Sri Krishna Janmashtami Celebrations—Part 03

Giriraj Swami: Well, listening to Satyadeva Prabhu’s story of how he first met Srila Prabhupada. I will tell mine. I was a student at Brandies University, Boston. Well, going back to high school, I had the idea that I wanted to find perfect happiness. I understood that I could not achieve perfect happiness materially but only spiritually. So then I read books, spiritual books, and I understood that for me to progress spiritually, I needed a guru. Then my quest became to find my guru, and I met many gurus, or so-called gurus, and I was not satisfied with any of them. And finally, I almost became hopeless. Also, I had a vague mental impression of what my guru looked like, and he didn’t have hair. And all the other gurus that I was encountering, they all had long hair, so that made me even more hopeless. So one night, I had some friends over for dinner. I was already a vegetarian and living off-campus near the university, and we were planning to go to the movies. And I had seen on the campus a poster, “Swami Bhaktivedanta, Schwartz Auditorium, 7:00 P.M.” So I thought I would like to go to that. And my friend said, “Well, we are going to go to the movies.” I said, “Well, we can go to the late show. We do this first.” And one of them, a lady friend, said, “Why can’t you be like a normal person? Why do you always have to be going after these swamis and gurus?” And she raised her voice, and I raised my voice, “Okay, this will be the last one I ever go to.”

So we got to the auditorium and because of all the discussion, we reached late. And Srila Prabhupada was on the stage, and the devotees were doing kirtan. Satsvarupa was leading the kirtan, and the Schwartz Auditorium had brick walls. It was quite tasteful, and the sound was reverberating off the walls. And one after another, the students were getting out of their seats and climbing up on the stage and joining the chanting and dancing with the devotees, which I also felt like doing. But I thought that would definitely be too much for my friends, so I just stood up in my place, and I was clapping and swaying. And then after the kirtan, Satsvarupa announced that if anyone was going to Boston or Cambridge, the devotees need a lift. They didn’t have any cars then; they didn’t own any motor vehicles. And I was going to Harvard Square to see the late show. So yes, so they said, “Meet us in the lobby.” So I went to the lobby, and the first devotee I met was Varadraj Prabhu. He is known for many things, but he is also the father of Gauravani, the singer. And he was so high on Krishna consciousness. I didn’t tell you about all the other places I went, but every other place, the students were pretty morose. But he was like, and he was saying, when Krishna showed Arjuna His universal form, and Arjuna was shivering. And then he asked to see His four-arm form, and then His original form as Krishna. He was just going on and on, and it was a stark contrast to the students of all the other gurus or so-called gurus I had met.

So I said, “I am driving to Harvard Square, and I can give the devotees a ride.” And at the time, I had a red Rambler station wagon. It was my father’s high school graduation present to me, so it could fit in quite a few people. And I had so many questions. So in the front was a devotee, a lady named Jahnava, who I believe is in Alachua now. And so I was asking her all these questions, and she was giving the most perfect answers. I asked about Yoga Nanda because I had read Autobiography of a yogi. And she said, “Oh, he is just a shopkeeper. Whatever you want, he keeps him stock. You want yoga, he will give you yoga. Whatever you want, he keeps him stock. And if you ever visit his ashram in California, he has a monument for Mahatma Gandhi as a worker for world peace. Mahatma Gandhi was not a worker for world peace. He wanted to drive the British out of India. He doesn’t even know who Mahatma Gandhi is.”

And then I mentioned, well, there were a lot, but I mentioned Zen Buddhism. I had gone to meet Philip Kaplo in Rochester, New York, who wrote a book called The Three Pillars of Zen. And she gave an explanation of Zen that was better than any explanation I ever heard in the tradition, and it went beyond it. So she said, “It is like watching a movie. You see these images on the screen, but they are not really real. And if you draw your attention back, you will see there is a beam of light. And if you follow that beam of light back, you will find it comes to a point.” I thought, Wow, this is like the best explanation of Zen I have ever heard. And then she said, “But beyond that light bulb, there is a machine, and behind the machine, there is a person.” And I thought, Wow, this is like a better explanation of them than I have ever heard, and it goes beyond that. So I thought she is speaking with so much authority, but she is just a young girl. So I knew it couldn’t be her authority; it must be coming from her teacher. So we got to Harvard Square, and I realized I didn’t know how to get in touch with the devotees. So I jumped out, stopped the car, jumped out, and ran to catch up with the devotees. And the first devotee I caught up to was Patita Pavan, who I think lives in the area. His wife, Satya, is very involved with the Berkeley temple. So Patita Pavan, and he said, “See, all these people, they are just like sleepwalkers. They don’t know who they are, where they are going, or what they are doing.” I was fascinated by everything that all the devotees were saying. Then suddenly, I heard a large honking of horns, and I realized that the whole traffic at Harvard Square was backed up because I had left my car there. So I said, “I want to meet the Swami. quick, give me his address.”

