SB 6.13.3 – Vrtrasura’s Death and Indra’s Unhappiness

Giriraj Swami: We begin with prayers and leading a short kirtan, and then we will discuss today’s section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And as far as possible, I would like to request the devotees on Zoom to put on their cameras so we can see their moon-like faces, and it is more personal.

[Prayers]

So, my dear devotees, now we shall read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter Thirteen, Text Three.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

TEXT 3

śrī-rājovāca
indrasyānirvṛter hetuṁ
śrotum icchāmi bho mune
yenāsan sukhino devā
harer duḥkhaṁ kuto ‘bhavat

TRANSLATION

Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired from Śukadeva Gosvāmī: O great sage, what was the reason for Indra’s unhappiness? I wish to hear about this. When he killed Vṛtrāsura, all the demigods were extremely happy. Why, then, was Indra himself unhappy?

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This, of course, is a very intelligent question. When a demon is killed, certainly all the demigods are happy. In this case, however, when all the demigods were happy because of Vṛtrāsura’s having been killed, Indra was unhappy. Why? It may be suggested that Indra was unhappy because he knew that he had killed a great devotee and brāhmaṇa. Vṛtrāsura outwardly appeared to be a demon, but inwardly he was a great devotee and therefore a great brāhmaṇa.

COMMENT

So the history of Vṛtrāsura is very interesting and instructive. In fact, Vṛtrāsura was a great devotee. But due to circumstances, he appeared as a demon, but actually, he was a great devotee. And in the fighting with Indra, Indra lost hope that he could defeat Vṛtrāsura, because Vṛtrāsura was such a formidable opponent and so powerful. But Vṛtrāsura, due to his noble character as a great devotee, encouraged Indra, “Don’t give up hope; keep fighting. Eventually, you will kill me.” So Vṛtrāsura was such a great soul; such a noble person. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada says, it may be suggested that Indra was unhappy, because he knew that he had killed a great devotee and brahman. Vṛtrāsura outwardly appeared to be a demon, but inwardly he was a great devotee.

PURPORT (continued)

Herein it is clearly indicated that a person who is not at all demoniac, such as Prahlāda Mahārāja and Bali Mahārāja, may outwardly be a demon or be born in a family of demons. Therefore in terms of real culture one should not be considered a demigod or demon simply according to birth. In his dealings while fighting with Indra, Vṛtrāsura proved himself to be a great devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Furthermore, as soon as he finished fighting with Indra and was apparently killed, Vṛtrāsura was transferred to Vaikuṇṭhaloka to become an associate of Saṅkarṣaṇa. Indra knew this, and therefore he was morose at having killed such a demon, who was actually a Vaiṣṇava or brāhmaṇa.

A Vaiṣṇava is already a brāhmaṇa, although a brāhmaṇa may not be a Vaiṣṇava. The Padma Purāṇa says:

ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro
mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ
avaiṣṇavo gurur na syād
vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ

One may be a brāhmaṇa in terms of his culture and family and may be expert in Vedic knowledge (mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ), but if he is not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot be a guru. This means that an expert brāhmaṇa may not be a Vaiṣṇava, but a Vaiṣṇava is already a brāhmaṇa. A millionaire may very easily possess hundreds and thousands of dollars, but a person with hundreds and thousands of dollars is not necessarily a millionaire.

COMMENT

So the idea is that a Vaishnava is like a millionaire, and therefore, he already possesses hundreds and thousands of dollars. In other words, he is already a brahman. But a person with hundreds of thousands of dollars is not necessarily a millionaire. In other words, a brahman is not necessarily a Vaishnava.

PURPORT (continued)

Vṛtrāsura was a perfect Vaiṣṇava, and therefore he was also a brāhmaṇa.

TEXT 4

śrī-śuka uvāca
vṛtra-vikrama-saṁvignāḥ
sarve devāḥ saharṣibhiḥ
tad-vadhāyārthayann indraṁ
naicchad bhīto bṛhad-vadhāt

TRANSLATION

Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī answered: When all the great sages and demigods were disturbed by the extraordinary power of Vṛtrāsura, they had assembled to ask Indra to kill him. Indra, however, being afraid of killing a brāhmaṇa, declined their request.

