SB 9.10.9 – Indian Independence Day—Real Independence Means Dependence on Krishna

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

So thank you Maharaja for joining. I understand that you have some problem with the internet so that’s why there is the delay.

Giriraj Swami: Yes I’m using my iPhone.

Devotee: Yes, I can see that from the image. It’s much narrower.

Giriraj Swami: Okay well, we are going to try to solve it. So, I can begin with singing the maṅgala-ācaraṇa prayers and leading a short kirtan and then we will speak about Indian Independence Day.

Devotee: Okay, so do you allow me to make a small presentation just to introduce the topic, at least?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Okay. Hare Krishna Maharaja and all the participants. Please accept my humble obeisance and all glory to Srila Prabhupada and all the Vaishnava devotees. Firstly, the disciples of the Spanish Chapter and from all around the world, we wish to extend our warm welcome to you and express our gratitude for joining us and giving us your precious and valuable time, and guiding us on our path to spirituality. We are indeed extremely fortunate.

Maharaja, today is a very special day for the people of India all over the world, and also all those who are connected to the Indian culture and spirituality, even yourself and so many other devotees around the world. It is a day when India got its Independence after almost 200 years from British rule. Politically we got Independence, but the true independence is a spiritual independence; independence from the clutches of the mode of maya.

So today, our special request is that you enlighten us with this necessary knowledge so important to all mankind. It’s our great fortune to have this grand opportunity to hear directly from the mouth of great devotee and the servitor of Srila Prabhupada. Without taking any more time, I pass on the word to you and beg you to forgive me for whatever offenses I may have committed due to my ignorance. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Will we be having a Spanish translation?

Devotee: Yes. So Ganga Mataji will be doing a Spanish translation.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Hare Krishna

So we have gathered on August 15th, which is Indian Independence Day. One year in Juhu on August 15th, some of the tenants assembled in the garden at noon, stood in silence for a minute before the small statue of Gandhi, and then proceeded with their annual celebration, garlanding the statue, hoisting the flag, singing the National Anthem, and distributing sweets.

Bahari Swori was giving Srila Prabhupada his massage on the balcony adjoining his bedroom. Prabhupada challenged; Where is the question of independence? We are all dependent at every step on Krishna’s mercy. The Indians struggled to become independent of the British, but who is independent of the laws of material nature? Prabhupada cited the outgoing drought in England, which was affecting many people. The vegetation was drying up, animals were dying prematurely because there was no father, factories in Wales were closing, and there was talk of importing water.

“No one can do anything about it and they think it is all happening by chance; there is not a single person in the whole world who actually knows anything; no one except you Srila Prabhupada.” Hari Sauri commented. “Is that just flattery or do you actually acknowledge that?’ Prabhupada asked smiling. Hari Sauri assured him that it was not just empty praise and as he related in his diary, quote, “Prabhupada accepted it with pleasure as a heartfelt submission.”

So now I will read a few quotations from Srila Prabhupada’s books about dependence and independence.

This is from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.18.22, Purport:

“Renunciation means renouncing one’s dependence on the conditions of material nature and thus becoming completely dependent on the mercy of the Lord. Real independence means complete faith in the mercy of the Lord without dependence on the conditions of matter.”

Then the next is from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.13.9, Purport:

“The relationship between the father and the son is always sublime. The father is naturally disposed with good will towards the son, and he is always ready to help the son in his progress in life. But in spite of the father’s good will, the son is sometimes misguided because of his misuse of personal independence. Every living entity, however small or big he may be, has the choice of independence. If the son is unreservedly willing to be guided by the father, the father is ten times more eager to instruct and guide him by all means.”

And what Srila Prabhupada has written here in the purport, applies even more to the Supreme father Krishna.

In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 4.9.35:

“A conditioned soul does not know what complete independence is. Complete independence means situation in one’s own constitutional position. The real independence of a living entity, who is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is to remain always dependent on the Supreme Lord, just like a child who plays in complete independence, guided by his parents, who watch over him. The independence of the conditioned soul does not mean to fight with the obstacles offered by māyā, but to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. In the material world, everyone is trying to become completely independent simply by fighting against the obstacles offered by māyā. This is called the struggle for existence. Real independence is to be reinstated in the service of the Lord.”