So then the next night, I went to the temple, and Srila Prabhupada was speaking. And he quoted this verse, that out of many thousands of men, one will seek perfection. And I thought, “That is me. He is talking about me.” And then eventually, he asked for questions, and I was burning to ask my question. And I said, “There are so many swamis and gurus, and each one recommends a different process of self-realization, and each one says his is the best. So how do I know which is actually the best?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, it was a brilliant answer, “What is your goal?” Because I was saying, “What is the best means?” But that depends on the goal. He said, “What is your goal? Do you want to become God, or do you want to serve God? If you want to become God, that means you are not God now, and how can ‘not God’ become God?” They said, “Krishna is God. He is substantially God. He doesn’t have to become God by yoga or meditation.” And he said, “God is in your heart. You can become godly, but you cannot become God. And if you sow the seed of service to God and water it with chanting, God will provide all the favorable conditions to make it grow. But if you want to become God, why should God help the competition?” So he said, “You can become godly, but you cannot become God. So what do you think? Do you want to serve God, or do you want to become God?”

At that time, I had the distinct impression that Srila Prabhupada was seeing right through me, through the walls of the temple, down the roads to my apartment, inside my apartment, to the wall in my bathroom where I had inscribed in beautiful colored lettering, in my own hand, “You Are God,” in case I forgot. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “So, what do you think? You want to serve God, or you want to become God?” So, by then I knew I couldn’t become God, so I started to say, “I want to serve God.” But I also knew I couldn’t cheat Srila Prabhupada so I said, “But actually, I wanted to become God.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes.” So, my search was over. I had found my perfect master, and I bowed down my head and surrendered, and I kept it down for a very long time. And part of the reason was surrender and part of the reason was I didn’t want to face the other people in the room because I thought they would all be glaring at me, “He wanted to become God.” So, I kept my head down for quite a while, and then I heard sounds that indicated that food was being served. So, I thought, Well, maybe now is a good time to come up. And nobody was glaring at me; everyone was smiling and happy. And I saw this plate with so many varieties. And I know by Vaisesika doesn’t want us to talk about food at this stage, but briefly, very briefly, I think the first thing I had was a cauliflower pakora, and it was just such an explosion of taste in my mouth, I had never had anything like it before. And there are many varieties you don’t need to discuss, but I had never had food like that before. And then, they brought out a big plate for Srila Prabhupada, and he said, “I am not God. I cannot eat so much.” So, everything was perfect. The philosophy was perfect, the chanting was perfect, the food was perfect. Everything was perfect, and I knew I had met my perfect master.

But then, after maybe two weeks, Srila Prabhupada left. He was going to leave. I didn’t realize that he wouldn’t always be there in Boston. So, I thought everything is perfect, but maybe this is the one lack, that the spiritual master has to leave. So, everyone was going to the airport to see him off. And at that time, one of my confidants was a lady devotee named Arundati, and so the devotees were crying. So, I asked why they were crying, and she said that, on the absolute platform, meeting and separation are the same, which sounded good in theory. It sounded good, and the devotees stayed, and Srila Prabhupada had said that they should watch the airplane until it disappears in the sky, just like the gopīs watched the chariot when Krishna was being taken to Mathura until it disappeared in the distance. So, we all watched until it disappeared, but still, I had that doubt that maybe that is the one defect, that the spiritual master has to leave. But then, one day, we were doing hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, and I just felt Srila Prabhupada’s presence very strongly. It may have been because not maybe two months after that, I was initiated by mail, and some devotees said it might have been that Srila Prabhupada was initiating me at that time. But I really felt his presence. Then I thought, Yes, everything about Krishna consciousness is perfect. And it is; the philosophy, the guru, the prasāda, the chanting. Yes, everything.

