SB 1.2.18 – Serving a Person Bhagavata

Giriraj Swami: We shall read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto One, Chapter Two, Divinity and Divine Service, Text Eighteen.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Bhaktiraja, can you get the Bhāgavatam from my table?

TEXT 18

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

TRANSLATION

By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

COMMENT

This verse is very important and it has a personal significance to me because when we were serving Srila Prabhupada in India in 1971, in Calcutta, Srila Prabhupada was keeping us so busy in service that I didn’t have time to read his books and I was feeling guilty.

So, one day, I was sitting in front of him in his room in Calcutta, that room is still there, and I didn’t say anything about my not reading, but Srila Prabhupada must have read my mind and he quoted this verse and he said that by serving the person Bhagavat, you get the same result as by reading the book Bhāgavata, and all the truths of the book Bhāgavata will be revealed to you, even if you do not read the book.

Of course, under ordinary circumstances, we do want to read the Bhāgavatam, and in many letters, Srila Prabhupada advised his followers to read for one hour a day, sometimes he recommended that we read for three hours a day. So, we want to read. But at that time in India, Srila Prabhupada had us so fully engaged that I really didn’t have time to read, and he quoted this verse, and he said that by serving the person Bhagavat, you get all the results of reading the book Bhāgavata, and all the truths of the book Bhāgavata will be revealed to you.

And there is a related verse, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, that to one who has unflinching faith in the spiritual master and similar faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all the truths of the Vedas are revealed. So now, we’ll read the purport.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart, which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization.

COMMENT

So, what are the inauspicious things in the heart, abhadreṣu? The first is identifying with the body. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu praised, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, that by performance of saṅkīrtana, the dirt is cleansed from the mirror of the mind, or heart. And Srila Prabhupada raises the question, what are those dirty things? And the first dirty thing or misconception is identifying with the body. And once we identify with the body, we engage in so many activities for the benefit of the body or the senses, but actually, these activities are inauspicious.

PURPORT (continued)

Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart, which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

COMMENT

Now, it is important that we receive the book Bhāgavata from the person Bhagavat. There was a poet from Bengal, who came to Jagannatha Puri to read his poetic composition to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And the rule was that anyone who wanted to read a composition to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu first had to place it before Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s personal secretary, Svarupa Damodara Gosvami.

So, the poet from Bengal made mistakes in his poetry, and Svarupa Damodara Gosvami advised him, bhāgavata paro diya bhāgavata sthane, one should hear and study the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the person Bhagavat. And he further advised him, yāha, bhāgavata paḍa vaiṣṇavera sthāne ekānta āśraya kara caitanya-caraṇe, “If you want to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you must approach a self-realized Vaishnava and hear from him.”

And Srila Sanatana Gosvami, quoting from the Padma Purāṇa, advises, avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ sarpocchiṣṭaṁ yathā payaḥ, “One should not hear about Krishna from a non-Vaishnava.” Hari-kathāmṛtam. Hare means Krishna, kathā means talks, and amṛta means nectar.

So, talks about Krishna are nectar, but we should not hear such talks from non-Vaishnavas. “One should not hear anything about Kṛṣṇa from a non-Vaiṣṇava. Milk touched by the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects.” So, milk is like nectar, but if it’s touched by the lips of a serpent, that nectar becomes like poison. “Similarly, talks about Kṛṣṇa given by a non-Vaiṣṇava are also poisonous.” So now, we come back to the purport.

PURPORT (continued)

The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant’s son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas.

COMMENT

So here, Srila Prabhupada gives a very vivid and powerful example of how bhāgavata sevā, serving the Bhagavatas, the pure devotees, can have miraculous effects, so much that the boy Narada, just by serving the Bhagavatas, by taking the remnants of their foodstuffs, and hearing their talks about Krishna, although coming from a very humble beginning, this boy became the great devotee Narada just by the association of Bhagavatas.

And we can see in our own experience what was our position before we met Srila Prabhupada, a pure devotee, and how our lives became transformed or revolutionized by the service of the pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada.

PURPORT (continued)

These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord.

COMMENT

So, this word fixed, which Srila Prabhupada uses in the purport, refers to naiṣṭhika, irrevocable. There are different stages in the development of devotional service, as enumerated by Srila Rupa Gosvami in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo ‘tha bhajana-kriyā tato ‘nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā. Here, we are discussing that stage of niṣṭhā. Tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktis tato bhāvas tataḥ premābhyudañcati sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ.

