CC Adi 5.134 – The Glories of Lord Nityananda

Giriraj Swami:

jaya jaya śrī-caitanya jaya nityānanda

jayādvaita-candra jaya gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

So we shall read from Caitanya-caritāmṛta about the glories of Lord Nityananda.

According to Vedic knowledge Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead—Kṛṣṇas tu Bhagavān svayam. And although the Lord is one, He expands Himself into various incarnations. Sri Brahma-saṁhitā gives the example that you may begin with one candle and from the first candle you light a second candle, from the second candle you light a third candle, from the third candle you light a fourth candle. And all are the same, all are of equal candle power. But still there is one original candle. So the original candle or the original Personality of Godhead is Sri Krishna and the first expansion of Krishna is Sri Baladeva.

Lord Krishna appeared 5,000 years ago and spoke Bhagavad-gītā and in Bhagavad-gītā the Lord declared: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja—"Give up all varieties of religiousness, give up all other duties and just surrender unto Me." But people are so fallen that they could not appreciate the transcendental instruction of Lord Krishna. They did not want to surrender. So Krishna came again five hundred years ago as Sri Krishna Chaitanya and as Sri Krishna Chaitanya He did not act as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as Krishna, but He acted as a devotee of Krishna and taught us how to develop love of Krishna. And just as Lord Balarama appeared as Krishna’s older brother in kṛṣṇa-līlā, so He also appeared in the form of Lord Nityananda in caitanya-līlā. Lord Balarama is considered the original spiritual master because He gives us knowledge of Krishna and He shows us the way to serve Krishna. So Nityananda Prabhu is also the original spiritual master because He shows us how to serve Lord Chaitanya and He Himself serves Lord Chaitanya.

So we shall read from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā, Chapter Five.

TEXT 134

Thus Lord Nityānanda has unlimited incarnations.

COMMENT

Because actually he is Balarama and all other incarnations expand from Lord Balarama.

TEXT 134 (continued)

Thus Lord Nityānanda has unlimited incarnations. In transcendental emotion He calls Himself a servant of Lord Caitanya.

TEXT 135

Sometimes He serves Lord Caitanya as His guru, sometimes as His friend and sometimes as His servant, just as Lord Balarāma played with Lord Kṛṣṇa in these three different moods in Vraja.

COMMENT

Vraja is the transcendental abode of Lord Krishna.

TEXT 136–138

Playing like a bull, Lord Balarāma fights with Kṛṣṇa head to head. And sometimes Lord Kṛṣṇa massages the feet of Lord Balarāma.

He considers Himself a servant and knows Kṛṣṇa to be His master. Thus He regards Himself as a fragment of His plenary portion.

“Acting just like ordinary boys, They played like roaring bulls as They fought each other, and They imitated the calls of various animals.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This and the following quotation are from the Bhāgavatam (10.11.40 and 10.15.14).

TEXT 139

“Sometimes when Lord Kṛṣṇa’s elder brother, Lord Balarāma, felt tired after playing and lay His head on the lap of a cowherd boy, Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself served Him by massaging His feet.”

COMMENT

Because Lord Balarama was the older brother of Krishna, Krishna would serve Him. And because Lord Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Balarama would serve Him. Each took pleasure in serving the others. So we also should learn to take pleasure in serving the Lord and the devotees. They were not thinking that They are the Lords. They were thinking They are ordinary cowherd boys or brothers.

TEXT 140

“Who is this mystic power, and where has she come from? Is she a demigod or a demoness? She must be the illusory energy of My master, Lord Kṛṣṇa, for who else can bewilder Me?”

PURPORT

The playful pastimes of the Lord caused suspicion in the mind of Lord Brahmā, and therefore Lord Brahmā, to test Kṛṣṇa’s Lordship, stole all the Lord’s calves and cowherd boys with his own mystic power. Śrī Kṛṣṇa responded, however, by replacing all the calves and boys in the field. Lord Balarāma’s thoughts of astonishment at such wonderful retaliation are recorded in this verse (Bhāg. 10.13.37).