So, we are so fortunate to have come in touch with Srila Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness, and we should really take advantage of our good fortune, and chant and be happy.

Hare Krishna. [Applause]

Vaisesika Prabhu: We take some time for some questions. You can ask a question if you are so inclined because the word “question” comes from the word “quest,” which means, in the etymological dictionary, a search for the Holy Grail. And when you ask a question, you can open the sky and find out what is on the other side. You can also find out what is in somebody’s heart, which can be very useful if the person has some treasures there. So, if you want to try, it is one of the hardest things to do is ask questions, but if you would like to try, you can. There are uppermates ready to go.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. One question I have been having recently is about the concept of practicality with imbibing the instructions of shastra. And I have noticed that sometimes there are certain things that in shastra, we see that we should do that. So, at least I have seen that it is difficult to immediately act upon. And this is along the lines of what you mentioned in the beginning of the lecture, where Vasudeva had to tell Kamsa and kind of spin a story so that he would be able to preserve not only his but his wife’s life as well. So, the concept of preserving the body and practicality is there on one side, but then the other side, there is the injections of shastra. So, how do we meld them together and get something that we feel comfortable going forward with, when continuing in our devotional service?

Giriraj Swami: Before, I thought maybe by luck you might ask her about what I said, but I actually wanted to tell another story about Srila Prabhupada from that period. I can do that?

Vaisesika Prabhu: Sure, yes, of course.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, we will get back to your question, but I wanted to tell another story from that period with Srila Prabhupada Boston.

So, after I bowed my head and accepted him as my spiritual master, I would come every day. And, as I mentioned earlier, the devotees didn’t have any motor vehicles, and I did. So I would come, and I would drive the devotees to and Srila Prabhupada to the programs. So, the schedule was Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, Srila Prabhupada would speak in the temple, and Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, he would speak outside, usually at a university, at least on Tuesday and Thursday. And then Sunday was the Sunday love feast. So, one day, Srila Prabhupada had a program at the Harvard Divinity School, and I drove him. Srila Prabhupada spoke, and then afterwards, he asked for questions. So many of these bright students, they raised their hands. And the first one said, “You speak about how all problems can be solved by chanting Hare Krishna. But we see in the case of Russia, there were people who were chanting God’s name, but things really happened when there was a revolution.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Well, since the revolution, are the people in Russia happy?” And the student said, “No.” Srila Prabhupada said, “Then what was the use of that revolution?” So then another student asked, “You say we should keep repeating this Hare Krishna, but couldn’t you get the same result by repeating anything, like one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, you can try counting, and when you get tired of counting, you can try chanting.” So then one of the students asked him if he had realized God. And Srila Prabhupada replied, “If I tell you falsely that I have, will you believe me?” And the student said, “No.” Then Srila Prabhupada said, “Then what was the use of asking such a question?” So, one by one, he disposed of all these questions of the students.

So, after the lecture, I was loitering or just mingling around the crowd and listening to the students how they were appreciating Srila Prabhupada. And suddenly, Jadurani came to me, affectionately imitating Srila Prabhupada’s voice, saying, “So, where is the driver?” So I realized, Oh my God, I have to drive Srila Prabhupada. So, I went to the car. He and I were in the front seat, and devotees piled in. I was able to find the place during the daylight, but during the night, I had a vague idea of how to go, but I wasn’t really sure. I tried to find my way back, but I couldn’t. So I asked the other devotees, “Does anyone know the way back?” And no one knew. Srila Prabhupada turned to me and said, “Is not the driver supposed to know the way?” So I thought, I didn’t know I was the driver, and I had duties. Just trying to help out. So anyway, eventually we did make it back to the temple. So I jumped out and opened the door for Srila Prabhupada, and I said, “Srila Prabhupada, I am sorry, I got us lost.” And very affectionately and kindly, Srila Prabhupada smiled and he said, “That is alright.” And I had seen how he had dismantled all these brilliant students at Harvard. He could have dismantled me, but he didn’t. He chose not to, and I realized that, yes, not only was he brilliant, but he was also very kind and compassionate. And that reinforced—I was already convinced—but it reinforced my conviction that Srila Prabhupada was my perfect master.

