Reading from Dancing White Elephants—Indore

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna my dear devotees. It is a great honor and pleasure and privilege for me to be with all of you students of Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta at VIHE, and also Bhakti Shastri students. So, I have been asked to speak about Srila Prabhupada, and it is my pleasure to do so. And I thought to read from my latest book called Dancing White Elephants: Traveling with Srila Prabhupada in India August 1970 to March 1972, which is leading up to Srila Prabhupada’s getting the Juhu land and asking me to come there. So, this book covers thirteen different places:

First is Amritsar, October 20th to 30th, 1970.

Then Delhi and Vrindavan, October 30th to December 3rd.

Then Indore, December 3rd to December 15th.

Then Surat, December 15th to January 3rd. Bombay, January 4th to 6th.

The Ardha Khumba-mela in Allahabad, January 12th to February 2nd.

Gorakhpur, February 3rd to 20th.

Then Bombay again, March 13th to May 2nd.

Calcutta, May 1st to November 9th.

Delhi, November 10th to 25th.

Madras, November 27th, 1971 to February 24th, 1972.

And Mayapur in Calcutta, February 25th to March 25th, 1972.

Today, I thought to read about Srila Prabhupada’s visit to Indore, which is related to his preaching of the Bhagavad-gītā, which was very dear to him. And many interesting events and conversations took place in Indore.

READING from Dancing White Elephants

Chapter Four, Indore—December 3–15, 1970

After a month in Bombay, Srila Prabhupada proceeded to Indore by invitation of the Gita Bhavan for the Gita-jayanti Mahotsava, the celebration of Lord Krishna speaking the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and on December 8, at his request, our group—minus Gurudasa, who was working on getting customs clearance for Prabhupada’s books—joined him.

The organizers had assigned Prabhupada a cottage with a lawn and garden and housed the rest of us nearby. After settling into our quarters, we toured the festival site’s large pandal and stage, the Gita Bhavan Eye Hospital, and an extensive diorama exhibit with an eclectic mix of spiritual paths. It was kind of like a pseudo-spiritual museum, and we were impressed by the energy and imagination that had gone into the center but dubious about the legitimacy of it all. Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, as well as demigods and even animals were all on display, which Srila Prabhupada referred to dismissively as a “hodgepodge.” “Where in the Bhagavad-gītā does it say that you should open an eye hospital?” he asked. “But if I tell them that, they will feel offended.”

Later, when we entered Prabhupada’s darshan room, he looked up from his desk. “Srila Prabhupada,” Yamuna remarked, “you look just like a picture I have seen of your guru maharaja looking up from his desk.” “All that glitters is not gold,” he replied. “My guru maharaja was like gold; I am like iron.” Of course, we knew that he was pure gold—just like his guru maharaja.

“How Srila Prabhupada dealt with us each individually was the greatest gift,” Yamuna recalled. “He treated everyone on a personal basis and encouraged us in our practice of Krishna consciousness. I felt that he genuinely loved each of us, and he exhibited that love through how he took care of us—with great concern, compassion, and correction when required.

COMMENT

So yes, that is how Srila Prabhupada showed his love. But once, I would say, I got some special mercy to see Srila Prabhupada’s love. Srila Prabhupada had a friend in Bombay named Bhogilal Patel, who was very pious, and he was three years older than Srila Prabhupada. And he was so pious that when the first devotee met him at his office to enroll him as a life member and told him about Srila Prabhupada’s achievements, Bhogilal Patel began to weep. He cried profuse tears. So one day, Seth Bhogilal came to Juhu to meet Srila Prabhupada. At that time, Srila Prabhupada was still in his quarters at the back of Hare Krishna Land. He had not moved into his new quarters. And as is natural in a conversation, when Seth Bhogilal was speaking, I would look at him, and when Prabhupada was speaking, I would look at him. And when Seth Bhogilal would speak, I would look at him, and then when Srila Prabhupada would speak, I would look at him. But once, when Seth Bhogilal was speaking, I looked at Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada was looking at me with such love, just like a doting father or, by age, like a doting grandfather. But as soon as he saw me looking at him, he concealed that loving expression and it became very grave and serious.

READING (continued)

He personally took me to my room, which contained a small bed and a metal armoire. Then he took out a small key, opened the armoire and said, ‘Here is space for your belongings. Is this all right?’ I was thinking, Here I am, an insignificant person in his party, yet he is showing so much concern for my welfare. And that same concern and kindness he showed to me, he also showed to everyone in the party by taking into account our natures, our characters, our individuality. We were his World Saṅkīrtana Party—his preachers—and at every moment we were reminded how important this was to Srila Prabhupada, this traveling saṅkīrtana.”

Srila Prabhupada was scheduled as the last speaker of the first night of the festival, so we all had to sit onstage for hours, listening to an assortment of sadhus and swamis give a series of long lectures in Hindi with Mayavada misconceptions. He sat with us and waited, chanting japa. When it was finally his turn to speak, he described how he was spreading the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā in the West. The Gītā, he said, was for devotees of Krishna and should not be misinterpreted, which would be cheating in the name of religion.

At the end of his talk, he asked us to have kirtan, and when he joined us in dance onstage, the crowd came to life and began clapping rhythmically. Hansadutta jumped down into the crowd, still playing mridanga, then other devotees joined him, and soon hundreds of people rose to their feet and joined the kirtan and dancing.