COMMENT

So as we are hearing, Lord Krishna and Balarama played like ordinary cowherd boys in the rural village of Vrindavan and Lord Brahma became astonished by the activities of Lord Krishna and wanted to test Him. One day when Krishna and Balarama and the cowherd boys went into the pasturing grounds with the cows and calves, Lord Brahma, by his mystic power, stole all the cowherd boys and calves. And Lord Krishna thought, If I return to Vrindavan village without the cowherd boys and calves, all the parents of the cowherd boys and the calves will be heartbroken. So I cannot return to Vrindavan without them. So Lord Krishna expanded Himself into a complete duplicate set of cowherd boys and calves. And just like here everyone has his own bodily features, his own way of dressing, his own manner of speaking, his own unique individuality in every respect, so Lord Krishna assumed the form of the different individual cowherd boys and calves to every detail. But Lord Balarama was astonished because generally the residents of Vrindavan had more love for Krishna than they had for their own children which is very unusual. Generally parents love their own children more than anyone else’s children. But the residents of Vrindavan had more love for Krishna than they had even for their own children. But for the one year that Krishna played as the other cowherd boys, they had the same affection for their own children who were actually Krishna, as they had for Krishna Himself. And the cows also had more affection for Krishna than they had for their calves.

So one day the cowherd men were tending the cows on the top of the mountain and below were the calves. The calves are supposed to be kept separate from the cows so that they don’t take all the milk at the wrong time. But when the cows at the top of the hill saw the calves in the valley, they immediately started jumping down the hill, racing down the hill and the cowherd men could not restrain them. They went to their calves, who were actually Krishna and began to feed them. The cowherd men were very baffled and frustrated because their duty was to keep the cows separate from the calves. So they went down the hill in an angry mood to try to get the cows back and when they got to the bottom of the hill they saw their children, who were actually Krishna, and when they saw their children their hearts melted. They began to shed tears and embrace their children and smell their heads.

Lord Balarama was seeing the ecstatic love between the cowherd men and their children and between the cows and their calves and He was wondering what is happening. So He was suspecting that someone was casting some spell on the residents of Vrindavan. He was thinking, “Who could it be? Could it be some demigod, could it be some demon?” And then finally He concluded, “It must be the energy of My master, Lord Krishna.” In other words He accepted Lord Krishna as his master. Here Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami is citing different verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to establish how Lord Balarama served Krishna in different relationships—as a superior, as an older brother, as a friend, as an equal fighting and sporting and as a servant. He saw Krishna as His master.

TEXT 141

“What is the value of a throne to Lord Kṛṣṇa? The masters of the various planetary systems accept the dust of His lotus feet on their crowned heads. That dust makes the holy places sacred, and even Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Lakṣmī and I Myself, who are all portions of His plenary portion, eternally carry that dust on our heads.”

PURPORT

When the Kauravas, to flatter Baladeva so that He would become their ally, spoke ill of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Baladeva became angry and spoke this verse (Bhāg. 10.68.37).

COMMENT

There is another history here but one of Lord Krishna’s grandsons ran away with one of the Kauravas daughters and the Kauravas considered the action of Lord Krishna’s grandson to be an insult. So they wanted to go to war against Lord Krishna and His dynasty and they wanted Lord Balarama to take their side. The Kauravas were ordinary mundane people and they also thought that Krishna and Balarama were the same as them. They tried to use some diplomatic means to get Balarama to take their side. So they began to find fault with Lord Krishna. And people in the material world are full of envy so when they hear another person criticized they usually like it. They enjoy it because they are envious. Even within the same family there is envy, rivalry. Because the Kauravas were so mundane, they thought that Krishna and Balarama must also be mundane like them. So they thought that if they criticize Lord Krishna to Balarama, Balarama will like them, that they like Him better than Krishna. But Balarama is not such a mundane person subject to envy and rivalry. So He defended Lord Krishna and glorified Lord Krishna to them. Now how many of us would do that if someone started criticizing one of our material brothers or material sisters? Would we stand up for our brother or sister or would we keep quiet, thinking, “They wouldn’t like it if I contradict them so better I just be quiet.” Actually as devotees we are not supposed to tolerate blasphemy of other devotees. We are supposed to protest.