So, yes. So now, would you like to answer this young man’s question?

Vaisesika Prabhu: Can you give the essence of it in one sentence?

Devotee: How do we understand practicality and injunctions of shastra side by side while leading our life?

Vaisesika Prabhu: Can you give me an example?

Devotee: Say for example, in Bhagavad-gītā it says that Krishna says that we have to eat food that the food should not be outside for more than three hours. But now we keep the food in the fridge. So, that is an extension of this three hours, right? So similarly, there is many different things like that we do that are extended due to our normal way of life. And certain things are just like nitpicky rules, but other things seem like there is something that we can’t follow, and we should be able to follow, but it is very hard to go and do that. So in that moment, how should one react? Should one just try and focus everything on doing that only? But if that detracts from some other part of their life.

Vaisesika Prabhu: If that was one sentence, it had a lot of semicolons. [Laughter] So, yes, that is such an important question. O Prabhu, thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: Can you rephrase it in one sentence?

Vaisesika Prabhu: How do we observe the teachings of the various scriptures and still live our life in a sane way?

Giriraj Swami: And what was the example?

Vaisesika Prabhu: Food cooked three hours prior is not supposed to be taken, and they keep food in the refrigerator like everybody else. So what do you do about that?

Giriraj Swami: Okay, I get the question. Now, for the answer.

Vaisesika Prabhu: The Vedas and all their teachings are really big projects. They are actually meant to accommodate many different kinds of people. As many people as there are, that is how many different entities there are in the world. Everyone has different circumstances. However, there are categories because of the three modes of material nature. People are generally affected by either goodness, passion, or ignorance. Or rather, I should say, they have acquired goodness, passion, or ignorance. So, those people require individual instructions. And over time, the collections of these various teachings, which are meant to accommodate various types of people, end up in an aggregate. So one has to have an attorney to go through it, and that is what a spiritual master is. I heard Prabhupada say it. He said a spiritual master is like an attorney. You don’t try to try a case. That sounded redundant. You don’t try a case yourself, but you go to an expert who already knows the law books. So in those cases, actually looking for the essence of what you are trying to do and where you are trying to go, what is your ultimate goal, is really important. You will find that great teachers who come along, like acharyas, they essentialize the teaching at a particular time and place because of what you said. There is too much for everyone to handle. Acharyas are acharyas because they know how to teach, and they take the essence of the teachings, and they say, “For this time, for you, practice in this way, and you will be successful.”

I will give you an example. When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was teaching Sanatana Gosvami, he gave him a lot of details about Krishna and the philosophy and the practice of devotional service. For instance, he mentioned sixty-four items of devotional service to practice. But then he said, out of those sixty-four, there is five that are most important. He said, of those five, these five are so powerful, he said that even if you have just a little connection with them, even if you don’t have faith in them, but you are not offensive, and you stay connected with these five, he said then you will be successful. And after that, he essentialized it even more, and he said, out of these five, there is one—chanting Hare Krishna—that will subsume all the other items because everything is contained within it. You always win with basics in any discipline, whether it is music or athletics. And in spiritual life, it is the same thing. You have to find out what is most important. And to do that, find somebody who is a teacher. Teachers are essence-seekers. They are looking to make advancement, not just to mete out various rules and regulations so that people have to stumble over them. And if you find that, then you can ascertain what is best for yourself.

Actually, everyone needs some individual guidance. Devotional service is a culture of guidance. It is the first teaching in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that you should have many guides from different angles who can tell you, “Okay, it is okay to eat food; it is been there for more than three hours. It is not the main thing.” And as Stephen Covey wrote in his book, “The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.” And over and over again, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His teachers keep coming back to what is most important. And that is to find a way that you can stay healthy,

kāmasya nendriya-prītir
lābho jīveta yāvatā
jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā
nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ

Live a healthy life; be very balanced, as balanced as you can, but use your vitality to practice Krishna consciousness. The little details, transgressions will be overlooked. They are not that important if you have what is most important in mind and in practice. Om tat sat.

Yes, Prabhu, we have a microphone for you. It will be to you in seven seconds or less, or your money back from Janmashtami. Better be fast, though. Okay, thank you.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. I have two questions. So should we go one by one, or I ask two of them, and then you answer them at once?