TEXT 5

indra uvāca
strī-bhū-druma-jalair eno
viśvarūpa-vadhodbhavam
vibhaktam anugṛhṇadbhir
vṛtra-hatyāṁ kva mārjmy aham

TRANSLATION

King Indra replied: When I killed Viśvarūpa, I received extensive sinful reactions, but I was favored by the women, land, trees, and water, and therefore I was able to divide the sin among them.

COMMENT

So the history is that Indra was forced to accept so many sinful reactions for killing Viśvarūpa, who was a brahman and was part of the earlier story of the history of Vṛtrāsura. But he was able to share those sinful reactions with the women, land, trees, and water. And thus he was relieved of suffering all the sinful reactions, himself.

TRANSLATION (continued)

But now if I kill Vṛtrāsura, another brāhmaṇa, how shall I free myself from the sinful reactions?

COMMENT

This was Indra’s reply to the great sages and demigods who asked him to kill Vṛtrāsura.

TEXT 6

śrī-śuka uvāca
ṛṣayas tad upākarṇya
mahendram idam abruvan
yājayiṣyāma bhadraṁ te
hayamedhena mā sma bhaiḥ

TRANSLATION

Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Hearing this, the great sages replied to King Indra, “O King of heaven, all good fortune unto you. Do not fear. We shall perform an aśvamedha sacrifice to release you from any sin you may accrue by killing the brāhmaṇa.”

TEXT 7

hayamedhena puruṣaṁ
paramātmānam īśvaram
iṣṭvā nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ
mokṣyase ‘pi jagad-vadhāt

TRANSLATION

The ṛṣis continued: O King Indra, by performing an aśvamedha sacrifice and thereby pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul, Lord Nārāyaṇa, the supreme controller, one can be relieved even from the sinful reactions for killing the entire world, not to speak of killing a demon like Vṛtrāsura.

TEXT 8–9

brahma-hā pitṛ-hā go-ghno
mātṛ-hācārya-hāghavān
śvādaḥ pulkasako vāpi
śuddhyeran yasya kīrtanāt

tam aśvamedhena mahā-makhena
śraddhānvito ‘smābhir anuṣṭhitena
hatvāpi sabrahma-carācaraṁ tvaṁ
na lipyase kiṁ khala-nigraheṇa

TRANSLATION

One who has killed a brāhmaṇa, one who has killed a cow or one who has killed his father, mother, or spiritual master can be immediately relieved from all sinful reactions simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Nārāyaṇa. Other sinful persons, such as dog-eaters and caṇḍālas, who are less than śūdras, can also be freed in this way. But you are a devotee, and we shall help you by performing the great horse sacrifice. If you please Lord Nārāyaṇa in this way, why should you be afraid? You will be freed even if you kill the entire universe, including the brāhmaṇas, not to speak of killing a disturbing demon like Vṛtrāsura.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

It is said in the Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa:

nāmno hi yāvatī śaktiḥ
pāpa-nirharaṇe hareḥ
tāvat kartuṁ na śaknoti

pātakaṁ pātakī naraḥ

COMMENT

Well, the translation of that verse does not appear here in the purport, but it appears in another purport, and I shall read that translation for you.

 [Reading]

“Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reaction to more sins than he is able to commit.” [Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa]

Now, this verse and translation appear in the purport to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.2.8. And there are many other important verses in that purport. And because we are discussing the holy names and Its power to free one from sinful reactions, I will read the verse and purport. This is a discussion between the Vishnudutas and the Yamadutas.

When Ajamila, who was very sinful, was on his deathbed, he cried out for his son who was named Narayana. At that time, the Yamadutas, the messengers of Yamaraja, the superintendent of death, came to take Ajamila to Yamaraja to be punished, because he was so sinful. But at the same time, the Vishnudutas, the messengers of Lord Vishnu, arrived. And they intervened and said, “No, you do not have jurisdiction over Ajamila, because even though he has been so sinful, he chanted the holy name at the time of his death, and thus he counteracted the reactions to his sins and became free from them.”

SB 6.2.7

Ajāmila has already atoned for all his sinful actions. Indeed, he has atoned not only for sins performed in one life but for those performed in millions of lives, for in a helpless condition he chanted the holy name of Nārāyaṇa. Even though he did not chant purely, he chanted without offense, and therefore he is now pure and eligible for liberation.

