CC Madhya 9.178 – Lord Rama’s Eternal Consort—Sitadevi

Giriraj Swami: Today is Sita-navami, the appearance day of Srimati Sitadevi, the eternal consort of Lord Ramachandra. She appeared as the daughter of King Janaka, one of the twelve mahājanas, great authorities in Krishna consciousness, and thus one of her names is Janaki. In Valmiki’s Rāmāyaṇa, Sita is said to have been discovered in a furrow in a ploughed field believed to now be the city of Sitamarhi in the Mithila region of present-day Bihar, and for that reason she is regarded as a daughter of Bhoomi Devi, the goddess of earth.

To begin, we shall read from Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, Chapter Nine: “Lord Caitanya’s Travels to the Holy Places.”

TEXT 2

jaya jaya śrī-caitanya jaya nityānanda
jayādvaitacandra jaya gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

TRANSLATION

All glories to Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu! All glories to Lord Nityānanda Prabhu! All glories to Śrī Advaita Prabhu! And all glories to all the devotees of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu!

TEXT 178

dakṣiṇa-mathurā āilā kāmakoṣṭhī haite
tāhāṅ dekhā haila eka brāhmaṇa-sahite

TRANSLATION

When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu arrived at southern Mathurā from Kāmakoṣṭhī, He met a brāhmaṇa.

TEXT 179

The brāhmaṇa who met Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu invited the Lord to his home. This brāhmaṇa was a great devotee and an authority on Lord Śrī Rāmacandra. He was always detached from material activities.

TEXT 180

After bathing in the river Kṛtamālā, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to the brāhmaṇa’s house to take lunch, but He saw that the food was unprepared because the brāhmaṇa had not cooked it.

TEXT 181

Seeing this, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, “My dear sir, please tell Me why you have not cooked. It is already noon.”

TEXT 182

The brāhmaṇa replied, “My dear Lord, we are living in the forest. For the time being we cannot get all the ingredients for cooking.

TEXT 183

“When Lakṣmaṇa brings all the vegetables, fruits, and roots from the forest, Sītā will do the necessary cooking.”

TEXT 184

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very satisfied to hear about the brāhmaṇa’s method of worship. Finally the brāhmaṇa hastily made arrangements for cooking.

TEXT 185

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu took His lunch at about three o’clock, but the brāhmaṇa, being very sorrowful, fasted.

TEXT 186

While the brāhmaṇa was fasting, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, “Why are you fasting? Why are you so unhappy? Why are you so worried?”

TEXT 187

The brāhmaṇa replied, “I have no reason to live. I shall give up my life by entering either fire or water.

TEXT 188

“My dear Sir, mother Sītā is the mother of the universe and the supreme goddess of fortune. She has been touched by the demon Rāvaṇa, and I am troubled upon hearing this news.

TEXT 189

“Sir, due to my unhappiness I cannot continue living. Although my body is burning, my life is not leaving.”

TEXT 190

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, “Please do not think this way any longer. You are a learned paṇḍita. Why don’t you consider the case?”

TEXT 191

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu continued, “Sītādevī, the dearmost wife of the Supreme Lord Rāmacandra, certainly has a spiritual form full of bliss. No one can see her with material eyes, for no materialist has such power.

TEXT 192

“To say nothing of touching mother Sītā, a person with material senses cannot even see her. When Rāvaṇa kidnapped her, he kidnapped only her material, illusory form.

TEXT 193

“As soon as Rāvaṇa arrived before Sītā, she disappeared. Then just to cheat Rāvaṇa she sent an illusory, material form.

TEXT 194

aprākṛta vastu nahe prākṛta-gocara
veda-purāṇete ei kahe nirantara

TRANSLATION

“Spiritual substance is never within the jurisdiction of the material conception. This is always the verdict of the Vedas and Purāṇas.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

As stated in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad (2.3.9, 12):

na sandṛśe tiṣṭhati rūpam asya
na cakṣuṣā paśyati kaścanainam
hṛdā manīṣā manasābhikḷpto
ya etad vidur amṛtās te bhavanti

naiva vācā na manasā prāptuṁ śakyo na cakṣuṣā

“Spirit is not within the jurisdiction of material eyes, words or mind.”

Similarly, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.84.13) states:

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

“A human being who identifies his body made of three elements with his self, who considers the by-products of his body to be his kinsmen, who considers the land of his birth worshipable, and who goes to a place of pilgrimage simply to take a bath rather than to meet men of transcendental knowledge there is to be considered like an ass or a cow.”

