on your screen, or shall I read it out for you?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Read it out.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: The question is [Unintelligible 02:17:28], what does one do if they are following all regulations and chanting sixteen rounds, but the temple management is not so favorable of that devotee for some reason, and it keeps turning down the initiation request [Unintelligible 02:17:44] eventually get dīkṣā [Unintelligible 02:17:45]?

Shall I translate it into Russian, Maharaja? If you want to answer that question, I don’t know who that question is asked by.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: It’s okay, you translate it.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Okay.

Giriraj Swami: Ordinarily, the temple authority has to recommend the devotee to get the initiation. The devotee should ask, “What do I have to do for you to recommend me?” And then the authority can say, “This is what I want you to do for me to recommend you.” And then it’s off the personal level in a sense, and it should result in everyone being happy and satisfied.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Is that okay?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 02:19:37].

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yeah, it’s from a Russian devotee.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: It is another question that was found through Bhakti Caitanya Maharaja by a Russian devotee. Is it possible for a devotee to play an administrative role in a yatra, and not be initiated for years excusing oneself that taking vows is such a huge responsibility. I guess the devotee explains his reluctance to accept initiation by saying that if one takes the initiation of vows, it’s too much of a responsibility for him or her. And, is it possible for such a devotee to play an administrative role in the yatra then?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the devotee should play an administrative role, but I would think that as an example for other devotees. . .

Madan Mohan Prabhu: I’m sorry, Maharaja. Can I repeat the question in Russian before you answer it? So, devotees can understand the question. [Translation in Russian]

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I would say that that devotee should take initiation to set an example for others. If the devotee can feel confident that he can follow the four principles and chant sixteen rounds minimum, and if he can, then I would say he should take initiation, to strengthen his position as an administrator and to set a good example for the other devotees.

But did you translate my answer?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yeah, he’s doing it simultaneously.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, okay.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yeah. So, go to Gaur Krishna Prabhu, go ahead.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Next is Gaur Krishna Prabhu who is the director of [Unintelligible 02:22:54].

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Thank you for your association and sharing your experience with us, and especially that you worked directly for Prabhupada and just all your answers are from Prabhupada’s books. And, if you don’t mind, I’m ask a question in Russian that is most comfortable for me.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: Gaur Krishna Prabhu’s question continues the topic of succession, a spiritual succession in ISKCON. He says that most of the questions about spiritual succession come from the phenomena that we are facing now in Russia, for instance that there is a drastic increase of the number of devotees who join our movement in Russia due to our preaching. And of course, naturally, they need spiritual guidance, and they would ideally like to take initiation from those who become their prominent and consistent instructors. On the other hand, of course, without the etiquette that one cannot [Unintelligible 02:26:01] his spiritual master, physical presence of spiritual master. So, that’s one aspect that we’re dealing with in Russia, and we have to find the balance between these two equally valid considerations.

But going by Srila Prabhupada’s example, Srila Prabhupada also faced a very similar dilemma because he was just a single spiritual master dīkṣā-guru for the entire world in ISKCON. And, we could see how he delegated many aspects of his initiation function to many of his trusted disciples, he would request them to chant the beads of many devotees, he would ask them to pick their names, he would even ask them to give the Gayatri mantras through the tape that he gave to them. And, in doing that, Srila Prabhupada was seen as increasingly handing over many aspects of initiation to his leading devotees, leading disciples.

The question Gaur Krishna Prabhu has is, what did Srila Prabhupada retain as his exclusive right, exclusive function, in what seems to be an ongoing and substantial delegation of responsibilities for the dīkṣā process? What was kept by him as his own exclusive right if anything? Especially towards the end of his physical presence because that, his rationale is that would be a model for current dīkṣā-gurus as well [Unintelligible 02:27:30].

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Just one amendment. What Prabhupada delegated, and what did he keep for himself?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the one thing he didn’t delegate was the responsibility for the disciple. And, that’s really the essence that the spiritual master takes responsibility to deliver the disciple back home, back to Godhead. And yeah, the chanting on beads, and performing the fire ceremony, choosing the names, I don’t, I mean that he did let his disciples choose the names, but he would be aware of the name. So yeah, I think that essence, that sort of the contract, that the spiritual master keeps responsibility for delivering the disciple back to Krishna, and the disciple vows to chant a minimum of sixteen rounds, and follow the four regulated principles. That was not delegated, that could not be delegated.

And at the end, Prabhupada did appoint some disciples to initiate on his behalf, but they were still Prabhupada’s disciples. But because of his poor health, yeah, he didn’t do much personally.

There was one man from Calcutta, I think, Bengal, who came to Prabhupada in Vrindavan and wanted to be initiated, this is towards the end. And, Srila Prabhupada said , “Jayapataka is there in Bengal, and you can initiate him,” but on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, he would still be a Srila Prabhupada’s disciple.

