SB 7.6.1 – Raising Children in Krishna Consciousness—Bhaktivedanta Model School

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna, my dear devotees. I will sing maṅgalācaraṇa prayers and lead a short kirtan. And then I will read a verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam related to education, and then we can have questions and answers.

[Prayers and kirtan]

So, my dear devotees, I will begin by reading a verse and purport from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

We read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Seven, Chapter Six, “Prahlāda Instructs His Demoniac Schoolmates,”

TEXT 1

śrī-prahrāda uvāca
kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam

TRANSLATION

Prahlāda Mahārāja said: One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life — in other words, from the tender age of childhood — to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements. The human body is most rarely achieved, and although temporary like other bodies, it is meaningful because in human life one can perform devotional service. Even a slight amount of sincere devotional service can give one complete perfection.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The whole purpose of Vedic civilization and of reading the Vedas is to attain the perfect stage of devotional service in the human form of life. According to the Vedic system, therefore, from the very beginning of life the brahmacarya system is introduced so that from one’s very childhood — from the age of five years — one can practice modifying one’s human activities so as to engage perfectly in devotional service. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (2.40), svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt: “Even a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.” Modern civilization, not referring to the verdicts of Vedic literature, is so cruel to the members of human society that instead of teaching children to become brahmacārīs, it teaches mothers to kill their children even in the womb, on the plea of curbing the increase of population. And if by chance a child is saved, he is educated only for sense gratification. Gradually, throughout the entire world, human society is losing interest in the perfection of life. Indeed, men are living like cats and dogs, spoiling the duration of their human lives by actually preparing to transmigrate again to the degraded species among the 8,400,000 forms of life. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is anxious to serve human society by teaching people to perform devotional service, which can save a human being from being degraded again to animal life. As already stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja, bhāgavata-dharma consists of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam/ arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. In all the schools, colleges and universities, and at home, all children and youths should be taught to hear about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In other words, they should be taught to hear the instructions of Bhagavad-gītā, to put them into practice in their lives, and thus to become strong in devotional service, free from fear of being degraded to animal life. Following bhāgavata-dharma has been made extremely easy in this Age of Kali. The śāstra says:

harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva
nāsty eva gatir anyathā

One need only chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Everyone engaged in the practice of chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra will be completely cleansed, from the core of his heart, and be saved from the cycle of birth and death.

COMMENT

So, my dear devotees, the Bhaktivedanta Model School is running along the same lines mentioned here and thus is doing a great service to humanity. And everyone benefits: the students benefit, the teachers benefit, the administrators benefit, everyone benefits because they are engaged in devotional service which gives pleasure to Srila Prabhupada and the paramparā and ultimately Krishna. So now you can ask questions or share comments or reflections. Open for questions and answers.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. I have two questions. One: Srila Prabhupada very nicely mentions how the children should be trained, and in fact, he also started some gurukulas in those times. So, the question I had in my mind is that some of the children who have gone through the gurukula system do not want to chant or practice Krishna consciousness. So now, some of them must approach you for guidance or saying their problems. So we want to learn from their journey so that we can avoid similar mistakes in raising our children or in the school so that we not reinvent the wheel in making the curriculum all the activities in the school or at home as parents. So, what are those things that come to your mind when you are guiding such gurukulas, children who somehow become averse to practicing Krishna consciousness? That is my first question.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, well, that may be true of some of the students, but definitely not all because recently I just met a student. He is a former student in the gurukula in Vrindavan, and now he is a devotee and he is aspiring to be initiated by His Holiness Radhanath Swami Maharaja. So he is an example of someone who went through the gurukula and he is practicing Krishna consciousness and he is eager to make further advancement. And there are a number like that.

But it is true that some went through the gurukula and then didn’t maintain their Krishna consciousness. Of course, there were some unfortunate cases of child abuse, which would definitely be traumatic. But I think overall we have made progress in our schools. I was recently in Mayapur, and I visited one of the schools there, and they are doing very well. The students are very happy there. It is a day school, but the students are very happy, and they are getting a lot out of their gurukula education in Mayapur. Do you have another question?