TEXT 142

Lord Kṛṣṇa alone is the supreme controller, and all others are His servants. They dance as He makes them do so.

COMMENT

Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya—-’Lord Krishna is the only supreme controller and all others are His servant.’ Even His expansions like Lord Balarama are His servants what to speak of demigods like Brahma, Shiva, Durga, Ganesa, and so on and what to speak of ordinary human beings. We are by nature servants of Krishna and we are meant to serve Him.

TEXT 143–145

Thus Lord Caitanya is also the only controller. All others are His associates or servants.

His elders such as Lord Nityānanda, Advaita Ācārya and Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura, as well as His other devotees — whether His juniors, equals or superiors — are all His associates who help Him in His pastimes. Lord Gaurāṅga fulfills His aims with their help.

COMMENT

So one may be in a position of an elder or an equal or a junior but whatever one’s position is, one is still servant.

TEXT 146

Śrī Advaita Ācārya and Śrīla Nityānanda Prabhu, who are plenary parts of the Lord, are His principal associates. With these two the Lord performs His pastimes in various ways.

COMMENT

So there is one more fact which may be mentioned about Lord Balarama and His service to Krishna or Lord Nityananda and His service to Lord Chaitanya. We have read how Lord Balarama served the Lord in a parental mood as an older brother, in a friendly mood as an equal and as a servant. In the spiritual world there are actually different mellows of service: dāsya-rasa, the mellow of servitorship; sākhya-rasa, the mellow of friendship; vātsalya-rasa, the mellow of parental affection. And there is one more called mādhurya-rasa which is the mellow of conjugal love. Lord Balarama also wanted to serve Lord Krishna in the mellow of conjugal love but how could He do it in a male form? Of course the forms in the spiritual world are not like the forms here where there is a male physical body or a female physical body. All of the forms in the spiritual world are spiritual. But just for spiritual variegatedness in exchange of transcendental mellows there are different forms, which appear to be male, female, younger, older, and so on. So Lord Balarama wanting to serve Lord Krishna in the mood of conjugal love assumed a female form as well, as Ananga Mañjarī who in kṛṣṇa-līlā is the younger sister of Srimati Radharani. And Ananga Mañjarī also appeared in caitanya-līlā to serve Lord Chaitanya in a feminine form. But she is actually an expansion of Balarama.

TEXT 154

Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma present Themselves as younger brother and elder brother, but in the scriptures They are described as the original Supreme Personality of Godhead and His expansion.

TEXT 155

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

TRANSLATION

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who by His various plenary portions appears in the world in different forms and incarnations such as Lord Rāma, but who personally appears in His supreme original form as Lord Kṛṣṇa.”

PURPORT

This is a quotation from Brahma-saṁhitā (5.39).

TEXT 156–158

Lord Caitanya is the same Lord Kṛṣṇa, and Lord Nityānanda is Lord Balarāma. Lord Nityānanda fulfills all of Lord Caitanya’s desires.

The ocean of Lord Nityānanda’s glories is infinite and unfathomable. Only by His mercy can I touch even a drop of it.

Please listen to another glory of His mercy. He made a fallen living entity climb to the highest limit.

COMMENT

This is definitely an exhibition of Lord Nityananda’s mercy if you can take someone who is in a very fallen position and elevate him to a very high position.

TEXT 159–162

To disclose it is not proper, for it should be kept as confidential as the Vedas, yet I shall speak of it to make His mercy known to all.

O Lord Nityānanda, I write of Your mercy out of great exultation. Please forgive me for my offenses.

Lord Nityānanda Prabhu had a servant named Śrī Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa, who was a reservoir of love.

At my house there was saṅkīrtana day and night, and therefore he visited there, having been invited.