Giriraj Swami: Both, both at a time, yes.

Devotee: So first question is that how do we know or how do we measure that we are advancing in Krishna consciousness? How to know if we are advancing or degrading in Krishna consciousness on our path? And the second question, a follow-up question to that, it is said that, so we are following method rules and regulations given by acharya, Prabhupada and previous acharyas. And like many times, we hear that Prabhupada said, “Chant sixteen rounds and follow four regulative principles and keep serving; I will take you back home, back to Godhead, at the end of this lifetime.” So, is it that before going back to Godhead, we have the nine stages of devotional service, starting from sraddha to prema? So, will we be seeing Krishna face to face, or will we be experiencing kṛṣṇa-prema, bhava, kṛṣṇa-prema, before we know that we are eligible, we are going to go back home, back to Godhead? Or irrespective of wherever we are in those nine stages, whichever stage we are at the end of this lifetime, because we have acharya’s mercy, we will be awarded back to Godhead. So, these are my two questions Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: You answer the first, I will answer the second. What was the first question?

Devotee: How do we know that? How to measure, in other words, how do we know that we are advancing or degrading in Krishna consciousness? How do we know how much we are advancing?

Vaisesika Prabhu: Maharaja asked me to answer the first question. How do when you are hungry?

Devotee: You feel hungry; you feel like eating.

Vaisesika Prabhu: How do when you are full?

Devotee: You are satisfied, you got nourished.

Vaisesika Prabhu: It is the same in spiritual life. It is exactly like eating. You feel a spiritual hunger, then you inquire and you look for it. And when you chant Hare Krishna, when you are around advanced devotees, then you feel full and you feel naturally satisfied. And nobody has to give you a certificate; you don’t have to fly anybody in. You just know for yourself that you are full, you feel satisfied. And that, actually, I am not being glib, it is a verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I quoted it earlier this morning.

bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir
anyatra caiṣa trika eka-kālaḥ
prapadyamānasya yathāśnataḥ syus
tuṣṭiḥ puṣṭiḥ kṣud-apāyo ‘nu-ghāsam

So, this verse says that when you eat food, you get three effects: one is you feel nourished, satisfied, and your hunger goes away with every morsel that you eat. And it is compared to practicing devotional service, that it is natural that you will feel a sense of devotion in your heart when you are around those who are devoted and you are practicing devotional service. And also, you will start to see Krishna’s hand within everything, and you will start to see Him everywhere, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo. And perhaps most importantly, because those things you can say, “Yes, I see God everywhere and I feel devotion in my heart,” but the third one you can’t fake. And that is that you become detached from all things that aren’t related to Krishna. And anyone can look in on you at any time and notice, or you can look in on yourself and notice whether you are still attracted to and attached to things that aren’t related to Krishna. That one is compared to when you are full and someone says, “Do you want some more?” and you say, “No, thank you, I am full.” How did you know? “I just know.” And detachment from things, like bad habits or things that don’t do you any good, when you notice those go away, that is also mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

There is a noticeable way in which the pushing that normally is there, that comes from raja-guṇa, “Take more, you have to have something else to make you happy,” it dissipates and then for yourself at that time, you can see it directly. Om tat sat.

Giriraj Swami: So, the second question was that Srila Prabhupada said if we just chant sixteen rounds and follow the regulated principles and do service, although the way I heard it, it was very similar: If you just chant sixteen rounds, follow the regulated principles, and do your best to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world, you will go back home, back to Godhead. So, does that mean that we pass through all the different stages from sraddha to prema?

Well, I will cite one incident. Srila Prabhupada giving the talk and he said that, “To go back to Godhead, you have to be 100 percent free from material desires.” And all the devotees looked very forlorn. So then he said, “90 percent free,” and they still looked miserable. And he said, “80 percent free,” it still looked uncomfortable. So then, finally, he said, “70 seventy, but that is all.” Then afterwards, one of the disciples asked him, “First you said we have to be a 100 percent free of material desires to go back to Godhead, and now you are saying only 70 percent How will that work?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “I have the key to the back door.” So, yes, I have faith in Srila Prabhupada’s words. And it is also like Krishna says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. “O son of Kunti, please declare boldly that my devotee will never perish.” So the question may be asked, why doesn’t Krishna make the declaration Himself? Why does he tell Arjuna? And the answer is that although Krishna is very truthful, but in exceptional cases, He may break His promise. But if his devotee makes a promise, Krishna will never allow His devotee’s promise to be broken.

