Carrying Srila Prabhupada’s Legacy of Love, Compassion, and Service—Part 01

Host: How would you define love?

Giriraj Swami: Well, love means to care for the other person really more than oneself and put their interests ahead of one’s own interests.

Host: What is the difference between compassion and mercy and how does that differ from love? I feel like if one is loving, one is also compassionate, and if one is truly loving, they are also merciful. So how do they relate with one another and what is the difference, if any.

Giriraj Swami: Compassion and mercy refers specifically to people who are, in a way, dependent on one. Whereas love can be for someone who is superior to oneself, or equal to oneself, or in a way, less than oneself. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives a beautiful explanation on how a devotees deals with different people. prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā - prema, means we give our love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead; maitrī, we make friendship with devotees; kṛpā means we show mercy to the innocent; upekṣāḥ means we ignore the envious, and although, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura said this, “We do neglect the envious, in a way that we don’t preach to them because they won’t respond favourably, but we can pray for them.”

Host: Could you tell us a story or an experience where you have witnessed Srila Prabhupada’s mercy? [Unintelligible] You were always experiencing that when you were with him, but maybe you have a story which at the moment is more present in your minds.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada showed his love by enlightening us with the knowledge of Krishna Consciousness and engaging us in devotional service. Although, he didn’t usually show his love in sentimental way, but once his good friend, Bhogilal Patel came to me and Srila Prabhupada in Juhu. I had been cultivating Bhogilal, who was four years older than Srila Prabhupada. As they were talking naturally in a conversation–when Bhogilal was talking, I was looking at him and when Srila Prabhupada was talking, I was looking at him. But then, at a certain stage when Bhogilal was speaking–I looked at Srila Prabhupada, which he wasn’t expecting, and he was looking at me with so much love. I mean like a doting father, or by age, grandfather. But then, as soon as he saw me looking at him, he became very grave, and sort of concealed that outwardly affection and expression that he had but it was a special mercy that I got to see that.

Host: I was told at some point that for any Krishna conscious vow taken on Lord Nityananda’s appearance day–Lord Nityananda ensures that it becomes fruitful. Have you ever heard this?

Giriraj Swami: In my knowledge, nothing is automatic. I think of one story of one incident that Rupa Maharaja related, where Srila Prabhupada was just beginning the movement in New York City, and Satsvarupa Maharaja was just coming and offering service of typing Srila Prabhupada’s manuscripts. Satsvarupa Maharaja was very diligent. As soon as he got the tape, he would transcribe it, maybe edit the manuscript, and then beautifully return it to Srila Prabhupada, and then take the next manuscript. One day, when he gave the manuscript to Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada said, “It is not automatic but if you love me, I will love you.”

Host: Being in the association of devotees is really the safest place. But, I think I heard a class where Tamal Krishna Maharaja was saying that, in a way, there is danger because you can make offense very easily. Especially when we are closely doing service with devotees and making new friendships. There are devotees who spend from early morning to night together in service and it is easy to make offense. In those situations, how do we make sure that we are grateful to those devotees and not criticizing, and not making offense but making close friendships with them.

Giriraj Swami: There is a beautiful purport in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I think 7:5:12, and in the purport Srila Prabhupada writes, “Everyone should be friendly for the service of the Lord, one should appreciate the service of others and not be proud of one’s own service. This is the way of Vaishnava thinking, Vaikuntha thinking.” So we should see the good in others and appreciate their good qualities and their service, and that will create a congenial atmosphere, both for our relationships with the other devotees and for our own spiritual advancements.

Host: The way you interact and speak with your godbrothers and godsisters, there is so much love. How do we go about building the same kind of relationships in our lives in Krishna consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: Srila Rupa Gosvami in the Upadeśāmṛta (Nectar of Instruction, NOI 4) mentions the six exchanges of love.

dadāti pratigṛhṇāti
guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati
bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva
ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam

We engage in those exchanges and as Srila Prabhupada says in the purport, those exchanges nourish the spiritual lives of the members of the International Society of Krishna consciousness. dadāti pratigṛhṇāti means to give gifts, and accept gifts; guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, this is the central point that one reveals their mind in confidence, and enquires confidentially. It is very important amongst devotees that we maintain confidentiality and that way devotees will feel they can open up to us and disclose their minds to us without the fear that what they share with us will be shared with others. bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva, giving prasāda and accepting prasāda.