Devotee: Yes Maharaja. There is this famous pastime of you with Prabhupada where, Prabhupada mentions that organization will grow, organization with intelligence. Now, school being a very just a new organization that we are running here, what all things should we take care to ensure that this small organization becomes a very big tree to give shelter to so many children? How should we grow it nicely the way Srila Prabhupada taught you those days?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, well, that incident that you quoted, took place three days before Srila Prabhupada left. I was taking rest on the rooftop of the gurukula, and a devotee woke me up in the middle of the night and said, “Srila Prabhupada wants to see you.” So I went into Srila Prabhupada’s room and he was lying on his bed and, his voice was quite weak. I had to really strain to hear and Srila Prabhupada asked me, “So, what do you think? Will this movement go on after I leave?” I replied, “Yes, if the devotees are sincere and chant their rounds and follow the regulative principles, it will go on.” And then Srila Prabhupada said, “Organization, intelligence, and organization.” I thought about the purport of what Srila Prabhupada said. Yes, for our own spiritual advancement, we have to be sincere, chant our rounds, and follow the regulative principles. But to spread Krishna consciousness, we need organization and intelligence. So as far as our Bhaktivedanta Model School, they seem to be employing organization and intelligence. It has grown a lot since the beginning, and it will continue to grow. I met some of the boys; they are quite nice. The ones I met, I am sure they are all nice.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Many times we teachers want to make calm in our mind, but throughout the day we may come across some provocative situations. So how do we keep ourselves calm in those situations or in the mode of goodness so that the situation is handled with intelligence and the outcome is correct for our children?

Giriraj Swami: And from where would the provocation come?

Devotee: Any situation. I deal with primary section children, where we are in the age group of somewhere between six to eleven years old. So someone has just teased their friend, one of the children has teased another child, but it has hurt the emotions of the second child who was being teased. The child may react in some negative way, either pushing or using bad words. So at those times, and some situations really go too far.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the first thing I would recommend is good attentive japa. That will definitely prepare you for the day, prepare you for your service, and give you clarity. And you have to be humble and tolerant, but sometimes you have to intervene and correct a student who is misbehaving. But you should do it with sympathy, not out of passion. Srila Prabhupada said that if correction is offered with sympathy, it is more likely to be accepted. So, we do face challenges in our service, but I really recommend good attentive japa to prepare you for your service.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. I am not a teacher, but I have one question. You said about organization and intelligence. So, even for our spiritual life growth, we need to organize. Many times, I experience this: I know what is to be done, it is like two personalities. I know I have to reach there, but I am unable to bridge the gap. So I am struggling a lot in fulfilling the idealistic person that we have to be or how we have to be organized, the career, or organizing in spiritual life. I just want your guidance on bridging this.

Giriraj Swami: Well, again, attentive japa is helpful. Also, Srila Prabhupada said that 90 percent of Krishna consciousness is association. So associating with mature, experienced, sympathetic devotees will help. In the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami enumerates sixty-four items of devotional service. He says that out of the sixty-four, five are most potent, and even a slight association with any one of the five can awaken dormant love for Krishna. The five are: sādhu-saṅga, nāma-kīrtana, bhāgavata-śravaṇa, mathurā-vāsa, and mūrtira śraddhāya sevana. He gives a very specific definition of sādhu-saṅga. In a general sense, it means associating with devotees, but his exact definition is: sajātīyāśaye snigdhe sādhau saṅga svato vare. Sajātīya means in the same caste or community, in our context, it would mean followers of Srila Prabhupada, and snigdhe means the sadhu should be affectionate to you, and svato vare means the sadhu should be more advanced than you. So, that type of sādhu-saṅga will help you bridge the gap so that you can do what you need to do, should do, and want to do. Another thing Srila Prabhupada said, I am not sure how relevant it is, but he said that good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja, daṇḍavat praṇāma. Just as a volunteer, I am raising some funds. During my meetings with people, we get to meet people who are not at all devotees, having different concepts of devotional practice. Now, in just this verse, we saw that devotional service should start at a young age. It is very difficult for other people to grasp. When we are saying we are working with BMS, making students develop character along with devotion, how can we put it best for these people so that they will understand and ultimately benefit by giving some donation to this cause and help serve?

Giriraj Swami: Are you talking about potential donors?

Devotee: Yes, we are raising funds for this.

Giriraj Swami: Well, we have a noble cause. In the presentation we were shown before we began, we saw the difference between the current trends in material education and what is being done here at BMS. To me, it is a very convincing argument for donations because the students in the regular schools, so to speak, end up by and large developing very bad habits which are destructive and harmful to themselves. So I think it is a very worthy cause for people to donate to. I don’t know if you should show them something like what we saw here, but it is very convincing. They benefit spiritually by this devotional service, so they benefit spiritually by donating.