These are some Vedic statements about spiritual substance. Spiritual substance cannot be seen by the unintelligent, because they do not have the eyes or the mentality to see the spirit soul. Consequently they think that there is no such thing as spirit. But the followers of the Vedic injunctions take their information from Vedic statements, such as the verses from the Kaṭha Upaniṣad and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quoted above.

COMMENT

We know from Srila Prabhupada, from the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇa
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ

Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇa: the holy name of Krishna is Krishna Himself. caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ: it is the form of rasa, the reservoir of pleasure. It is pūrṇaḥ, complete; śuddho, pure; and nitya-mukto, always free from material contamination. Why? Because there is no difference between the holy name of Krishna and the possessor of the name, Krishna Himself, abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ.

Now, the question arises, “Since the Lord is spiritual and beyond the jurisdiction of material senses, how can one with materially covered senses touch, or chant and hear, the holy name of Krishna?” In the next verse of the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami explains:

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

Ataḥ means “therefore,” as in athāto brahma jijñāsā. Ataḥ: therefore that is, because the holy name of Krishna is completely spiritual like Krishna, one cannot chant or hear the holy name—touch the holy name—with materially contaminated senses. However, if we engage our senses in the service of the Lord and the Lord becomes pleased with our service, then the Lord will reveal Himself to us. In other words, although we cannot perceive the Lord with materially contaminated senses, the Lord can reveal Himself to us when He is pleased by our service; He can purify our senses and make Himself visible to us.

When even a sādhaka, a devotee who is practicing devotional service, cannot touch even the holy name of the Lord, how could a demon like Rāvaṇa see or touch Mother Sita, who is directly the spiritual energy of the Lord? It is not possible. What Rāvaṇa saw and touched was not the original Sita but maya Sita, an illusory representation of the original Sita. Thus Lord Chaitanya was consoling the brahman: “Don’t lament that Mother Sita has been touched by the demon Rāvaṇa. The demon Rāvaṇa could not even see her, what to speak of touch her. There is no need to lament.”

TEXT 195

viśvāsa karaha tumi āmāra vacane
punarapi ku-bhāvanā nā kariha mane

TRANSLATION

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu then assured the brāhmaṇa, “Have faith in My words and do not burden your mind any longer with this misconception.”

PURPORT

This is the process of spiritual understanding. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: “We should not try to understand things beyond our material conception by argument and counterargument.” Mahā-jano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: “We have to follow in the footsteps of great authorities coming down in the paramparā system.” If we approach a bona fide ācārya and keep faith in his words, spiritual realization will be easy.

COMMENT

In the material world everyone is acting independently. Actually, people are not independent, but they imagine themselves to be independent. They want to think for themselves, see for themselves, make their own decisions, make their own plans. Even when they come to the subject of God, they keep the same attitude: “I don’t need anyone to tell me about God. I can think for myself; I can decide for myself.” Or they may accept some authority according to their liking. Many people go to various authorities and pick and choose what they like from each, and in the end they find confirmation for whatever they thought or wanted to begin with. That is not the way to understand God. Rather, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and surrender. “Surrender” means no wavering to this side or that side. One must remain fixed in submission and obedience to the spiritual master and accept the spiritual master’s instructions without argument.

Of course, the whole process is based on faith, and therefore Lord Chaitanya’s first words are viśvāsa karaha tumi āmāra vacane: “Have faith in My words.” If you do, He says, you will be relieved. But if you don’t have faith in His words, you will go on suffering and nobody will be able to help you.

TEXT 196

Although the brāhmaṇa was fasting, he had faith in the words of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and accepted food. In this way his life was saved.

COMMENT

The brahman was fasting because he thought that Rāvaṇa had touched Sita and kidnapped her. He was ready to give up his life, but because he had faith in the words of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he gave up his misconception, took prasāda, and saved his life.

TEXT 197

After thus assuring the brāhmaṇa, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu proceeded further into southern India and finally arrived at Durvaśana, where He bathed in the river Kṛtamālā.

TEXT 199

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu then went to Setubandha [Rāmeśvara], where He took His bath at the place called Dhanus-tīrtha. From there He visited the Rāmeśvara temple and then took rest.

PURPORT

The path from Mandapam through the ocean to the island known as Pambam consists partly of sand and partly of water. The island of Pambam is about seventeen miles long and six miles wide. On this island, four miles north of Pambam Harbour, is Setubandha, where the temple of Rāmeśvara is located. This is a temple of Lord Śiva, and the name Rāmeśvara indicates that he is a great personality whose worshipable Deity is Lord Rāma. Thus the Lord Śiva found in the temple of Rāmeśvara is a great devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. It is said, devī-pattanam ārabhya gaccheyuḥ setu-bandhanam: “After visiting the temple of the goddess Durgā, one should go to the temple of Rāmeśvara.”