COMMENT

This is the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami speaking.

TEXT 163–164

Absorbed in emotional love, he sat in my courtyard, and all the Vaiṣṇavas bowed down at his feet.

In a joyful mood of love of God he sometimes climbed upon the shoulder of someone offering obeisances, and sometimes he struck others with his flute or mildly slapped them.

COMMENT

Internally he was in the mood of a cowherd boy. Because Nityananda Prabhu internally is Lord Balarama who is a cowherd boy. So when the Lord appears all of His associates also appear with Him. Lord Krishna had so many boyfriends and girlfriends in Vrindavan so they also appeared when Lord Krishna came as Lord Chaitanya. Similarly, Lord Balarama has so many of His cowherd boyfriends who appeared as devotees when He appeared as Lord Nityananda as a devotee Himself. So sometimes their internal moods would come out. Generally they would keep their internal mood concealed but here Minaketana Ramadasa, in his ecstasy of love of Godhead, would sometimes jump on the shoulders of people who were offering obeisances to him because he was in the mood of cowherd friendship.

TEXT 165

When someone saw the eyes of Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa, tears would automatically flow from his own eyes, for a constant shower of tears flowed from the eyes of Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa.

COMMENT

Tears of love, tears of ecstasy.

TEXT 166–171

Sometimes there were eruptions of ecstasy like kadamba flowers on some parts of his body, and sometimes one limb would be stunned while another would be trembling.

Whenever he shouted aloud the name Nityānanda, the people around him were filled with great wonder and astonishment.

One respectable brāhmaṇa named Śrī Guṇārṇava Miśra was serving the Deity.

When Mīnaketana was seated in the yard, this brāhmaṇa did not offer him respect. Seeing this, Śrī Rāmadāsa became angry and spoke.

“Here I find the second Romaharṣaṇa-sūta, who did not stand to show honor when he saw Lord Balarāma.”

After saying this, he danced and sang to his heart’s content, but the brāhmaṇa did not become angry, for he was then serving Lord Kṛṣṇa.

COMMENT

It is a regulative principle that one who is engaged in the service of the Deity should not become angry.

PURPORT

Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa was a great devotee of Lord Nityānanda. When he entered the house of Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, Guṇārṇava Miśra, the priest who was worshiping the Deity installed in the house, did not receive him very well. A similar event occurred when Romaharṣaṇa-sūta was speaking to the great assembly of sages at Naimiṣāraṇya. Lord Baladeva entered that great assembly, but since Romaharṣaṇa-sūta was on the vyāsāsana, he did not get down to offer respect to Lord Baladeva. The behavior of Guṇārṇava Miśra indicated that he had no great respect for Lord Nityānanda, and this idea was not at all palatable to Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa. For this reason the mentality of Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa is never deprecated by devotees.

COMMENT

Here is a very interesting point. When Lord Balarama entered the assembly of sages in Naimiṣaraṇya, Romaharsana-suta who was on the vyāsāsana did not offer respect although everyone else in the audience did. But he became proud that “I am sitting on the vyāsāsana so I don’t have to show respect to anyone, not even Balarama.” Ultimately Romaharsana-suta was killed for his offense. Now here we find that Gunarnava Misra failed to offer respect to Minaketana Ramadasa and Minaketana Ramadasa became angry and chastised him. We hear that devotees are very meek and humble and they do not take offense personally. Yes, if there is an offense against the Lord or devotee, he becomes angry but for himself he is always meek and humble and tolerant. So why did Minaketana Ramadasa become angry? Why was he not meek and humble and tolerant as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu advises: tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Srila Prabhupada explains that Minaketana Ramadasa was known as a servant of Lord Nityananda. Therefore not to offer respect to Minaketana Ramadasa really meant lack of respect for Lord Nityananda. Minaketana Ramadasa was certainly not on the bodily platform. He has no interest in mundane adoration. But he understood that Gunarnava Misra had some lack of respect for Lord Nityananda and because of his lack of respect for Lord Nityananda, he failed to offer respect to Minaketana Ramadasa. Therefore Minaketana Ramadasa became angry, not for his own sake but because of his love for Lord Nityananda.