Devotee: What are the common mistakes parents make, for example, forcing the children, that can be avoided? What are the other things that parents can be followed to make the next generation to take Krishna consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: For one year, we had some children of devotees visiting us at our ashram in California. We asked them, what their parents did or didn’t do that led to their taking up the practice of Krishna consciousness.? There were two of them, and they both said the same thing: their parents themselves did everything. They were perfect examples of devotees, but they didn’t force their children to do anything. The children themselves, by the good example of the parents, took it up. Of course, the parents should be loving and caring to their children. The children shouldn’t feel that Krishna consciousness has made their parents cold or distant. But that is what they said, their parents did everything themselves; they were perfect examples of devotees, but they didn’t force them to do anything.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. Our children, when we associate with children who are not brought up in such a devotional culture, apparently the children outside are much more smart by the modern ways that they have adapted in their life and exposure to media. Our children, when they associate with them, sometimes they have this feeling of not feeling that much confident. So they feel less confident in their company. How can we instill that confidence in our children about their culture and upbringing?

Giriraj Swami: Does that apply especially to children of a certain age group?

Devotee: Teenage and all, that is the time when they become aware of their friends’ surroundings, and that starts impacting them.

Giriraj Swami: So what do they think their friends have or their friends can do that they don’t have, or they can’t do?

Devotee: Because of the movies and other things that we see, outside children. The way they talk, the way they dress, and the attitude that they carry is very much relevant to current times. People actually appreciate such attitude now. It has been appreciated every day, and then our children, because they have grown up in an atmosphere, they do not have that, charisma as such. The so charisma that they can in their personality, and they are more of like, they have these values of accepting their friends and, cooperating with everyone. So, the boys outside, they debate or argue, so sometimes they may feel less confident in their company. The way they talk, the way they dress themselves, and the way they carry themselves.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that probably applies in all contexts. Some people are more confident and self-assured than others. That would be among devotees and also among non-devotees. As far as watching movies, I am thinking of two devotee families who, they would take their children to movies so that they didn’t feel deprived. And then they would discuss the movies with their children from a philosophical point of view. And they felt it is better that they accompany their children to the movies. Otherwise, eventually, the children will go to the movies anyway, somehow or other. So it is better they go with the parents. That way, they don’t have to sneak out. So that is, it is better that it is done in a straightforward way, and it is also good that the parents are there to help them process it through the perspective of Krishna consciousness. It is tricky, but that is what they did, and it made sense to me.

Devotee: Just a continuation of the same question. So, as parents and teachers, how do we know our boundaries? How much exposure should be given and how much should be stop so that we create a balance between the things spiritual.

Giriraj Swami: Other important that the children have devotee friends and peers. I don’t know here. I know in Dallas, the school has field trips where the students go different places and see different things, and that is good. They get exposed, and they learn, but they are with their teachers and classmates who are children of devotees. So they have good association during the experience. So they will have to be exposed to things in the world, and it is good they get the exposure in the association of devotee guardians and friends.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. I just wanted to know that, once the children graduate from school, some of them who don’t want to continue chanting or some of them don’t even want to follow what they learned. So what kind of advice should we give them? We just say it is okay and do what practical? And later on in college life, they don’t want to follow the practices of spiritual chanting or food without onion and garlic?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the real point of no onion and garlic is that we want to eat only kṛṣṇa-prasāda. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says that those who prepare food just for their own body nourishment verily eat only sin, and those who eat food which is the remnants offered in sacrifice, they become liberated from sin. So we don’t take onion and garlic because we can’t offer food to Krishna that has onion or garlic. And somehow, it is important they understand the benefit of taking prasāda and the consequence of eating food which is not offered. It requires good training and education so that they really understand why we do certain things. And if they understand the reason and the benefit, then they can carry it into their lives after they graduate. There may be social pressure after they graduate, but they should be strong enough in their convictions that they don’t succumb to the social pressure when it is contrary to our principles. It is important to maintain principles. It is difficult, but still, if they have a good philosophical understanding of why we do what we do and why we don’t do what we don’t do, they can maintain their principles even after they graduate.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. There is a lot of confusion between parents, and some feel that chocolates that contain caffeine should be eaten, and some say that it should not be eaten. So what should be done because children ask us whether we are supposed to eat it or not? Sorry to ask you such a silly question.