COMMENT

So there are three stages of chanting: nāmāparādha, which means offensive; nāmābhāsa, which means offenseless, but not pure. It is in between offensive chanting and pure chanting. And then there is śuddha-nāma, which is pure chanting. So the translation here says, “Even though he did not chant purely, he chanted without offense, and therefore he is now pure and eligible for liberation.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada.

The Yamadūtas had considered only the external situation of Ajāmila. Since he was extremely sinful throughout his life, they thought he should be taken to Yamarāja and did not know that he had become free from the reactions to all his sins. The Viṣṇudūtas therefore instructed that because he had chanted the four syllables of the name Nārāyaṇa at the time of death, he was freed from all sinful reactions. In this regard Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura quotes the following verses from the smṛti-śāstra:

COMMENT

And the first is the one that is quoted in the purport of the section of the Bhāgavatam that we are reading. And the translation, again, is: “Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit.” [Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa] Then, the next verse in the purport is from the Garuḍa Purāṇa.

PURPORT (continued)

avaśenāpi yan-nāmni
kīrtite sarva-pātakaiḥ
pumān vimucyate sadyaḥ
siṁha-trastair mṛgair iva

“If one chants the holy name of the Lord, even in a helpless condition or without desiring to do so, all the reactions to his sinful life depart, just as when a lion roars, all the small animals flee in fear.” [Garuḍa Purāṇa]

COMMENT

And the next verse quoted in this purport is from the Skanda Purāṇa.

PURPORT (continued)

sakṛd uccāritaṁ yena
harir ity akṣara-dvayam
baddha-parikaras tena
mokṣāya gamanaṁ prati

“By once chanting the holy name of the Lord, which consists of the two syllables ha-ri, one guarantees his path to liberation.” [Skanda Purāṇa]

COMMENT

So now we come back to this section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the purport. So, it is said in the Bṛhad-viṣṇu Purāṇa, and then, there is that verse without a translation in this purport that we just read.

PURPORT (continued)

Also, in the Prema-vivarta by Jagadānanda Paṇḍita it is said:

eka kṛṣṇa-nāme pāpīra yata pāpa-kṣaya
bahu janme sei pāpī karite nāraya

This means that by once chanting the holy name of the Lord, one can be freed from the reactions of more sins than he can even imagine performing. The holy name is so spiritually potent that simply by chanting the holy name one can be freed from the reactions to all sinful activities. What, then, is to be said of those who chant the holy name regularly or worship the Deity regularly? For such purified devotees, freedom from sinful reaction is certainly assured.

COMMENT

In the Bhagavad-gītā, also, Lord Krishna says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ 

“Give up all varieties of religion and just surrender to Me. I will protect you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.” [Bg. 18.66]

PURPORT (continued)

This does not mean, however, that one should intentionally commit sinful acts and think himself free from the reaction because he is chanting the holy name. Such a mentality is a most abominable offense at the lotus feet of the holy name. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ: the Lord’s holy name certainly has the potency to neutralize all sinful activities, but if one repeatedly and intentionally commits sins while chanting the holy name, he is most condemned.

COMMENT

So, yes. Ajamila chanted the holy name offenselessly, not purely, but offenselessly. And so he was freed from all sinful reactions. He didn’t commit the offense of committing sin on the strength of chanting the holy name. He didn’t commit the offense of repeatedly and deliberately committing sin with the expectation that he can neutralize the reactions by chanting. But in a helpless condition he was calling for his son, “Narayana! Narayana! Narayana!” And that was without offense. 

PURPORT (continued)

These verses name the performers of various sinful deeds. In the Manu-saṁhitā the following names are given. A son begotten by a brāhmaṇa and born from the womb of a śūdra mother is called a pāraśava or niṣāda, a hunter accustomed to stealing. A son begotten by a niṣāda in the womb of a śūdra woman is called a pukkasa. A child begotten by a kṣatriya in the womb of the daughter of a śūdra is called an ugra. A child begotten by a śūdra in the womb of the daughter of a kṣatriya is called a kṣattā. A child begotten by a kṣatriya in the womb of a lower-class woman is called a śvāda, or dog-eater. All such offspring are considered extremely sinful, but the holy name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is so strong that all of them can be purified simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement offers everyone a chance to be purified, regardless of birth or family. As confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.4.18:

kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
ye ‘nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

“Kirātas, Hūṇas, Āndhras, Pulindas, Pulkaśas, Ābhīras, Śumbhas, Yavanas, members of the Khasa races, and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, for He is the supreme power. I beg to offer my obeisances unto Him.”