Yes, I mean I think, yeah, it could be sort of a model. But I think having more disciples initiate in the presence of their spiritual master as we have in the case of His Holiness Kadamba Kanana Swami initiating in the presence of His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami. I think that could be useful and helpful. As I mentioned, historically there are many cases in our Gaudiya Vaishnava lifestyle tradition in which the disciples initiated in the presence of their gurus. But there are different models, I mean, I agree different models could work. And, if that one is too controversial or too unorthodox, it doesn’t have to be that one.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: [Unintelligible 02:34:11], and so the question is a continuation of the questions asked by both Giri Gauranga Prabhu and Mataji Kaveri and [unintelligible]Prabhu, in a sense that as [Unintelligible 02:34:29] the situation in which the preacher [Unintelligible 02:34:33] who takes responsibility for a group of devotees becomes their primary śikṣā-guru but he can’t initiate [Unintelligible 02:34:40], his dīkṣā-guru and they get initiated by him while he remains their primary or principal śikṣā-guru.

So, the question is who is taking responsibility or the primary responsibility for their deliverance? Is it the dīkṣā-guru who formally initiates them or the śikṣā-guru who is actually deciding their guru but he just doesn’t initiate? In that case, who is the primary savior who takes full responsibility for their deliverance? Or is it shared?

Giriraj Swami: I would say, it’s shared. I mean the dīkṣā-guru has a responsibility even if it’s more of a formality because his disciple can’t initiate in its presence. But still, if he gives dīkṣā, he’s responsible. But then again, his disciple who’s the primary śikṣā-guru for the devotee, is also responsible. So, I would say, it’s a shared responsibility. And, but in any case, the disciple who’s the śikṣā-guru has a responsibility to his dīkṣā-guru as his servant, so this is like a double responsibility. As it is he has a responsibility to serve his dīkṣā-guru in any case. And, in this case, he has the added responsibility because he is the main śikṣā-guru of that devotee. And so, he has a particular responsibility to guide that devotee back to Godhead. So yeah, it’s shared. But I think, yeah, it’s shared.

Madan Mohan Prabhu: [Unintelligible 02:38:05], so his question is a concluding one. He says that, if he understood the answers properly he just wants to reiterate it, and reconfirm it with you. As far as the experience of succession for us to [Unintelligible 02:38:28], and become steeped in the, for us to become successful in our roles as the future next generation of spiritual and administrative leaders, we must become steeped and must imbibe the mood Srila Prabhupada by reading his books, and by the books about him. And, that’s how we can assure that, we can ensure that the succession will be successfully implemented.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, but I would add to that seeing the videos of Srila Prabhupada, especially Yadubara Prabhu’s series Following Srila Prabhupada, it has all the footage of Srila Prabhupada, and you can really learn a lot. Like they say one picture is worth a thousand words, so you can get a lot from seeing those videos.

But otherwise, I agree with his reiteration and confirmation of my message.

Devotee: Thank you very much, Maharaja. [Unintelligible 02:39:55]. That’s really nice. [Unintelligible 02:40:05]. Thank you very much, Maharaja. I think we should finish [Unintelligible 02:40:26].

Giriraj Swami: Okay. If we are going to end, I suggest we conclude by offering Vaishnava Pranam.

Devotee: And also thank you, Bhakti Caitanya Maharaja, thank you very much for organizing this session for us with Giriraj Maharaja.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Well, we hope that we can have another session in the not-too-distant future.

Devotee: I hope so. [Unintelligible 02:41:08].

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Okay, Maharaja, will you lead us in Vaishnava Pranam?

Giriraj Swami: Okay. But first, I want to show all the devotees the wonderful bead bag arranged for me. It shows all the members of the Pancha-tattva in front of Lord Jagannatha. It's a masterpiece, it probably came from Russia.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Saint Petersburg.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, really?

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Yeah.

Giriraj Swami: It’s one of my most cherished bead bags. All right, so yes.

Devotee: And now that [Unintelligible 02:41:59] is very wonderful your new books [Unintelligible 02:42:02].

Giriraj Swami: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Devotee: We already heard about these big books.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Must be translated into Russian also.

Devotee: It would be nice, it would be nice.

Giriraj Swami: All right. Let us offer, I’ll say it in English, and then we’ll say it in Sanskrit.

“I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord. They are just like desire trees and can fulfill the desires of everyone, and they are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls.”

Vâñchâ-kalpatarubhyas’ ca kripâ-sindhubhya eva ca

patitânâm pâvanebhyo vaishnavebhyo namo namah

Ananta koti Vaishnava Vrinda ki jaya.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya.

Devotee: Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya.

His Holiness Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja ki jaya.

Thank you so much, Giriraj Maharaja.

Giriraj Maharaja: Thank you.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Devotee: Thank you.

HH Bhakti Caitanya Swami Maharaja: Hare Krishna.