’For this reason the mentality of Minaketana Ramadasa is never deprecated by devotees,’ because he was not becoming angry because of false pride or false ego. He was becoming angry because Gunarnava Misra did not have respect for Lord Nityananda.

TEXT 172–174

At the end of the festival Mīnaketana Rāmadāsa went away, offering his blessings to everyone. At that time he had some controversy with my brother.

My brother had firm faith in Lord Caitanya but only a dim glimmer of faith in Lord Nityānanda.

Knowing this, Śrī Rāmadāsa felt unhappy in his mind. I then rebuked my brother.

COMMENT

When Krishna and Balarama appeared, They appeared like ordinary human beings. Similarly, Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda appeared like ordinary human beings. So when we read about Them in the scriptures we know that They are the original Personality of Godhead and the first expansion but if you saw Them face to face you could not tell that They have spiritual bodies and not material bodies. You cannot tell anything. So we should not be surprised if someone cannot realize that Nityananda Prabhu is the Personality of Godhead. But the devotees know because they are pure at heart and they know within their hearts and from scripture. From sadhu, shastra, and guru, they know.

’I then rebuked my brother.’ Who is speaking?

Devotees: Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

TEXT 175–176

“These two brothers,” I told him, “are like one body; They are identical manifestations. If you do not believe in Lord Nityānanda, you will fall down.

“If you have faith in one but disrespect the other, your logic is like the logic of accepting half a hen..

COMMENT

Do you know the logic of accepting half a hen?

Devotees: [inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: The farmer has a hen that lays eggs. So the farmer thinks that the neck portion is very troublesome because it just takes food and the hind portion is very valuable because it gives eggs. So he decided to cut the hen at the neck and of course the hen died and the eggs were stopped. So half hen philosophy means you accept the part you like and you reject the part you don’t like but actually in the process you lose everything.

So that is what Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami told his brother, “You might think that by accepting Lord Chaitanya you are pleasing Him, even while rejecting Lord Nityananda but They are both the same. You cannot take half and not the other.”

TEXT 177–178

“It would be better to be an atheist by slighting both brothers than a hypocrite by believing in one and slighting the other.”

Thus Śrī Rāmadāsa broke his flute in anger and went away, and at that time my brother fell down.

COMMENT

You see the effects of offense. Perhaps he fell down more because Minaketana Ramadasa felt offended than Nityananda Prabhu Himself. In any case because of his offense he fell down.

TEXT 179

I have thus described the power of the servants of Lord Nityānanda.

COMMENT

In other words if the servant is very powerful what does it say about the master? It means that the master is extraordinarily powerful. So just by Gunarnava Misra offending Minaketana Ramadasa he fell down. So that is the power of Lord Nityananda, that anyone who offends His servant will fall down.

TEXT 180

That night Lord Nityānanda appeared to me in a dream because of my good quality in chastising my brother.

COMMENT

Because his brother was offensive, so Krishnadasa Kaviraja’s duty was to chastise him. And because he did his duty in chastising even though he was his own brother, Lord Nityananda was pleased to appear in his dream. So there is a description of the beauty of Lord Nityananda and His associates who appeared in the dream but because we are under the time factor we will not read the whole description.

TEXT 193–197

Thus I saw such opulence in Lord Nityānanda Svarūpa. His wonderful form, qualities and pastimes are all transcendental.

I was overwhelmed with transcendental ecstasy, not knowing anything else. Then Lord Nityānanda smiled and spoke to me as follows.

“O my dear Kṛṣṇadāsa, do not be afraid. Go to Vṛndāvana, for there you will attain all things.”

After saying this, He directed me toward Vṛndāvana by waving His hand. Then He disappeared with His associates.

I fainted and fell to the ground, my dream broke, and when I regained consciousness I saw that morning had come.