COMMENT

So that is the end of the translation of that verse. And then Srila Prabhupada says,

PURPORT (continued)

Even such sinful persons can certainly be purified if they chant the holy name of the Lord under the direction of a pure devotee.

Herein the sages encourage King Indra to kill Vṛtrāsura even at the risk of brahma-hatyā, the killing of a brāhmaṇa.

Giriraj Swami: So this story continues, but we have covered the section that was assigned to us and the verses immediately following the verses assigned to us, and this discussion, especially about the glories of the holy name and the potency of the holy name to free the performers of sinful activities from sinful reaction; very purifying and encouraging. And so, my dear devotees, we should take every opportunity to chant the holy names of the Lord. As Srila Prabhupada said in a talk in Los Angeles, “If you have time, chant Hare Krishna. Don’t speak nonsense, chant Hare Krishna.”

So I thank you for inviting me to discuss with you the nectarean pastimes of the Lord and the devotees from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and specifically the glories of the holy names. So now, if you have any questions or comments, any reflections, you can raise your hand – your physical hand or your virtual hand. I see there is a hand up here?

Host: Thank you very much, dear Giriraj Swami Maharaja, for your wonderful verses and commentary, both Srila Prabhupada’s and the commentary of yourself. A quick announcement, and then we will proceed to your questions.

Devotee: Dear devotees, those who are watching on Zoom, please feel free to raise your hand for your questions. Those who are watching on YouTube, please follow the link which is placed under the video. And please feel free to use this wonderful opportunity to express your gratitude towards our wonderful lecturer, disciple of Srila Prabhupada. You can learn how to do that by following the same link. Thank you, so much.

Viktor [Translated]: Hare Krishna. Please accept my obeisances, Maharaja. Thank you for a wonderful lecture. My question is: Has Indra committed the seventh offense of the holy name by killing Vṛtrāsura? This is my first question, and the second: Why has he chosen the path of austerities instead of chanting the holy name. Why does he prefer the austerities and penances instead of chanting?

Giriraj Swami: In answer to the first question, no, he did not commit the seventh offense of committing sin on the strength of chanting. He was guided to kill Vṛtrāsura under higher authorities. But he did not expect that he will get free from the sinful reactions by chanting. He didn’t want to kill Vṛtrāsura. But the great sages and demigods assured him that they would perform an aśvamedha-yajña that would free him from the sinful reactions. And that leads into the answer to your second question. That it was not his idea to perform the aśvamedha-yajña when he could have become relieved of the sinful reactions by chanting. But again, he was going along with the direction of the great sages and demigods.

Viktor: Thank you.

Gulzat: Hare Krishna, guru Maharaja. Please accept my obeisances, dear devotees. Indra was a great devotee, isn’t he? And I guess he knew very well that Vṛtrāsura was a pure devotee, as well, and it was the will of God that Indra had to kill Vṛtrāsura. Was that the will of God, that Indra had to kill?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, it was. The whole sequence of events was the will of God. And Vṛtrāsura got the greatest mercy, because after being killed by Indra, he went back home, back to Godhead. So there are many lessons that we can learn from this pastime, which definitely was arranged by the will of the Lord.

Mangalānanda Prabhu: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Thank you for the lecture. Ajamila, he was chanting the primary names of the Lord according to Harināma-cintāmaṇi, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Narayana is the primary name, isn’t it?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, there are many primary names, and Narayana is one of them.

Mangalānanda Prabhu: Thank you.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, just to clarify, there are indirect names such as, Almighty. But Narayana and Krishna are direct names.