So real independence means to declare our dependence on Krishna. The true use of our independence is to develop independence on Krishna. Human life has independence, but when we surrender our independence to Krishna, He will engage us fully.

So today is a very special day, India’s Independence Day, and on this occasion, we reflect on the actual duty of the government. And Srila Prabhupada has answered that question, “What is the actual duty of the government?” And Srila Prabhupada said, to understand what God wants, and to see that society works toward that end, then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy.

The government’s duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God and to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the Supremacy of God, if they do not know what God wants or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today.

Now India has declared itself to be a secular state, but Srila Prabhupada did not like their idea of a secular state, meaning a state without God or God consciousness. Rather Srila Prabhupada wanted the state to encourage God consciousness, but not to favor one religious tradition over another. Not to give trouble to followers of one religious tradition or another, but to encourage God consciousness in all traditions.

So, Srila Prabhupada said everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord’s control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don’t they accept the Supreme Controller. That is the defect in society. In every respect the leaders are experiencing that there must be a Supreme Controller, and yet they still deny Him. Thus, there cannot be good government. First, take the science of God very seriously. They are manufacturing their own way of governing and that is their defect. They will never be successful; they are imperfect and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means they will remain imperfect. There will be no peace.

According to the Vedic version, God is the leader of all living entities. nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. We are different from Him because He is all perfect and we are not. We are very small. We have the qualities of God, but in very small quantities. So, the leaders of the government have to consult God, then they will rule perfectly.

And then Srila Prabhupada said of us, “Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you are becoming perfect, you have accepted me as your leader and I accept God as my leader.” In this way society can be governed perfectly. So good government means first of all, to accept the Supreme Being as the real ruler, but you cannot directly accept the Supreme Being. You must accept the servants of the Supreme Being; the brahmans are Vaishnavas as your guides. Then society will be perfect.

So, on the occasion of India’s Independence Day, we reflect on what good government is, and how to use our independence – our national independence and our individual independence to serve the Lord and fulfil the mission of human life. And the consciousness required can be developed by hearing, by reading. As we have been discussing, what we have read in Srila Prabhupada’s books and heard from his talks, and also by chanting the holy names of God – Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

So, this concludes our reflections on Indian Independence Day and how to use our independence to develop our dependence on Krishna. And now, if any of you have any questions or comments you can speak. I am on my phone so I won’t be able to see if anybody is raising their hand, but you can call on whoever raises their hand.

Devotee: I can control, if they go to the digital hands I can see.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: So are there any question for Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Srila Prabhupada said, if there are no questions it means everyone agrees. All right, well if that’s the case then we will conclude by offering Vaishnava praṇām.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Guru Maharaja, there is a question from Dayalram Prabhuji, and his question is that sometimes the deities in India they are dressed in the colors of the Indian flag during Indian independence day so what is your opinion about that?

Giriraj Swami: Ganga you can translate.

Ganga: Yes, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the Bhagavad-gītā says, acharya upasana. That’s part of the process of knowledge is to approach the acharya and none of our acharyas have recommended to dress the deities in the colors of the Indian flag. Krishna is not Indian or American or Spanish or anything of the material world, so I don’t think that Krishna would particularly like to be dressed in the colors of the Indian flag. I have never seen that myself. I don’t think that we should try to mix nationalism, in a mundane sense, with spirituality. I suppose that if someone made beautiful dresses for the deities using the colors of the Indian flag there would be no harm. But the problem could be that it arouses a national consciousness, and we want to rise above national consciousness to Krishna consciousness.

Devotee: Thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: That was an interesting question.

Devotee: Maharaja, in this regard it has been seen sometime that even in Christmas time some temples, not ISKCON temples, Krishna temples in Vrindavan and they dress the deities with the Christmas clothes like Santa Claus or things like that. Is it okay, is it bona fide to do that?