The next day, pleased by the performance, the pandal directors visited Srila Prabhupada in his quarters. Prabhupada complained about having to wait so long to speak and his disciples having to sit through hours of speeches that deviated from the teachings of the Gītā in a language they couldn’t understand. But the director replied, “We do not favor any particular way. Followers of the Shankara school and others also come to our institution. We do not subscribe wholly that Sri Krishna is the sole God or anything of the sort. There is a power behind Him.”

The remark drew fire from Prabhupada. What kind of glorification of the Gītā did not accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the highest truth: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat? (Gītā 7.7)

When the men had left, Prabhupada continued, “They are thinking that there is something beyond Krishna or that it is the spirit within Krishna that we have to surrender to. But they do not know that the within and the without of Krishna are all absolute, eternal, and full of bliss.” As in Amritsar, he could see that the festival organizers had invited him to draw larger crowds. But they would not make him sit through all the Mayavadi nonsense again. From then on, he said, he would go with his disciples, speak, chant, and then leave.

The next night, however, despite promises by the pandal directors, Prabhupada again had to wait until the end of the program before he could speak and hold kirtan. The crowd was larger than before, and they were clearly waiting for him and his foreign sadhus. When his turn came at last, he spoke and then asked us to begin kirtan. Again the crowd responded enthusiastically, but during the kirtan one of the members of the Gita Bhavan gestured to the devotees to jump down into the crowd as they had done the previous night. But what the devotees had done spontaneously could not be staged as a crowd pleaser. The man, however, was insistent. He came forward to the edge of the stage, reached up, and began grabbing at the feet of the dancing devotees, trying to pull them into the audience. Grabbing indiscriminately, he pulled at one of the women’s saris. Srila Prabhupada was also dancing, but when he saw what was happening, he rushed to the edge of the stage and swung his kartals toward the man’s face and shouted, “Stop this!” The man retreated, and Prabhupada and the rest of us continued our kirtan. Although little-noticed by the crowd, Prabhupada’s burst of lionlike ferocity impressed and inspired us, his disciples.

One evening, Vairagi Baba, an educated follower of Lord Chaitanya who had visited America and spoke fluent English and who had participated in one of our programs in Bombay, joined Srila Prabhupada and the devotees on the stage, and Prabhupada got up from the vyāsāsana and came right in front of him and began to jump up and down and dance in an effort to encourage him also to jump up and down and dance, and there were the two of them jumping up and down and dancing before thousands of people.

The festival directors were again pleased with Prabhupada’s lecture and kirtan. But he sent them word that he would no longer sit through the other speakers, waiting for his turn. He had wearied of hearing opinions on the Bhagavad-gītā that avoided its conclusion—surrender to Sri Krishna, the Absolute Truth. Some speakers made the Gītā an allegory, some said that Krishna was not an actual historical personality, some just took advantage of the Gītā’s popularity to put forward their own political or social philosophies. A person with his own philosophy should write his own book, Prabhupada said, not use as a vehicle for his ideas, the Bhagavad-gītā, a scripture worshipped by millions and respected throughout the world.”

COMMENT

So there was another Gītā event in 1976, in Wardha, Maharashtra, organized by Sri Ramakrishna Bajaj, a very big industrialist, under the banner of the Gita Pratishthan, or the Gītā conference. And he wanted Srila Prabhupada to attend. But Prabhupada was reluctant because he said, “Different speakers will have their own ideas of what the Bhagavad-gītā says, and who will decide what is the actual message of the Gītā?” And he made the same point that people try to present their own philosophies in the name of Bhagavad-gītā. And he said, “It is like a man is smoking ganja, marijuana, but he is not holding the pipe; he has a friend holding the pipe. So when the authorities come, he says, ‘See, my hands are clean. I am not touching the marijuana.’” So he said, in the same way, they present their own philosophies but they take the name of the Bhagavad-gītā; they make the Bhagavad-gītā responsible for their concocted philosophies.

READING (continued)

Why should a conference under the name Gita-jayanti become a forum for speculative philosophies? The Bhagavad-gītā itself stated that it was the essence of knowledge, meant to benefit the entire world. To misrepresent the Gītā, therefore, was the greatest disservice. And Prabhupada felt that by sitting through such a program, he and his disciples were tacitly approving the blasphemous speeches.

On the third night of the festival, Prabhupada came with us early, having been promised that he would be first on the program. But when another speaker stood and began his discourse, Prabhupada, followed by the rest of us, stood and walked off the stage. The festival director was quite disturbed by this, since most of the audience had come especially for the kirtan, and he pleaded with Prabhupada to return, but Prabhupada refused, though he agreed to send his disciples in his stead; we would speak and hold kirtan.

Thereafter, Prabhupada stayed back at his cottage during the evening programs and Hansadutta and sometimes Himavati spoke. But as before, we had to sit on the stage for hours and listen to the Mayavadis spout nonsense while the audience was eagerly awaiting our kirtan. We repeatedly asked the organizers of the program to tell us exactly what time we would perform, and every day, we were given a time and we came, but every evening, the Mayavadis went on and on, well past the time we were supposed to begin. Finally Hansadutta told the organizers, “If you make us wait like this anymore, we are not going to come.” The following night, however, again we had to wait, so we didn’t attend the next program.

Once more, the organizers were upset—everyone in the audience had been waiting for us—so they came to Prabhupada’s cottage in a group to complain. “Why should I make them sit through some Mayavadi speaking nonsense in Hindi, which they don’t even understand?” Prabhupada replied. And that pretty much silenced the organizers.