Sunīl: Hare Krishna, daṇḍavat praṇāma. Maharaja. I am Sunīl Giridhār. Actually, it is my daughter’s account. I am Sunīl Giridhār from Panipat, Haryana. Please accept my humble obeisances unto your lotus feet. I am feeling blessed to attend your class first time. Maharaja, my clarification is regarding Vṛtrāsura. Was he having a previous birth background, because he was devotee, and he took birth in demon’s family. My clarification kindly, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. There is a history. I will give you a summary of the history. So there was a great devotee named Citraketu. This is described earlier in the First Chapter of the Sixth Canto. So Citraketu, who had no sons, got an opportunity to meet the great sage Aṅgirā. And when Aṅgirā inquired from the king about his welfare, the king expressed his moroseness. And therefore, by the grace of the great sage, the king’s first wife gave birth to a son who was the cause of both happiness and lamentation. Upon the birth of his son, the king and all the residents of the palace were very happy. The co-wives of Kṛtyadyuti, the mother, however, were envious, and later they administered poison to the child. Citraketu was overwhelmed by shock at his son’s death. Then Narada Muni and Aṅgirā went to see him. It is a bit of a long story. So, eventually, King Citraketu, being a great devotee, had darshan of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and spoke with Him:

SB 6.17—Summary Excerpt

King Citraketu enjoyed life in an airplane with the women of the Vidyādhara planet. Engaging in the congregational chanting of the glories of the Lord, he began flying his plane and traveling in outer space. One day, while traveling like this, he wandered into the bowers of Sumeru Mountain, where he came upon Lord Śiva embracing Pārvatī surrounded by an assembly of Siddhas, Cāraṇas and great sages. Seeing Lord Śiva in that situation, Citraketu laughed very loudly. But Pārvatī became very angry at him and cursed him. Because of this curse, Citraketu later appeared as the demon Vṛtrāsura.

Citraketu, however, was not at all afraid of Pārvatī’s curse. And thus he spoke as follows, “Everyone in human society enjoys happiness and distress according to his past deeds. And in this way, travels in the material world. Therefore, no one is responsible for his happiness and distress. One is controlled by the influence of material nature in the material world. Yet one thinks himself the doer of everything. The material external energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is in charge of the material world. The Lord helps the world by creating situations for the living entities within it.”

When Citraketu spoke in this way, all the members in the Great Assembly in which Lord Śiva and Pārvatī were present were astonished. Then, Lord Śiva began speaking about the devotees of the Lord. “A devotee is neutral in all conditions of life, whether in the heavenly planets or hellish planets; whether liberated from the material world or conditioned by it; whether blessed with happiness or distress. These are all merely dualities created by the external energy. Being influenced by the external energy, the living entity accepts a gross and subtle material body. And in this illusory position, he apparently suffers miseries, although everyone is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord.”

COMMENT

So here, Srila Prabhupada is paraphrasing a very important verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam spoken by Lord Shiva to Parvati, there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.17.28.

TEXT 28

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ

TRANSLATION

Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation, and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested only in the service of the Lord. 

COMMENT

And in this exchange between Lord Shiva and Parvati, Lord Shiva could understand that King Citraketu was not really being offensive, but he was just surprised to see Lord Shiva embracing Parvati in such an assembly. But Parvati took it in a bad way, became angry at him and cursed him. And thus the great devotee, Citraketu, later appeared as the demon Vṛtrāsura. It is quite a history.

Sunīl: Thank you, Maharaja, for taking so much of time. Thank you so much.

Giriraj Swami: Jaya.

Kāmadhara Priyā: Hare Krishna. Thank you so much for your explanations of such wonderful discussions and for such a lesson for us, because you read Srila Prabhupada’s purports so attentively and so thoughtfully, and this is extremely valuable as an example and as an experience to do it. So in this verse which you quoted, it is said that a devotee doesn’t care whether he goes to hell or to heaven, and he doesn’t care about rectifying the sins, actually, as far as I understood. And what about us, beginning devotees, neophytes, if a devotee occasionally commits some sin, or if he commits some sin because he just couldn’t control his senses, should he come to the holy name for atonement, or should he simply continue his practice and just be ready to take the reactions to this sin?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. If the devotee by chance commits some sin, he should continue with the process of devotional service. He need not perform any special atonement. But the process of chanting the holy names and engaging in devotional service themselves are powerful enough to free the devotee from sinful reactions and reinstate him in his proper position in devotional service. It is stated at the end of the Ninth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā (9.30),

api cet su-durācāro
bhajate mām ananya-bhāk
sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ
samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