So, ādau śraddhā, in the beginning, there should be faith, tataḥ, thereafter, sādhu-saṅga, association with pure devotees, tha bhajana-kriyā, performance of devotional service to Krishna, ato ‘nartha-nivṛttiḥ, the diminishing of all unwanted habits.

So, this anartha-nivṛtti is achieved by the association of the Bhagavatas, by hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, hearing or reading the book Bhāgavata, and serving the person Bhagavat, that results in anartha-nivṛtti, the eradication of anarthas, or unwanted habits, or unwanted characteristics. Syāt tato niṣṭhā, firm faith. And so, this niṣṭhā, it’s related to the word naiṣṭhikī in the verse, it’s firm faith, which is so strong that one cannot be deviated.

Srila Prabhupada gave the example of little Sarasvati, who was the daughter of Shyamasundara Prabhu and Malati devi. She was just a little girl, and someone told her that she should not chant Hare Krishna, that she is just wasting her time by chanting, and that little girl, Sarasvati, gave that man a slap in the face. And Srila Prabhupada cited that as an example of niṣṭhā, firm faith, she could not be deviated.

Then ruci, taste, then āsakti, attachment, then bhāva, ecstasy, and prema, pure love of Godhead. And Rupa Gosvami says prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. This is the chronological order of the stages of spiritual advancement in the sādhaka, in the devotee practicing Krishna consciousness.

But getting past anartha-nivṛtti and coming to the stage of niṣṭhā is very important. Up until anartha-nivṛtti, there are a lot of obstacles and struggles, but when one passes anartha-nivṛtti and comes to niṣṭhā, then one is fixed, and then one’s progress is clear, it’s open.

And as Srila Prabhupada said in the first sentence of the purport,

PURPORT (continued)

Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart, which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization.

COMMENT

So now, coming back to the purport, after describing how Narada became so exalted just by associating with the Bhagavatas, serving them, taking the remnants of their food, hearing their talks about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he became the great devotee and personality, Srila Naradadeva.

PURPORT (continued)

These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord.

COMMENT

That’s when we have transcendental knowledge, we become fixed. No more wavering or oscillating between material life and spiritual life.

PURPORT (continued)

The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata.

COMMENT

As we have discussed, in the positive sense, quoting Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami, that one should hear the book Bhāgavata from the person Bhagavat. And on the negative side from the Padma Purāṇa, as quoted by Srila Sanatana Gosvami, that one should not hear from a non-Vaishnava.

PURPORT (continued)

The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.

COMMENT

On and on, it implies through these different stages; niṣṭhā, ruci, āsakti, bhāva, and ultimately, prema, which is our goal, premā pumartho mahān, it is the ultimate goal of life, kṛṣṇa-prema.

So now, we have some time left, and we can take questions and comments. The participants, of course, they may have been sending their questions in the chat box, but still, I would say you can raise your hand; your physical hand or your virtual hand, and we will be happy to hear from you and respond to you.

Host: Hare Krishna, Maharaja, thank you very much for the wonderful class. I am reading out the questions typed in by the devotees in the chat.

Vrindavan Chandra Prabhu, he is asking, “Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Why does the verse say almost completely eradicated? It almost indicates that service to the person Bhagavat is not powerful enough to remove all unwanted things in the heart, which we know cannot be true.” So, his question is, why does the verse say almost completely eradicated?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, because we are discussing different stages of advancement, and this verse relates to the stage of niṣṭhā. And at this stage, Srila Prabhupada translates that almost to nil as 75 percent. So, at this stage, it’s good, it’s good. Almost to nil, prāya, prāya means almost. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu, all that is inauspicious in the heart is destroyed almost to nil. And by passing through this stage, then one will proceed to the next stages, and in the subsequent stages, the remaining 25 percent will be destroyed, will be eradicated. It’s a good question.

Host: Thank you very much, Maharaja. Malati Mataji is asking, “Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, I wanted to ask a question. You said that the first step to self-realization is not to identify with one’s body, but we see that till the last breath, we are attached to the body. So, how do we see this, how it is the first step?”

Giriraj Swami: Well, as Sri Prahlada says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ, that people do not know what their real self-interest is. It’s natural to be concerned with one’s self-interest, but one should know what one’s self is. Is it the body, or is it the soul within the body?

Well, of course, we know, it’s the soul within the body, that’s our real self. And therefore, our self-interest is to act for the benefit of the soul, which really means to connect the soul through yoga. Here, we were discussing anarthas, anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, that all anarthas can be destroyed through the linking process of devotional service.