COMMENT

He was sleeping so why does he say that he fainted and fell to the ground? In the dream he fainted and fell to the ground and that made him wake up or come out of his internal state of consciousness.

TEXT 198–202

I thought about what I had seen and heard and concluded that the Lord had ordered me to proceed to Vṛndāvana at once.

That very second I started for Vṛndāvana, and by His mercy I reached there in great happiness.

All glory, all glory to Lord Nityānanda Balarāma, by whose mercy I have attained shelter in the transcendental abode of Vṛndāvana!

All glory, all glory to the merciful Lord Nityānanda, by whose mercy I have attained shelter at the lotus feet of Śrī Rūpa and Śrī Sanātana!

By His mercy I have attained the shelter of the great personality Śrī Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, and by His mercy I have found the refuge of Śrī Svarūpa Dāmodara.

PURPORT

Anyone desiring to become expert in the service of Śrī Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa should always aspire to be under the guidance of Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. To come under the protection of the Gosvāmīs, one must get the mercy and grace of Nityānanda Prabhu. The author has tried to explain this fact in these two verses.

COMMENT

Srila Prabhupada explains that Vrindavan means the six Gosvamis because by the mercy of the six Gosvamis one can understand the pastimes of Radha and Krishna and learn how to engage in the service of Radha and Krishna. To be able to go to Vrindavan and attain the shelter of the Gosvamis requires the mercy of Lord Nityananda. In one lecture in Los Angeles Srila Prabhupada said that in order to approach Radha and Krishna we need the mercy of Lord Chaitanya. In order to get the mercy of Lord Chaitanya we need the mercy of Lord Nityananda. And in order to get the mercy of Lord Nityananda we have to approach people like Jagai and Madhai who are very sinful, fallen souls. So in other words, by working to spread Krishna consciousness among the fallen souls in the modern age, you can get the mercy of Lord Nityananda and by His mercy you approach Lord Chaitanya and the service of Radha and Krishna.

Hare Krishna.

Devotee: If devotional service in Krishna consciousness, spiritual realization, transcendental happiness; all these things are transcendental to the material world and they are given to us like gifts from the spiritual master, from Krishna (this mercy), and if sinful activity is only within the material world, then how is it that sinful activity can check spiritual realization? How is it that if one commit sins that they are stopped from getting spiritual realization? There seems that there should not be any connection between the two. Just like if the material is body sick you still can be spiritual or if you are ugly or if you are mental, whatever, still spiritual realization, transcendental happiness is there. So why is sinful activity able to stop this?

Answer: Well there are different processes of perfection. One is called sadhana-siddhi. By one’s strict execution of devotional service in the association of devotees, one attains perfection. And Lord Krishna says, yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ, that only when one is freed from sinful activities can he engage in devotional service. But the other process is called kṛpā-siddha which means that one attains perfection by the mercy of the Lord or some powerful devotee of the Lord. So even if someone is sinful but if he renders some extraordinary service he can achieve perfection by the mercy of the superior even if his habits are not completely purified. But perfection by mercy is rare. Generally devotees attain perfection by spiritual practice. And Srila Prabhupada gives the example that generally if someone wants to get a degree from an university, he has to enter the university and take the courses and pass the exam. But sometimes someone who is very extraordinary will get an honorary degree. Similarly, if we want to attain perfection in Krishna consciousness we have to follow the regular process which means we have to give up sinful activities. We can’t think that we are going to be the person who does such extraordinary service that we will attain perfection just by mercy.

Question: You were speaking about Ananga Mañjarī—Lord Balarama being Ananga Mañjarī. And you were also speaking about Minaketana Ramadasa being one of Balarama’s gopals. It reminded me of a question I have had for some time but I haven’t asked it. I wanted to ask it to someone whom I have faith in that they can give a nice answer. I thought I haven’t seen such an exalted personality for some time so I was hoping if you could answer for me.