So, I am relating this to Srila Prabhupada ‘s promise that if we just, chant sixteen rounds, follow the regulative principles, and try our best to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world, he will take us back to Godhead, or we will go back to Godhead. And yes, I really wouldn’t say that we have to go through all those stages. Maybe at the last minute, we quickly go through them. but during the normal course of our devotional service, I would say that we do not have to. And there are accounts of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples who would appear to have gone back to Godhead, and they didn’t go through those advanced stages, but because of their sincere service, they got Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, and they even had some sense of what their identity was in the spiritual world. So yes, but if you can go through all those, well and good.

Vaisesika Prabhu: Would anybody out else like to ask a question? Or Satya Karuna Prabhu, would you like to add to anything that has been asked or answered already?

Satya Karuna Prabhu: Regarding the food prepared three hours before eating, that one, it seems to me that as long as you offer the food soon after you prepare it, then it is no longer affected by the modes of nature. So, Krishna says that those who are in the mode of ignorance like those foods that have been, cooked and prepared, they like things that are a little bit rotten and stuff. There are some kinds of foods that people actually like, kimchi and things like that, they are supposed to be good for you, that they let them ferment, but that is not really in the mode of goodness. But as far as the other question is concerned, I think Vaisesika answered it very perfectly. But it reminded me of something that I believe it is Visvanatha Cakravarti, might be Mādhurya-kādambinī, said that the devotees can run with their eyes closed. It is in the Bhāgavatam. Okay, running with their eyes closed and they won’t trip and fall. In other words, Krishna says that those who are devotees, they follow the scriptures, and those who are demons don’t care for the scriptures. And then Arjuna asks, “What about those who don’t follow the scriptures?” And he talks about the three modes and so forth.

But devotional service is very powerful. And we were having this discussion a little bit this morning because I had asked a similar question. And then Vaisesika already had something prepared. But devotional service is very powerful. There may be so many regulations and rules and different things, but Krishna will make a proper arrangement for a sincere devotee who is chanting His names, following the spiritual master. But one time, I was in a bookstore, and I thought, Let me see what the Manu-saṁhitā says. There was a little Penguin version. So I said, “Let me see what these smriti shastras say.” And that, and I opened it to a page just to see. And it said that you should not sleep when the sun opens his eyes. In other words, that you should be awake before sunrise. And I said, “If you are a devotee, you are automatically doing that.” And I think if we are really being good devotees, then automatically somehow or another, the arrangement is made that we may be following the right path. Devotees’ natures are described in Bhagavad-gītā, that they don’t want to, they don’t unnecessarily harm anyone, they act as a friend to everyone. All and those are important moral instructions that I think devotees naturally follow, and therefore, they usually don’t get in situations where they make moral transgressions.

Vaisesika Prabhu: I wanted to continue, just for a second, the point about the prasādam. Yes, may I?

Satya Karuna Prabhu: Yes, of course. I am your servant.

Vaisesika Prabhu: Iconic story in the Chaitanya-caritāmṛta. Just when Mahaprabhu went to Puri for the first time. When he saw Jagannatha Swami in the temple, he went to embrace the deity and he actually fainted on the way there. And then the temple commander came there, intending to drive him out, maybe even beat him with a stick, “Don’t do this in the temple.” However, Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya happened to be there and intervened. And then discerned that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was actually not faking it. And he took him back to his house. That is a long story, how Chaitanya Mahaprabhu met Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya, who was the dry logician. But he was also famous, still famous. You can look him up in Wikipedia. And he was converted by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, became a soft-hearted Vaishnava. So the proof of that was just after he had spent time with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu trying to. . . He was much his senior, and Mahaprabhu changed his heart, the heart of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya.