Host: Every time I hear about revealing one’s mind confidentially, I feel that it is a hard thing to do or at least being comfortable sharing very openly or honestly with another person just what they are really thinking or feeling. When we hear that written in the scriptures, does it mean we do that with every devotee or does it mean we try to find devotees, even if that is just one or two devotees that we can have that type of relationship with. Could you elaborate on that?

Giriraj Swami: We have to use our discrimination with regards to whom we disclose our minds to. They should be confidential. They should be our well-wishers. Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu enumerates sixty-four items of devotional service and he says out of those sixty-four items, five are most potent. And, even slight association with even one of those five can awaken dormant love for Krishna. The five are sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa, mathurā-vāsa, and śrī-mūrtira śraddhāya sevana [Unintelligible]. He gives a definition of sādhu-saṅga, [Unintelligible]. [Unintelligible] in the literal sense means in the same community, for us, that would mean followers of Srila Prabhupada. [Unintelligible], and [Unintelligible] can mean who has similar affection for the Lord or who is affectionate to you, the sadhu should be affectionate to you. Sato vāre means he should be more advanced than you are. That is the real definition of sādhu-saṅga. It is one of the most potent items in devotional service.

Host: How do you prioritize between our personal sadhana and service?

Giriraj Swami: That is a very good question and we need to do both. Srila Prabhupada has said first, health; second, sadhana; and third, service. And then on another occasion he said, first, health; second, chanting; third, service; and fourth reading. So here we have to find the proper balance and what might constitute the proper balance for us at one time might not be the same as the appropriate balance at another time. So you have to be alert and aware to maintain that healthy equilibrium between service and sadhana.

Host: How do we reconcile guru’s estimation of our ability in service with our own perception of our limited ability?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it is said that when the Spiritual Master gives an instruction, he also gives the potency to execute it. Of course, being a humble Vaishnava, she or he might feel oneself to be less qualified or less capable but one is not alone in one’s endeavours. Guru and Krishna are there to help and so with faith in guru and Krishna, one should take up the service, and not be overly concerned with one’s own lack of qualification or ability. Like it is said, guru and Krishna can make a blind man see, and make a lame man cross mountains.

Host: You said we don’t preach to those who are envious but how to deal with devotees who are sometimes envious towards other devotees who may be performing better in their devotional service or getting more attention or affection from their superiors?

Giriraj Swami: Well, envy and jealousy are related but they are distinct. But you could say a devotee in a way could be envious of another devotee who is getting more attention and recognition and mercy but we should, if we are able, encourage that so-called envious devotee to be happy for the devotee who is flourishing and that will be good for that so-called envious devotee. Yes, again coming back to that beautiful purport, everyone should be friendly for the service of the Lord, everyone should appreciate the service of others, and not be proud of one’s own service. This is the way of Vaikuntha thinking, Vaishnava thinking.

Host: When we have genuine love and compassion for each other, we want to act upon that, we want to serve, but Srila Prabhupada told us that we can do practical service without having much love and compassion because service including hearing and chanting will ignite that love and compassion in our hearts. If we don’t have much love–with the mechanical action of just doing service even when we don’t feel like–it will still help us. How can we understand this?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, certainly. In the early days of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada’s disciple, Gargamuni dasa said that he saw all these devotees bowing down to Srila Prabhupada, but he didn’t have the feeling to bow down. Srila Prabhupada replied, you should bow down anyway, and the feeling will come. Though often we may do something mechanically or externally but the feeling will come, as long as we don’t commit offenses, even externally doing a service will eventually give rise to the desired feeling.

Host: We see in all of the Srila Prabhupada disciples a special mood based on love and surrender to Srila Prabhupada. There is something special about them. A specific kind of mood that we rarely find in the future generations of devotees. How can future generations of devotees develop that same kind of special Srila Prabhupada loving surrender?

Giriraj Swami: It is possible and I suggest every devotee in ISKCON should become absorbed in Srila Prabhupada, and there are various ways they can do that. Of course, first and foremost is to read his books, and apply what they read in their lives and then, another way is to read about Srila Prabhupada such as Prabhupada Līlāmṛta. There are many wonderful books that Srila Prabhupada disciples have written about him. And then, there is Yadubara Prabhu’s DVD series called, ‘Following Srila Prabhupada’ and seeing those DVDs will definitely inspire one’s appreciation for attachment to Srila Prabhupada, and desire to serve him, and surrender to him. So, devotees should be as immersed in Srila Prabhupada as possible, then they will be inspired to surrender unto him, and serve him like his direct disciples.