So, I mean, yes, you may be attached to the body, but because you know you are not the body, therefore, you are endeavoring to make progress in spiritual life. If you thought you were the body, you wouldn’t be interested in spiritual life, you’d be interested in material life.

And then again, why are you attached to the body? Are you attached for sense gratification, or are you attached for devotional service? Because the body is the means through which we serve Krishna. And as Srila Prabhupada often said, we want to keep the body and soul together, we want to keep the body fit for serving Krishna. So, being attached to the body is not bad if it’s ultimately attachment for Krishna’s service, which I’m sure it is in your case. Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna. So, I have unmuted the participants, and I’ve asked them to raise their hand to ask questions.

Giriraj Swami: Good.

Host: So, I will request Kajal Mataji to ask her question. Kajal Mataji?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, please accept my humble, respectful obeisances unto your lotus feet.

Guru Maharaja, you were talking about attachment to the body. Guru Maharaja, I feel I am very much attached to not only my body but maybe material happiness or things like that. So, at times, I am very afraid of getting hurt or suffering in life, so that causes a lot of hindrance in my spiritual life that many times, I just don’t engage in some kind of sevā because I think I might not be good at them and I don’t want to get hurt. So, how can I really let go of this fear of suffering so that it does not cause entrance in my life. Sorry, the question was a lot confusing, sorry.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are two parts of the question. One is you are afraid that you won’t be good enough. Of course, we want to do the best we can, but we cannot wait until we come to the stage of super excellence. As HH Tamal Krishna Goswami used to say, the worst round you chant is better than the best round you don’t chant. So, just do what you can, do the best you can and do it. As far as being afraid of getting hurt, what do you mean by that?

Devotee: I don’t want any negative experience in my life, I only want to have the positive one.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s natural, but for that, you’ll have to go back to Godhead, because as long as you are in the material world, there is duality; pleasure and pain, happiness and distress, you can’t avoid it. And therefore, Krishna advises in the Bhagavad-gītā, titikṣasva bhārata, you have to tolerate. There will be dualities, and you have to tolerate and go on with your devotional service.

Devotee: Thank you, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Oh, Omkara has his hand up.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Daṇḍavat-praṇāmās, Maharaja. Maharaja, I had the question that how can we get the association of Bhagavatas and serve them sincerely? Because sometimes we may get, but at the same time, we may not serve sincerely, and it’s so difficult to get the association of such devotees also.

Giriraj Swami: Omkara, can you put on your camera?

Devotee: Yes, Maharaja, yes.

Giriraj Swami: So now, can you repeat your question?

Devotee: Maharaja, I was saying that how can we get the association of Bhagavatas and serve them sincerely?

Giriraj Swami: Okay. Where are you geographically?

Devotee: I am in Pune.

Giriraj Swami: Pune?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: There are plenty of Bhagavatas in Pune.

Devotee: Yes, yes, Maharaja, but the point is sincerity lacks.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, sincerity. Well, Srila Prabhupada has given two answers to that question of how to be sincere, become sincere. One answer was to follow all of the instructions of the spiritual master, however big or small, that should be the first thing. And the other answer he gave was to associate with devotees who are sincere, and I’m sure you can find many sincere devotees there.

So, yeah, associate with them and you’ll become more sincere. I don’t say that you are not sincere, but just based on the way you phrase the question, you can become sincere by associating with sincere devotees and by following all the instructions of the spiritual master, however big or small.

Devotee: Yes, Maharaja, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Are there any more questions or comments?

Host: Hare Krishna, Maharaja, there is one question by Kartik Mataji. She says, “If Krishna is all pure and absolute, then how in the serpent example, the Bhagavad-gītā becomes poison when heard from a non-devotee? Please share some insights.”

Giriraj Swami: I would repeat the same point, that milk is like nectar, but if it’s touched by the lips of a serpent, the milk causes poisonous effects. So, it’s true, hari-kathāmṛtam, talks about Krishna are nectar, but they should not be heard from non-devotees. And generally, of course, there are different categories of non-devotees, but a common category, because some of them who are gross materialists, they won’t be interested in hari-kathā.

So, generally, the non-devotees who are interested in hari-kathā are Mayavadis. And Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, māyāvādī bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa, that by hearing the commentaries of the Mayavadis, one’s spiritual understanding is destroyed. So, yeah, hari-kathā is nectar, but the Mayavadis will present it in such a way that ultimately, there is no Krishna, that ultimately, you become God or something like that, and that’s bad, we don’t want to hear that.