So the next day, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went to the temple of Jagannatha and got some mahā-prasāda, and He brought it to the house of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya. Bhattacharya was just getting up from bed because and he saw Chaitanya Mahaprabhu coming. So normally, in the smriti shastra, you don’t touch any food before you take a full bath; everything has to be in place. However, this time, he approached Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, offered his obeisance, and Mahaprabhu gave him the mahā-prasāda and immediately took it and he honored it. He ate it right there. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took this as proof that he had become liberated from the pedantic idea of just following the rules for the sake of following them without knowing them. And even Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya sang a verse at that time,

na deśa-niyamas tatra
na kāla-niyamas tathā
prāptam annaṁ drutaṁ śiṣṭair
bhoktavyaṁ harir abravīt

Which means that if mahā-prasāda is brought from a distant country, if it is old, stale, or dried up, if somebody gives it to you, you should still take it right away. So I really liked the Satya Karuna Prabhu’s answer. It was very helpful. But I just wanted to add that sweet pastime on because it was proof to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu that Sarvabhauma had transcended this limited idea of how to follow the shastra.

Satya Karuna Prabhu: You might know this from your personal experience. I have heard it is one of those ISKCON stories, but right here in San Francisco, that His Grace Jayananda Prabhu, at the Sunday feast, he would always be working and things like that, and then he would come and he would take food, prasādam that other people had thrown away. And some devotee went to Srila Prabhupada and said, “Can he do that? Is it right that he is eating the remnants of the guests at our thing?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “He can do it, but if you did it, you would get sick.”

Vaisesika Prabhu: Yes, would you like to ask a question? Yes, here comes the mic. Please pass a mic back.

Devotee: What are some original truths or beliefs that you have come across during your spiritual journey that have been very impactful? I am talking about very unique truths or beliefs. Maybe they could be something that you formulated yourself, something just from this whole experience of learning about Krishna, and it could be just other related things to spirituality or life. I just wanted to order some like golden nuggets, basically, of your life journey so far. Could be anything. And unique things, like original, even if people don’t agree with it, please share. And if you want, I can give the mic to someone else. I know this is kind of a very packed question, so you guys can like think about it while someone else talks.

Vaisesika Prabhu: I think everyone will have an answer, but Satya Karuna Prabhu, why don’t you go because you haven’t spoken that much? And he definitely has nuggets. She wants to know any nuggets.

Devotee: Yes, yes, no pressure though.

Vaisesika Prabhu: That is really impressed us in the practice of Krishna consciousness or the philosophy.

Satya Karuna Prabhu: Yes, I really appreciate your question. I guess I was very similar to Giriraj Maharaja. Just before I came to Krishna consciousness, I was very much influenced by the different yoga teachings and Zen and things. And I had a confusion. Most of the things that I was studying was saying that I was God, but I found that I was suffering, and I was struggling, and I found myself praying to God for help. So there was this contradiction. And at the same time, I thought, Well, everything is coming from God. There is one source. There is one higher power. So technically, I am God, or I am part of God. But I had all of this confusion. And when I met Srila Prabhupada and heard Lord Chaitanya’s teaching that explains how we are simultaneously one and different than the Supreme, and that ultimately, that is so that we can experience exchanges of love with God and with each other. And so there is this simultaneous, inconceivable, beyond the mind experience of being one and different from God. And that cleared away so much doubt and just I never again was confused or wondering if I was God or not.

And then Prabhupada gave us, gives a similar example that if you are God, then how is it possible that you could forget that you are God, and why do you need to forget you are God to become God? It just defies common sense. So, that was a major turning point for me. And to this day, I am inspired by Lord Chaitanya and His comprehensive spiritual teaching.

Devotee: When I first met some devotees, they came to my school when I was in eighth grade. And then we went to their temple in Coconut Grove in Florida. All of a sudden, I started meeting devotees, and they were praising the books. So I got Bhagavad-gītā, and I looked at the pictures. It was a big one with pictures and captions and stuff. I tried to read it, but I didn’t really get it at first. And then when I spent more time with devotees, I would go to the Sunday feast, and I was curious, and I would go to the temple and kind of argue with the devotees because I had this kind of atheistic, intellectual, I was a science student. But after continuing to read Bhagavad-gītā, and I remember I was reading on the on an airplane one time, when I was reading the Tenth Chapter, when Krishna was describing how of each category of thing, He was the greatest of the fishes, He was the shark, and of the immovable things, He was the Himalayas, and so forth. And then, somehow or another, it all came into focus, and it congealed, and it all started to make sense. After I took me some time of talking to devotees.