Giriraj Swami: For devotees it would not really be very much appreciated, but as an approach to preaching, for example in Hungary, the farm under the guidance of His Holiness Sivarama Swami Maharaja who is very Krishna conscious, sometimes they do on Christmas dress the deities in Christmas colors, and I imagine that the reason is to encourage people who are visiting the project and who identify themselves as being Christians, to make them feel that we are also acknowledging Christmas. But in general, and definitely in India, I wouldn’t see any purpose would be served by that.

Devotee: Okay, so thank you Maharaja. There is one hand raised by Jayant Prabhu. Jayant, can you unmute and speak.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Please forgive me, please accept my humble obeisances. Maharaja, I have a question. It’s not related to India’s Independence but in the sense that these days we see many countries are fighting against each other, or there are wars going on in the countries where people, many times innocent people are suffering. How do we devotees take it, do we just accept it as people suffering due to their karmas or should we do anything in that case, or we just pray to Lord for their well-being? How do we react to that situation?

Giriraj Swami: We can pray certainly, but Srila Prabhupada has connected wars and fighting with animal killing, especially cow killing. So, you could say there is immediate cause and the remote cause. So, there may be many immediate causes, but Srila Prabhupada said that the remote cause was cow-killing, and that we shouldn’t think of world peace unless we stop killing the cows. So, we can make propaganda against cow killing, but mainly we want to make propaganda for Krishna consciousness. And generally, the best way to do that is to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books. By a large-scale distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s books, the world can change.

Devotee: Thank you so much Maharaja, please forgive me. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: There is another person raise the hand, Osi Prabhu, Seville from Spain. So Osi Prahu Seville.

Devotee: The question Guru Maharaja is that he is asking that is today really a day for celebration because the situation in India the people cannot even go to chant or to pray; they cannot go to take care of the sick, the ill people; they cannot do so many things, the situation is not so good for celebration. What do you think?

Giriraj Swami: There is a lot of suffering in India now. There is a lot of suffering in the world and there is a lot of suffering in India.  I am sure that as a matter of national honor, they will be celebrating Independence Day. But as Srila Prabhupada said that they can’t be independent of the laws of nature and so they will suffer. The only way to become free from material nature is to surrender to Krishna. As Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī, that this nature of mind is made of the three modes – mama māyā duratyayā; and this maya is very difficult to overcome. mām eva ye prapadyante, but one who surrenders unto Me, māyām etāṁ taranti te; can easily cross over maya. There, is the only real solution.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: There is another hand raised by Sakshi Lakhiani. Sakshi, can you unmute and speak?

Devotee: Hare Krishna Guru Maharaja. All glories to you, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my humble obeisances. Guru Maharaja, my question was that I have not been feeling the national spirit of Independence since morning, and I wasn’t feeling particularly guilty about it either because I had heard and read that we are not really independent. And taking it in the Krishna conscious sense I didn’t really feel that. But I also felt like there were a lot of people around me who were in the misconception that India is a free nation and so on, and they thought they were really independent. I didn’t say anything to anyone but I felt that should we really express this liberally that no, we are not really independent because that would dull the national spirit. But it’s better than being in ignorance, I feel. Can you please tell me what’s best?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it depends on the audience. If they are sober, if they are philosophically inclined, then you can speak to them about the real philosophy. If they are more ignorant and they identify themselves as being Indians, and they want to celebrate India’s Independence, then if you try to preach to them too much, they might like you say, they might feel their spirits are being dampened and they won’t like it.

Devotee: Thank you so much Guru Maharaja. I actually remember this one incident from Juhu story, where Nara Narayana Prabhu, I think he had told the local Indians that Mahatma Gandhi was a rascal and it had been outrageous for them. So, I was careful not to mention anything of that sort. Thank you so much for guiding me.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. I am glad you mentioned the Juhu story.