Host: Is it important to have taken the time to read all of Srila Prabhupada’s books before we go and share Srila Prabhupada’s teaching with others or at what point can we say one is ready to do that and go out and preach? The way Srila Prabhupada showed compassion to all of us and to the world, the fallen conditioned souls is by going out and preaching, sharing the maha-mantra, the holy names, and his books. How does one get to a point where they are ready to go out and share that or does that happen naturally? If you could elaborate on that and help us understand.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada said we should preach according to our realization and even if our realizations aren’t very deep or esoteric or profound, still if our realization is that chanting Hare Krishna is nice, it makes one feel happy, and gives one peace, then one can say that much. Or that the association of devotees is very congenial. So we can preach according to our realization, we don’t have to wait until we’ve read so many books, of course we should read and when we do read we should share what we have learned. Srila Prabhupada said, “If you have knowledge and you share it with others, your knowledge will increase, and if you have knowledge and you don’t share it with others, you’ll become envious.” It is very important that we share the knowledge that we’ve received from Srila Prabhupada and his paramparā.

Host: When sharing the knowledge with others, at least, going out on saṅkīrtana and preaching, there is people of all different races and backgrounds and nationalities. Srila Prabhupada was so loving and compassionate, it didn’t matter what somebody’s qualification was, he embraced them with his mercy. Within our movement, he is united people from different races and backgrounds with this common centre of Krishna consciousness, this was his legacy of love and compassion. However, we see as devotees, we still face challenges reconciling differences in regards to material designations of race, religion, and gender. How can we take Srila Prabhupada’s legacy of equal vision and compassion into a new era with this consciousness despite our material differences?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

A learned person sees everyone equally. A gentle and learned brahman sees with equal vision a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog-eater. So we should see beyond the body, we should see the soul within the body, and see that every soul is by nature an eternal servant of Krishna. Jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’ (CC Madhya 20.108–109) and help awaken their dormant Krishna consciousness. We ourselves shouldn’t identify with the body and we shouldn’t identify them with their bodies, but we should identify ourselves and them as eternal servants of Krishna.

Host: How do you deal with mistakes without living in regret or lament the mistake?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is a very good question. We may make mistakes and we should repent, we should feel sorry for the mistake we made and we should resolve not to make the same mistake again. But one shouldn’t dwell on it to the point that one becomes morose and depressed. Once I made a mistake and Srila Prabhupada was correcting me, and he could see that I was sort of lamenting, getting in the mood of lamenting, and he said I don’t want you to lament, I just want you to learn from the point that I am making. So, it is good to repent and to resolve to do better but one shouldn’t be too depressed or dwell on it in a negative way. As His Holiness, my dear godbrother, Sridhar Swami used to say, “There is no utility in negativity.”

Host: We distribute the maha-mantra to people, at the same time Krishna Consciousness is non-sectarian, and sometimes devotees tell people they can chant any holy names of the Supreme Lord from any religion. Is that because any holy name is effective or is it that eventually it could lead to their chanting the maha-mantra?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, we do say that they could chant any name and they will benefit because the holy name of Krishna and Krishna are identical and by chanting the holy name, they will associate with Krishna and become purified and happy. Once when Srila Prabhupada was in Iran, a very intelligent disciple, [Unintelligible hh:mm:ss] dasa was sort of waxing eloquently about the day when all the Muslims in Iran would chant Hare Krishna and Srila Prabhupada said, “Why do you want them to chant only Hare Krishna, they can also chant Allah Allah, we are not sectarian.” So that is a philosophical truth and it might have also been a practical tip, because if we did try to get them to chant Hare Krishna, they might have gotten in trouble. So yes, why do you want them to chant only Hare Krishna, they can chant Allah Allah.

Host: How do we hold our emotions in the wrong situation? Do we have to ignore the situation or do we have to stand up and fight to sort out the situation? Does letting go work better for us or do we have to fight for what is right? Please enlighten me.

Giriraj Swami: As it is said, one has to choose one’s battles and if something is going wrong, and if one is in a position to correct it, or one thinks one might be in a position to correct it, then one should do so in the mood of service to Guru and Krishna. We shouldn’t just let it go, but if something is completely beyond our capacity to influence in a positive way, then we might have to let it go. In the sense that we don’t do anything about it because we can’t, but at the same time we can also pray things improve, but I think of one exchange I had with Srila Prabhupada in Calcutta in 1971. I said to him, “Srila Prabhupada, now you are here so everything is going well, but if in the future, when you are not here, ISCKON falls from the standard, what should I do?” Srila Prabhupada replied, “You are also one of the important members of the society,” which I didn’t particularly think I was, because I was quite new, but he said, “You are also one of the important members of the society, so you work for the correction, but don’t leave.” And I think that is very powerful and relevant instruction, not just for me, but for any devotee in ISKCON or follower of Srila Prabhupada, so if you can, yes work with the correction.

Host: How do we deal with highs and lows in our devotional life? Are they normal? How do we also avoid the lows and always stay high to work enthusiastically for your pleasure? Does knowing that we are low in our spiritual life displease you, guru Maharaja? Please guide us.

Giriraj Swami: It is natural, sometimes we do better than at other times, but we should persevere even if we are going through a rough patch. We should persevere and know that Guru and Krishna are there to help us and understand that it is just a temporary phase, and that things will get better, certainly, they will get better by the grace of Guru and Krishna. So one should persevere, as His Grace Bhurijana Prabhu said about chanting japa attentively, “It is a battle with the mind, but that battle must be fought,” so we have to fight the good fight.

Host: Srila Prabhupada said that our love for him will be shown by how we cooperate with each other after he is gone, and you yourself showed your love for Srila Prabhupada by cooperating with the institution, the GBC, and with your godbrothers and general devotees, especially in the Juhu struggle, you also showed your implicit faith into Prabhupada’s decisions, despite others’ doubts. What prompted you or helped you to come to this realization, and how can we, who lack that kind of love and faith, progress in our faith and surrender to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and missions?

Giriraj Swami: I knew that Srila Prabhupada was the perfect master and I had faith in his decisions and instructions and by following them, I benefited immensely and even in his absence, we can get his association by serving him in separation. As he wrote in the dedication to his Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to his spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja, “He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with him.” So, Srila Prabhupada lives forever by his divine instructions and the followers live with him by following his instructions.

Host: I was just thinking about how we have a couple more days here with you in Houston, and every time you are here with us physically, it just like even now, in this room and sitting here with you, you feel loved, so much love for you, and for sure it is sometimes difficult to understand that, that vāṇī and vapuḥ are non-different or that physical presence and the instructions, they are the same. So could you elaborate on how we can connect when we go about our separate ways after today’s saṅga here? Many devotees who have joined from around the world, very rarely get to see you in person. I know you just did almost like a half world tour quite recently but how do we stay connected and what are the best ways to do that and still feel that love that we so easily feel when we can see, especially when we see your beautiful smile when we are in person with each other?

Giriraj Swami: The basic relationship with the spiritual masters is to follow the instructions and then, by doing so, one does feel the guru’s presence. I wouldn’t say that vāṇī and vapuḥ are the same exactly because vāṇī means words or instructions and vapuḥ means body or physical presence. Srila Prabhupada did say that we should take advantage of the vapuḥ, but when the vapuḥ is not available, then we take care of the vāṇī, we serve the vāṇī. With the vapuḥ, you also get the vāṇī. When you are in the physical presence of the spiritual master, you also get instructions and yes, one should try to take advantage of the physical presence as far as possible. I am basically planning to make it a yearly program, to go to England, India, Mauritius, and back to India so I can have more personal association with the devotees.

Host: You have demonstrated such a perfect example of devotion to Srila Prabhupada and his mission, so I was wondering if you could elaborate on the importance of guru bhakti in the guru disciple relationship and how to properly develop surrender to the mission of the spiritual master?

Giriraj Swami: Guru niṣṭhā, to form faith in the guru and devotion to the guru is most important. Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “The quality he looks for most in a disciple is guru niṣṭhā and from that other things follow,” just to remain firm and fixed on that determination, that resolution, and again, along the way you can take help from other disciples, godbrothers, friends, and well-wishers to serve in the best way.