I remember reading a letter from Srila Prabhupada before he came to America and began ISKCON, while he was in India. A Mayavadi was giving a bhāgavata-saptāha in Bombay, and the Mayavadi invited Srila Prabhupada to come and attend, and Srila Prabhupada wrote him, “Not only will I not attend, but I will tell everyone else I know not to attend, because we don’t want to hear from Mayavadis.” So, that’s I would say the main context in which the injunction applies not to hear from non-devotees.

Host: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Maharaja, there is one question. Mataji, can you ask the question?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances. Do you hear me?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes.

Devotee: Okay. I want to comment, if we are reading or listening to Srila Prabhupada’s lectures, is it the same way to self-awareness? It means that regarding this text from Bhāgavata, how can we manage this? We can read the Bhāgavata and also listen to Srila Prabhupada’s lectures, your lectures, and other devotees’ lectures also, senior devotees?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. As you know, there are two ways of associating; vāṇī, which means by sound or words, and vapuḥ, which means by a body or physical association. And by reading Srila Prabhupada’s books, hearing his lectures or those of other devotees, following Srila Prabhupada, you are associating with them by vāṇī. And as Srila Prabhupada says, vapuḥ may or may not be available, but vāṇī is always there.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Jaya!

Host: Hare Krishna. Maharaja, can we have a couple of more questions?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Host: So, Shobha Radha Mataji, can you ask your question? Shobha Radha Mataji?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada, all glories to your divine lotus feet.

I had a question. You said that we should not listen or listen about Krishna from non-devotees. Today, I had gone to a family’s place, a family where there were non-devotees, and I was discussing with them about Krishna. One of the Matajis is very interested in Krishna consciousness. So, is that okay when you are telling them about Krishna consciousness and you do discuss with them about Krishna and the others are non-devotees? Is it okay to talk to them about Krishna and listen to them about Krishna?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I mean, what we want to avoid is hearing discourses from non-devotees. But if you meet with non-devotees to tell them about Krishna, and of course, there will be naturally some discussion, so that hearing from non-devotees is not prohibited because you are just conversing with them, and that’s how non-devotees become devotees.

Devotee: There are times that they say things, which are not Krishna conscious, which is about Krishna. Is that okay to hear while we are preaching? Even though we tell them about Krishna consciousness, but there are times that they say things, which are not Krishna conscious. Is that fine?

Giriraj Swami: Of course, they’ll say things that are not Krishna conscious because they are not devotees yet, but you are trying to make them devotees.

Devotee: Okay, okay. Thank you. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna. Is there any other question that you would like to ask? We can have one final question before we end the session. Anybody? Malati Mataji, can you ask?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, this is the best topic you spoke about. Thank you so much for the wonderful class.

Guru Maharaja, actually, if I go to see that I am too attached to the person Bhagavat rather than reading the book Bhāgavata because knowledge is very far away from my [Unintelligible 00:55:42] that I can’t understand most of the things. I try to do it because I know the process, that through serving the person Bhagavat, all the knowledge will be revealed to me.

So, I am just following one aspect of devotional service that is serving the person’s Bhagavat, I am not attached to Krishna, I’m not attached to Radharani, I do things which are only for the whole paramparā. If I go to sleep for the whole day, I [Unintelligible 00:56:15] Prabhu, but Krishna is very far away from me, so I just have one aspect. So, what is my position, Guru Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Your position is very fortunate. You are attaching the [Unintelligible 00:56:40] person Bhagavat. But the person Bhagavat will also serve the book Bhāgavata. So, serving the person Bhagavat doesn’t mean just cooking for him or whatever, but it means following his instructions. So, if the person Bhagavat tells you to read the book Bhāgavata, then that’s also service to the person Bhagavat to read the book Bhāgavata, and you should.

Devotee: Yes, Guru Maharaja, thank you so much. I read but I don’t understand, that’s the only thing. It doesn’t remain in my mind for a longer period of time, that’s why I hear more rather than reading. I can just read for an hour or so, Guru Maharaja, but not more than that. I can hear and better understand much better, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, and that’s a good balance, that’s all right. If you improve your japa, you might be able to retain what you read better because that will help you, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleanse the mirror of the mind, that will help you to remember what you read. And repeating what you read. You get realizations when you repeat what you read.