In this area there are twenty-four different holy places, one of which is Dhanus-tīrtha, located about twelve miles southeast of Rāmeśvara. It is near the last station of the Southern Railway, a station called Ramnad. It is said that here, on the request of Rāvaṇa’s younger brother Vibhīṣaṇa, Lord Rāmacandra destroyed the bridge to Laṅkā with His bow while returning to His capital. It is also said that one who visits Dhanus-tīrtha is liberated from the cycle of birth and death, and that one who bathes there gets all the fruitive results of performing the yajña known as Agniṣṭoma.

COMMENT

It is said that when Lord Rama was on the way to Lanka, He worshipped a deity of Lord Shiva. Some ignorant people say, “Because Lord Rama worshipped Lord Shiva, Lord Shiva is the Supreme and Lord Rama is subordinate to Him.” But actually the opposite is true: Lord Shiva Himself is a great devotee of Lord Rama. Sometimes, however, the Lord likes to serve His devotees, as in the case of Krishna and Yasoda. Krishna used to obey the dictations of Yasoda, but that doesn’t mean that Yasoda is Supreme. Krishna used to carry the shoes of Nanda Maharaja, but that doesn’t mean that Nanda Maharaja is Supreme. Krishna drove the chariot of Arjuna, but that doesn’t mean that Arjuna is greater than Krishna. Krishna washed the feet of Sudama Vipra, but that doesn’t mean that Sudama is superior to Krishna. The Lord takes pleasure in worshipping His devotees. Lord Ramachandra wanted to glorify His devotee Shiva, and therefore He may have worshipped him.

Other ignorant people say that because Rāvaṇa was a devotee of Lord Shiva, Rama approached Lord Shiva to ask His permission before killing Rāvaṇa. Once, at Juhu Beach, a disciple mentioned this idea to Srila Prabhupada, and Prabhupada replied that people who say that Lord Rama had Lord Shiva’s permission to kill Rāvaṇa want to say that Lord Shiva is a rascal, that he would give permission for someone to kill his devotee: “Oh, yes. He is my devotee, but it is all right—you can kill him.” Prabhupada said they want to prove that Lord Shiva is a rascal. Rather, Srila Prabhupada said—and he quoted the shastra—when Rama was in the process of killing Rāvaṇa, Mother Parvati asked Lord Shiva, “Rāvaṇa is your great devotee, and now he is in trouble. Why don’t you do something to help him?” And Lord Shiva replied, “Lord Rama is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When He wants to kill Rāvaṇa, what can I do?” Krsna mare rakhe ke, krsna rakhe mare ke. When Krishna want to protect someone, who can kill him. And when Krishna wants to kill someone, who can protect him.

TEXT 200

vipra-sabhāya śune tāṅhā kūrma-purāṇa
tāra madhye āilā pativratā-upākhyāna

TRANSLATION

There, among the brāhmaṇas, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu listened to the Kūrma Purāṇa, wherein is mentioned the chaste woman’s narration.

TEXT 201

Śrīmatī Sītādevī is the mother of the three worlds and the wife of Lord Rāmacandra. Among chaste women she is supreme, and she is the daughter of King Janaka.

TEXT 202

When Rāvaṇa came to kidnap mother Sītā and she saw him, she took shelter of the fire-god, Agni. The fire-god covered the body of mother Sītā, and in this way she was protected from the hands of Rāvaṇa.

TEXT 203

Upon hearing from the Kūrma Purāṇa how Rāvaṇa had kidnapped a false form of mother Sītā, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very satisfied.

TEXT 204

The fire-god, Agni, took away the real Sītā and brought her to the place of Pārvatī, goddess Durgā. An illusory form of mother Sītā was then delivered to Rāvaṇa, and in this way Rāvaṇa was cheated.

TEXT 205

After Rāvaṇa was killed by Lord Rāmacandra, Sītādevī was brought before the fire and tested.

TEXT 206

When the illusory Sītā was brought before the fire by Lord Rāmacandra, the fire-god made the illusory form disappear and delivered the real Sītā to Lord Rāmacandra.

TEXT 207

When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu heard this story, He was very pleased, and He remembered the words of Rāmadāsa Vipra.

TEXT 208

Indeed, when Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu heard these conclusive statements from the Kūrma Purāṇa, He felt great happiness. After asking the brāhmaṇas’ permission, He took possession of the manuscript leaves of the Kūrma Purāṇa.

TEXT 209

Since the Kūrma Purāṇa was very old, the manuscript was also very old. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu took possession of the original leaves in order to have direct evidence. The text was copied onto new leaves in order that the Purāṇa be replaced.

TEXT 210

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu returned to southern Mathurā [Madurai] and delivered the original manuscript of the Kūrma Purāṇa to Rāmadāsa Vipra.

COMMENT

I will read two verses from Kūrma Purāṇa as quoted here in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I just read the translations.

TEXTS 211–212

“When he was petitioned by mother Sītā, the fire-god, Agni, brought forth an illusory form of Sītā, and Rāvaṇa, who had ten heads, kidnapped the false Sītā. The original Sītā then went to the abode of the fire-god. When Lord Rāmacandra tested the body of Sītā, it was the false, illusory Sītā that entered the fire. At that time the fire-god brought the original Sītā from his abode and delivered her to Lord Rāmacandra.”

PURPORT

These two verses are taken from the Kūrma Purāṇa.

TEXT 213

Rāmadāsa Vipra was very pleased to receive the original leaf manuscript of the Kūrma Purāṇa, and he immediately fell down before the lotus feet of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and began to cry.

TEXTS 214–218

After receiving the manuscript, the brāhmaṇa, being very pleased, said, “Sir, You are Lord Rāmacandra Himself and have come in the dress of a sannyāsī to give me audience.

“My dear Sir, You have delivered me from a very unhappy condition. I request that You take Your lunch at my place. Please accept this invitation.

“Due to my mental distress I could not give You a very nice lunch the other day. Now, by good fortune, You have come again to my home.”

Saying this, the brāhmaṇa very happily cooked food, and a first-class dinner was offered to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu passed that night in the house of the brāhmaṇa. Then, after showing him mercy, the Lord started toward the Tāmraparṇī River in Pāṇḍya-deśa.

COMMENT

The chastity of Mother Sita is glorified in similar terms in the summary of the pastimes of Lord Ramachandra in the Ninth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because Rāvaṇa had been cursed by the anger of Mother Sita, his armies were vanquished and ultimately he was killed.

“Aṅgada and the other commanders of the soldiers of Rāmacandra faced the elephants, infantry, horses and chariots of the enemy and hurled against them big trees, mountain peaks, clubs and arrows. Thus the soldiers of Lord Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa’s soldiers, who had lost all good fortune because Rāvaṇa had been condemned by the anger of mother Sītā.”

After Rāvaṇa had been killed, his wife, Mandodari, praised the power of Mother Sita’s chastity, addressing her husband:

“O greatly fortunate one, you came under the influence of lusty desires, and therefore you could not understand the influence of mother Sītā. Now, because of her curse, you have been reduced to this state, having been killed by Lord Rāmacandra.” (SB 9.10.27)

In his purport to this verse, Srila Prabhupada explains that any woman who follows the example of Mother Sita’s chastity and service can attain similar power—and that, in fact, women should follow her ideal example: “Not only was Mother Sita powerful, but any woman who follows in the footsteps of Mother Sita can also become similarly powerful. There are many instances of this in the history of Vedic literature. Whenever we find a description of ideal chaste women, Mother Sita is among them. Mandodari, the wife of Rāvaṇa, was also very chaste. Similarly, Draupadi was one of five exalted chaste women. As a man must follow great personalities like Brahma and Narada, a woman must follow the path of such ideal women as Sita, Mandodari, and Draupadi. By staying chaste and faithful to her husband, a woman enriches herself with supernatural power.”

Although Mother Sita was completely pure and chaste, some ignorant citizens criticized Lord Rama for accepting her back after she had been abducted by Rāvaṇa, and to preserve His authority as king—for the benefit of the citizens—He was obliged to consign her to the care of the great sage Valmiki Muni.

By her transcendental qualities and devotional service, Sitadevi attracted her husband, Lord Ramachandra, the Personality of Godhead. And after she completed her pastimes on earth, He remained absorbed in thought of her—while perfectly executing His royal duties—until He followed her, to continue their eternal līlā in the spiritual world.

Being forsaken by her husband, Sītādevī entrusted her two sons to the care of Vālmīki Muni. Then, meditating upon the lotus feet of Lord Rāmacandra, she entered into the earth. (SB 9.11.15)

After hearing the news of mother Sītā’s entering the earth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was certainly aggrieved. Although He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, upon remembering the exalted qualities of mother Sītā, He could not check His grief in transcendental love. (SB 9.11.16)

Of course, the Lord’s grief upon hearing the news of Sitadevi’s entering the earth was not material. In the spiritual world there are also feelings of separation, but such feelings are a manifestation of the Lord’s internal pleasure potency (hlādinī-śakti) and give rise to transcendental bliss—although they resemble the miserable feelings experienced by ordinary men and women who are materially attached to each other.

After mother Sītā entered the earth, Lord Rāmacandra observed complete celibacy and performed an uninterrupted Agnihotra-yajña for thirteen thousand years. (SB 9.11.18)

After completing the sacrifice, Lord Rāmacandra, whose lotus feet were sometimes pierced by thorns when He lived in Daṇḍakāraṇya, placed those lotus feet in the hearts of those who always think of Him. Then He entered His own abode, the Vaikuṇṭha planet beyond the brahmajyoti. (SB 9.11.19)

Sri Sri Sita-Rama ki jaya!

COMMENT

There is an important lesson for all of us here, whether we are in a man’s body or a woman’s: Sitadevi is the energy of Lord Rama, the property of Lord Rama, and to take the property of the Lord for one’s sense gratification is demonic. Rāvaṇa was a scholar, a devotee of Lord Shiva, and he had many, many good qualifications. However, he had one fault that put him in the category of demons: he wanted to take the Lord’s property and enjoy it for himself. As we have been discussing—and maybe realizing—people in Kali-yuga have two sides: the devotee side and the demon side. The demon side wants to take the property of the Lord and enjoy it, like Rāvaṇa. So we must be careful that the demonic side does not become predominant. Otherwise, just as Rāvaṇa and his whole dynasty were destroyed, our spiritual life will be destroyed.

On this occasion we pray to Mother Sita to bless us to become pure-hearted servants like Hanuman, Lakshman, and Mother Sita herself—and to save us. Whatever Rāvaṇa-like demonic tendencies we have, let them be vanquished by her mercy, by her will, so we may continue in our devotional service without any impediment and ultimately attain pure love (prema), our ultimate goal.

When I was a devotee during Srila Prabhupada’s time, I heard that all of our service here in the material world is ultimately meant to bring Radha and Krishna together in the spiritual world. So, I asked Srila Prabhupada about it, and he said that Sita, Radharani is the original goddess of fortune. Sita is also an expansion of Radharani, she is also a goddess of fortune. So, Srila Prabhupada said that Sita is in the hands of the Rāvaṇas, the materialistic people in the Western world. “And just as Lord Ramachandra crossed the ocean to rescue Sita from Rāvaṇa, so I crossed the ocean and went from India to America to rescue Sita, Lakshmi from the hands of the materialists there. And just as Lord Rama was assisted by so many monkeys, so I was assisted by all of you.” That is Srila Prabhupada’s mercy.

So, my dear devotees, thank you for listening so patiently and attentively. And now, if any of you have any questions or comments or reflections that you would like to share, you can raise your hand, your physical hand or your virtual hand. Hare Krishna.

Sri Sri Sita-Rama- Lakshman-Hanuman ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

COMMENT

All right, Sahadeva Prabhu, you begin.

Sahadeva Prabhu: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Thank you Sarvatma Prabhu. Hare Krishna. Maharaja, thank you so much for giving us association. It is always blissful to have your association. And thank you for sharing Srimati Sita’s kathā. You said that there are lots of lessons to be learned from what you shared with us, which is true. But I also find a few things that seem to be lessons not probably appropriate for some of us to apply. One is, the brahman who was morose because he felt that Sita had been captured by Rāvaṇa, and Lord Chaitanya, explained to him that actually Rāvaṇa did not take the actual Sita, it was a false Sita. For us as devotees, if we begin to think and behave that the Supreme Lord is the Supreme Lord, nothing can affect Him, and therefore when it is called on the altar, the deities do not need proper clothing, we become callous. Because what Lord Chaitanya was telling this brahman could lead him to become callous, that after all, it is just a Sita, nothing can touch her. So, how do we, as aspiring neophyte struggling devotees, see the Supreme Lord? That even though He is the Supreme Lord, nothing can overcome Him. But we also have to relate with Him as if He needs something that we need to do for Him. Because if we don’t do that, then I do not see how we are going to grow. That is my question Maharaja. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, what you said is absolutely right. That when we serve the deity, the first thing is we have to understand that the deity is a person. You have to see the deity as a person, and it is our duty to see to the comforts and pleasure of the deity. So, we cook for the deity, we address the deity, we decorate the deity, we offer worship to the deity, we put the deity to rest, then we wake up the deity. That is our duty. And by serving the deity in that way, we can awaken our dormant love for Krishna. Srila Rupa Gosvami enumerates sixty-four items of devotional service, and he says that of these sixty-four items, five are most potent. And by even a slight association with any one of the five, one can awaken dormant love for Krishna. The five are sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa, mathurā-vāsa, and mūrtira śraddhāya sevana. So, one of the five is to serve the deity with faith and veneration, that is one of the five most potent items of devotional service. And in that service, one thinks of the deity as a person. The deity is a person, and one is mindful of the fact that the deity is a person, and one attends to all the comforts and needs of the deity, just as one would as a servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, we can’t say, “Oh, you are omnipotent, you can feed yourself, you don’t need us to feed you.” That would not be the proper mentality at all. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: I do have another question, in the line of what Sahadev asked, what is the deal category. Well, Lord Ramachandra is omniscient. He is not oblivious to all the arrangements that Yoga-māyā, demigods, and anybody else may make. And he knew that Rāvaṇa didn’t take the real Sita. He was very aware of that. So, what is the big deal? Is this one of those things that need to be a līlā that has to be enacted for the benefit of everyone? What is your take on it? Because he could have revealed, Lord Ramachandra could have revealed to everyone, “Oh no, never mind, he took a material form.” We don’t have to worry; Don’t have to bother, it is not going to be a Rāmāyaṇa. We will concentrate on the next.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. There are many lessons to be learned from the Rāmāyaṇa and in order to teach us those lessons. Lord Ramachandra went through the process of going to Lanka and killing Rāvaṇa and retrieving Sita. And there is an instructive incident that took place at the southern tip of India because in order to reach Lanka, Rama needed a bridge. And so, the monkeys led by Hanuman were heaving these huge boulders into the ocean and they were floating and that made the bridge. So at the seaside, there was a squirrel flicking grains of sand into the water to form a part of the bridge. And Hanuman rebuked the squirrel and said, “You, get out of my way, can’t you see I am heaving these huge boulders and you are just getting in the way.” And the squirrel said, “But I want to serve Lord Rama too.” And Lord Ramachandra overheard the conversation and He chided Hanuman and He said that, “You are serving me to your capacity and the squirrel is serving me to her capacity. So in My eyes, both of your services are equal.” And then He said, “And besides, I am the one who is making the boulders float. So why are you taking credit?” So, from this we should respect every devotee’s service, however big or small, according to their capacity. And not be proud of our service and appreciate the service of others.

Devotee: I have a second question and related to the first one. And it is interesting that you mentioned about the squirrel because I heard about a sparrow and Divya heard about a spider in the same story. So there seemed to be a difference in līlā, some vertebrates, some invertebrates. And also, I find that, even when you read about Sita being taken first to Parvati’s abode and then in another section you read that she was taken to Agni’s abode. So there seems to be a difference, a technical difference or a different in perspective, which I am not sure could be adjudicated to perhaps the same pastime took place in different universes, in different areas. And one time was the sparrow, one time was the spider, one time was a squirrel. Or that Sita went to Agni’s place in one particular universe and went to Parvati’s place in another universe. So there seems to be a disparity, even among the acharyas and commentators, there is discrepancy? There is never discrepancy in tattva and siddhanta, but there is many times one finds discrepancy with līlā. So can you elaborate on that?

Giriraj Swami: I never heard sparrow, but I did hear spider. But what I understood, because that came in the early days of the movement and I think, well, I don’t want to speculate. But what I think is that maybe the devotees were transcribing Srila Prabhupada’s words, and took squirrel as spider. But yes, I did hear spider. I never heard sparrow. But I also noticed that about her being taken to Parvati’s abode, then also to the abode of Agni Deva. But the overriding account is she was taken to the abode of Agni Deva, that is mentioned several times. There is a lot of speculating here, maybe she stopped at the abode of Durga on the way to the abode of Agni Deva. But anyway you need to chant holy name attentively, purify your consciousness so we can better understand these intricacies.

Devotee: Anything easier than that?

Giriraj Swami: Take some fruite prasāda. (Laughter)

Devotee: Thank you, much appreciated.

Giriraj Swami: So, Sahadeva Prabhu, is your hand up again or is it from before?

Sahadeva Prabhu: Yes Maharaja, my hand is up again. I am sorry. Thank you. Maharaja, we just heard that souls in a male’s body should try to look up to certain great personalities and try to emulate them. Similarly, souls in a female body should also try to look up to great personalities like Yasoda, like Mandodari, which is Rāvaṇa’s wife, and great Vaishnavis. Now, my question is, because as devotees, we oftentimes, unfortunately, we become very clever instead of very intelligent. That when we want to do something nonsense, we find a quotation from the scriptures and act upon that. And that is Mandodari was a very chaste, very devoted, great devotee of the Lord. And she was married to a demon. She knew what her husband was doing wasn’t right. She discouraged him, she advised him, she did everything she could to prevent her husband from kidnapping Sita. The husband never listened to her. So somebody may say that as a wife, as long as you are married to your husband, no matter what the husband does, you put up with him. And this is causing a lot of problems. So my question is, what do we do as struggling devotees if we have a spouse who is preventing us from serving the Lord and the guru and the Vaishnavas? They do not even want to hear anything about Krishna. What do we do? Do we still stay with the spouse or what do we do? I don’t think we can just say, “Okay, I am going to be like Mandodari and stay with Rāvaṇa.” I don’t know, that is what I am asking. Hare Krishna Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: So you are asking what if someone’s wife is discouraging them from practicing Krishna consciousness,

Sahadeva Prabhu: Especially if someone’s husband, because usually they say, their husbands are more trouble sometimes than their wives, husbands are more troublesome.

Giriraj Swami: So can you rephrase the question?

Sahadeva Prabhu: Okay. In effect, if an Vaishnavi is married to a man, and this man is anti-Krishna, anything Krishna. What should the woman do?

Giriraj Swami: Well, she should engage in devotional service to Krishna and be Krishna conscious, and try to avoid conflict with her husband. And maybe if she gets to be discreet about her practices that situation you described has happened. And, of course, she should not give up her Krishna consciousness under any circumstances. But she could try to conduct herself in such a way that she avoids coming into conflict with her husband. There is a very nice verse in the Seventh Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that says that, I am paraphrasing it, but it says that family members may advise one not to proceed in Krishna consciousness. And externally, this is what the Bhāgavatam says, externally one should say, “Yes, you have given me very good advice.” But internally, one should remain fixed in one’s determination. So, Malati dasi, your hand is up.

Malati dasi: Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to your divine grace. Guru Maharaja, there are nine processes of devotional service, and it said that if you follow or perfect in one of those, you are eligible to go back home back to Godhead. Now the question is, in grihastha life, we are almost following almost all, chanting, hearing, deity worship, serving. And you are like a type of divided into so many of them. You can’t concentrate one. And as you concentrate on one, obviously, if I chant and hear, I love to do that, but I somewhere or the other neglect deity worship. So it is an aparādha. So how to balance everything in grihastha life and how to go for one or two? So how to follow that, guru Maharaja? Can you please help me out?

Giriraj Swami: As you said, there are nine processes, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam, and one can attain perfection by executing any one of them or two or three or all nine of them. But generally, it is good for us to engage in many of them because we like variety. We need variety. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So it is good to engage in many of them. And especially śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ, arcanaṁ. That arcanaṁ is most potent item of devotional service. And we see that it is related to grihastha ashram or any ashram. But I think it is good to have that variety, but definitely śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ, and arcanaṁ are important and necessary. And there is another verse that describes how different devotees became perfect and different of the nine processes. And Hanuman is the example of the devotee who attained perfection through, dāsyaṁ. So Netravinda and Nadia, you have your hand up.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja, thank you so much for offering your time to us. Please accept my obeisances and all glories to Srila Prabhupada, and his infant Mercy in this process of bhakti which we are all able to partake of freely. My question is relatable to aspects of how we, or myself I should say, I don’t want to blanket everyone in our imperfect states of learning this process. How are we to understand intrinsically what chastity means and how it relates to this path? And along with this in this age of Kali-yuga, there are so many instances where, in relationships between men and women through vivaha, the Vedic marriage ceremony or any ceremony that is relatable to commitments to God, Krishna in our immature states, how we understanding abuse of women even though we are not our bodies, aspects of control that are relatable to jivas in male bodies because of the energies or what have you, and our position as students and feelers. So many emotions come up when somebody says chaste, what does this mean whether someone is practicing Krishna consciousness or aspiring to, how are we helping them understand this, this word chaste, and control or perceived aspects of control? And there is so much rampant abuse in spiritual societies that is kind of just blind-eyed. How are we moving through that in order to practice bhakti with compassion and understanding in these līlās? Thank you Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Well, we should be chased, both in our relationships. A woman should be chased, and faithful to her husband. And we should also, I would say, be chased in our loyalty to Srila Prabhupada and his paramparā in that sort of go here and there. As far as the abuse goes, there is different ways of looking at it, but the way I see it is that the woman is a Vaishnavi and therefore to abuse her is vaiṣṇava-aparādha, which is very serious and should be avoided at all costs. And if, by chance or misfortune, someone commits vaiṣṇava-aparādha, the only way to give is to beg forgiveness to Vaishnava or Vaishnavi. And of course, not repeat that abusive behavior. But it is a problem when there is abuse. I am not sure if I exactly addressed your question. I am not sure exactly what your question was, but I really pray that this abuse will stop. It is really bad for both, of course, it is in one way it is bad for the person who is abused, but it is also bad for the abuser who is committing that serious offense.

Host: Any other questions or comments devotees? Oh, there it is, Yogendra Baharanso. Please unmute yourself.

Devotee: Daṇḍavat praṇāma Prabhuji. I am asking a question. Maybe you know about it or may not know about it since you have been quite near to Srila Prabhupada. I visited the temple, Mayapur. And there, I did not see any deities of Rama. I saw the deities that the entire place is fabulous, but I did not master any reason behind it or what was it understood that Rama and Krishna are the same. So why put both of them together?

Giriraj Swami: Sure, primarily we are devotees of Krishna. In Juhu, Srila Prabhupada suggested that we have Sita-Rama, Lakshman and Hanuman because he said there are many devotees of Rama in Bombay. And in our temple in Potomac, Washington DC, we also have Sita-Rama. And Srila Prabhupada felt it because Washington DC is the capital of the United States, the seat of the government, so Rama should be there as the example of the ideal ruler. So there were places where Srila Prabhupada did introduce the deities of Sita-Rama. But generally we worship Radha-Krishna, Gaura-Nitai, Jagannatha, Baladeva, and Subhadra, those are the deities that we most frequently find on the altars of ISKCON temples. I personally don’t see why there should particularly be the deity of Rama in Mayapur.

Host: Any other questions devotees? Also there is a deity of Sita-Rama, Lakshman, Hanuman in the temple in Delhi and also the Bhaktivedanta manor and London near London. So there we have we have quite a few temples that have these Sita-Rama, Lakshman, Hanuman, just not all of them.

Giriraj Swami: That is true

Devotee: And there is a, if I may say there is there was an incident between Rupa Gosvami and his younger brother Anupama where Lord Chaitanya of course instructed everybody to chant Hare Krishna, and Anupama was very attached to chanting the name of Rama. So obviously, he was advised to change his mantra and start chanting Hare Krishna and he did; he was obedient and he was very pure. But he started crying and said that he could not give it up chanting the name of his Lord Rama. And Lord Chaitanya praise them that didn’t say, ‘No, that is you are in the wrong age, This is not Treta-yuga anymore, in Kali-yuga, you have to chant Hare Krishna now.’ “Very good, excellent. Chant Sita-Rama.”

Any other, Revati, are you lifting your hand, do you want to unmute yourself please?

Devotee: Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances. Thank you for the class. You were talking about how we could pray to Sita-Devi, and I just thought maybe it is the end of the class, you could repeat that and maybe elaborate just a little more helping people pray to her.

Giriraj Swami: Pray to her for what?

Devotee: You mentioned that we could pray to her.

Giriraj Swami: Oh. What I said was that we can pray to her to bless us to become pure hearted servants like Hanuman, Lakshaman, and Mother Sita herself, and to save us. And whatever Rāvaṇa-like demonic tendencies we have, let them be vanquished by her mercy, by her will so we may continue in our devotional service without any impediment and ultimately obtain pure love of God, prema, our ultimate goal. So yes, that is our prayer.

Devotee: I wanted to hear it again so that it would maybe go a little deeper in my heart.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, you heard it again. Do you want to hear it another time? Yes, that was a good prayer.

Devotee: Thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: Any more questions or comments? Seems not.

Host: If that is the case, well, first I want to thank you on my behalf and on behalf of all the Gita-Nagari Community for honoring us with your presence and your insights in your talk. And I will encourage as we as customary to us that we ask for cacophony at the end of a good lecture and ask everybody to unmute themselves and offer their gratitude in person. So thank you, please devotees unmute yourselves.

Giriraj Swami: So I would say, if are ending now, let us end with Vaishnava praṇāma.

Let us all offer respectful obeisances to Vaishnava devotees of the Lord who are just like desire tree, who fulfills the desires of everyone and full of compassion to fallen conditioned souls.

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca 

patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

Host: I hope you enjoyed the concert of voices.

Giriraj Swami: I did immensely.

Host: Thank you, thank you again. Devotees, for those who are in Gita-Nagari or anywhere else, tomorrow we promise a weekend of wisdom and this was a highlight. And tomorrow morning here in Gita-Nagari from directly from London, we have Chiti Shakti. She is a very nice devotee. A licensed psychiatrist, she has been helping the devotees all over the movement. And she is an excellent speaker. So, if you wish to tune in, I will actually put in the chat the link for all of you to be able to attend. Again, our gratitude to His Holiness Giriraj Swami. Please try to listen to his lectures and read his books. You won’t be disappointed. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Thank you. Hare Krishna.