One of the Mayavadi sannyasis, who went by the name Muktananda Swami, did join our movement. We were impressed by his change of heart, considering it to be like Prakasananda Sarasvati and all of his followers’ conversion by Lord Chaitanya to Vaishnavism. We had never had a Mayavadi sannyasi join us, so we asked Srila Prabhupada what his position would be. Prabhupada said that Muktananda should give up his sannyasa garments and dress and live like a brahmachari. Eventually, Muktananda went through the standard procedure of getting first and then getting second initiation. Prabhupada was pleased that he had joined, and would sometimes address remarks to him for encouragement.

When we were not engaged in attending programs or giving talks at the pandal, Srila Prabhupada would send Hansadutta out to make life members. Hansadutta had no experience, but one day, he recalled, “Prabhupada told me to go to the market with a neighbor and take these books—three Kṛṣṇa books—and try to make some life members. ‘Just show them the books,’ he said, ‘and tell them this is a token of our work. Then ask them to please help our mission by becoming a life member for 1,111 rupees.’ I was thinking that no one was going to give one thousand rupees for two or three books, so I didn’t do anything about it; I just avoided the issue. The next day, Prabhupada gave me the same instruction, but again I didn’t do anything. On the third day he said I had to go, so I went next door and got a man who took me to the cloth merchants.

“We went to the shop of the biggest cloth merchant in Indore. The man didn’t speak English, so the neighbor who had accompanied me translated. I would say, ‘Tell him this. Tell him that.’ And the man would translate. After I had exhausted my presentation, I said, ‘Now ask him to give a check for 1,111 rupees.’ My translator relayed the message, and the merchant immediately took out his checkbook and wrote the check. “We visited another merchant, and the same thing happened—he immediately wrote a check. And then we went to another merchant, and he also became a life member. So, I made three life members on the first day, and when I came back and told Prabhupada, he was in ecstasy.”

A palmist came to Srila Prabhupada’s cottage one day and wanted to read our palms. We turned to Prabhupada, and he said it was all right, so the palm reader looked at each of our hands and made predictions—this one would become a great devotee, this one would go back to Godhead in this life, this one would fall away, this one wouldn’t make it in this life but would have to come back and try again. After the palmist left, we again looked to Prabhupada for guidance as to what to make of the whole thing. He said, “As soon as you clap your hands three times in front of the Deities during ārati, all the lines are wiped off.” Thus, he dismissed the palmist’s predictions.

Another time, we were invited to an admirer’s home for lunch, and Vairagi Baba was also there. But we noticed that after the meal, he was drinking tea. So, in a casual way but with an element of challenge, I asked him why. He replied, “Oh, I am avadhūta.” I had never heard the word before, so I told Srila Prabhupada what had happened and asked what it meant. Prabhupada smiled and said, “Avadhūta means one who is above the regulative principles. Generally, this refers to Nityananda Prabhu.” And he indicated his disapproval of Vairagi Baba’s both drinking tea and referring to himself in such a manner.

COMMENT

So, I will come to it. There is a lot of good things in this chapter, but I will come to a very interesting discussion. But first, one other thing, and then we will come to that discussion.

READING (continued)

On December 14, Prabhupada accepted an invitation from a wealthy gentleman who was related to the royal family. He spoke with the man about the importance of Krishna consciousness and then showed him his books and asked him to become a life member. “I already have these books in my own language,” the man responded. “I don’t need any more.” Prabhupada became stern. “I have not come here to sell you some books,” he corrected. “I have come here begging at your doorstep.” Taken aback, the man immediately joined: “Oh yes, Swamiji, I will become your member; I will be glad to become your member.”

COMMENT

So, Prabhupada said that when we preach and collect funds, make life members, or get ads, we should be very humble. There was a big shipping magnate in Bombay named Kotak who somehow had been avoiding me. He was too protected in his office, but I got his residential address and visited his home. And I made a presentation, and he said, “What can I do for you?” So I replied, “I have come to do something for you.” And he said, “What can you do for me?” And I said, “I have come to engage you in Krishna’s service.” So, eventually he did donate, but when I went back and related the conversation to Srila Prabhupada, he said that “When you go to preach, you have to be very humble, not like ‘Oh, I have come to do something for you,’” but like this, as Prabhupada said, “I have come as a beggar at your doorstep.”

READING (continued)

In the dining room for lunch, our host seated Prabhupada at the head of the long banquet table, and I took my place at his right. Then we all honored prasāda. Having been trained to follow a strict brahmachari lifestyle, I was particularly reserved about eating sweets, and especially seated next to Prabhupada, I tried not to take too much of the more opulent preparations—I didn’t want to indulge in sense gratification, and I certainly didn’t want Prabhupada to think I was doing so. So even when the host’s elderly father repeatedly tried to serve me a second rasagullā, I refused. Prabhupada could see that the host’s father was disappointed though, and finally he glanced at me and said, “You can take a sweet to make an old man happy.” And so I did.

Many gentlemen came to meet Srila Prabhupada—usually with their own ideas of spiritual life. He even complained, “They come to the guru with their own opinions to see if the guru will agree. If the guru agrees, he is very good. But if the guru disagrees, they think, ‘He is not good.’”

One argument he had with some guests was especially instructive. On the previous night, he had delivered a lecture at the Gita Samiti Hall, where he was appalled to find that there was no picture of Krishna. The next day, he raised the issue with his guests to point out that many people were not properly understanding and presenting the Bhagavad-gītā and its speaker, Lord Krishna. He explained that his mission was to present the Gītā properly, “as it is,” and to expose those who did not.

Prabhupada: Bona fide spiritual master means one who carries out the order of higher authorities. We are carrying out the order of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, or Krishna. Krishna taught the Bhagavad-gītā, and He stated, “Anyone who preaches the confidential message of the Bhagavad-gītā is very dear to Me.”

Guest: We believe in an incorporeal God, nirākāra.

Prabhupada: Who says, “incorporeal?” Who says?

Guest: You find it all over India, that incorporeal form—jyotir-liṅga.

Prabhupada: That is all right. You are bringing something besides the Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. In this International Society for Krishna Consciousness we are preaching the Bhagavad-gītā. Jyotir-liṅga—these theories may be in other literatures. But we are particularly interested in preaching the Bhagavad-gītā. And because the Bhagavad-gītā is being preached wrongly all over the world, with nonsense commentation, we want to rectify it. Therefore our society is especially named “Krishna conscious.”

Guest: What is wrongly preached about Gītā?

Prabhupada: Just like yesterday, I went to that Gita Samiti [Gita Society]. There is a lamp. Why a lamp instead of Krishna? Krishna is a lamp? Therefore I say it is being wrongly preached. Why there is a lamp? Does Krishna say?

Guest: Lamp has been with us for more than—

Prabhupada: That is all right. Krishna has also been there.

Guest: They must evolve.

Prabhupada: No, no. The first thing is that the Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Krishna. So, why there is no picture of Krishna? That means you have not understood Krishna. Therefore your so-called Gita Society is not bona fide. Even in ordinary affairs, if there is some political meeting, you keep Gandhi’s photo, Nehru’s photo, because they are the political leaders. Gita Samiti is preaching the Bhagavad-gītā, and there is not a single picture of Krishna. This is misguided. Now Gita Bhavan, they have invited me because we are teaching the Bhagavad-gītā, and that was the Gītā’s jayantī—and the speaker of the Gītā is not present? Therefore I say that there are so many places, even here, that are wrongly representing the Bhagavad-gītā. So our position is to rectify that wrong propaganda.

Guest (2): What is that wrong propaganda?

Prabhupada: That is one instance. There are many. Just like in the Ninth Chapter, there is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Lord Krishna says, “Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me, and worship Me.” But Dr. Radhakrishnan says, “It is not to the person Krishna.” Where does he get this nonsense idea?

Guest (1): No, Vivekananda has also said that.

Prabhupada: Therefore I say they are all nonsense. They are all nonsense who deviate from the original text of the Bhagavad-gītā.

The guests challenged Srila Prabhupada’s statement that his presentation of the Bhagavad-gītā was correct whereas others’ were not. They said he should see and treat others with “equal vision.”

Guest (5): If each and every person has an individual identity of soul above the body, unless you treat him as equal.

Prabhupada: There are three guṇas, and Bhagavad-gītā analyzes, “These persons are in sattva-guṇa, these persons are in raja-guṇa, these persons are in tama-guṇa.”

Guest (5): That is not the personality of the ātmā. The ātmā is everybody’s soul. If you have the potency to rise and go higher and higher—

Prabhupada: You are not in the ātmā stage; I am not in the ātmā stage. You are in the bodily stage.

Guest (5): Both—body and soul together.

Srila Prabhupada challenged the guests: If they saw everyone equally, why did they find fault with him? “If you are in the ātmā stage,” he asserted, “you have no argument with me. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (5.18):

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

‘The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog-eater.’”

COMMENT

And incidentally, when I first joined the Boston Temple, and I was asked to give a Bhagavad-gītā class. So, this was the verse on which I spoke in my first Bhagavad-gītā class.

READING (continued)

Guest (3): That is the correct position.

Prabhupada: That is the correct position. But if you find that “Swamiji is not on the standard,” that means you are not in the position, sama-darśinaḥ.

Guest (3): But that means that if a person commits a murder, a sinner.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is very high stage, sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ means there is no distinction between what is sin and what is virtue. As soon as you see “This is virtue and this is sin,” it is not sama-darśinaḥ. Here it is said clearly, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe. A brahman is learned and vinaya, “very humble”—these are signs of goodness. Vidyā-vinaya sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni. Śuni means “dog.” He sees a dog and a learned brahman the same. Now, the dog is supposed to be sinful, and this learned brahman is supposed to be virtuous. Therefore in his vision, the virtuous and the sinful are the same. That is sama-darśī.

Guest (1): I think they have made many mistakes in writing the slokas.

Prabhupada: That is all right. Now you are finding faults in Vyasa, so who can talk with you? Please excuse me. Please go out. You are finding faults with Vyasa.

Guest (4): We only want you to be understood here.

Prabhupada (shouting): I am not sama-darśī. I don’t say I am sama-darśī. You say sama-darśī.

Guest (2): You should be sama-darśī.

Prabhupada: But I am not in that stage. I say because you don’t surrender to Krishna, you are sinful. That is my darśaṇa.

Guest (5): You should also be seeing as sama-darśinaḥ.

Prabhupada: No, why shall I? I am not in that position. I am simply repeating the words of Krishna. That is my point. I may be sama-darśī; I may not be sama-darśī. My position is simply to repeat. That is all.

Srila Prabhupada had explained in his books that one on the highest platform does not make distinctions; he sees everyone engaged in the service of the Lord. But when one takes the position of acharya, or preacher, one must make distinctions for the sake of instructing others and delivering them. Even the highest devotee acts on the intermediate platform when he preaches. I remembered Prabhupada’s strong criticism of persons who were still in the bodily concept of life but tried to imitate the highest devotee: “The uttama-adhikārī [highest devotee] knows that there is no difference between a vastly learned brāhmaṇa and a dog in the street, because both of them are of the Lord, although they are embodied differently according to the qualities of material nature. Such a learned devotee is not misled by material bodies but is attracted by the spiritual within the respective entities.

“Those who imitate an uttama-adhikārī by flaunting a sense of oneness or fellowship but who behave on the bodily platform are actually false philanthropists. The uttama-adhikārī sees the living entity’s soul and serves him as spirit. Thus the material aspect is automatically served.” (Īśopaniṣad 6 purport)

Finally, a sixth guest raised one last question:

Guest (6): But every successive teacher has added some interpretations of the knowledge, no?

Guest (4): You are the successor of somebody.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Guest (5): Then what is your contribution? That is what we are asking. What is sama-darśī? Have you become sama-darśī?

Guest (6): You are teaching others to be sama-darśī.

Prabhupada: My sama-darśī is that why should only Hindus know Krishna. The whole world should know Krishna. But if you, the Hindus, refuse to know, what can I do?

By Srila Prabhupada’s practical work, he had made Krishna consciousness available to all persons all over the world. That was his equal vision and that was his contribution—to his predecessors, and to us. He was presenting Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people all over the world were accepting and becoming Krishna’s devotees. The guests were impressed. And if they wanted, they could also follow and benefit.

COMMENT

So now, come to the end of the chapter.

READING (continued)

Srila Prabhupada gave us class every morning before sunrise, and on the 15th of December he spoke on the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about Ajamila and the holy name, which he related to the experience of the Gita-jayanti Mahotsava. We listened with rapt attention, appreciating a story that we had never heard and that was so meaningful and relevant: “We are talking of Ajamila, a brahman residing in Kanyakubja, presently known as Kanpur. There are so many things to know, but these things are not being discussed here. It is very cheap to do whatever you like—you simply meditate and you become God. So much cheating is going on all over the world. The so-called yogis say, ‘You meditate, and as soon as you are realized, you become God.’

“The Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many different ways. And these so-called explanations are being accepted by the innocent public as authoritative knowledge. Someone is explaining that Kurukshetra means this body, and pañca-pāṇḍava [the five Pandavas] means the senses. But this is not explaining. How can you explain the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is when you do not understand it? Such an attempt is nonsense.”

In his next talk, Prabhupada narrated more of Ajamila’s life and commented, “At that time there was only one Ajamila, but you will find many Ajamilas like that at the present moment, because it is the Age of Kali.” Then he came to Ajamila’s critical moment: “He was just on the point of death, so naturally he had affection for his son, so he was calling, ‘Narayana! Narayana! Please come here! Please come here!’ That is natural. I know my father—when he was dying, I was not at home. So he was living for one day to see me. He was always inquiring whether Abhay has come back, like that. So, father’s paternal affection is like that, and similarly Ajamila was calling, ‘Narayana! Narayana!’”

Prabhupada explained that according to the Bhagavad-gītā, one’s mentality at the time of death determines one’s next birth. If a person remembers Narayana, or Krishna, at that moment, he becomes liberated. Because devotees are Krishna conscious, they enter the spiritual world, and because the materialists are absorbed in sense gratification and mental speculation, they have to take birth in the material world.

He gave an example: “One gentleman in Calcutta was a fairly big businessman. He was dealing in shares, stocks. So, at the time of death he was crying, ‘Kamarhati! Kamarhati!’ So the result might be that he might have taken his birth as a rat in the Kamarhati mill. It is possible. At the time of death, whatever you think, that will carry you to your next type of body.”

He continued, “When Ajamila was dying, he saw that there were three ferocious persons, very fearsome persons, with ropes in their hands. Sometimes a dying man cries, because he sees somebody has come to take him to Yamaraja. He sees, and he is very fearful. So Ajamila also became fearful. The assistants of Yamaraja have hair very curled, and the hairs on their bodies are standing. Now at the time of Ajamila’s death, the assistants of Yamaraja came to take him.”

Then he paused and said, “We shall discuss sometime again.” And he ended the lecture.

On his last morning in Indore, Prabhupada continued Ajamila’s story, explaining that because Ajamila had uttered the holy name, he was immediately saved, even though he had been so sinful: “So, Ajamila at the time of his death just remembered his youngest son, whose name was Narayana. The very name of Narayana has got the full potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana. That is the secret of this nāma-saṅkīrtana movement. By chanting the holy name of Narayana, you immediately contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nāma, the Lord’s name, is not material—it is spiritual. Krishna and Krishna’s name, there is no difference.

“In a very appealing voice Ajamila began to ask his son Narayana, ‘Please come here. I am dying.’ He was very afraid of the Yamadutas.

“Krishna sent the Vishnudutas to give Ajamila shelter. The Vishnudutas looked just like Lord Narayana, with four hands. With a grave voice, they said to the Yamadutas, ‘What are you doing? Stop! You cannot take this man to Yamaraja.’”

Thus Prabhupada ended his lecture—and his stay in Indore.

Baba Balmukund, one of the sadhus who attended the Gita-jayanti, summarized Srila Prabhupada’s contribution: “I have seen many sadhus and great saints in this Gita Bhavan. I saw Srila Prabhupada also in the same place. I was very much impressed by Srila Prabhupada and his preaching. It was because Prabhupada had revealed the reality about bhakti. Because he was a pure bhakta, he could change the people of the West and give them another dress, he could give them another diet, and he could entirely change their culture and give them true bhakti. And this was the greatest thing Prabhupada has done. Let the world say as it likes, but he has done a marvelous thing regarding Lord Krishna’s bhakti. What Swami Vivekananda, Swami Rama Tirtha, and others could not do, Srila Prabhupada has done. It is a marvelous thing.”

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

COMMENT

So, my dear devotees, thank you for listening so patiently and attentively. And now, if any of you want to ask any questions or make any comments, share any reflections, you can raise your hand. Yes, do we have a microphone? Can we give her a microphone?

Devotee: Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. Thank you for the class. My question is that, Srila Prabhupada told, [Unintelligible 01:21:00] That position is to simply repeat the words, and he told that, but I can or cannot be. So, in what way was he saying that statement? Like, in what sense?

Giriraj Swami: Can you repeat your question?

Devotee: Yes. Srila Prabhupada told that I may or may not be perfectly, but my position is to simply repeat the words. So, in what sense was Srila Prabhupada saying that?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. According to that verse, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ, one who is sama-darśi, he does not distinguish between pious activities and sinful activities. A brahman is considered to have performed pious activities and therefore he took birth as a brahman. A dog is considered to perform sinful activities and therefore he took birth as a dog. But if one is sama-darśi and sees a gentle and learned brahman and a dog the same, it means that he is not distinguishing between pious activities and sinful activities. But Srila Prabhupada said that is not his position. He says, “You are not surrendering to Krishna; therefore, I say you are sinful.”

In Juhu, Srila Prabhupada would go for a walk on Juhu Beach every morning, and his constant companion was Dr. C.P. Patel. And Dr. Patel he considered them to be sadhus, and he would mention them to Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada would compare them to the standard of Bhagavad-gītā. If they were not up to the standard of Bhagavad-gītā, Prabhupada would say so. So, one day, Dr. Patel brought up one of the revered holy persons of India, according to his estimation, and Prabhupada said, “He is not standard.” And Dr. Patel took offense, and he actually started to shout at Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada was saying, “I am not saying; Krishna is saying, na mā duktino mûhā prapadyante narādhamā. Anyone who doesn’t surrender to Krishna is a miscreant, fool, rascal. I am not saying; Krishna is saying.” But Dr. Patel really took offense, and he started shouting at Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada was shouting back at him. And Dr. Patel had his cronies, his friends, and even they tried to restrain him. They said, “You know, Swamiji, he has a heart condition; don’t upset him so much.” And they tried to pull Dr. Patel away, but he wouldn’t leave; he kept shouting, and Prabhupada was shouting back at him.

So then, back at the temple, Tamal Krishna Goswami asked Srila Prabhupada, “What is Dr. Patel’s actual position? Because sometimes he speaks like a Vaishnava. When Prabhupada would accuse him of being a Mayavadi, Dr. Patel would say, ‘No, sir, I am a Vaishnava; I am a pure Vaishnava.’” So Tamal Krishna Goswami asked, “What is Dr. Patel’s actual position?” And Srila Prabhupada told a story about a man who could speak very fluently and expertly in different languages. Whatever language you would address the person in, he would respond perfectly in the same language. So people were wondering, where is he actually from? What is his actual mother tongue? Then one of the villagers said, “I will find out.” So when the man wasn’t looking, he came up behind him and he gave him a big whack on the back, and then the man started to curse in his native language, in his mother tongue. So Srila Prabhupada said, “Dr. Patel is like that. He can speak expertly in different languages, but when I hit him where it really hurt, his true language came out.” And then Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “Well, why do you put up with him? He is so offensive.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “We have to engage everyone.” That was Srila Prabhupada’s vision, merciful attitude.

So then, for the first time, Dr. Patel did not come to accompany Srila Prabhupada on his morning walk. And Srila Prabhupada said, “All right, now no more discussion. We will just read Kṛṣṇa book.” So we reading Kṛṣṇa book on the morning walks, and Dr. Patel did not come. But then, one day, as Dr. Patel describes it, something in his heart impelled him to approach Srila Prabhupada. So he went up to Srila Prabhupada and touched his feet and said, “Prabhupada, I have been taught to respect all the accredited saints of India.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Yes, and I have been taught to say who is a saint and who is not a saint.” So they got reconciled, and again, Dr. Patel joined the morning walks with Srila Prabhupada. After Prabhupada left, he wrote an article that was published in Back to Godhead magazine. The title of the article was My Life’s Most Precious Moments, and the subtitle was “Bombay doctor wins the title ‘Big Fool’ and likes it.” So yes.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. [Unintelligible 01:30:25]. So we hear that, generally, a person is sometimes compared to venomous snakes. A So, how do we, in our day-to-day life, also, we connect with people with these tendencies? So how do we balance this principle of venomous snakes and, at the same time, being detached and compassionate?

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are two kinds of Mayavadis: one is like a confirmed Mayavadi, like Dr. Radhakrishnan, and the other is someone who has become a Mayavadi just by association with other Mayavadis, who has not come across the real teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā, and who can change and accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead with the proper association. So when we deal with someone, we have to assess: are they confirmed Mayavadis, or are they just Mayavadis because they don’t know any better, and they can become personalists with good association. But since you mentioned that, let me tell you what Srila Prabhupada said about Dr. Radhakrishnan.

So, when Srila Prabhupada was in Madras, in addition to meeting with Dr. Radhakrishnan, he met with Rajaji, who was ninety-three. So, Srila Prabhupada was telling Rajaji how he wanted Mahatma Gandhi to take up the preaching of the Bhagavad-gītā.

READING (continued)

Prabhupada: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi, that “You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got swaraj, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world.”

Rajaji: He was doing it from the beginning—not exclusively, but applying the Bhagavad-gītā to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really. But you are referring to concentrated, exclusive teaching of the doctrine as a way of life.

Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes I requested Dr. Radhakrishnan also, when he was vice-president.

Rajaji: Radhakrishnan? Nowhere in comparison with Gandhi.

Prabhupada (laughing): No.

Rajaji: Radhakrishnan, highly intellectual, good man, but he was more of a. . . He gave no inspiration. God seems to have decided to spare him from that hard work.

Prabhupada: Yes.

COMMENT

So now we come to Prabhupada’s meeting with Dr. Radhakrishnan. I will give some background.

READING (continued)

I had also arranged for Srila Prabhupada to meet with Dr. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, who served as the second president of India from 1962 to 1967 and as the first vice president of India from 1952 to 1962 and who had written several books and translations of Vedic philosophy from the impersonal point of view. Srila Prabhupada had previously criticized Dr. Radhakrishnan’s translation and commentary on the Gītā, which declared that although Krishna says surrender unto Him, we don’t actually have to surrender unto the person Krishna but “the unborn, beginningless, eternal who speaks through Krishna.”

Then Prabhupada wrote in an article –

“In the Bhagavad-gītā the Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna says surrender unto Me only. But Dr. Radhakrishnan says surrender not to the person Krishna. Is it not the opposite view to suit the particular type of philosophy followed by Dr. Radhakrishnan? These indirect interpretations of the Mayavadi school for all kinds of revealed scriptures are properly condemned.”

Now Dr. Radhakrishnan was a decrepit old man. Withered and bent over, he shuffled in with the assistance of a nurse, was lowered into a chair, and, Visakha remembered, “sat near Prabhupada, wordless.” With Dr. Radhakrishnan, silent and trembling, next to him, “Prabhupada leaned forward and gently addressed the doctor, explaining how he was traveling widely to present the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is throughout the world, and receiving a good reception. People were hankering for this knowledge, taking it seriously and becoming devotees of Krishna, Prabhupada said. Prabhupada quoted Krishna in the Bhagavad-gītā: ‘I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.’

COMMENT

So, Srila Prabhupada didn’t criticize Dr. Radhakrishnan for his misinterpretation of the Gītā, but he just presented the way he offered the Bhagavad-gītā and how people were receiving his presentation.

READING (continued)

“‘Krishna,’ Prabhupada went on, ‘is a person. Not a person like us, for we are embodied souls; Krishna’s form is all spiritual.’ We could personally relate to Him by serving Him with love and devotion.”

The old scholar sometimes responded with a glimmer in his eyes, but he could only make incoherent sounds, and after a few minutes, his nurse interrupted, “The doctor is tired now and must rest. He thanks you for kindly visiting him.” And on his nurse’s arm, Dr. Radhakrishnan hobbled back to his room.

“Later,” Shyamasundara wrote, “Prabhupada said, ‘Suppose I have written one book, Bhagavad-gītā. So, I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating! How much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. Void. Simply sitting down like this. He cannot ask whether he is hungry or not. His daughter is always attending, giving him some food. Then he is eating. Otherwise, he does not say. Lost everything. He has mentioned Bhagavad-gītā as a mental speculation in his Indian Religion book. So he is such a great offender, he must suffer. But it is good for him. Because he is a gentleman, therefore his offenses are being compensated in this life.’”

The meeting seemed to affect Prabhupada, and for days after he would soberly mention how the old Mayavadi scholar was living almost like a vegetable, just sitting in his house for years on end, paralyzed, spoon-fed by his daughter.

In his room one day, Srila Prabhupada gave me a brief description of each of his books in just one or two sentences. Concluding, he said, “The Nectar of Devotion is real nectar” and “The Kṛṣṇa book is pastimes and philosophy woven together in such a way that while reading it you don’t even realize that you are getting the philosophy.”

Giriraj Swami: So we have a few more minutes in case any of you have any more questions or comments.

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Mahaj Maharaja.

I think Dr. Radhakrishnan and J. Krishnamurti, all these philosophers, are indirectly helping the Krishna consciousness movement because Krishna is very genius. All the indirect means who are averse to Krishna consciousness join that kind, so that they won’t come to hear this. That is why it means that otherwise they come and see ‘I God, you God,’ and so they join that. So they don’t come here.

Giriraj Swami: That is one way of looking at it. Well, Srila Prabhupada did say that, that in the beginning, maya tests a devotee to see who is really a devotee, who wants to serve Krishna, and who is coming to disturb Krishna. So therefore, in the beginning, maya tests a new person quite a lot.

Devotee: Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. I wanted to ask that I heard that how Srila Prabhupada would be so fearless and fierce in his preaching, and even in a place where he was invited, he was among all other speakers of different philosophies, still he could oppose them very strongly, and he could put his point forward. But in today’s scenario, we see sometimes with the senior devotees if they are sharing a stage with people who are following different paths, they don’t generally try to oppose them or something. And that is, I understand, it is in today’s worldview, it is not actually people don’t consider it very appropriate or things like that. So how do we how should we, as followers of Prabhupada, take this in scenarios as where in two scenarios: one is with people, how should we behave? Should we have a softer approach that we should be accepting of all the other faiths and philosophies? Or secondly especially on social media, like how should we put our view forward?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if we are on a platform with followers of other philosophies, we have to present our philosophy as it is. And we don’t necessarily have to comment directly on what they have said. Srila Prabhupada, even in his meeting with Dr. Radhakrishnan, he didn’t directly mention anything that Dr. Radhakrishnan had written, but he gave the proper understanding, which contradicted Dr. Radhakrishnan’s misunderstanding. As far as social media, I don’t think it is a very good platform for philosophical discussion. Usually if someone raises a philosophical question, I suggest that we continue the conversation by email because, although sometimes on Facebook, I will post a link to a talk I gave, or an article that I have written. But as far as like tit for tat going back and forth, I don’t recommend doing that on social media. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Daṇḍavat praṇāma. We saw this story, this incident of Dr. Patel misbehaving with Prabhupada, which is, which was a very serious Vaishnava aparādha. So I am a very, very new person in Krishna consciousness, so my concern for myself is that, think, there are a couple of devotees in my family also, and we somehow sometimes end up having an argument about something or the other, not maybe about Krishna conscious philosophy, but when we are dealing with each other because the more time you spend with each other, the more for granted you take each other for, so we are quite upfront about it, and this mad elephant is the disease, that I don’t want to get. So what can I do to just keep it away from myself?

Giriraj Swami: Well, when we deal with family members who are devotees, we should keep in the forefront that they are devotees and deal with them respectfully as devotees. We might have differences of opinion; that happens among devotees, whether family members or not. But yes, you should be humble and respectful. And so you are saying sometimes you argue about things?

Devotee: Yes, like with your partner, maybe with your relatives or parents who are devotees, sometimes the disagreement is not about what we are practicing essentially in Krishna consciousness. But we are going some of the way, and the opinions are different. The elder person is not willing to understand, or I have an opinion, and there is a habit of blurting out instantly. There is less patience. I am trying to develop it, but still, it is not. . .the speed of improvement is so slow.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I think of a conversation one devotee told me about her and her husband. Whenever they would discuss what to do for sense gratification, like where to go, what to see, they would always disagree. But whenever they discussed what to do in relation to devotional service, they were always in agreement. So, as far as possible, if you can keep the focus on devotional service, then you will have more agreement. And if you are discussing other things, where to go, what to do, what to see, there may be differences. But you feel the elders should listen to you more?

Devotee: No Maharaja, actually, I think I have not expressed it clearly. What I say is that, we are three siblings. So, I take care of my mother more often than the others. But she is a mother, so she wants to take care of all her children. So, in terms of their demands and everything, or whatever they expect from her, sometimes falls on my shoulders to a great extent. But she, being a mother, wants to cater to it, and I, being a daughter, just want to cater to what she needs, not the needs of everyone, because it gets too much for me also sometimes. So, that is where we really disagree upon because we don’t really discuss much outside of devotional life. This is only the main area of disagreement. I hope this is not going on YouTube.

Giriraj Swami: I think your relationship with your siblings is finished now. They will never speak to you again. Oh yes, I can appreciate your mood and taking care of your mother. I think that is proper. And in a way, it is proper for her to care equally about all of her children. But still, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says, he sees everyone equally, but if someone is a special friend to Him, He is a friend to them. So, I think that if you are the one who is providing the most care for your mother, it is natural that she would reciprocate with you more. But at the same time, acknowledge and accept and appreciate the other siblings.

Devotee: Hare Krishna guru Maharaja. Please accept my humble obeisances. I have a question that, can you share your experiences to solve difficulty to build a temple? And how did you get determination and commitment?

Giriraj Swami: What was the first part?

Devotee: Can you share your experiences to solve difficulty to build the temple?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I wrote a book about it called I’ll Build You a Temple: The Juhu Story. You can get everything in there. And yes, I had faith in Srila Prabhupada, and I knew he wanted the project. I learned early in my spiritual life that the secret of success in spiritual life is to serve the spiritual master and please the spiritual master. So, that was my focus always, to serve and please Srila Prabhupada. So, I was happy with it. Once, His Holiness Bhakti Svarupa Damodar Swami Maharaja said to Srila Prabhupada that, “I have only one department, the Bhaktivedanta Institute, and I have so many problems. And you have the whole worldwide movement to manage. I can’t even imagine how many problems you have to deal with.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Problems? I don’t see problems. I see only service to my guru Maharaja.” Hare Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

VIHE ki jaya!

Devotee: Maharaja, Naga Patini Mataji brought Srila Prabhupada’s shoe.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, Naga Patni Mataji brought Srila Prabhupada’s shoe. Special mercy. So, do we pass it, or can we get it?

Devotee: We can get the mercy. Last year, we put the shoe on everybody head.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, they come forward. Alright, my dear devotees, you can get some special mercy. You come forward, and we will tap you on the head with Srila Prabhupada’s shoe.