That even if one is engaged in the most abominable activity, if he is properly situated in devotional service, he is still to be considered saintly. Or as Srila Prabhupada paraphrased that point, or illustrated that principle – And I am giving this example, keeping in mind that today is the Appearance Day of Srī Vakreśvara Pandita and our dear godbrother, Brahmananda Prabhu, left this world on the Appearance Day of Srī Vakreśvara Pandita. So coming back to this point:

api cet su-durācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

Srila Prabhupada said, even if you see Brahmananda on the street smoking a cigarette, still you should know that he is a great saint. Of course, we should not deliberately commit sin on the strength of chanting with the idea that we will neutralize the effects by chanting. That is a great offense. But if one, by chance, by force of bad habit or bad association, one does by chance commit a sin, he can take shelter of the holy name and be free from the reaction.

Kāmadhara Priyā: Thank you very much.

Prema Loka: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Daṇḍavat praṇāma. Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for a wonderful class, Maharaja. And I don’t have any questions. I want to express my gratitude. I am in India. Today is Father’s Day for us, here. So I wish you a very happy Father’s Day for being our spiritual father. I am so grateful to you for your association and shelter, Maharaja. Thank you, Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. That is very sweet, and I am glad to see you face-to-face on this occasion. Hare Krishna.

Host: We have two questions on YouTube, if you may, Maharaja?

Giriraj Swami: Alright.

Acyuta Baladeva Prabhu: I have a very practical question. How can I know that I am chanting the holy names on level of nāma-ābhāsa or on the level of śuddha-nāma? How do I know?

Giriraj Swami: If you are chanting śuddha-nāma, you would know it, because you would realize that the holy name of Krishna and Krishna Himself are identical. So, it is more likely, I don’t know for sure, but it seems more likely that you are chanting nāma-ābhāsa, which is also very exalted. And in due course you may chant śuddha-nāma.

Translator: And how does he know that he is chanting nāma-ābhāsa? He is asking.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, as opposed to nāma-aparādha?

Translator: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: Oh. Well, I would answer in a more positive way. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that if one chants attentively, then all the other offenses will be destroyed. And if one chants inattentively, then all the other offenses will flourish. So the main thing is to chant attentively. And Srila Prabhupada has explained that the consistent effort to bring the mind back to the holy name when the mind wanders constitutes the clearing stage, or nāma-ābhāsa. So, we should make that effort. Otherwise, if we just let the mind wander everywhere in the universe or beyond while we are chanting, that would be offensive: being inattentive while chanting.

Sundar Govinda Prabhu: What should I do if while chanting the holy name my mind is absorbed into material desires? When will they be finished? They seem to be endless.

Giriraj Swami: Well, as I mentioned. . .Alright, so it is not an offense to have material desires. It is an anartha, but it is not an offense. The offense is to maintain material desires while chanting the holy name, even after understanding so many instructions in the matter. So you should not hold on to your material desires and attachments. You should let them go. We are chanting to become purified, so we should let them go. And the two go together: To not have complete faith in the chanting of Hare Krishna, and to maintain material attachments even after understanding so many instructions on the matter. They go together, because if you had full faith in the holy names, you would realize that the holy name can fulfill all your desires, and you wouldn’t be attached to material things thinking that they will fulfill your desires.

Host: Maharaja, I want to ask whether you have more time to spend with us. Is it too late?

Giriraj Swami: I do.

Host: Then, three last questions, if it is okay?

Giriraj Swami: All right.

Devotee: Thank you very much for these answers about the holy name. And my question is actually connected with these answers, because too often our practice of Krishna consciousness becomes totally unconscious. And then after some time, you find yourself thinking about anything else, even in japa. And then, you come back. And then, for some time it seems that you are more conscious, but then again you fall unconscious. And too often it seems like it is hopeless and better even I don’t make these mistakes; don’t make these attempts and just continue as it is. So, how to keep this determination to constantly fight for our Krishna consciousness to be conscious in our practice?