Giriraj Swami: As a rule, we shouldn’t eat it. Once, an officer or someone from the Cadbury Chocolate Company visited our temple in Juhu, and he asked whether we eat chocolate. And we said, well, we don’t really eat chocolate. And he said that is good because chocolate has some addictive properties. So, as a rule, we don’t. But then, one guru told me that someone who was not his disciple asked for his picture, and so that guru asked why he wanted his picture. And he said because my guru doesn’t eat chocolate, but I want to eat chocolate. So I want to have, and I know you do, so I want to have your picture so I can offer the chocolate to you. So then we have carob, which can be a substitute for chocolate.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja, I am serving as a sports instructor. So my question is, how can we give spirituality to our children while taking physical activities because it is fully on body level? And we say that we are not this body; we are soul. So how can we connect and children spiritually?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, we are not the body; we are the soul. But we want to keep the body fit for serving Krishna, and so exercise helps. What do they do? What do you have them do?

Devotee: Yes, mainly I conduct rope mallakhamb and gymnastics.

Giriraj Swami: What was the first thing?

Devotee: Mallakhamb. It is traditional sport of India. The children learn how to perform yoga on a rope at height.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, yes. Well, it comes to keeping the body fit for serving Krishna, and part of it is yoga, so that is good. Yoga is good for health. I think the main point is that we want to keep the body fit for serving Krishna, obviously not for enjoying sense gratification. So those practices are good.

Devotee: Hare Krishna Maharaja. ISKCON is, of course, it takes care of soul and body. The members are evolving their spiritual relationship with Krishna, and sometimes they are, including me, we can’t be the ideal that is represented in the scripture or, what we represent to the children. And sometimes the children see that conflict between what we are saying as a society and what we are doing as a society, especially when they grow up, and it hurts them a lot. So how do we teach them to be realistic and accept, we are on a journey because they like to see that the seniors in the society carry the values that they have spoken about?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, we should practice what we preach. There is a story that, a mother brought her child to Mahatma Gandhi and said, “My child eats too many sweets. Please tell my child not to eat so many sweets.” So Gandhi said, “Come back in a week.” Two weeks so, the mother brought the child back in two weeks, and Gandhi said, “Don’t eat so many sweets.” So the mother said, “Well, why didn’t you tell him when I brought him the first time? Why did you wait for two weeks?” And Gandhi said, “Well, at that time, I was eating sweets myself, so I couldn’t really tell him not to eat sweets. So in these two weeks, I stopped eating sweets, so now I could tell him.” So yes, we have to practice what we preach and exemplify our ideals. If we are sincere, I think that students will see that, even if we are not perfect.

Devotee: Actually, how do we teach them how to be realistic about spiritual life without minimizing what we give them? Sometimes we say, “Okay, you can’t do it in the morning; do it in the afternoon.” Sometimes it feels like a minimization, but sometimes it is just practical, given their situation. They are living outside, especially those who graduate, so sometimes you have to tell them things like that. Is that okay or not okay? We give them the idea, “Okay, you can do this.” Is that okay? Give them the idea that it is best to chant in the morning, but because they have been studying all night and they really can’t do it in the morning—they are sleepy, they have classes to go to.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I usually ask people what time they get up in the morning, which is also related to what time they go to sleep at night. So definitely, it is better if they chant in the morning. But chanting is good anytime; it is better in the morning. So I would ask them, “When do you take rest? When do you get up in the morning?” Encourage them to chant in the morning because not only is the chanting better in the morning generally, but it will help the day go better if they chant in the morning. So it is beneficial both ways.

Devotee: And many of the children, because there are so many things in society are also working on them. Family structures breaking down, working status, the mothers are more outside than at home, and mental well-being is also becoming a very important question. And, so many of the habits that they develop as they grow up are rooted in childhood traumas, different situations that they have been through, their experiences. So, is it all right if we tell them that they can go to counselors to help them sort out their problems instead of just saying, “Chant Krishna"? Is that okay?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, you can. There was one devotee in Juhu during Prabhupada’s time, she became paranoid schizophrenic. Her father was quite a well-placed person, and so he wanted to know if he could get her some medical treatment for her mental disorder. So I asked Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada said that, “Just like you can have a broken arm, but it doesn’t affect your position as a devotee, similarly, you could have a broken mind, so to speak, but it doesn’t necessarily affect your position as a devotee.” He said, “I know the girl, and she is a devotee.” So her father took her for this medical treatment, and it helped her. She was able to function afterwards. Yes, there are fortunately, a number of good devotee counselors and psychiatrists, and I refer devotees to them.

All right, thank you for listening so patiently and attentively and for asking such good, pertinent questions.

Devotee: If you don’t mind, we can have group photography.

Giriraj Swami: Fine.