Devotee: Thank you, Guru Maharaja, Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet. And do you hear me?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Okay. Maharaja, today we talked about something that I wanted to explain to you, is it correct or not, and the question was that I said to the other devotees that whenever we consider someone as a parcel of God, is meaning that we are serving to that person, is it correct? Do you need more explanation, or is it enough?

Giriraj Swami: You are saying that you see everyone as part and parcel of God?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: That’s nice, that’s true.

Devotee: Because we talked about ānanda, that making relations brings you ānanda. Then I said that whenever we consider someone as a parcel of Krishna, we are making relation and we are serving, actually, both at the same time, is it correct? I don’t know what to say, but just thinking he or she is a parcel of God, just this.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s good to see everyone as part and parcel of God. And to want to serve others is also good. And of course, the best service will be to bring them to Krishna, and you do that, you do a lot of prasāda distribution there, which is a good service. So, I think that’s fine.

Devotee: Actually, sorry because my English is not very well, but I mean that whenever you think someone or every living being entity is a parcel of Krishna, is it serving? Is it devotional service, just thinking?

Giriraj Swami: I would say yes because of the nine processes of devotional service. The third is remembering, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ. So, if you are seeing people as part and parcel of Krishna, that means you are remembering Krishna, and that’s one of the items of devotional service.

Devotee: Also, is it making a relation? Because we talked about ānanda, and we said that ānanda, just the results of making relation and serving, and I said both of them is happening when you think someone is a parcel of Krishna, making relation as remembering?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah. If you make a relationship with the devotee, then there will be ānanda. If you make relationship with Krishna, you make relationship with Krishna’s devotees, there will be ānanda.

Devotee: Thank you, thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna. Ayushi Mataji?

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, I have a question. The analogy you told, a milk touched by a serpent becomes poisonous, has a poisonous effect. So, let’s say that we are new to a place and we unknowingly visit a temple, which is named as Krishna-Balarama temple, but that is maintained by Ritwicks.

Giriraj Swami: Maintained by who?

Devotee: Ritwiks. And we do not know that it is maintained by them. I will give you an example. Two or three years ago, I went to Vrindavan, and a devotee was wearing saffron dress and he was selling some books, and he was telling that it is from BBT. And I went to him and I told him, “I wish to purchase few books from you,” just because I wanted to serve him like that and I wanted to read more books.

But in the middle of the conversation, he started speaking things, which were not very good. He told me, “Earlier, I was a part of ISKCON, and now I am a part of BB Narayana Goswami Maharaja, we are followers of them and it is good, it is comparatively good to be a follower of BB Narayana Goswami. There are so many things that are not going good in ISKCON.” So, I was actually not willing to hear from him, I wanted to escape. But I could not understand, what should I do at that particular moment?

So, Guru Maharaja, there are instances where people are wearing saffron and they are wearing a Vaishnava tilak, and we, of course, do not want to disobey them, but they will speak such things. Of course, they worship Krishna, but their philosophy is little not good because they are Ritwiks. So, what our attitude should be at those moments, Guru Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Well, we should be polite. We don’t want to offend anyone, but we should avoid their association. If their association is not favorable for our devotion to Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON, then we should avoid their association.

Rupa Gosvami gives advice about how to respect different grades of devotees, and there are some devotees to whom we offer respect from a distance. We respect them, but we keep a distance. And sometimes we have to do that, even with devotees of sorts who worship Krishna but they are not in our line, they are not favorable to our mood of service, following Srila Prabhupada, so we avoid them, as far as possible.

Devotee: Thank you, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: There are also devotees of sorts, but we avoid them.

Host: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Host: We are moving towards the end of our session here, and we would like to thank everybody, all of you, for joining in, for wonderful saṅga with HH Giriraj Swami Maharaja. And I am also very, very grateful on behalf of ISKCON Bhagavat Mahavidyalaya at Govardhana. We are an educational wing of ISKCON situated at Govardhana dhāma. And Vedavarsity.com is our online initiative where we offer various online courses. So, I request all of you to kindly go and check out our website for wonderful courses, which are offered by learned and experienced senior Vaishnavas.

And once again, I am very, very grateful, and I would like to thank HH Giriraj Maharaja for giving your wonderful association and enlightening us about how to serve a person Bhagavat. Maharaja very nicely explained from his own realizations and from the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and he wonderfully answered all the queries, so we are very, very thankful to you, Maharaja, and we hope and pray that you will continue to give us regular association in the future as well, Maharaja. So, let us all thank Maharaja once by chanting Hare Krishna maha-mantra.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare