BG 8.5–6 – End-of-life Care

Sundarananda Prabhu: Okay, so this is the agenda for today’s meeting. Maharaja would like to start with the maṅgalācaraṇa prayers. And if it is okay, we would like to dedicate the short kirtan for the health of His Holiness Jayapataka Maharaja, who is in Chennai at the moment. And a few of us are on his medical team and Maharaja is recovering. So, we are praying that he recovers soon and returns to Mayapur. Then, Maharaja will be giving his talk on the final journey. And then Maharaja, with your permission, we will have some questions and comments. And then, we will have some final announcements. So Maharaja, it gives me extreme pleasure and happiness to introduce yourself to this group of the ISKCON Healthcare UK Professionals and devotees and well-wishers from all over the world. We have thirty-four participants now, and I am sure, it will increase. So Maharaja, a very warm welcome and over to you.

Giriraj Swami: Jaya! So, I will begin by singing the maṅgalācaraṇa prayers and leading a short kirtan, and then I will speak about end-of-life care.

[Kirtan]

Hare Krishna, my dear devotees on Zoom, as far as possible, I request you to put on your cameras so we can see your moon-like faces, and it is more personal. It is a great pleasure for me to address you all. In the Bhagavad-gītā, which is the essence of the Vedas, Lord Krishna informs us.

yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ
tyajaty ante kalevaram
taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ        [Gītā 8.6]

TRANSLATION

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.

anta-kāle ca mām eva
smaran muktvā kalevaram
yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ
yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ        [Gītā 8.5]

TRANSLATION

And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.

COMMENT

In 1969, when I was a student of psychology at Brandeis University, I met my spiritual master Srila Prabhupada. In 1970, after studying with him for a year and a half, I accompanied him to India. And in 1977, he taught us by his example how to leave the world in proper, pure consciousness. He retired to Vrindavan, a holy place in India and surrounded himself with devotees who were always chanting or reading to him from sacred literature. Being in such a holy place was itself conducive to spiritual consciousness, to God-consciousness, and the atmosphere was enhanced by loving disciples singing songs of the Lord and reading books about the Lord.

Some years later, one of my students was diagnosed with cancer. She was a renowned artist from South Africa who would travel all over the world to find subjects for painting. At one point, she decided that she wanted to combine her spiritual interests with her artwork. And so, she bought a plot of land in Vrindavan to establish a studio. And she was kind enough to build a floor upstairs for me, for when I would visit. Although the doctors had given her six months, she actually lived for three years. For the last two or three months of her life, I was with her almost constantly because the goal, not just in the Vedic tradition but in others as well, is to think of God, to chant the name of God, or at least hear the name chanted at the time of death. And I wanted to help her do that. 

During the thirty years I was based in India, I would travel frequently to Pakistan and Sri Lanka. And in Pakistan, I came across a book called the ninety-nine names of Allah. There is a similar work in Sanskrit called the thousand names of Vishnu, the Vishnu Sahasranam. So, in the ninety-nine names of Allah, there is a section about how a pious Muslim should meet death. The best thing a dying Muslim’s friends and relatives can do, the book states, is chant the name of God and help the loved one to either chant, or at least hear others chant the name of God at the final moment. There is a similar tradition in the Jewish faith, where the ideal is that at the time of death, the family and friends are chanting the name of God or reciting a prayer that contains the name of God. I saw that the same tradition that we have in Vedic philosophy, in Krishna consciousness, is also there in Islam and Judaism, and it is there in other traditions as well. With my student, we followed the same practice that we had seen with our spiritual master, and devotees would come and chant. The chanting can be done individually in a quiet meditative way or congregationally and more loudly with musical instruments. The whole idea is to help the person fix his or her consciousness on the Supreme, and keep it fixed on the Supreme at the time of death. And along with the chanting is the reading and talking about God consciousness.

In the Vedic culture, the time of death is considered life’s final exam. In school, we attend lectures, complete assignments, take quizzes, and write the mid-term, but whether or not we graduate depends on whether we pass the final examination. In life, passing the final examination means thinking of God at the time of death. And that is why the whole focus at the time of death is to help the person remember God. And the other activities that we perform during our lives, besides freeing us from activities that will result in our taking birth again, our practice, those other activities are practice for thinking of God at the time of death. And we get little tests along the way—sicknesses, setbacks, and various hardships. When we encounter them, do we remember God or do we look only for material solutions? These are the tests along the way, and then, the time of death is the final examination. And if we can remember God, then we graduate. We are free; no more material bodies; no more repetition of birth and death.

Sometimes, the question is raised about medication to alleviate physical pain at the time of death. The goal is to remember God at the time of death. So, our general approach is that we want to take enough medication so that the pain is not so excruciating that our consciousness is just absorbed in the pain, but at the same time we do not want to take so much medication that it bells us to the point where we cannot really think of God. So, that is the delicate balance we try to achieve. 

Now, what do we mean by remembering God? Is it just reciting the name or is it something else? Now, God is a person—that is the first point. He is not a person like you and me with a body made of flesh and bones. He is spiritual, transcendent, but He is a person. The Bible says, “Man is made in the image of God.” We are persons, and so, our Supreme Father or Mother must also be a person. That can be a difficult point because we are so conditioned by the material concept of personality, that when we hear about God’s personality, we think in terms of our material experience. Sometimes, people say, “If you tell us that God is a person, you are limiting Him.” For example, I am sitting here. Because I am sitting here, I cannot be in London. I cannot be in Hong Kong. But God, He is a person; but He is in this room; He is in London; He is in Hong Kong; He is in our hearts; He is in every molecule, in every atom, but He is still a person. Let us take the example of a person who holds a high office, say the President of a country. The term President describes his office but there is also the person who occupies the office. And that person has a name, an appearance, and personal qualities. He or she engages in certain activities. When we remember the President, yes, there are things about the office that we consider. But, to really remember the President means to know his name, his form, his features, his qualities, his activities. So, God, too, has a name. He has many names, and He has a form, many forms, and He has many qualities and engages in many activities. The real goal is to love God because when you love someone, you naturally think of the person. When we develop love for God, we will naturally remember Him and think of His beautiful form, His sublime qualities, His wonderful activities. We will like repeating His name just as one would repeat the name of a loved one. And we will think how best we can serve Him and please Him.

But, how can we know God well enough that we can actually come to love Him? One distinction between Vedic literatures and other scriptures is that the Vedas give us more details about the Personality of Godhead. They describe not just that He is the Supreme authority, the creator, the maintainer, the destroyer, and the protector, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent which He is, but also His personal attributes, His names, His forms, His qualities, and His activities. And when we come to know Him in a more personal way and develop affection and attachment, love for him in a personal relationship, it is very easy to think of him all the time and very natural to think of him at the time of death. 

Hospice workers work with the families of patients and deal a lot with the grief, the loss of the soul in this body that they have enjoyed in the physical context. After a loved one’s death, a family could hear the name of God, or think of the name of God, but because we are outside of that person, we don’t know what he or she is actually feeling. So, in what ways can we bring comfort and assurance to the family members? How can we support them in their grief and the loss of their loved one? Well, the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā, which is also a central principle in many other traditions, is that the person is not the body. The person is the soul inhabiting the body. When the person leaves the body, we say the person is dead, but actually the body was never alive. It was just animated by the presence of the soul. At the moment the soul leaves the body, all the elements of the body are still there, lying on the bed, but you may lament, Oh, my husband is gone, my wife is gone. But, why do you say they are gone? The body is lying on the bed. You might have thought that the body was your husband or your wife or your father or your mother, but when they pass away, you say, Oh, my father is gone, my mother is gone. But, the body is still there, so why do you say they are gone? Intuitively, we know that the person was not the body. That loved one is something other than the body, and that he or she, now, has left. That person is the soul. 

When a person has led a good life, and even more so, when he or she has tried to develop a relationship with God, and hear the name of God, and think of God at the time of death, we can be assured that the person will go to a better destination. There are many emotions. There is the sense of personal loss that the person whom we loved, and with whom we shared so many good times, is gone. Out of love, there is also concern—where is the person now? But, if we know the person has gone to a better place, we feel solace. And in painful illnesses such as cancer, we may also think, All right, the soul has left this body, and I am sad, but that body had become very difficult, it had become a painful place for the soul to inhabit, so it is actually better that the person has gone elsewhere. The person, the soul, continues to exist. He or she has gone to live somewhere else where there will be less pain and suffering. Still, we do not deny the sense of personal loss. Even among transcendentalists, there are various emotions. When a perfect yogi leaves the body, we know that the person is qualified to enter the Kingdom of God, so we are happy. But, we are both happy and sad. We are happy because we know that the person is going to God to serve God, but we are sad because we will miss the person’s association. Still, such departed souls, we believe, can inspire and guide their loved ones who remain behind.

Then, there is also the idea that God is responsive to prayer. When a loved one leaves the body, we know that the soul exists somewhere. We don’t know where, but we want to help the soul because we love that person. So, we even pray to God, Wherever my mother is now or my father or whoever, please be merciful. Please help her come closer to You. And I believe that those prayers will not only help the departed soul but also give us a chance to continue the relationship, and try to help our loved one even after he or she has left the body.`

So, this is a big topic, and I do want to leave time for questions and answers, but I will conclude with a nice prayer in Sanskrit by Maharaja Kulasekhara that Srila Prabhupada often quoted:

kṛṣṇa tvadīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam
adyaiva me viśatu mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ
prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ
kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaraṇaṁ kutas te

The devotee prays to the Lord, “My dear Krishna, please let me die immediately so that the swan of my mind may be encircled in the stem of Your lotus feet. Otherwise, at the time of my final breath, when my throat is choked up, how will it be possible for me to remember You and chant Your holy name?” 

This may seem contrary to our materialistic culture which is so preoccupied with pampering and preserving the body, with staying in the body as long as possible, and squeezing out the last possible drop of pleasure. This prayer, in opposition to that mad vain pursuit, offers a more philosophical perspective. It is a different perspective on dying, even before old age—one that is positive and spiritual. 

So, my dear devotees, thank you for joining me to discuss this important topic. And now, I do believe we have some time for questions and comments. So, if you wish to say anything, please raise your hand—your physical hand or your virtual hand.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Hare Krishna Maharaja, thank you so much for this wonderful class, and you really highlighted how can we remember the Lord at the time of death. And especially, you mentioned very nicely how can we help the family or even ourselves who are grieving at the time of somebody’s passing away. And so beautifully you put it and that is really helpful to us. So, I would like anybody on the call today to, if they want to ask questions, it will be nice to have questions relevant to the topic that we have discussed today. And then, of course, if time permits, then we can ask other questions. So, please raise your hand or if you want to put it on a chat, we will try and read out the question as well. 

So Maharaja, while people are preparing for the questions, I just might want to request you to… this is a common question which is often asked that you mentioned about the very delicate balance about the medication at the time of death when somebody is in pain. And that is when the person is, say, conscious, but a lot of people are relatively semi-conscious or even unconscious. They are on ventilator, or they are in comatose, just before they pass away. So, there is always a question that how does that tie in with remembering the Lord because at the moment of death and somebody’s comatose cannot remember the Lord? So, would Krishna remember that person? And how would Krishna see that person or their devotion, despite not being able to remember the Lord immediately before death?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, you said it very nicely. Krishna. . . I have the quotation actually, but anyway, the idea is what you said that if due to circumstances. . . Krishna says that, “If due to circumstances, My devotee cannot remember Me and chant My name at the time of death, I will remember My devotee.” Yes, absolutely! 

Sundarananda Prabhu: We have Rasa Sundari Mataji, would you like to unmute yourself and ask your question? Rasa Sundari Mataji, you are muted. Ajit Rupa Prabhu, is there a problem her unmuting herself?

Rasa Sundari Mataji: Hare Krishna Guru Maharaja and all the assembled devotees. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Your Divine Grace! I have a question in the sense also what Prabhu just asked. For example, we have what it is like a… it is not really a last will, but you could have a paper where you… what you carry with you. For example, in an accident or something like this, where you don’t. . . where your last wish is that you don’t want to have any life prolonging, I don’t know how you call it, measurements maybe, something like this. So, for example, putting you on a ventilator or of things like this. So, I was wondering in the life of a devotee. . . because I just read today that there was this one devotee Bhakti Mādhurya Govinda Maharaja. I just read today that he left his body last year I think, or maybe already two years ago, actually, he didn’t want to get on a ventilator, and then. . . but they said that he could have not been breathing without the ventilator. So, I was wondering in the case of a devotee, what should we do? Should we have such a will? Or should we just give in to whatever they want to do with us? This is always, I don’t know, what you explain myself.. no? yes?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I mean every patient has the right to decide whether he or she wants to prolong his or her life by what we might call artificial means. And it is the right of the person to decide. And sometimes having a… There is something, I think it is called The Five Wishes, something like that in which the person expresses his wishes for the time when he is close to death. And that is beneficial not only so that the person gets what he wishes, but also so that the loved ones are not placed in a difficult predicament of having to try to figure out, you know, what to do to make these agonizing decisions. So, yes, there are documents like that in which the person can record his or her wishes. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja. We have Dr. Devesh Shapra. Dr. Devesh Shapra is a General Practitioner practicing in London. Devesh, if you want, you can unmute yourself.

Dr. Devesh Shapra: So Maharaja, thank you very much for that enlightening class. And mine is a more of a practical thing. As a GP (General Practitioner), sometimes, and it is really asking for practical help, the reality of death is that we see it all the time, unfortunately, in our jobs and sometimes, it can become a very sort of detached thing that we see, and it becomes an automatic process, and then you have the other end, where you can become very emotionally attached in certain situations. How do we maintain that balance and that empathy in the long term because when we are dealing with people from various backgrounds, we are dealing with people from all different sorts of backgrounds, to people that are religious, not religious and different sort of views, but really, how do we maintain that sort of inner balance to give that sort of support in the right way?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is a very good question. I think now of. . . Just after the Juhu temple opened. . . And Srila Prabhupada had departed just two months before the temple opened. So, I showed a film to a devotee. He was our RK Mahesh Wari Advocate and later was initiated as Mahaprabhu dasa. And looking at this footage of Srila Prabhupada, he said, “My God! I have never seen anyone like him. He has so much love, but at the same time, he is so detached.” Usually, if someone has love, he is attached, and if someone’s detached, he doesn’t have love. But, he could see in Srila Prabhupada that he had both, love, but at the same time, he was detached. And so, the idea is that if you are attached to Krishna, then actually you become detached from maya. And if you are attached to Krishna, then you feel a kinship with all of Krishna’s parts and parcels, and you may feel compassion for them. So yes, we want to feel for the people that we are treating, and I think it is good to feel for them. And if they pass away, and we feel some sadness or sorrow, I don’t think that is a bad thing. I mean, of course, it shouldn’t overwhelm you to the point that you can’t function. But, I think to feel some separation or some disappointment is okay. I don’t think that is wrong or bad. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja. We have got another Prabhu, Dr. Kapil Chawla is also a General Practitioner practicing in London, and has a special interest in natural way of health and wellness. Dr. Kapil Chawla, can you unmute yourself?

Dr. Kapil Chawla: Please accept my businesses. Thank you very much Maharaja for leading this wonderful sangha. And thank you very much for all the assembled Vaishnava’s to join this. Maharaja, my question is there are subset of people, devotees will be leaving their body even in a comatose state or not being able to make a decision as Sundarananda Prabhu mentioned, and also some people may write of advanced directives about how they want to get end of the life care. There is still a population of devotees who would be wanting to spend the last moments with the family members at home, in the congregation, maybe not in the hospital, or even in the hospital. We have quite a few examples recently in our congregations. So, my question is how as a congregation, we should be geared up to providing that kind of facility? In a traditional outside world, we have hospice-at-home care, so the palliative care team go visit their homes and everything. So same way, I mean, do you have any blueprint or any suggestion or advice or any plans to extend this to, as the congregation is worldwide increasing across the temples, and more and more people are devotees and are living outside the temples. If someone is living in the temple, I think it is probably easier to leave the body because they decided to stay in the ashram. We can create a separate room and place, and the devotees are there, all the paraphernalia, everything is there, but in the community, do you have any sort of advice and things how the congregation should be geared up to provide such facility for the departing Vaishnava? Especially, for the kind of service, or whatever lifetime they have contributed, at least at that moment, we should try our very best to somehow facilitate and support them. Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: So, I was, you could say instrumental in establishing the Bhaktivedanta Hospice in Vrindavan. So, devotees can leave their bodies in Vrindavan with medical support. Of course, we are talking about palliative care in the hospice. And as you mentioned, a lot of hospice care is done at homes. So, the doctors from Bhaktivedanta Hospice, they go out into the community and minister to people at home. And then there is also something called “Respite care” so that the family members who are caring for the patient at home can get a break. So, for a period of whatever, a few days or a week or two, the patient will come into the Hospice so that the caregivers at home can get a break, have some respite. I work with a devotee, also Srila Prabhupada’s disciple, named Sangeeta devi dasi, and she has established an organization called Vaishnava’s Care to minister to dying patients and their loved ones. And she has recommended. . . although, it is not always possible, but that every temple community should have a room, it doesn’t have to be dedicated to end-of-life care, but it should be there, to be made available in case there is need for end-of-life care. And she trains what she calls Vaishnava’s care teams, so they know how to deal with dying patients and their loved ones. And she set up Vaishnava Care teams in many places. I know one place is Houston because I was there with her when she was doing it. And she gives seminars online, and she can really help people to learn how to minister to dying patients and their loved ones. And yes, I don’t know if she is ever given a seminar for devotees, but I am sure that she would be willing to if you wanted, but yes, we should be equipped, I mean as individuals, we should be equipped to minister to dying patients and their loved ones at home or wherever they are, including at home. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja, I also wanted to highlight that we also have members of the Radha-Krishna Deaf and Dumb Sangha from London joining us today here. And Pavitra Mataji is sign-languaging them, so we can see them on the screen as well. So, thank you very much for joining. Maharaja, Korostava [unintelligible 00:56:00] Mataji has a question for you, and she is put it on the chat, so if you don’t mind, I can read that for you. After paying her obeisances and mentioning glories to Prabhupada and to yourself and to the assembled devotees, she has two questions. The first question is: what happens to a soul who commits suicide but has practiced Krishna Consciousness during his lifetime? And a very similar question is: what happens to the soul of a devotee that leaves the body in other difficult circumstances like violence, murder, accident, certain unexpected circumstances, or those who are exhausted with themselves with pain and suffering?

Giriraj Swami: Regarding the first question about suicide, of course, suicide is very sinful. And generally, if someone commits suicide, he will become a ghost because in effect, the person who commits suicide is saying he doesn’t want a physical body. But, ghosts are very tortured because usually someone commits suicide because they have material desires and are frustrated and disappointed; so, they commit suicide. So, they still have the material desires, but they don’t have the physical body through which they can fulfil their desires. And so, they often try to take possession of somebody else’s body to fulfil their desires through someone else’s senses. 

It does happen, unfortunately, that even devotees commit suicide. And we can only pray for them. Prayer is very important and also effective. Yes, we can’t really say for sure what happens to a devotee who commits suicide, but we can certainly say that praying for them will help whatever their situation is. 

And as far as a devotee dying in unusual, I don’t know if unusual is the right way or word to use, but, in unexpected circumstances, it happens. Even His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami passed away in a car crash, His Grace Aindra Prabhu passed away in a fire, but their devotional service will not go in vain for sure. And Tamal Krishna Goswami, when we were with Srila Prabhupada in Gorakhpur, he said to Srila Prabhupada that, “I am so busy in your service, what if death comes and I am engaged in your service, and I am not in a situation where I will think of Krishna, and chant the holy name of Krishna?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Don’t worry. At the time of death, Lord Chaitanya will forcibly enter your mind.” And so I heard that many years ago, perhaps in 1971, when we were in Gorakhpur. And then, just recently, I came across a similar instruction from Srila Prabhupada to another devotee in another context where he said that Lord Chaitanya will forcibly enter your mind. So yes, they are being called by Srila Prabhupada, they are being called by Krishna, whatever the circumstances may be. And as Srila Prabhupada said, as I mentioned, when a Vaishnava departs, we feel both happy and sad. We feel happy because we know they are going to serve Prabhupada and Krishna. We feel sad because we will miss their association.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you so much Maharaja. Before I take the next question, I just wanted to remind everybody on the call that this ISKCON Healthcare Professional UK group is a group of healthcare professional devotees who are trying to help each other in advancing their spiritual lives, but not only that, remaining deep-rooted in the spiritual life and advancing, we can serve others better, we can be better professionals, we can be better human beings, and we can be better care giving and compassionate people. And I acknowledge Sukhanti Radha Mataji who has brought this group together and all glories to her service. So, I just wanted to remind everybody that we meet every fortnight, and this is just a way to try and keep ourselves, in this difficult COVID times and otherwise as well, in difficult services that we perform as healthcare professionals, to stay rooted. And I think it is extremely important that when we are very well situated in spiritual life, our material life and material service would be better, too. Then, it will be in form of a devotional service anyways because when we are giving a service to the patients, we are giving it as if we are representatives of Krishna Consciousness or Srila Prabhupada’s mission, and that brings us the extra care and compassion that we would like to offer, and not only serve the body but also the soul in that way.

So Maharaja, the next question is from Anil Jordiya. Unfortunately, he is at work, so he can’t unvideo himself. So, he is asking the question that at the same time, how do we stay internally peaceful with their decisions detrimental for them? I presume that is the question regarding the patients who have made some decisions which are detrimental for them. How do we, as healthcare professionals, stay internally peaceful when we are seeing them making that decision?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, what kind of decisions is she referring to?

Devotee: I suspect that one of the decisions could be that we could see that somebody is trying to prolong their life because they have so much attachment to this world, or not wanting to leave despite knowing that that is a better option. Hence, I think we can see that internally, they are making a wrong decision. They should be leaving peacefully, but. . . So, when we see that, of course, it is their choice, so we have to conduct that decision as medical care professionals, but we are internally disturbed by that. So, how do we ourselves stay internally peaceful when we see them making a wrong decision?

Giriraj Swami: I would say, by intense chanting and praying. I mean, we can pray for them, and we can also pray that we don’t get affected by their bad choices. Yes, we have to take shelter of Krishna in all circumstances, but in particular, take shelter of Krishna when we see someone making bad choices. We can also pray that Krishna in their heart will enlighten them and change their decision. So, that may or may not happen, but at least we have done our part by praying for it. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Maharaja, your answers are so beautiful and just so simple. I wish we could all make our lives so simple as. . . just always in awe when you say these things Maharaja. Thank you so much. We have got Sundari dasi Mataji who has raised the question. We can’t see her properly in the video, but I am sure she is there. Mataji, please unmute yourself.

Sundari Mataji: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. 

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Sundari Mataji: Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Prabhupada and Your Divine Grace! How are you, Guru Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: I am very fine. 

Sundari Mataji: So nice to hear your classes. And especially, today’s one, it is really nice instructions you have given. And the whole lecture was really good. Guru Maharaja, I have two questions: If our loved ones are abroad, and we can’t get there on time, so will our prayers. . . How can we pray for them? Or how can I help? How can we help them to remember Krishna? 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, your prayers will help. And if you are able to communicate electronically or whatever with the person, or with other people around the person who are devotees or at least sympathetic to Krishna consciousness, they can help create a favorable situation for that person to leave his body in Krishna consciousness. Yes, I have come across many stories of family members who are not particularly Krishna conscious or even favorable to Krishna consciousness, but when the end of life came for a loved one, they somehow went beyond their previous prejudices, and they helped the person to leave in Krishna consciousness.

Sundari Mataji: Thank you. So, when we pray for them, when we do our congregational chanting for them from far away, or if we are reading for them to have a good see-off, will they get good benefit for from our prayers as well?

Giriraj Swami: They will… They will benefit from your prayers, from your chanting, from your reading. They will benefit.

Sundari Mataji: Thank you Guru Maharaja. And my second question is, Guru Maharaja, in Īśopaniṣad mantra Seventeen, I came across this verse because all our life we say to Krishna, we haven’t done much, we can do more, we can do more, but something is written here, “Let this temporary body be burnt to ashes, and let the air of life be merged with the totality of air. Now,” so this is at the time of death, “Now, O my Lord, please remember all my sacrifices, and because You are the ultimate beneficiary, please remember all that I have done for You.”

Giriraj Swami: Yes?

Sundari Mataji: So, here we are saying, please remember all that I have done for You, but we always think we haven’t done enough for Krishna, we are not doing enough. So, I don’t understand this. How can we pray, please remember all that I have done for You?

Giriraj Swami: The two are not contradictory. I feel like I haven’t done much, I could have done more, and I should have done more, but whatever I have done, oh Lord, please remember it and take it into account at my final moment.

Sundari Mataji: Oh, thank you Guru Maharaja. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja. We have Malati Mataji. Malati Matji, would you like to unmute yourself?

Sundari Mataji: Thank you. Hare Krishna. 

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Malati Mataji: Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisances, Guru Maharaja. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Your Diving Grace. 

Giriraj Swami: Can you speak louder or turn up the volume? I mean we can hear you but it is soft.

Malati Mataji: Hare Krishna, now is it better, Guru Maharaja? 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, a little bit.

Malati Mataji: Actually, Guru Maharaja, it is suggested to have hospice care at home when your loved one is not feeling well, but then it is said that it is better to leave your body outside home because there are no more attachments to leave your body. Because if a person, if a devotee also, is leaving his body at home, so it becomes tough for the person who is taking care of the devotee, it becomes very tough to get off with those attachments because when you are with people who are… who love you so much, so it becomes more difficult. So, Guru Maharaja, how is it that hospice care to be taken at home? Then, you need those trained people around because you cannot do the same at home. So, what is this suggestion, Guru Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if the loved ones can find it within themselves, they can tell the soul who is approaching the end that they give them permission to go. We love you, we know it is time for you to move on, we give you permission to go, everything will be all right here without you. You can even mention specific things that the person might be concerned about—how those will be managed in the person’s absence. And quite often, it happens that because of that attachment of the loved ones that the departing soul will wait until they leave the room, and then, they will go. It happens quite often because they don’t want to disappoint their loved ones. But, they have to go, so they wait till they are out of the room, and then they depart.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you Maharaja, there was a question from one of the. . . in the chats, and then we will come to the live question. Unfortunately, we can’t decode the name because it only says iPhone so this person has paid their obeisances to you, Maharaja, and then the question is: It has been said that people, when they are close to death, tend to see their family members who have passed away long ago. Do they really see them in spirit or they are they hallucinating?

Giriraj Swami: Sundarananda Prabhu, would you like to answer this question?

Sundarananda Prabhu: Maharaja, the floor is yours Maharaja, today.

Giriraj Swami: Those things happen. I have also heard of those, and even in the case of my mother. I don’t know really, if they are just imagining it, but yes, I can’t say, I can’t say for sure. But, it is possible, it is possible that they could really come, why not? But, I can’t say for sure.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Maharaja, medically there is. . . If there is an altered state of consciousness, obviously, the memories in the subconscious state can be brought up and revived depending on what sort of level of consciousness that person has, and what they are remembering. So, clearly that is a possibility that it might not be quite hallucination, but just the way the circuits are firing at that time because of the altered consciousness, that is a possibility. Maharaja, we have the Dibya Dalai asking a question. Can you please, if possible, switch your video on so that Maharaja can actually see you and unmute yourself?

Dibya Dalai: Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Dibya Dalai: Daṇḍavat praṇāma. I am from Dallas.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Yes, I recognize you.

Dibya Dalai: So Maharaja, before I ask the question, this is just a reflection. I thought about the question before, one of the devotees asked how can we, when we are remote, how can we help others to get into Krishna consciousness? So, I had a friend, Maharaja. He was in my office. He is from West Bengal, and he was not Krishna conscious. He was not coming in, and then because we were eating together, I used to give him prasādam, and then slowly by eating, he got interested. I had strong faith that Srila Prabhupada had said that just by simply feeding prasādam, in which is there is no austerity, people love to eat it, and by eating prasādam also, your consciousness can change. So, I never forced him. So, by taking prasādam and then slowly, he started asking me about things – how, why I see the people that you interact with are very happy. This, that, and many things came in.

So, one day he asked me a very nice question. He said, “I am away from my parents, and somehow I am now convinced.” I mean, now he joins our Bhakti-vriksha every day without fail, just listens in, doesn’t ask many questions but listens in. So, he asked me, “So, how can I help them?” (his parents). So, I said, because you are very far away, and they are not in Krishna consciousness, the best thing that you can do is, if you are nearby, then definitely read Bhagavad-gītā to them. If you are not near them, then the one thing that you can do that… What came to my mind is that I thought about Srila Prabhupada’s chanting machine. You can just keep it with them, so that they can keep on listening to the voice of Srila Prabhupada chanting, Hare Krishna maha-mantra. And by that, even though they are engaged with so many things in their mind, only by listening, their consciousness can change… I mean, that example came to my mind because I was hearing from Radha Govinda Swami Maharaja, and he was saying that just like if you go and touch a wire which is open, even though your mind is somewhere else, you will still get the current. Very similarly, if you are chanting the holy name or listening to the holy name, even though your mind is somewhere else, you will still get the benefit. So, I said that is the best thing that you can do.

And very recently, his grandmother passed away. He never told me but after everything was over, he told me that, I listened to you, and somehow I arranged a Srila Prabhupada’s chanting machine for my grandmother, and I kept it with her for almost a week. I think, he said you will not believe that, it is a miracle. She forgot all her pain, and then she was continuously hearing that, and with a very blissful mood, she passed away from this world. And she doesn’t know anything about ISKCON; She doesn’t know anything about Prabhupada; She doesn’t know anything about Krishna consciousness; She just heard that voice because he requested many times that you should do this, and she just listened. He said, I now believe that this has some power. 

So, after that, I was talking to my wife Gauri Kumari. I was saying, we are telling so many things, but we don’t have that faith to do in our life. But, sometimes we tell because we heard from the right source, that benefits so many people. So, that is one of the instances I just wanted to share because I heard that question before—this was very relating to that. So, we can always advise. We will not be able to be there with our near and dear ones always, but there will be. . . just like once you replied, Maharaja, that there are people who are not Krishna conscious, but they can create some favorable situation for us, if we request them, and we can still help our near and dear ones to get the thought (of remembering Krishna) in their mind during leaving this body.

So, with that Maharaja, I wanted to ask my question also. Very similar question but, Maharaja, I always go for book distribution, I do all these services but, when it comes to my life, I have seen many times that I tell others that you should follow Bhagavad-gītā. If anybody asked, what to do about this problem I am facing, then I give some reference to Bhagavad-gītā saying, you should read this, and then you should understand how Srila Prabhupada has explained in that. But, when it comes to our life, my life, then immediately I don’t think of Bhagavad-gītā; I think how can I solve myself that problem. And there is a doubt. Just by listening to your lecture, I was thinking, it should not happen. When I am leaving this body, I should not employ my mind to get out of that situation rather than thinking about Krishna. So, how do we…? The more I think, the more difficult it becomes. When I think about it that how should I pass my final exam? When it comes, just like you said that Srila Prabhupada had said that if we have thought about Krishna, then He will forcefully get into our consciousness. Now, I don’t know if we will get that chance because I am not that purified, so how do we…? When situation comes to me, then I am always thinking about how can I myself get out of that, not by thinking about what Srila Prabhupada has said, what Giriraj Swami Maharaja has said to me, or what Bhagavad-gītā has said, but I always think about how can I get out of that. So, how do we actually practically apply that, Maharaja, in our life that we also follow ourselves when we give these examples to others?

Giriraj Swami: I would recommend sincere attempt of offenseless chanting. Basically you are saying that you have heard so many good instructions, but you don’t always apply them. And I think prayerful chanting to purify your heart and make you open to receiving the instructions in and following them. Yes, the chanting is very important. ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Yes.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you so much, Maharaja. We will just take two more questions which are… They are already there and then we will call it… I will stop this question-answer session. Maharaja, this question is actually from the Facebook live broadcast from Becky Maggie, and the question is that—is there an end of life worksheet or guide we can obtain to give directions to our families who do not know how to honor a Krishna conscious death? Perhaps, a guide that has pictures of Krishna and links to audio files the person leaving their body can listen to, and also a grief guide that helps them and those staying behind deal with grief and Krishna consciousness.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I would recommend two books: one is mine, Life’s Final Exam—Death and Dying from the Vedic Perspective. And Mother Sangeeta has written one, very practical, called The Final Journey. And The Final Journey gives many tips about how to help the soul who is in the process of leaving the body. And also, how to support the loved ones who are feeling aggrieved due to the to the loss of their loved one. Yes, can you read the question again? I am not sure if I addressed it fully.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Yes, I will do that again. The question was around—is there an end of life worksheet or guide we can obtain and to give directions to our families who don’t know how to honor a Krishna conscious death? And the second part was – perhaps, a guide that has pictures of Krishna and links to audio files the person leaving their body can listen to, and a grief guide that helps those staying behind deal with grief in a Krishna conscious way, so there is three parts.

Giriraj Swami: I think these books will help. I mean, I don’t know about something with links like she was saying. But I think these books are really good. It is not something that you can just read a worksheet in one or two minutes, and then you are equipped. To really minister to someone who is leaving the body or to their loved ones, one has to go a little deep into the subject. And so, I think these two books Life’s Final Exam and The Final Journey are good resources. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you, Maharaja. I was hoping to take one more question but because this another question has come up from the Radha-Krishna Deaf and Dumb group, I don’t want to miss that question out. But can I first ask Yadurani Mataji to unmute yourself and ask that question which you wanted to ask. Yadurani Mataji is one of our organizers of this group, so Yadurani Mataji, can you unmute yourself?

Yadurani Mataji: Hare Krishna, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to you! Your wonderful talk, it was amazing! Thank you so much. So, I had a very quick question. I hear that at the time of your loved one passing away, you can read Srila Prabhupada’s book, you can chant, you can hear kirtan, and everything will, I am sure, make a difference, but what should we read? Or, what is the best thing at that time? And I am sure it is in your book, but I haven’t read your book and apology.

Giriraj Swami: It would depend on the level of consciousness of the loved one. My disciple Arca Vigraha devi dasi whose… It was actually her desire on deathbed that led to the creation of the hospice. And yes, this is her picture here, and then there is a picture of me. She is on her, well you say, death bed. I am feeding her Radha-kunda water and then, there is a picture of the hospice. So, fortunately, our next door neighbor or our next door neighbor in Vrindavan is His Holiness Bhakti Bringa Govinda Swami. And he would come over every day; he would bring his deities; he would bring mahā-prasāda from his deities; and he would speak with her. And we are talking about remembering Krishna at the time of death, so what does that mean? And he advised her. . . Well, that was another thing that every day, devotees would come over and read to her. And we read a play of Rupa Gosvami’s. Well, there is two—Vidagdha-mādhava

and Lalita-mādhava. And all the different senior devotees, Shivrama Swami, Govinda Maharaja, Tamal Krishna Goswami, they would all come over. And I was there, and we would take different… We would read different parts in the drama. So, there was quite an infusion of kṛṣṇa-kathā in relation to kṛṣṇa-līlā. And so, Govinda Maharaja was advising her that she should try to absorb herself in kṛṣṇa-līlā. And of course, what I am going to say next can’t really be done artificially, but if the person feels a natural attraction to a particular type of service to Krishna, then the devotee can focus on that. And try to remember that at the time of death. But, yes, so I would say it is very good leading up to that stage for the person that they have a lot of hearing about kṛṣṇa-līlā so that they can think of Krishna and His pastimes at the end with a mood of wanting to join those pastimes and serve Krishna. I mean, these are quite elevated topics but that would be, I would say, ideal if the patient is able to hear the pastimes and relish them. I am very indebted to His Holiness Bhakti Bringa Govinda Swami Maharaja for the way he helped Mother Arca Vigraha in her last months and weeks. And yes, I was there. There were a few of us with her when she left… chanting. 

Sundarananda Prabhu: I can see how affected you would have been because when you are just mentioning it, I can see the emotions flowing through your mind. And you are absolutely right, we are all humans. It doesn’t matter how much we know the philosophy. When somebody departs or supported [unintelligible 01:30:00], so the emotions we feel fully. Maharaja, there are lots of questions, but unfortunately, we don’t have that much time. I will just take one last question on behalf of the Radha-Krishna Deaf and Dumb group because we do respect their participation and really appreciate that they are joining us. And my very sincere apologies to two or three devotees who wanted to ask more questions. We have, I don’t know what a significant amount of time, but I will definitely invite Maharaja again, if Maharaja allows us to be invited. Definitely, you’ll have a chance to ask questions. So, Pavitra Mataji, can you please unmute yourself to ask the last question of the evening? 

Pavitra Mataji: Thank you so much. Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to you, Guru Maharaja! Guru Maharaja, my question is: the hearing devotees, they get to hear all the kṛṣṇa-kathā and kirtan and everything. What about the deaf devotees when it comes to their last moments? 

Giriraj Swami: Well, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ—the goal is to remember Narayana or Krishna at the time of death ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ. So, one way is by chanting but for the deaf devotees, there are other ways such as looking at pictures. We heard about the power of prasāda. And so, placing Radha-kunda water or Yamuna water or Ganges water in their mouth, that will help them. Yes, having tulasi there. . . And I did want to mention one thing earlier, it is not so relevant to the deaf devotees, but for ordinary people, the last sense to go is the sense of hearing. And so, a patient may be in a coma, what appears to be a coma, but they can still hear, so we want to keep the chanting going, keep the kṛṣṇa-kathā going. Don’t say anything that you would not want the person to hear because they might actually be hearing it. So yes, I think yes, ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ. There are many ways we can help the deaf devotees remember Krishna at the time of death, even though they can’t hear.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Maharaja, can I just I add couple of points on that aspect? Maharaja, I just thought that when the Hare Krishna maha-mantra chanting is going on, there is so many waves produced, and then there is… it is just that it obviously goes to the ear, but I am sure the potency of the maha-mantra goes through other senses of the body. And also Maharaja, although we hear, there is an air conduction but there is also a bony conduction. So, you will have to remember that tuning fork which was placed on our forehead and we heard it in the air. So, maybe some sort of device could be just placed with the maha-mantra playing on, and just attached to the forehead, and that vibration can go through in the air. That is another option.

Giriraj Swami: Brilliant, brilliant, thank you! 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you so much, sorry.

Pavitra Mataji: Guru Maharaja, there is one more thing. I wondered if you can still carry on with the kirtan because even though they can’t hear through their gross bodies, the subtle body can hear. Is that right? They can hear through their subtle body and that will help them?

Giriraj Swami: I mean, similar to what Sundarananda Prabhu, said, yes, the kirtan will be beneficial, the vibration, the transcendental vibration.

Pavitra Mataji: Thank you so much! 

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you so much, Maharaja! This has been an absolutely enlightening session, and we are so indebted to you and also to all the devotees who have joined. Before I say my final words of gratitude, I would like to ask Sukanti Radha Mataji to unmute herself. She is the coordinator of this group, and actually, all credit to her because she brought this group together. It was initially a nursing group, but then she had the magnanimity to open it to us, the Non-Nurses Healthcare Professionals. So, thank you so much to her. Mataji, if you would like to make any announcements that are there, so then I will express the final word of gratitude, thank you. You can’t unmute yourself, so let me see. 

Devotee: Yes Mataji, please go ahead. You are unmuted.

Sukanti Radha Mataji: Hare Krishna, thank you so much Maharaja! That was absolutely wonderful! The information you shared was things that we would actually use every day of our life as healthcare professionals, so we are really grateful to you. I am also very grateful to the people who asked the most amazing questions because you also learn so much from the questions. That is why I love the question time, so thank you to all the people who ask the most amazing questions. So, it was really fantastic. And as always, thanks to Sundarananda Prabhu who always does a great job in these kind of situations. And I wanted to actually remind everyone that on the 31st, His Grace Sundarananda Prabhu is going to be giving us a talk. And as many people as possible can please come from our group. Obviously, it is not going to be open to everybody except for our group. And as for those people who don’t know, ISKCON is going to be launching the e-Global Healthcare Committee of which Sundarananda Prabhu is the Chairman. And so, we are very fortunate in the UK to have him in the UK with us because this group which is the Healthcare Professionals is actually part of the Global Healthcare Committee. So, we obviously meet every second Monday. And so, that first Monday, we are hoping he is going to be our speaker, and set the tone for the year, and give us some enlightenment. He is our guide, our mentor, and we really respect him so much for all that he is doing for us. So, we will be really looking forward to hearing from him. So, I would really like all the members to please come on board and listen to that talk.

And before you say goodbye as well, just to remind the members on the 14th of February, we will not be having a talk because on that day, it is Lord Nityananda’s Appearance day. So, that day we would like everyone to please support the local temple, and attend the local temple events. And from my end, I think that is all I have as far as the announcements are concerned. 

I am very grateful to see so many wonderful people, devotees. And this also gives me a great idea to understand the needs of the devotees because in talks like this, where we have a Swami, where we have a topic that is of interest to a large community, perhaps we can open it up to a larger community to engage. And I see lots of very interesting questions from the community, so it is giving me an idea how we should present it. So, thank you very much for this, giving me this time to express myself. Thank you very much! Thank you Maharaja. Thank you so much!

Giriraj Swami: Thank you.

Sundarananda Prabhu: Thank you, Mataji! And there was a question from one of the devotees from US as to how they can join this group. Unfortunately, this group is only for the UK Healthcare Professionals but as Mataji mentioned that we are going to be launching the e-Global Healthcare Committee, which is a global initiative. And we have one hundred and twenty-five members right now, and the idea is that these devotees will come together and serve Vaishnavas all across the globe. They will serve the devotees of our Srila Prabhupada’s mission and devotees of Krishna, so that they will be serving them voluntarily, free of cost, through a virtual platform. This is a virtual hospital that we have created, so if anybody wants to any medical professional or healthcare professional wants to join the group, you are very welcome to contact me directly, and I will be happy to do that. 

And I just want to express on that aspect also my greatest gratitude to Maharaja. Maharaja has personally written to a lot of doctor devotees. And I have just got at least eight wonderful devotees from the US who have joined the group, very enthusiastic, rearing to go, and rearing to serve. And their enthusiasm is very infectious. So, that is all about the e-Global Healthcare Committee which we will be announcing probably next, when I speak in two weeks’ time. But, today is all about His Holiness Giriraj Swami and Maharaja has really enlightened us, given us his words of wisdom, but Maharaja puts it so simply. But, at the same time, the knowledge, the message is so deep, and I think we need to have a reflection after this meeting. We need to think about that we are all mortal souls; this is all going to come to us; this is all going to come to our relatives; this is all going to come to our friends; this is all going to come to our people around us and beyond around us. So, it is a time to take Krishna Consciousness extremely seriously. It is not a luxury. It is like the house is on fire. We are not going to wait to collect our passports and belongings, and then try to run out. So, here is an emergency that we really need to practice Krishna Consciousness more seriously, and talks like this remind us that this is not a luxury. We are so fortunate by Srila Prabhupada’s mercy coming through his disciples like His Holiness Giriraj Swami that they are reminding us that this is something that we should take very seriously. When we take it seriously, when we do this preparation for the final examination, then only we will be able to pass the final examination. Otherwise, there is absolutely no hope that we can do that.

So Maharaja, on behalf of the ISKCON Healthcare UK Professional group, we are extremely indebted to you. We are also very indebted to all the devotees who joined and also the members of this group who have joined together and supported us. And Maharaja, thank you so much and we will definitely request you to please come again because this has been one of the most popular talks we have had—about eighty members today. So, again, extreme gratitude to you, and thank you very much, and hopefully we will be having your association very soon Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Jaya! Okay, well, if we are going to end now, I suggest we conclude with Vaishnava praṇāma.

Let us offer our respectful obeisances unto all the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord who are just like desire trees, who can fulfil the desires of everyone and are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls.

vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca
kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

Ananta koṭi vaiṣṇava-vṛnda—kī jaya! Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! ISKCON UK Medical group ki jaya!

Sundarananda Prabhu: His Holiness Giriraj Swami Maharaja ki jaya.

Thank you Maharaja. Hare Krishna. Good night to all, and we will see you in two weeks’ time.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.