So I think that is something that I would encourage everybody to do is not just, you read the Bhagavad-gītā, and the First Chapter is full of all these long Sanskrit names, and then it is also seems impenetrable. But if you keep at it, and you keep chanting, and associating with devotees, then I experienced that thing came into sharp focus. And the pastimes of Krishna in the Kṛṣṇa book were so enchanting and, attracting to the mind. So something I would say is, don’t neglect Srila Prabhupada’s books.

Devotee: Do you mean that some additional enlightening information came through when you were able to put the pieces together, per se? Can you expand more on that that story?

Vaisesika Prabhu: It wasn’t just information. Like Srila Prabhupada describes, he says it is not exactly an intellectual process. It is described in the books that it is by serving devotees that one gets a taste for actually hearing about Krishna. And you get the mercy of Srila Prabhupada by serving him, by paying attention and trying to understand his books. But it is not just like you learned, these little formulas to recite. But actually, when I started reading Kṛṣṇa book, it was like I liked fantasies. I liked Tolkien, and I liked science fiction books and things. And so, I was reading it like that, that this is some folklore, mythology kind of thing. But then Prabhupada had put it together with philosophy. It wasn’t just stories, but it was explaining how He is the Supreme Person. And then, at some point, it was like, “Oh my God, this is real; this is the way. There really is a world where Krishna relates to His eternal associates in this pure loving way, and we can enter into that.” And so, it is not some information, some bits of information or formulas, but it is just that it becomes clear, but it does also make intellectual sense. So, I guess I would say it is also an intellectual process.

Krishna Himself says in Bhagavad-gītā that Arjuna can understand. There is a mysterious—it is a Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyam, it is confidential knowledge. Srila Prabhupada said it is an open secret because we are trying to tell everybody, but it is still a secret because if you don’t have devotion, Krishna says to Arjuna, “Because you are my friend, because you are my devotee.” In fact, in the Eighteenth Chapter, He says, “Don’t even try to explain it to someone who is not a devotee, who is not austere, who is not engaged in devotional service.” And it comes alive for you. So it really is. If you apply yourself to chanting and reading these books, you will have an experience which is convinced. Srila Prabhupada has started with nothing, and now there is this huge movement. And I am sure that it was my experience, and I think others will have the same experience.

Devotee: Can I just add something? It kind of goes back to Prabhu’s original question, how does one know that one is advancing in spiritual life? So, it is important to have the information, but then it is important to be able to apply it in your life and then experience a transformation, at a change in consciousness, or experience higher consciousness, ultimately Krishna consciousness. So, it is comparable to eating food. Before you eat, you are hungry, and you feel dissatisfied, and you feel weak. So, when we apply the teaching practically in our life, and then we actually let go or surrender to God, and that is much more of an internal process than just going through the external formalities, then we should experience real satisfaction and freedom from suffering, and a whole new experience of our self and our relationship with God and with others. And if we are actually going through that transformation, then we know what we are doing is working. And if we are not having that experience, we have the right to question it. And then, in that case, you might need to go to a teacher and say, “I am doing this, this, and that, but I am not having this experience. What is am I doing wrong, or why not?” So, it is an experience. It is not enough just to believe.

Devotee: The three things, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir, that it is compared that when you are eating, you experience the pleasure of eating nice tasting food, and you experience the nourishment, and then also your hunger is abated. So, those three things are compared to that you feel devotion, genuine blissful connection in love with Krishna, but you also have a clearing of all kinds of doubts. That you become full of knowledge, and then also, like Vaisesika was saying, you become detached from things that are not related to Krishna; anything else? Anayatra sesa.

Devotee: So, something Sachideva just said made me think of that, that experience is also experienced—everything becoming clear that once it was a little confusing, and then it becomes clear. So, if you keep associating with devotees and chanting, and apply yourself to reading the books, they become clear in a way that is mystical; I guess what I was trying to say. It is guhyataṁ, it is guhyaṁ, it is a confidential knowledge that is only available by the grace of the spiritual master. We have to change our hearts and make ourselves receptive to hear it like that. So, it is not exactly like learning astronomy or something.

Giriraj Swami: Whatever. I don’t want to comment on this.

Vaisesika Prabhu: Okay, let us chant a little more. May we, since we are all here together.