Devotee: There is another hand by Hema Gaurii dasi.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, all glories to you. Guru Maharaja, so much we talk about Independence Day like in America, also 4th of July is done with lots of fun, shows, and firecrackers, and everything, and in India also and everywhere, but how independent are we actually? Like Lord Chaitanya says, ”Not a blade of grass can move without the will of the Lord.” So actually, we are not independent at all; everything is controlled by the demigods and all this. So, could you elaborate a bit more on that, please?

Giriraj Swami: Oh yes, most countries celebrate their independence from foreign rule. India is celebrating their independence from the British. America’s Independence Day was also from the British, and Mauritius has its Independence Day. But as you rightly said and as we have been discussing, they are not really independent; they are not independent of the laws of nature, which is the real tyranny. And to become independent of the laws of nature, we have to surrender to Krishna, and we can really celebrate.

Devotee: Thank you, thank you very much. And I also wanted to share with you one comment by somebody that I sent her the book of “I Will Build You a Temple” and she is saying she is enjoying so much and she just doesn’t want to come to an end of the book. She is saying “Oh my God, I don’t want it to come to an end.” I told her, well once you finish the book you can read it again.

Devotee: So now Maharaja, we have Ganga devi, she has raised her hands as well. I think she has a question for you. Ganga devi.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, we are distributing books here in Mallorca and we have been distributing here for years, and still we see that the people they don’t change. Well, they change in one sense but they don’t take the chanting of the Hare Krishna although we have been with them chanting in their houses, but when the devotees go away they forget. How can we really do better, make more impression on them? Maybe it’s the purity, we still don’t have the purity. Of course, we want to see a change in the world, so how to be a better instrument in book distribution?

Giriraj Swami: Of course, by getting the books, reading the books, associating with devotees, joining in kirtan, they benefit. But their progress will be more sure if they have ongoing association with devotees. So I don’t know if these friends are Krishna conscious enough to associate with one another and thus make progress. Otherwise, maybe you can occasionally have some meeting with them, some sort of satsaṅga or reading group, because they will need association. We are sowing seeds, we are planting seeds but we need to water the seeds, and fertilize the seeds so that the plant of bhakti grows nicely.

Devotee: Thank you.

Devotee: Right now, there are no more hands.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, can I just read what somebody has written on the chat?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: It’s from Antonio Laguna. He says Hare Krishna. The conception, the idea of real independence is complete dependence on Krishna, but it’s difficult to understand that in this material world. How do you explain that? He was just saying that it’s understandable that the conception of real independence is dependence on Krishna; that is explained beautifully but in this material world, this dimension seems a little hard to understand.

Giriraj Swami: What’s hard to understand?

Devotee: To be completely dependent on Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Well, to be dependent on Krishna means to follow Krishna’s instructions and to please Krishna and depend on His mercy. But it doesn’t mean that we become helpless, we also make our effort, but for the ultimate success of our effort we depend on the mercy of Krishna. So we should take up the practice of bhakti-yoga as given to us by Srila Prabhupada and Srila Rupa Gosvami. And Srila Prabhupada has given us the Nectar of Devotion, which explains the process of devotional service given by Rupa Gosvami. So we should follow the Nectar of Devotion, follow the process of bhakti-yoga. We should also work to spread Krishna consciousness, because bhakti means to please Krishna. And Krishna is pleased when He sees us engaged in devotional service, and He becomes more pleased when He sees us working to share Krishna consciousness with others. So we should do both; taste Krishna consciousness and distribute Krishna consciousness.

Devotee: Okay Maharaja, there is another hand raised by Malati dasi. Malati, can you unmute and speak? You cannot be heard; I think your audio is faulty.

Devotee: Is it okay, now?

Devotee: Yes, somewhat better. Maybe you can raise your voice or increase the volume.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Now am I audible, better?

Devotee: Maharaja, is okay for you?

Giriraj Swami: It’s fine.

Devotee: Actually, earlier when we became devotees it was much easier, at that time we respected sadhus, we used to go to the temple and respect parents. But right now Kali is increasing so much that children, when they get up, they don’t go to the temple; they want some songs and different ways to enjoy their life and it’s not a one-day process to change your heart. Guru Maharaja, it’s so difficult, if they take to Krishna consciousness now their heart would change many years it will take for them to change. So, my question is Guru Maharaja, how will it be possible that many can come in and join and just change their hearts? When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came, He used to just seek and many became devotees, so it’s so difficult in this Kali-yuga, Guru Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: When someone comes to Krishna consciousness they start to feel the effects immediately. There are six characteristics of pure devotional service as mentioned in the Nectar of Devotion; to become manifest in sādhana-bhakti, to become manifest in bhāva-bhakti, and to become manifest in prema-bhakti. And the two that begin in sādhana-bhakti are very significant. One is kleśa-ghnī – which means pure devotional service eradicates all material distress. And Subadah means devotional service bestows all auspiciousness. And in the definition of auspiciousness, Rupa Gosvami mentions happiness. That just by beginning devotional service one becomes free from material miseries and experiences happiness. And as one continues the process and avoids offenses, one will experience more relief and more happiness, but it begins from the beginning.

Devotee: So, we should just get them in and preach to them and give them books and they’ll be happy?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, and give them association. As we have been discussing, association is very important.

Devote: Okay Guru Maharaja. Thank you so much. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: More questions? Shall we end now?

Devotee: You decide Maharaja. If you have something else to say we are here to listen.

Giriraj Swami: No, we can conclude but then I suggest we offer Vaishnava praṇām.

Devotee: Sorry to interrupt Maharaja, there is one more question from Dayalgauranga Prabhu, if that’s okay.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: So, he is going to sign, I’m going to interpret.

Giriraj Swami: Okay

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: I was thinking about Yasoda Mata, in her past life she was Lord Rama’s mother , in previous life. And it looks like it was her karma, she was Lord Rama’s mother in the previous life and then the next life there is another mother. She was Bharat’s mother and she also have karma and then the next life was Devaki. S,o because Bharat’s mother, because of her Lord Rama went to the forest for fourteen years and then the next life she becomes Krishna’s mother and stay in the prison for same amount of time fourteen years. So my question is, is that karma? This relationship between one life and another is that the karma they have?

Giriraj Swami: I would not say that it is karma because these are liberated souls. A conditioned soul cannot have the Personality of Godhead as one’s child, but although it’s not karma it may take the pattern of karma to teach people how karma works. But they themselves are not suffering or enjoying the results of karma. But again their līlā, their pastimes, can illustrate how karma works.

Devotee: Thank you very much, now I have a clear understanding. Thank you very much Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Maharaja, there is one question in the chat from (Unintelligible 01:33:31)  but it’s not complete in coming in. It says; Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisance. All glory to Srila Prabhupada. I have one question, how devotees are spreading Krishna consciousness among the governments of different countries, directly to the leadership of the countries. Do you do you have any stories on this topic? Thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Krishna says, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ – that whatever the great persons do the others will follow. So, if the leaders take to Krishna consciousness, then the followers will also take to Krishna consciousness. In the present age of Kali-yuga it’s difficult for leaders to take fully to Krishna consciousness, because they are intoxicated by their material positions, their power and their prestige. But still, we want to try. Srila Prabhupada tried with Indira Gandhi when she was the Prime Minister of India. And how much thought he put into it, and how much effort he put into it is described in my book, “The Juhu Story.”

He met her and she did give some concessions such as helping Prabhupada’s disciples with their visas, with their stay in India. But we are still waiting for that day when a Head of State will become a devotee. Previously it was the case, but for hundreds of years we have not had any Heads of State who are devotees. It would be very good for them and for the world.

Devotee: Guru Maharaja, there is a comment about the book on the chat. Somebody has written saying "Hare Krishna Maharaja. Thank you for this amazing class it is always a learning experience for me. I am enjoying your book and hope we can expand on some sections. There is so much in the book to understand too. Thank you for sharing this with us, Haribol.” It’s from Divya Ferrini.

Giriraj Swami: Oh yes, I know her. She is in Dallas.

Devotee: So, I guess we can end.

Giriraj Swami: All right and let’s offer Vaishnava praṇām.