Giriraj Swami: As Srila Prabhupada said, spiritual life is difficult, but material life is impossible. So even though it is difficult to make the effort to chant with attention, we have to do it because the alternative, which is to give in to maya, is no alternative. And devotees have written very good books about japa. His Grace Bhurijana dasa has written a book called Japa. The name of the book is Japa, and it is very instructive. And His Holiness Sacinandana Swami has written several books about chanting the holy names. So we can get guidance and strength from reading those books. And as Bhurijana Prabhu once said, that to chant with attention is a battle. But that battle must be fought.

Devotee: Thank you so much.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, getting up early in the morning; chanting in front of Tulasi-devi; chanting in front of Deities; chanting with other sincere chanters; they all can help.

Devotee: Thank you very much. Actually, for the last about half a year I am reading this book, Japa, and I read it again and again. And I sent the quotes to devotees from this book and they are really inspired by it.

Śivasvam Mataji: Hare Krishna, guru Maharaja. Daṇḍavat praṇāma and please accept my heartful humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to you. I lost my father about sixteen years back, but I feel very fortunate that I see my father in you, and you are even more guiding me with the spiritual journey. And it is even a bigger blessing for me to get your darshan on Father’s Day. A very, very happy Father’s Day to you.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you.

Śivasvam Mataji: Guru Maharaja, I had a question. I have written it down so that I don’t too get confused explaining to you. All the exalted devotees you just mentioned in this session have a history of committing offenses, then becoming demons, and then again, chanting out to Krishna and then going back; getting better; getting promoted to the deva level. Devotees like Indra deva will have to come to this earth and go through the offenseless life to reach Radha-Krishna’s lotus feet. Is it possible to have, in this world, an offenseless life? How can we ordinary people pray to Radha-Krishna to accept us at their lotus feet if everything happens only with Krishna’s will? Then, all our actions will have this will good or bad. So even by being super attentive we do unintentional offenses, which will take us back to the stage where we have started, like being offensive. What do we do? The holy name taken by Ajamila took him to Krishna. How can we go back to Godhead? It is a vicious cycle.

Giriraj Swami: You can go back to Godhead by chanting the holy name. Although Ajamila. . .well, he chanted offenselessly when he was calling for his son, Narayana, and he was saved from death; he was saved from being taken to Yamaraja. But, he was still not perfect, so he left home, and he went to Haridvara, which is a holy place, and he engaged in sadhana in Haridvara, and he perfected his chanting. The same Vishnudutas whom he had seen earlier came to take him back home, back to Godhead. So yes, there is every hope. Don’t make it too complicated.

Śivasvam Mataji: Please keep me at your lotus feet, guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances. Thank you so much. Hare Krishna.

Host: And the last question for today, Gulzat Mataji.

Gulzat Mataji: Hare Krishna, Maharaja. Thank you for such wonderful and practical topics that you are raising. My question is about the attentive japa. If while chanting my japa, I pray to Srila Prabhupada and beg him about his mercy; mercy that would allow me to chant my japa attentively. Would it be a distraction? Is it considered to be a distraction?

Giriraj Swami: Well, chanting in a prayerful mood is recommended. But if you find that your praying to Srila Prabhupada in that wonderful way is distracting you from hearing, then you could take some time out from the chanting, for a few moments, to offer your prayer, and then go back to your chanting.

Host: Many, many thanks to you, dear Maharaja, for today’s kathā. Srila Prabhupada used to say that a civilized human being should be born twice, dvija, and we were fortunate enough to be born in Srila Prabhupada’s family. And Srila Prabhupada, for most of us, is considered to be like a granddad, while you, his disciples, are our fathers; our dads. And on this auspicious day of the Day of Fathers, we would like to ask – to beg – for your blessings. Please bless us for us to be to be worthy sons and daughters and followers of yourselves, Srila Prabhupada’s sons and daughters, so that we could follow your footsteps and continue your mission.

Giriraj Swami: That is very nice; very sweet; very beautiful.

Devotee: Jaya.

Giriraj Swami: And I will pray for you, and support you and encourage you in any way possible.

Devotee: Thank you so much.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Grantharāja Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

Giriraj Maharaja, ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande, Hari Haribol!

So if we are ending now, and it seems like we are ending now, I suggest we conclude with Vaishnava praṇāma.

vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

Ananta koṭi vaiṣṇava-vṛnda, ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

gaura-bhakta-vṛnda.

Host: Thank you. Have a wonderful day, dear devotees. Good night to some of you, maybe. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.