We hear from the shastra that when a Vaishnava worships Lord Chaitanya and Radha-Krishna that he simultaneously takes birth in Gaura-mandala and also in Mathura-mandala and he gets a body in which he is able to service in kṛṣṇa-līlā and also in gaura-līlā. Scriptures have been written to tell who the personalities in gaura-līlā are who are in kṛṣṇa-līlā and what the connection is between them. Now when you go down from the time of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s direct associates through our paramparā—Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami—down the list, it is only mentioned who they are in kṛṣṇa-līlā. For the original associates of Lord Chaitanya that makes sense because they were who they are in caitanya-līlā. Rupa Gosvami is Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami is Sanatana Gosvami. As our paramparā moves further down—Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Baladeva Vidyabhusana-so many people are there, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. It is only mentioned to us who they are in kṛṣṇa-līlā, which would indicate that this is gaura-līlā. They are taking birth in this world as Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Siddhanta Sarasvati or Srila Prabhupada. But then that seems contradictory when we have the statement from the shastra that you worship to go back to take a role in gaura-līlā which would be in Nadia which would not be so much later on. It is a paradox and I cannot understand. I am hoping that maybe you can explain it to me.

Giriraj Swami: The devotees who took birth in cowherd families in kṛṣṇa-līlā took birth mostly in brahman families in gaura-līlā. Now the form that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has or Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura or Srila Prabhupada have is the form of a devotee in gaura-līlā just like Lord Chaitanya was surrounded by sannyasis or Krishna was surrounded by cowherds. So Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura is in the form of a sannyasi and he engages in the same activities as the associates of Lord Chaitanya in the propagation of saṅkīrtana. So what you said is true, this is gaura-līlā.

When Srila Prabhupada acquired the land in Mayapur, some devotees lamented that we did not get land at the birthplace of Lord Chaitanya. And Srila Prabhupada replied that Lord Chaitanya is not famous for His birth but for His activities. The activities are more important than the birth. So at the ISKCON land we are engaging in the activities of gaura-līlā and the activities of gaura-līlā are more important than the birth. That was Srila Prabhupada’s answer. That is the answer, that the forms that we have in the saṅkīrtana movement are suitable for gaura-līlā. There are old people in gaura-līlā, young people, men, women, and so on. Why do we even need to know who somebody is in kṛṣṇa-līlā or gaura-līlā? It is for meditation. Yes, we need to know for kṛṣṇa-līlā for meditation but we don’t need to know any other form for meditation in gaura-līlā because the same form is appropriate for meditation. We don’t need to know who they are.

Devotee: My question is not that complicated. Mine is simple. I guess everyone already knows the answer but I would just like to hear. From today’s discussion we see in the transcendental world there is no bodily relation. You explained very well the relationship of Lord Nityananda and Lord Balarama, the Personality of Godhead, and as you say there is no material body, there is no male or female in the transcendental world. So how do you explain the relationship of Radharani with the Personality of Godhead in that respect?

Giriraj Swami: That is a simple question that requires a long answer. There are no material male and female bodies like we have here. They are all spiritual forms. And there is no material sex desire like we have here. We should just consider that the spiritual world is the original and the material world is the perverted reflection. So whatever exists in the material world in a perverted form exists originally in the spiritual world in a pure form. Just as there is attraction between male and female in the material world, so there is also attraction between male and female in the spiritual world. And the original attraction is the attraction between Radha and Krishna. But in the spiritual world the attraction is based on love which is the desire to please the beloved whereas in the material world the attraction is based on lust which is the desire to gratify one’s own senses. So therefore it is perverted. Radharani goes to Krishna to please Krishna. Krishna goes to Radharani to please Radharani. In the material world the man goes after a woman to gratify his own senses and the woman goes after a man to gratify her own senses. So it is a perverted reflection. But if it didn’t exist originally in the spiritual world, how could it exist in the material world?

Devotee: That explains that a husband and wife cannot compare with Radha and Krishna.

Girirja Swami: Very true. Thank you.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!
Nityananda Prabhu ki jaya!
Gaura-bhakta-vrnda ki jaya!